[carcinogen]

Originally Posted by TINYTOAD

Along the same lines...

Why is it okay to get botox injections to paralyze facial muscles, reducing wrinkles and extending the careers of people want to look younger?
Why is it a crime to take hormones to increase strength and stamina, to extend the careers of people who need to perform physically?

Remember these names:
Mr. Biden, Mr. Hatch, Mr. Grassley, Mr. Harkin, Mr. Stevens, Mr. McCain, Mr. Nelson of Florida, Mrs. Feinstein, Mr. Allen, and Ms. Murkowski?
Don't vote for them, and tell your friends.

-Tinytoad

You forgot **** Durbin of IL

[BKneller]

One last thing.

You can't legislate morality and ethics because they are inherently
subjective.

Prohibition failed because of this. Do you think people did not
drink even though it was illegal?

People smoke marijuana, snort cocaine and drop ecstasy and all of
these are illegal.

The fact that a possible prison sentence is associated with their
use and possession does not seem to really a factor in someone's choice
to use. Because use is pandemic. I am not saying it is right. I am not passing
judgement either way. I am just saying, "it is what it is".

We (some of us in the supplement industry) wanted and still want
to offer consenting, intelligent make adults who are educated
on the topic, the chance to purchase and use products that are
legal and made in a controlled, GMP driven, facility instead of
some illegal schedule C-III black market underground lab "broth"
distilled in someone sink or bath tub.

As long as the public demands 330 pound offensive linemen, baseball
players who hit 50+ HR's and 160 RBI's per year...year after year...
pitchers who consistently throw 95+ MPH sliders and track stars who
can run the 100m in the low 9.9's, high 9.8's (or faster even!) there are
going to be performance enhancers used in sports. I mean, why not just ban
'cleats' for track and field or baseball. Aren't they a form of cheating?
Or aluminum and ceramic bats in college baseball? How about access to
safe and good food? I mean, if an athlete in a third world country doesn't
have access to unlimited, delicious, nutritious food then those who live in
the West have an "unfair advantage" correct? Slippery slope time, guys...

When the media sensationalizes stuff like this, not to report news
but to write "for the sake of the story itself" this does a huge
disservice to the liberty and freedoms of all of us.

The Washington Post hits the desks of every Congressman
every morning. There will be a backlash and for sure more of
these products will be banned.

But the legislation does nothing to address demand...only supply (legal supply
that is).

So what happens is these hatchet job articles serve as fodder for
self-centered Congressmen who are more concerned about looking good in
the media spotlight so they can get re-elected than what is truly "good"
for the American public as a whole.

What happens is you're creating something that is not needed - more criminals.
You're making the 33 year old guy who is married with two kids, making $60K per year
who wants a "little edge" or is 'feeling a little old' into a felon.

And for what good and what purpose?

The comments about the supplement industry eating itself are 100% dead on correct.
I have tried very hard to establish alliances with companies looking to make this
industry a better and more positive place. It is unfortunate that others view this
industry as "all or nothing" (meaning they have control over all of it or there will
be no industry to say of). It's sad that some are THAT selfish. We do eat are own
young. We are our worst enemy.

I'll leave it at that. I think ALR decided to hold his tongue until Ms. Shipley decides to post here
and I am going to follow suit from here after.


BK

Originally Posted by carcinogen

You forgot **** Durbin of IL

[SanSon]

Originally Posted by BKneller

One last thing.

You can't legislate morality and ethics because they are inherently
subjective.

Prohibition failed because of this. Do you think people did not
drink even though it was illegal?

People smoke marijuana, snort cocaine and drop ecstasy and all of
these are illegal.

The fact that a possible prison sentence is associated with their
use and possession does not seem to really a factor in someone's choice
to use. Because use is pandemic. I am not saying it is right. I am not passing
judgement either way. I am just saying, "it is what it is".

We (some of us in the supplement industry) wanted and still want
to offer consenting, intelligent make adults who are educated
on the topic, the chance to purchase and use products that are
legal and made in a controlled, GMP driven, facility instead of
some illegal schedule C-III black market underground lab "broth"
distilled in someone sink or bath tub.

As long as the public demands 330 pound offensive linemen, baseball
players who hit 50+ HR's and 160 RBI's per year...year after year...
pitchers who consistently throw 95+ MPH sliders and track stars who
can run the 100m in the low 9.9's, high 9.8's (or faster even!) there are
going to be performance enhancers used in sports. I mean, why not just ban
'cleats' for track and field or baseball. Aren't they a form of cheating?
Or aluminum and ceramic bats in college baseball? How about access to
safe and good food? I mean, if an athlete in a third world country doesn't
have access to unlimited, delicious, nutritious food then those who live in
the West have an "unfair advantage" correct? Slippery slope time, guys...

When the media sensationalizes stuff like this, not to report news
but to write "for the sake of the story itself" this does a huge
disservice to the liberty and freedoms of all of us.

The Washington Post hits the desks of every Congressman
every morning. There will be a backlash and for sure more of
these products will be banned.

But the legislation does nothing to address demand...only supply (legal supply
that is).

So what happens is these hatchet job articles serve as fodder for
self-centered Congressmen who are more concerned about looking good in
the media spotlight so they can get re-elected than what is truly "good"
for the American public as a whole.

What happens is you're creating something that is not needed - more criminals.
You're making the 33 year old guy who is married with two kids, making $60K per year
who wants a "little edge" or is 'feeling a little old' into a felon.

And for what good and what purpose?

The comments about the supplement industry eating itself are 100% dead on correct.
I have tried very hard to establish alliances with companies looking to make this
industry a better and more positive place. It is unfortunate that others view this
industry as "all or nothing" (meaning they have control over all of it or there will
be no industry to say of). It's sad that some are THAT selfish. We do eat are own
young. We are our worst enemy.

I'll leave it at that. I think ALR decided to hold his tongue until Ms. Shipley decides to post here
and I am going to follow suit from here after.


BK

GREAT post BK, great post!

[wastedwhiteboy2]

So compromise and let them make it illegal for anyone under 18 or 21 to buy hormonal supplements instead of making them illegal for adults.

and we do need more of a voice in politics.

[chaz92398]

Originally Posted by SanSon

GREAT post BK, great post!

Agreed. Stated very well.

[kwyckemynd00]

BK, great post!

WWB, isn't it funny how it would really be that simple to "protect the children"? Make a law where you have to be 21 to use steroids. Simple! Nope...instead, we need drama. Drama makes heros and heroes get votes, raises and promotions....*sigh* Sheeple, sheeple, sheeple.....

And, I REALLY dont' believe Ms. Shipley will bother to respond in here. She knows she wont get what she wants.

[Iron Warrior]

Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2

So compromise and let them make it illegal for anyone under 18 or 21 to buy hormonal supplements instead of making them illegal for adults.

and we do need more of a voice in politics.

This would definitely be the responsible thing to do. But it makes too much sense so politicians will throw it out the window

[DR.D]

Originally Posted by Iron Warrior

This would definitely be the responsible thing to do. But it makes too much sense so politicians will throw it out the window

Well, they can tax the **** out of booze and cig's so they "play the green" on those, but they don't get a cut on the PH's. It's all about the green in the end on every choice they make. We need to form a strong dietary/supp lobby and make more donations!!!

[firecross]

Mr. Biden, Mr. Hatch, Mr. Grassley, Mr. Harkin, Mr. Stevens, Mr. McCain, Mr. Nelson of Florida, Mrs. Feinstein, Mr. Allen, and Ms. Murkowski...

You forgot **** Durbin of IL

Let's pick the most offensive of these clowns and put some money behind an effort to knock him out of office next election. If they insist on pursuing irrational aims then they need to be removed from office and used as a warning to others promoting causes that get media hype but are not based in good public policy or reality.

[TINYTOAD]

Remember this BS from USASwimming.org?

"As most of you are aware, Kicker Vencill tested positive for 19-Norandrolone. He was able to show that his multivitamin was tainted but the rules state that you alone are responsible for what you choose to consume, and Kicker was suspended for two years. He was removed from the Pan American Games team last summer and will not be able to compete at Olympic Trials. He is asking you to join him in making a change to the supplement industry that cost him everything he had worked so hard for.

Congress wants to make a difference and so should we as athletes. If changes never occur, our health, our reputation, and our careers could be at a potential risk. My career was ended all because of a contaminated multi vitamin containing steroid precursors. I'm not asking for your sympathy, but I am asking for your support in the fight to get steroid precursors pulled off of the supplement market. Whether or not you choose to take supplements, it is important that we work together to help prevent false positives. Nothing will ever change if we choose not to take a stand. Read below and see how you can make a difference in the legislation against steroid precursors. Kicker Vencill


USA Swimming is a member of CASPER (the Coalition for Anabolic Steroid Precursor and Ephedra Regulation). We are asking you to write a message to your congressmen and women encouraging them to support the following bill: <snip>

It’s very easy to cut and paste the sample letter below and send an email. Be sure you include a statement about why this is important to you. Your health, your sport, and your reputation are at risk due to a loosely regulated supplement industry. We want these representatives to know you feel strongly about this and that athletes (including you, your teammates and friends) are being affected by this daily. Send this on to family and friends and teammates and encourage them to send an email. We can make a change!

(USADA indicates the following: “The easiest and most cost-effective method to get the letter to the respective Congressional or Senate representative is via email. Go to http://www.house.gov/writerep/ (Congress) or http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm (Senate). It is recommended that you email the representative from your state. The web site provides ability to search by zip code for Congress representatives. Please change the letter somewhat. This will increase the impact of the letters as opposed to the same letter being received numerous times. Also include a message about your USA Swimming membership and CASPER�. )

Letter for S.2195 (Support for Legislation in U.S. Senate)

The Honorable «Name»
«Title»
United States Senate
«Street_Address»
«City», «State» «Zip»

Dear Senator «Last_Name»:

I am writing concerning, S. 2195, the "Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004," which is co-sponsored by Senators Mr. Biden (For Himself, Mr. Hatch, Mr. Grassley, Mr. Harkin, Mr. Stevens, Mr. McCain, Mr. Nelson, Mrs. Feinstein, Mr. Allen, and Ms. Murkowski).

I urge you to support this legislation, because I am extremely concerned about the availability and increasing use of anabolic steroid precursors in the United States. Thousands of over-the-counter products containing steroid precursors that metabolize in the body into anabolic steroids are being sold as "safe" steroid equivalents. Currently, there is no requirement for manufacturers to conduct safety studies prior to, or after, releasing these steroid precursor products. However, because these products are metabolized by the body into anabolic steroids, the side-effects are thought to be the same as the side-effects resulting from steroid use, including the masculinization of women, potential for growth termination in adolescents, cardiovascular damage, liver damage and damage to reproductive organs.

I support S. 2195, which would amend the Controlled Substances Act to clarify the definition of anabolic steroids and to provide for research and education activities relating to steroids and steroid precursors.

Sincerely,

Fred Nerk

[jonny21]

Originally Posted by DR.D

Well, they can tax the **** out of booze and cig's so they "play the green" on those, but they don't get a cut on the PH's. It's all about the green in the end on every choice they make. We need to form a strong dietary/supp lobby and make more donations!!!

Hit the Nail on head

[ericnb_98]

[quote=BKneller]


Good Post

[Dungeon1]

Politics is everything that is wrong with our government.

[Iron Warrior]

Originally Posted by DR.D

Well, they can tax the **** out of booze and cig's so they "play the green" on those, but they don't get a cut on the PH's. It's all about the green in the end on every choice they make. We need to form a strong dietary/supp lobby and make more donations!!!

Sad but true Doc

[kwyckemynd00]

[quote=TINYTOAD]Remember this BS from USASwimming.org?

"As most of you are aware, Kicker Vencill tested positive for 19-Norandrolone. He was able to show that his multivitamin was tainted but the rules state that you alone are responsible for what you choose to consume, and Kicker was suspended for two years. He was removed from the Pan American Games team last summer and will not be able to compete at Olympic Trials. He is asking you to join him in making a change to the supplement industry that cost him everything he had worked so hard for.

Congress wants to make a difference and so should we as athletes. If changes never occur, our health, our reputation, and our careers could be at a potential risk. My career was ended all because of a contaminated multi vitamin containing steroid precursors. I'm not asking for your sympathy, but I am asking for your support in the fight to get steroid precursors pulled off of the supplement market. Whether or not you choose to take supplements, it is important that we work together to help prevent false positives. Nothing will ever change if we choose not to take a stand. Read below and see how you can make a difference in the legislation against steroid precursors. Kicker Vencill
[/QUOTE]

Ohhh...I remember that lying prick.

Claiming that orally ingesting nandrolone undec. in a small enough amount to be nothing mor than a 'contamination' caused him to have levels 200% above normal....what BS. Absolutely impossible...another example of how 'ignorance' is being used in the war against sports supplements.

Not only that, but the jury gave the suit to him, regardless of the fact that the company in questiosn multis and PHs are / were made at two different facilities and lab results showed the multi was clean.

[DAdams91982]

Originally Posted by DR.D

Well, they can tax the **** out of booze and cig's so they "play the green" on those, but they don't get a cut on the PH's. It's all about the green in the end on every choice they make. We need to form a strong dietary/supp lobby and make more donations!!!

Another donation button???

Adams