cycle support doesnt get along with ATD?
- 04-10-2008, 11:22 AM
cycle support doesnt get along with ATD?
i have been doing alittle research and came across some info saying most of the ingredients in cycle support are actually strengthened in their effects by ATD supplementation. even to a dangerous point. and well, i have a bottle of sus 500 so you can see my dilemma. i was wondering if anyone else has had any experience with this. and another question is if i have water retention, could i use my SAN attitude on cycle to take care of that? or would i have to pulse it with cycle support? appreciate it yall
- 04-10-2008, 12:09 PM
- 04-10-2008, 12:16 PM
04-10-2008, 06:30 PM
I heard that back in grammar school there was an incidence of them fighting over lunch money but that was about it lol
Actually haven't heard anything like this.
Can you link us please?
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HGH/sleep enhancer: HGHpro
Test Booster: TestoPRO and STOKED!
Preworkout: MANIAC Fruit Punch and Pink Lemonade
04-14-2008, 01:15 PM
POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECTS / INTERACTIONS: AT/ATD are strong cytochrome P450 3A4 inhibitors (Ki values < 0.2 microM via in vitro human microsome studies). 3A4 is the workhorse of the P450 system. It accounts for 30% of P450 activity in the liver and 75% of the P450 activity in the small intestine (wait a minute ? this is where ATD-type supplements are absorbed). Because so much P450 activity is due to 3A4, it comes as no surprise that 3A4 performs the bulk of oxidative drug metabolism in humans. This makes 3A4 arguably the most important human P450 enzyme to understand. Until the mid-1990?s, the literature included references to 3A3or 3A3/4. It is now understood, however, that 3A3 is not a separate P450 enzyme but a transcript variant of 3A4. Subsequently, the list of drugs and supplements that are metabolized by 34A IS CONSTANTLY GROWING! 3A4 being a high-capacity/low-affinity enzyme if inhibited means you get spill-over of the drugs to the low-capacity/high-affinity subset [namely in the enterocytes of the gut (recalling the high percentage of 3A4 activity in the gut): 2D6, 2C9, and 2C19]. In English, this means you have the potential for immense toxicity in other drugs metabolized by this cytochrome enzyme.
I will center our discussion here on the supplements that have inhibited metabolism when concurrently used with AT/ATD preached about as classic adjuncts during PCT. In the late 1990s, several 3A4-related casualties occurred, and the drugs were removed from the US market by manufacturers. These cases are reminders of the potentially serious nature of 3A4 inhibition.
INTERACTION #1: Red Yeast Rice (RYR) ? a classically-described HMG Co-A reductase inhibitor and also anti-inflammatory and down-regulator of LDL receptors has the potential to cause Rhabdomyolysis (see my For the Love of Science and Medicine, Part II article for some clinical studies for evaluation) and extreme hepatotoxicity. I have already stated in Part II and previous articles/posts that RYR has absolutely NO business in a PCT regime following a C17 alkylated PH/PS/AAS. RYR coupled with either of the 3A4 inhibitors AT/ATD potentiates the aforementioned effects, so I amplify my response to the nth degree and ask with use of AT/ATD-containing products, you fully omit this item.
INTERACTION #2: Hawthorn Berry ? a classically-described blood pressure modifying agent and this is attributed to its calcium and beta-blockades as well as its ACE inhibition and diuretic action. This rather safe supplement on its own with a great track record becomes a different animal when combined with 3A4 inhibitors. It can actually drop your blood pressure to a level that would in itself be dangerous. The key here is that if you opt to throw this compound in solely at the time of cessation of PH/PS/AAS that may have elevated your blood pressure ? a decline of more than 25% at such a rapid rate can be deadly!
INTERACTION #3: Any sympathomimetic agent. While better avoided in the first place during PCT, people have considered certain agents that act through various andrenergic grounds and they too become MORE potent with AT/ATD.
CAUTION: Nolvadex, a commonly-puported ?must-have? by many authorities during PCT. This is an obvious display of their ignorance and blatant disregard for drug-drug interaction as Nolvadex (discussed at greater length in part IV) is metabolized through the 3A4. Now, in addition to people starting at dosing parameters as high as 40mg (which is a highly unnecessary dose even for the heaviest of cycles) with a 7-day half-life, you have increasing toxic levels in addition to what you have already put together. Retinopathy or liver toxicity anyone?
I don't get it... The author states that it increases free and total test and consequently suppress the HPTA.. But following that line, Tribulus is also not recommended, because it rises LH levels, thus testosterone levels, and that extra testosterone suppress HPTA.
ok so here is also a link to the page i got this from so you can read the discussion as far as my current knowledge goes, this is all way over my head which is why im asking yall. heres the link http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6454801
04-14-2008, 03:31 PM
Those are some interesting things mentioned by Dinoii (author of above article). This is way above my head and is better off discussed between Dinoii and those in the know.
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