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08-08-2005, 08:10 AM
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| Registered User | Quote:
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08-08-2005, 08:57 AM
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| Banned | One last thing. You can't legislate morality and ethics because they are inherently subjective. Prohibition failed because of this. Do you think people did not drink even though it was illegal? People smoke marijuana, snort cocaine and drop ecstasy and all of these are illegal. The fact that a possible prison sentence is associated with their use and possession does not seem to really a factor in someone's choice to use. Because use is pandemic. I am not saying it is right. I am not passing judgement either way. I am just saying, "it is what it is". We (some of us in the supplement industry) wanted and still want to offer consenting, intelligent make adults who are educated on the topic, the chance to purchase and use products that are legal and made in a controlled, GMP driven, facility instead of some illegal schedule C-III black market underground lab "broth" distilled in someone sink or bath tub. As long as the public demands 330 pound offensive linemen, baseball players who hit 50+ HR's and 160 RBI's per year...year after year... pitchers who consistently throw 95+ MPH sliders and track stars who can run the 100m in the low 9.9's, high 9.8's (or faster even!) there are going to be performance enhancers used in sports. I mean, why not just ban 'cleats' for track and field or baseball. Aren't they a form of cheating? Or aluminum and ceramic bats in college baseball? How about access to safe and good food? I mean, if an athlete in a third world country doesn't have access to unlimited, delicious, nutritious food then those who live in the West have an "unfair advantage" correct? Slippery slope time, guys... When the media sensationalizes stuff like this, not to report news but to write "for the sake of the story itself" this does a huge disservice to the liberty and freedoms of all of us. The Washington Post hits the desks of every Congressman every morning. There will be a backlash and for sure more of these products will be banned. But the legislation does nothing to address demand...only supply (legal supply that is). So what happens is these hatchet job articles serve as fodder for self-centered Congressmen who are more concerned about looking good in the media spotlight so they can get re-elected than what is truly "good" for the American public as a whole. What happens is you're creating something that is not needed - more criminals. You're making the 33 year old guy who is married with two kids, making $60K per year who wants a "little edge" or is 'feeling a little old' into a felon. And for what good and what purpose? The comments about the supplement industry eating itself are 100% dead on correct. I have tried very hard to establish alliances with companies looking to make this industry a better and more positive place. It is unfortunate that others view this industry as "all or nothing" (meaning they have control over all of it or there will be no industry to say of). It's sad that some are THAT selfish. We do eat are own young. We are our worst enemy. I'll leave it at that. I think ALR decided to hold his tongue until Ms. Shipley decides to post here and I am going to follow suit from here after. BK Quote:
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08-08-2005, 11:59 AM
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| Registered User |  Quote:
GREAT post BK, great post! | |
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08-08-2005, 01:21 PM
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| Board Supporter  Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: USA Age: 35
Posts: 2,430
| So compromise and let them make it illegal for anyone under 18 or 21 to buy hormonal supplements instead of making them illegal for adults. and we do need more of a voice in politics. 6' 195 lbs. 32" waist 16 inch arms. |
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08-08-2005, 01:30 PM
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| Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Las Vegas Age: 31
Posts: 75
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08-08-2005, 05:58 PM
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| My P3N1Z is chafed.  Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Marklar Age: 26
Posts: 5,306
| BK, great post! WWB, isn't it funny how it would really be that simple to "protect the children"? Make a law where you have to be 21 to use steroids. Simple! Nope...instead, we need drama. Drama makes heros and heroes get votes, raises and promotions....*sigh* Sheeple, sheeple, sheeple..... And, I REALLY dont' believe Ms. Shipley will bother to respond in here. She knows she wont get what she wants. -“Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either.”-Albert Einstein -"Never trust the teller. Trust the tale. " - D.H. Lawrence - "Why don't we have a Sir Isaac Newton Day?" - Me Guess what? I know a secret! |
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08-08-2005, 10:00 PM
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| Gold Member  Join Date: Feb 2003
Stats: 6'0" 265 lbs
Posts: 4,949
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08-08-2005, 10:06 PM
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| IF CHALLENGED, CLAIM YOUR DOMINION!  Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,234
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The Lord "is a shield to all who trust in Him" - 2 Samuel 22:31 Soli Deo Gloria! | |
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08-08-2005, 10:23 PM
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08-08-2005, 10:36 PM
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| Gold Member  Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Estados Unidos de América Age: 44
Posts: 319
| Remember this BS from USASwimming.org? "As most of you are aware, Kicker Vencill tested positive for 19-Norandrolone. He was able to show that his multivitamin was tainted but the rules state that you alone are responsible for what you choose to consume, and Kicker was suspended for two years. He was removed from the Pan American Games team last summer and will not be able to compete at Olympic Trials. He is asking you to join him in making a change to the supplement industry that cost him everything he had worked so hard for. Congress wants to make a difference and so should we as athletes. If changes never occur, our health, our reputation, and our careers could be at a potential risk. My career was ended all because of a contaminated multi vitamin containing steroid precursors. I'm not asking for your sympathy, but I am asking for your support in the fight to get steroid precursors pulled off of the supplement market. Whether or not you choose to take supplements, it is important that we work together to help prevent false positives. Nothing will ever change if we choose not to take a stand. Read below and see how you can make a difference in the legislation against steroid precursors. Kicker Vencill USA Swimming is a member of CASPER (the Coalition for Anabolic Steroid Precursor and Ephedra Regulation). We are asking you to write a message to your congressmen and women encouraging them to support the following bill: <snip> It’s very easy to cut and paste the sample letter below and send an email. Be sure you include a statement about why this is important to you. Your health, your sport, and your reputation are at risk due to a loosely regulated supplement industry. We want these representatives to know you feel strongly about this and that athletes (including you, your teammates and friends) are being affected by this daily. Send this on to family and friends and teammates and encourage them to send an email. We can make a change! (USADA indicates the following: “The easiest and most cost-effective method to get the letter to the respective Congressional or Senate representative is via email. Go to http://www.house.gov/writerep/ (Congress) or http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm (Senate). It is recommended that you email the representative from your state. The web site provides ability to search by zip code for Congress representatives. Please change the letter somewhat. This will increase the impact of the letters as opposed to the same letter being received numerous times. Also include a message about your USA Swimming membership and CASPER�. ) Letter for S.2195 (Support for Legislation in U.S. Senate) The Honorable «Name» «Title» United States Senate «Street_Address» «City», «State» «Zip» Dear Senator «Last_Name»: I am writing concerning, S. 2195, the "Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004," which is co-sponsored by Senators Mr. Biden (For Himself, Mr. Hatch, Mr. Grassley, Mr. Harkin, Mr. Stevens, Mr. McCain, Mr. Nelson, Mrs. Feinstein, Mr. Allen, and Ms. Murkowski). I urge you to support this legislation, because I am extremely concerned about the availability and increasing use of anabolic steroid precursors in the United States. Thousands of over-the-counter products containing steroid precursors that metabolize in the body into anabolic steroids are being sold as "safe" steroid equivalents. Currently, there is no requirement for manufacturers to conduct safety studies prior to, or after, releasing these steroid precursor products. However, because these products are metabolized by the body into anabolic steroids, the side-effects are thought to be the same as the side-effects resulting from steroid use, including the masculinization of women, potential for growth termination in adolescents, cardiovascular damage, liver damage and damage to reproductive organs. I support S. 2195, which would amend the Controlled Substances Act to clarify the definition of anabolic steroids and to provide for research and education activities relating to steroids and steroid precursors. Sincerely, Fred Nerk |
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08-08-2005, 10:43 PM
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| Gold Member  Join Date: May 2005 Age: 41
Posts: 2,220
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08-08-2005, 10:47 PM
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| 117 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Orange County, CA Age: 46
Posts: 136
| [QUOTE=BKneller] Good Post |
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08-08-2005, 11:04 PM
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| Registered User  Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Age: 29
Posts: 160
| Politics is everything that is wrong with our government. |
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08-09-2005, 12:35 AM
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| Gold Member Join Date: Feb 2003
Stats: 6'0" 265 lbs
Posts: 4,949
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08-09-2005, 01:09 AM
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| My P3N1Z is chafed. Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Marklar Age: 26
Posts: 5,306
| [QUOTE=TINYTOAD]Remember this BS from USASwimming.org? "As most of you are aware, Kicker Vencill tested positive for 19-Norandrolone. He was able to show that his multivitamin was tainted but the rules state that you alone are responsible for what you choose to consume, and Kicker was suspended for two years. He was removed from the Pan American Games team last summer and will not be able to compete at Olympic Trials. He is asking you to join him in making a change to the supplement industry that cost him everything he had worked so hard for. Congress wants to make a difference and so should we as athletes. If changes never occur, our health, our reputation, and our careers could be at a potential risk. My career was ended all because of a contaminated multi vitamin containing steroid precursors. I'm not asking for your sympathy, but I am asking for your support in the fight to get steroid precursors pulled off of the supplement market. Whether or not you choose to take supplements, it is important that we work together to help prevent false positives. Nothing will ever change if we choose not to take a stand. Read below and see how you can make a difference in the legislation against steroid precursors. Kicker Vencill [/QUOTE] Ohhh...I remember that lying prick. Claiming that orally ingesting nandrolone undec. in a small enough amount to be nothing mor than a 'contamination' caused him to have levels 200% above normal....what BS. Absolutely impossible...another example of how 'ignorance' is being used in the war against sports supplements. Not only that, but the jury gave the suit to him, regardless of the fact that the company in questiosn multis and PHs are / were made at two different facilities and lab results showed the multi was clean. -“Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either.”-Albert Einstein -"Never trust the teller. Trust the tale. " - D.H. Lawrence - "Why don't we have a Sir Isaac Newton Day?" - Me Guess what? I know a secret! |
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08-09-2005, 01:17 AM
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| Legend In Your Mind & IBE Rep  Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: In a Hole Age: 26
Stats: 6'1" 210 lbs
Posts: 3,841
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08-09-2005, 12:50 PM
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| Grouch Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bitch, I live in a F*CKING TRASH CAN! Age: 33
Posts: 273
| I think it's a different topic for a different forum...then again I'm the idiot who took this off-topic... BP |
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08-09-2005, 02:27 PM
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| Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003
Stats: 5'9" 220 lbs
Posts: 103
| Talking to the media is never a good thing in such a case...unless you are live. Every time I have tried I have seen the intereview later and knew that I never really said those things - never let them have your words to play with. And most often they do not want to know facts (there may be exceptions). Most often they want to sell product to people who have already made up their mind. For insance, 'roid rage and 'roid-related suicide...I have read enough and written enough about it to now that there is plenty enough data out there to raise questions about the media's (and even some scientist's) portrayals of these things as foregone conclusions. But the people and the congress know the truth already...it is all about belief...they do not want to be confused by facts or data. The media will most often feed the people's need to hear what they already think they know. For instance, I saw a headline this weekend about Lyle Alzado and how his death highlighted the dangers of AAS years ago - have they not been paying attention? It would be interesting to have someone from the media actually want to come and learn....but I will not hold my breath. |
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08-09-2005, 03:55 PM
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| My P3N1Z is chafed. Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Marklar Age: 26
Posts: 5,306
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What ever happened to the media? Its a disgrace unto itself. -“Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either.”-Albert Einstein -"Never trust the teller. Trust the tale. " - D.H. Lawrence - "Why don't we have a Sir Isaac Newton Day?" - Me Guess what? I know a secret! | |
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08-10-2005, 08:31 AM
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| Board Supporter  | Oh well, time to go smoke my cigar, wash down a Big Mac with some Jack Daniels, take a 20 minute cigarette break, take a deep breath and inhale some Carbon minoxide from all the SUV's, eat some fruit laced with pesticide, drink water that's contaminated with lead, drink a fresh glass of milk filled with hormones given to cows, overuse antibiotics and ponder all the dangers of supplements. |
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08-10-2005, 08:56 AM
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| Registered User | Priorities Yagman, don't you ever think before you post? What if Ms. Shipley or her editor or the FDA sees that? They'll have to put aside the very real dangers that supplements pose to every man, woman and child in America and go bring the tobacco, alcohol, fast food, etc industries to their knees, and you just know they'll do it, too. On a somewhat related note, I took one of my infrequent looks at a Wall Street Journal somewhere in the last week or two. There on the front page was a story about mercury in tuna, how one little boy was suffering serious effects from his rather obsessive consumption of tuna, how his well-educated parents were wondering why the FDA hadn't done a better job of warning folks of a danger they had known about for some time, and some details of just how poor the FDA's service to the public was on this issue. In this one example, at least, there is a glaring difference in which things the Washington Post covers vs. which the WSJ covers, and some resemblance to the supermarket tabloids by one of them. I guess there aren't that many people in America who eat tuna fish, and that would explain why the Post, the FDA and certain politicians prioritize the way they do. Last edited by GrossSizeRocks; 08-10-2005 at 09:04 AM. Reason: bad spelling! |
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08-10-2005, 09:25 AM
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| Board Supporter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Texas Age: 43
Posts: 523
| Well put Yagman!!!!!!!!!!! |
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08-10-2005, 09:35 AM
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08-10-2005, 10:10 AM
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| Obese Member  | Quote:
In a single post you managed to target those represented by the big tobacco lobby, the fast food lobby, the alcohol lobby, the automobile lobby, the farmers/ag lobby and finally the pharmaceutical lobby. Gee, and anyone wonder why they are picking on the supplement industry. Go after the low hanging fruit right? Its chickensh*t. | |
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08-10-2005, 12:13 PM
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| Registered User  Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: CA Age: 26
Stats: 6'0" 220 lbs
Posts: 2,416
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Hell Yeah. | |
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08-10-2005, 12:24 PM
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| Board Supporter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: USA Age: 35
Posts: 2,430
| any updates on the status of ALRI? I guess I need to go place an order to give them a little support. 6' 195 lbs. 32" waist 16 inch arms. |
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08-11-2005, 04:57 PM
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| Black Star Labs Board Sponsor | Quote:
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08-11-2005, 05:04 PM
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| Hot Italian Goldmember  Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Italy Age: 32
Posts: 2,138
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08-11-2005, 11:15 PM
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| Gold Member Join Date: May 2004 Age: 30
Posts: 941
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Since the overwhelming majority of the medical community (again, even if wrong) will tell anyone who listens that steroids are horrible for you, how can you blame the congressmen and senators for believing them? If a large number of experts kept telling you something, would you take their word for it or would you go searching for someone to tell you different and then believe that person? Set your personal beliefs about the subject aside and think about it from their perspective. The problem is the misinformation itself, not the people who rely on it in good faith and with no malice. /karp | |
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08-11-2005, 11:57 PM
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| IF CHALLENGED, CLAIM YOUR DOMINION! Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,234
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(It is the sad but true result of modern corruption and the lack of personal morality to keep it in control. Our Founding Fathers were strong Christians and the moral standards of the Bible kept this kind of stuff in check. You want separation of church and state? OK, then say hello to the current state of politics, and good-bye to the freedom of personal choice that can only be afforded when trust and morality are high.) The Lord "is a shield to all who trust in Him" - 2 Samuel 22:31 Soli Deo Gloria! | |
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