1-Androsterone

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    1-Androsterone log


    Hi there,

    I'm planning my second PH cycle. My first was dermacrine but I wasn't that impressed. I'm 35, 75kg.

    I'd like to know what you guys would recommend as a good PCT for a 400mg ed 4 week cycle of 1-Androsterone? I don't really want to go down the research chem route. Is it true you can just use Arom-X as your sole supp in PCT? What about during the cycle, is an AI a good thing to have also?

    Many thanks guys...

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    Well, I decided to stack 1-Androsterone and 4-AD. I ordered 2 bottle of each last night along with Arom-X for PCT. I'll probably run some herbs like Muira Puama/Catuaba alongside the Arom-X to complete the PCT. I'm not bothering with any extra liver support aside from the milk thistle I do anyway.

    I was hoping to run a 6 week cycle but it would only leave me with 3 caps per day of 4-AD and 1-Androsterone. Do you think that will be sufficient for some good gains in mass/strength? Am I complicating things by offsetting each of the PH's by a week, like someone else suggested? Say for example - starting a week early with the 1-Andro and finishing a week late with the 4-AD.

    Thanks for any advice on this stack, looking forward to posting the results...
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    I'm just wrapping up a few things and then I'm ready to rock out this stack.

    I'll definitely be posting up before and after pics along with details of diet and training.

    I'm gonna run a 5 week cycle which will look like this:

    Week 1 - 1-Androsterone x2 ed
    Week 2 - 1-Androsterone x2 ed + 4-ADx2
    Week 3 - 1-Androsterone x3 ed + 4-ADx3
    Week 4 - 1-Androsterone x3 ed + 4-ADx3
    Week 5 - 1-Androsterone x2 ed + 4-ADx2
    Week 6 - 4-AD x 2 ed

    PCT consists of Arom-X, Testopro, Tongkat Ali

    Was wondering whether you can stack 2 AI's together? I've been reading great things about Inhibit-E, does anyone know if it's safe to stack with Arom-X or is it not worth it?

    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboy View Post

    Was wondering whether you can stack 2 AI's together? I've been reading great things about , does anyone know if it's safe to stack with Arom-X or is it not worth it?

    Thanks!

    You can stack to two. They work well together. Good luck on your run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboy View Post
    I'm just wrapping up a few things and then I'm ready to rock out this stack.

    I'll definitely be posting up before and after pics along with details of diet and training.

    I'm gonna run a 5 week cycle which will look like this:

    Week 1 - 1-Androsterone x2 ed
    Week 2 - 1-Androsterone x2 ed + 4-ADx2
    Week 3 - 1-Androsterone x3 ed + 4-ADx3
    Week 4 - 1-Androsterone x3 ed + 4-ADx3
    Week 5 - 1-Androsterone x2 ed + 4-ADx2
    Week 6 - 4-AD x 2 ed

    PCT consists of Arom-X, Testopro, Tongkat Ali

    Was wondering whether you can stack 2 AI's together? I've been reading great things about Inhibit-E, does anyone know if it's safe to stack with Arom-X or is it not worth it?

    Thanks!
    I personally think you should keep the 1-andro at 3 caps per day to start and bump up after a week or two. I've seen most run the 1-andro upwards of 600-800mg daily for the capsules...although as a first true cycle you will likely see nice gains at even 300mg daily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon93 View Post

    You can stack to two. They work well together. Good luck on your run.
    Why would you stack two AI's?
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigs View Post
    I personally think you should keep the 1-andro at 3 caps per day to start and bump up after a week or two. I've seen most run the 1-andro upwards of 600-800mg daily for the capsules...although as a first true cycle you will likely see nice gains at even 300mg daily.



    Why would you stack two AI's?
    Well, my 4-AD plans went out the window. FYI - Never buy anything from cheapdiscountsupplements.com (UK). After never hearing from them after I'd placed my order for 2 bottles, I found they'd ripped off loads of other people too.

    So alas, I'm running solo 1-Androsterone and this is my second day of 4 a day.

    Worth noting so far:

    Day 1 weight - 76.6
    Day 2 - 77.2
    Day 3 - 78

    Bear in mind I started a cycle of creatine on day one also but I'll know for sure if the 1-Androsterone is working if I can top 80kg's which will be a first for me. I've been cycling creatine for years like this and never topped 80.

    My diet is very clean, 6 meals a day roughly 3000+ calories.

    Day 4 - feeling the lethargy I'd read about but it's not that bad (yet!). Not feeling any increase in appetite, hopefully that will come.

    I haven't noticed any strength improvements on my lifts yet but hitting the deads today which should be a good indicator. Still early days I guess...


    Thanks for the advice quigs, seeing as I won't be having the 4-AD now, do you think I should increase to 5+ capsules a day? I was thinking of doing a week @ 4ed and see how it went... I've changed my dosing strategy because of the lack of 4-AD. Unless I'm too laid out, I'll probably dose the 1-Andro higher and cut the cycle to 2-3 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigs View Post

    Why would you stack two AI's?
    For a fast rebound and you will get few more gains at the end of you cycle. The two that he is taking work in different ways so it is like a one two punch.
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    Thant sucks about the 4 ad. I just had to get a new Debit card because a supplement website was making fraud charges on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon93 View Post
    Thant sucks about the 4 ad. I just had to get a new Debit card because a supplement website was making fraud charges on it.
    Yea, I'm gonna make sure I stay with trusted suppliers like Predator Nutrition from now on... A simple google search of the company name and "website scam" would have prevented me from chucking 90 down the drain. Trying not to let myself get too f*cking wound up about it... I think the 1-Andro is shortening my fuse though...lol
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    LOL

    The only problem with mine is I never even been to there web site. I have no clue how they got my card number.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon93 View Post
    For a fast rebound and you will get few more gains at the end of you cycle. The two that he is taking work in different ways so it is like a one two punch.
    What do you mean they work in different ways? An aromatase inhibitor inhibits aromatase.
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    To the OP, pick up some 4-AD UTT. It will help with the lethargy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigs View Post
    What do you mean they work in different ways? An aromatase inhibitor inhibits aromatase.
    Where they are two different chemical the body treats them different. I find the effects of taking 2 different ones at a lower dose is better than taking one at a high dose. Why do you think some companies put more than one in there product. If what you say is the case then there wouldn't be a need for more than one kind. You would be able to grab any AI and go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigs View Post
    To the OP, pick up some 4-AD UTT. It will help with the lethargy.
    Yea, I would pick up some 4-AD UTT, in fact I would have done that in the first place but don't really want to stick unnecessary artificial sweeteners into my system, especially not aspartame.

    If any UK rep wants to send me a discount code for the capsules to help out with being conned by cheapdiscountsupplements.com, I'd be well grateful!!

    Day 5 - The lethargy has really knocked me out from time to time now. Appetite is also very suppressed. No noteworthy increase in performance in the gym yet. Weight is now sitting at +1.4kgs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon93 View Post
    Where they are two different chemical the body treats them different. I find the effects of taking 2 different ones at a lower dose is better than taking one at a high dose. Why do you think some companies put more than one in there product. If what you say is the case then there wouldn't be a need for more than one kind. You would be able to grab any AI and go.
    Your above statement makes no sense. I'm not sure where you are getting this information. If they have the same target they will just compete with each other for receptor sites. A steroidal suicidal AI will inhibit aromatase...doesn't matter which one it is. Having two different ones doesn't necessarily mean you will have any improved effects. Now they may have different pharmacological activity outside of aromatase inhibition, but if your goal is AI then this point is moot.

    Often times companies put several compounds in there with no real thought besides "well more must be better". This is not always the case, but seems to be the bro-mentality. Most supplement formulators have little/no education in biochem/physiology/pharmacology....and honestly, their product formulations show this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboy View Post
    Yea, I would pick up some 4-AD UTT, in fact I would have done that in the first place but don't really want to stick unnecessary artificial sweeteners into my system, especially not aspartame.

    If any UK rep wants to send me a discount code for the capsules to help out with being conned by cheapdiscountsupplements.com, I'd be well grateful!!

    Day 5 - The lethargy has really knocked me out from time to time now. Appetite is also very suppressed. No noteworthy increase in performance in the gym yet. Weight is now sitting at +1.4kgs.

    The amount of aspartame is negligible to be honest, and the detrimental effects of the stuff is unsubstantiated to begin with...but to each his own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigs View Post
    The amount of aspartame is negligible to be honest, and the detrimental effects of the stuff is unsubstantiated to begin with...but to each his own.
    It's the fact that aspartame contains 10% methanol which converts to formaldehyde in the body which puts me off the stuff. I'm not the only person who has been put off buying the AMS UTT products because of this. I wouldn't personally mind a little bit more of a bitter taste. All good medicine tastes like crap, right? ;-)
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    Day 6

    Weight up again to 78.8kg, 2.2 more than a week ago. Pleased about this. I've taken the dosage down to 3 per day because the lethargy is just too much otherwise. It really impacts on my endurance too, I'd say I'm down 25-30%. Hard to say if strength is improved yet, nothing dramatic that's for sure. I'm gonna start using stims I think to get over the lethargy...
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboy View Post
    Day 6

    Weight up again to 78.8kg, 2.2 more than a week ago. Pleased about this. I've taken the dosage down to 3 per day because the lethargy is just too much otherwise. It really impacts on my endurance too, I'd say I'm down 25-30%. Hard to say if strength is improved yet, nothing dramatic that's for sure. I'm gonna start using stims I think to get over the lethargy...
    Have you tried dosing at different times of day to help? I usually take my last dose right before bed to by pass that lethargic feeling and my first dose right before working out which would usually be around 5-6 in eve.
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    This whole thread makes me sick for some reason...
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboy View Post
    It's the fact that aspartame contains 10% methanol which converts to formaldehyde in the body which puts me off the stuff. I'm not the only person who has been put off buying the AMS UTT products because of this. I wouldn't personally mind a little bit more of a bitter taste. All good medicine tastes like crap, right? ;-)
    Well you do realize that you will get more methanol from a piece of ripe fruit than you will from the minute amounts of aspartame in the sublingual products...right?

    Not saying you are wrong though, its your choice what you put in your body.

    As for taste, while you may not mind a product with a foul taste, the average consumer would rather have something that is tolerable at least. That combined with the safety profile of aspartame are why it was used. I don't forsee any artificial sweetener free UTT products in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadaim View Post
    This whole thread makes me sick for some reason...
    huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadaim View Post
    This whole thread makes me sick for some reason...
    Can you explain?
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    Sadly, without the presence of ethanol (such as in fruits), methanol is unstable and breaks down into formladehyde, a poison and carcinogen. The ethanol in fruits acts like an antidote to the poison. I can understand why companies include artificial sweetners, it's just that for such a 'manly' pursuit, (predominantly male) consumers really can be like big girls blouses.

    Thanks johnjessica for that advice, I've definitely taken one before bed and slept soundly and will take your advice and incorporate one before the gym in an attempt to over-ride the lethargy.

    Day 7 - steady growth. +2.8kg from a week ago. Very happy about this and very much on target for my elusive 80kg threshold. Gonna take some guarana today for the lethargy (which I'm getting used to now). PS. This is definitely strong stuff - I can literally feel it 'working' within 20 minutes of taking it and feel it coursing through my system. 3 per day seems to be sweet spot for me, 4 was just too much.
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    Just to update my experience of 1-Androsterone...

    I'm now on day 11 and since yesterday upped my dosage to 4 caps a day. I definitely felt the need to to this as I couldn't 'feel' the substance working in my body as much as previously when 3 caps produced a strong effect.

    It's really been incredible, I have to say. Yesterday, I weighed in at 79.9kg, which is 0.1 away from my target weight. To see the weight go up daily is so rewarding... It's like - finally, I can put on that extra muscular weight I've been chasing for years. Friends have commented on how much bigger I'm looking, my strength is appreciably better and my physique just feels solid, it's a great feeling. I'm glad in a way I've stuck to the 1-Androsterone as stacking it would have muddied my appreciation of what was doing what. This way I can definitely say that the 1-Androsterone is working a charm, anything stronger would be too much for a 1st real cycle I feel so I'm glad with my first choice of PH.

    The only sides I've noticed is some lethargy upon taking it to about 2.5 hours later but this is easily alleviated with some guarana. It's definitely less noticable now, but along with that I'm assuming that my body is reaching a tolerance level and hence I've upped the dose. Libido hasn't changed a great deal I have to say, no problems there No hair loss, as expected with no conversion to DHT and only a little bacne, but even then it's nothing more than usual I'd say.

    It's been a real journey I have to say and at times during the lethargy I felt like 'what am I doing to my body', but then the gains came very fast and the great feeling you get when you're pumped more than you've ever felt.

    Greatest things so far:

    Lifting 5x5 145kg Deads (+10kg)
    Weighing 79.9kg (+3.3kg)
    Looking and feeling solid

    Will give another update at end cycle/during PCT.
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    I'm also running 1-andro right now stacked with 4-AD, but have yet to see anything from it yet. I seem maybe a little harder and may have dropped a little BF, but who knows. I'm liking the results you've gotten so far, and I'm subbin' in on this one! Can't wait to see how the rest goes!
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    Glad to have ya!

    Man, that sucks about the lackluster results from the stack. Can I ask - do you actually 'feel' different after dosing up? I get a feeling of lethargy from the 1-Andro and also the feeling I've taken an anti-histamine or maybe an antibiotic. Just from my experience, I'd say if you're not getting some kind of 'feeling', prolly just up the dose cos your body is tolerating it too easy. I'm thinking of upping my doses to 5 per day now (just 3 before) cos I just don't feel it working as much as before and also the scales have leveled out.

    Best of luck, man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboy View Post
    Glad to have ya!

    Man, that sucks about the lackluster results from the stack. Can I ask - do you actually 'feel' different after dosing up? I get a feeling of lethargy from the 1-Andro and also the feeling I've taken an anti-histamine or maybe an antibiotic. Just from my experience, I'd say if you're not getting some kind of 'feeling', prolly just up the dose cos your body is tolerating it too easy. I'm thinking of upping my doses to 5 per day now (just 3 before) cos I just don't feel it working as much as before and also the scales have leveled out.

    Best of luck, man.
    I don't feel much different after dosing, although I am also running 4-AD along with the 1-andro and as I understand the 4-AD will help with the lethargy and any libido issues caused by the 1-andro. I am beginning to think mine is hitting me later as I have gained another couple pounds since I checked my weight last.
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    i'm about to get my second cycle of 1-andro. my first experience was amazing. you can up the calories too. kept me real lean, hard and strong
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    I don't feel much different after dosing, although I am also running 4-AD along with the 1-andro and as I understand the 4-AD will help with the lethargy and any libido issues caused by the 1-andro. I am beginning to think mine is hitting me later as I have gained another couple pounds since I checked my weight last.
    Bring it on.

    One day into PCT. Probably earlier than most at 13 days would but felt it was the right time. I was hardly feeling the 1-Androsterone even at 4 per day so will save my caps for next cycle when I hope my tolerance will be less.

    Strength still going up first day of PCT. Endurance/Cardio still up there. Feel great and hoping to maintain my current weight (80.1 +3.5 from start). Thinking about a 1T-Tren cycle of about the same length in a couple of weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboy View Post
    Bring it on.

    One day into PCT. Probably earlier than most at 13 days would but felt it was the right time. I was hardly feeling the 1-Androsterone even at 4 per day so will save my caps for next cycle when I hope my tolerance will be less.

    Strength still going up first day of PCT. Endurance/Cardio still up there. Feel great and hoping to maintain my current weight (80.1 +3.5 from start). Thinking about a 1T-Tren cycle of about the same length in a couple of weeks.
    Even though you had a short cycle, you will probably want to wait 4-6 weeks after your current PCT before starting another cycle.

    As a general rule of thumb, time on cycle plus time on PCT equals time off before next cycle to allow your body to return to normal hmeostasis and refresh your receptors.

    BTW...what are you using for your current PCT?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    Even though you had a short cycle, you will probably want to wait 4-6 weeks after your current PCT before starting another cycle.

    As a general rule of thumb, time on cycle plus time on PCT equals time off before next cycle to allow your body to return to normal hmeostasis and refresh your receptors.

    BTW...what are you using for your current PCT?
    Yeah, I'd previously believed that too. However, I'd read an article by Reggie Johal where he said it was much safer to run a 2 week cycle, then take 2 weeks for PCT and then do another 2 week cycle following that with at least 4 weeks off before another cycle. He stated that this was in fact safer than running a longer cycle off the bat.

    My PCT is the PP TRS along with Mucuna Pruriens and 2 adaptogens which I run anyway. (Suma and Ashwagandha in case you're interested).
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboy View Post
    Yeah, I'd previously believed that too. However, I'd read an article by Reggie Johal where he said it was much safer to run a 2 week cycle, then take 2 weeks for PCT and then do another 2 week cycle following that with at least 4 weeks off before another cycle. He stated that this was in fact safer than running a longer cycle off the bat.

    My PCT is the PP TRS along with Mucuna Pruriens and 2 adaptogens which I run anyway. (Suma and Ashwagandha in case you're interested).
    Link to article? I think I've seen it and it really wasnt substantiated but maybe he has revised.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Link to article? I think I've seen it and it really wasnt substantiated but maybe he has revised.
    I can't actually post links as my post count isn't high enough yet, however if you search for this artiticle title "Prohormones - Short vs Long Cycles" and "Predator Nutrition" you'll get the article.


    ...but specifically as quoted from it:

    "Recommendations



    What this article should hopefully highlight is that there is no requirement to spend too long on a course of prohormones. Instead, a user can capture the benefits of prohormones while keeping side effects to a minimum by keeping cycle lengths short and also keeping appropriate liver support and estrogen blocking supplements to hand. Although the length of cycles may need to fluctuate slightly depending on individual tolerance to side effects one of the following two approaches is recommended:

    1. 2 weeks on 2 weeks off 2 weeks on 4 weeks off

    The 2 on-2 off approach was popularised by reknowned US writer Bill Roberts. By keeping cycle length to just two weeks, followed by two weeks of PCT, the chance of side effects is reduced significantly. Although gains will not be as high as the approach below, this approach has the advantage of allowing you to commence a cycle again after just two weeks off. At that that point you could go on for two further weeks followed by a full four weeks off (where you would use PCT products again). At that point many users will start over again.

    The major advantage of this approach is it will produce steady gains over time, and because time off is reduced on this type of cycle, losses post cycle will be reduced or even eliminated making it very attractive psychologically, as nobody wants to run a cycle and get great gains, only to lose most of it during a long recovery period. By keeping time spent using prohormones to a minimum at any one time the chance of side effects is reduced massively."


    Would you mind telling me why you'd think he (and Bill Roberts) might be wrong in recommending short cycles? Also, comparatively - what evidence is there that longer cycles would be safer/more effective than shorter ones (twice over 8 weeks inc PCT)? Also, and only from my (very) limited experience, I saw my tolerance to the 1-Andro go right up after about 10 days to the point where I'd needed to have taken nearly twice as many caps to achieve the same effect, so wouldn't it make sense that shorter cycles are better at keeping your body guessing and keeping tolerance to any given substance low? This (assuming that tolerance goes back down after 2 weeks off) would make it far more economical also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboy View Post
    I can't actually post links as my post count isn't high enough yet, however if you search for this artiticle title "Prohormones - Short vs Long Cycles" and "Predator Nutrition" you'll get the article.


    ...but specifically as quoted from it:

    "Recommendations



    What this article should hopefully highlight is that there is no requirement to spend too long on a course of prohormones. Instead, a user can capture the benefits of prohormones while keeping side effects to a minimum by keeping cycle lengths short and also keeping appropriate liver support and estrogen blocking supplements to hand. Although the length of cycles may need to fluctuate slightly depending on individual tolerance to side effects one of the following two approaches is recommended:

    1. 2 weeks on 2 weeks off 2 weeks on 4 weeks off

    The 2 on-2 off approach was popularised by reknowned US writer Bill Roberts. By keeping cycle length to just two weeks, followed by two weeks of PCT, the chance of side effects is reduced significantly. Although gains will not be as high as the approach below, this approach has the advantage of allowing you to commence a cycle again after just two weeks off. At that that point you could go on for two further weeks followed by a full four weeks off (where you would use PCT products again). At that point many users will start over again.

    The major advantage of this approach is it will produce steady gains over time, and because time off is reduced on this type of cycle, losses post cycle will be reduced or even eliminated making it very attractive psychologically, as nobody wants to run a cycle and get great gains, only to lose most of it during a long recovery period. By keeping time spent using prohormones to a minimum at any one time the chance of side effects is reduced massively."


    Would you mind telling me why you'd think he (and Bill Roberts) might be wrong in recommending short cycles? Also, comparatively - what evidence is there that longer cycles would be safer/more effective than shorter ones (twice over 8 weeks inc PCT)? Also, and only from my (very) limited experience, I saw my tolerance to the 1-Andro go right up after about 10 days to the point where I'd needed to have taken nearly twice as many caps to achieve the same effect, so wouldn't it make sense that shorter cycles are better at keeping your body guessing and keeping tolerance to any given substance low? This (assuming that tolerance goes back down after 2 weeks off) would make it far more economical also.

    The way i see it is it really depends on the PH used and the Person. Not all that works for one will work for other and many will expeience tolerance & side effect problems at different times. I dont see great gains with 4 week cycles, well let me rephrase ... I dont keep my gains with short cycles and this product inpaticular is pretty mild and the sweet spot for me is right around 8weeks. If i run it for lets say 3-4 weeks ill put on 6-8lbs but prob loose 3-6 due to water and other reasons. So personally for me im a supporter of the longer cycles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOHNJESSICA20 View Post
    The way i see it is it really depends on the PH used and the Person. Not all that works for one will work for other and many will expeience tolerance & side effect problems at different times. I dont see great gains with 4 week cycles, well let me rephrase ... I dont keep my gains with short cycles and this product inpaticular is pretty mild and the sweet spot for me is right around 8weeks. If i run it for lets say 3-4 weeks ill put on 6-8lbs but prob loose 3-6 due to water and other reasons. So personally for me im a supporter of the longer cycles.
    Sure, personal experience always wins out in the end! I guess it's about intelligent monitoring of all the pros and cons but yea, like you say - seeing as this is one of the safer PHs, it's not such a safety concern. My choice for a short 2 week cycle was governed more by tolerance/cost issues. I was quite surprised to see my tolerance suddenly ramp right up around day 10/11 so it seemed a good a time as any to try the shorter cycle approach. I'm now day 9 into PCT and true enough, my gains went down 2 kilos - back to 78 (+2 form beginning) so I can't wait to hop back on by Sunday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomboy View Post
    Sure, personal experience always wins out in the end! I guess it's about intelligent monitoring of all the pros and cons but yea, like you say - seeing as this is one of the safer PHs, it's not such a safety concern. My choice for a short 2 week cycle was governed more by tolerance/cost issues. I was quite surprised to see my tolerance suddenly ramp right up around day 10/11 so it seemed a good a time as any to try the shorter cycle approach. I'm now day 9 into PCT and true enough, my gains went down 2 kilos - back to 78 (+2 form beginning) so I can't wait to hop back on by Sunday.
    Yes cost issues seem to be the determining factor on every cycle for me too, so i feel your pain. Goodluck man and just keep trying different things till you find out what your body responds to best.
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    Trenazone was pretty damn good... It is a transdermal.
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