Nasty Dienedrone sides

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  1. just my take on this ---I take my last dose around 11am and if its true that it has a half life of 8-10 hrs then thats just around the time when this "EFFECT" starts [estro conversion ?] so after reading the above study I think its a good idea to run some estro control when using---also this kinda reminds my of what would happen when I used [300mg of TE WK] so in a way it lets me know the product "is for real "


  2. Quote Originally Posted by skull View Post
    just my take on this ---I take my last dose around 11am and if its true that it has a half life of 8-10 hrs then thats just around the time when this "EFFECT" starts [estro conversion ?] so after reading the above study I think its a good idea to run some estro control when using---also this kinda reminds my of what would happen when I used [300mg of TE WK] so in a way it lets me know the product "is for real "
    OK, if that is what's happening why would estrogen make our ears burn?

    Something no one has mentioned is the Peperine in this formula. Is there enough quantity to perhaps cause this burning effect? I think not but???

    I have checked my BP and body temperature. Both are normal.
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  3. in post #27[Secondary polycythemia ] I think the burning ear thing has to do with increased red blood cells--I coldnt find the article but it describes red face ears eyes [itchy] the swoll feeling hands,ankles,bloate--increase in estrogen---the only way your gonna find out what it is --is by trying some of the suggestions here --plus everyones different--I know the benadryl worked for me --and I always run some estro control with every cycle

  4. Maybe one of the AMS tech guys could answer this:

    Does diendrone convert to estrogen by the same aromatase pathway that converts test to estradiol? And if so, can't we just jump on an aromatase inhibitor while on cycle to stop the unwanted conversion?

  5. The US DEA did in vivo testing with dienolone and boldione (DEA Agreement No. DEA-04-P0007.) Yesterday we reported that the American DEA completed a bill which concludes that DMT, boldione, and dienolone be considered anabolic steroids. The drug agency tested the effects of dienolone, aka 19-nor-4,9(10)-androstadienedione, and boldione, aka 1,4-androstadien-3,17-dione, on rats. The most striking outcome of that study: dienolone is strange stuff.

    The research workers, Alvin Matsumoto and Brett Marck, administered rat implants which delivered steady levels of the steroid hormones, and also gave rats in a control group implants without active substances (placebo). Eight weeks after the operation, the researchers looked at the effects on the animals. Boldione raised the concentration of testosterone in the rats. Could the antibodies that the research workers used for the boldione analogue have been confused with testosterone? (See Diagram below) Dienolone raised the levels of estradiol in the animals. That is logical. Dienolone seems to convert fairly easily to estrogen.



    The concentrations of LH and FSH, the two driving hormones which induce the testes to produce testosterone, were diminished by the administration of both hormones. Remarkably, after the administration of dienolone the weight of the testes increased. This is seen in the figure below.




    Then the researchers tested the anabolic / androgenic properties of the two steroids shown via the sizing of the prostate and the levator ani muscle of the rats, as shown in the diagram below.




    From the results you would think that dienolone was a more powerful anabolic / androgen than boldione. However this was not the case. The above figures are in relation to the relative weights: the weight of the levator ani muscle and the total body weight of the rats. The rats that received dienolone had gained less weight than the other animals, but mainly because they were less willing to eat. Below you see the weight increases of the test animals. The rats who received dienolone had a larger increase in the weight of the prostate and levator ani muscle, which was not surprising. The fact that the rats who were administered dienolone had an enlargement of the testes, could not be explained. The research workers think that dienolone decreased the appetite because it converted into estradiol. In 1978, researchers discovered that androgens which convert to estradiol especially decrease ones appetite. Weight changes are shown in the diagram below.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by subweevil View Post
    That's solid advice right there!! Best to start your support stuff at least a few weeks before going into it,and continue like-wise for a few weeks after. Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but you could add some doses of arginine and/or other vasodilators to reduce blood pressure some, just an idea. Good luck, and keep us posted!!
    Pretty sure arginine, and N.O will increase blood pressure

  7. Im using extreme tren right now, just added it to my epi run, Ill be honest, ive never been really able ot finihs a tren cycle, the sides for me outweigh the gains, crusty bloody boogers, extreme anger! towards EVERYONE ( only ph or ds that does this to me! ) and total and i mean toaly loss of sex drive, I think one day people will wonder wtf were any of us doing using that stuff!, crushes your blood pressure. Oh it also cause s me to get huge puffy bags under my eyes, and Im positive its the tren , ive done experements. Its a shame too cause I have 2 unopened bottles of it and one that i just cant seem to use. ANyone wants to trade 1 for an epi clone or h drol clone pm me, but buyer beware, its some real weird harsh stuff ( for me at least ) dont think ill use again. But for positives HUGE strength gains, And the biggest pumps ive ever had in my life.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by searl12 View Post
    Im using extreme tren right now, just added it to my epi run, Ill be honest, ive never been really able ot finihs a tren cycle, the sides for me outweigh the gains, crusty bloody boogers, extreme anger! towards EVERYONE ( only ph or ds that does this to me! ) and total and i mean toaly loss of sex drive, I think one day people will wonder wtf were any of us doing using that stuff!, crushes your blood pressure. Oh it also cause s me to get huge puffy bags under my eyes, and Im positive its the tren , ive done experements. Its a shame too cause I have 2 unopened bottles of it and one that i just cant seem to use. ANyone wants to trade 1 for an epi clone or h drol clone pm me, but buyer beware, its some real weird harsh stuff ( for me at least ) dont think ill use again. But for positives HUGE strength gains, And the biggest pumps ive ever had in my life.
    I have bottle of havoc

  9. mines unopened, 1 is now that I just checked , other is missing 20 of 90, and the other one is element nutrition, 2/3 empty

  10. Pretty sure arginine, and N.O will increase blood pressure
    Actually, vasodialtors don't. Easiest way to compare it is a small pipe that is flowing soild, then, take and upgrade the size of the pipe while maintaining the same amount of liquid. Now, the pipe isn't solid with liquid anymore. With less constriction, there would be less pressure.

  11. I took it for 2 days. 2 caps a day and felt a definite increase in strength. I quit because of the sides. Got a killer headache the second day and felt agitated and panicky. Blood pressure went up also. Not saying it happens to everyone just what I experienced. It really sucks that I had to quit because it seemed to really be working.

  12. ya man,makes u feel and look like steel, but just not worth it
  13. tattoopierced1
    tattoopierced1's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by silvergoat View Post
    I took it for 2 days. 2 caps a day and felt a definite increase in strength. I quit because of the sides. Got a killer headache the second day and felt agitated and panicky. Blood pressure went up also. Not saying it happens to everyone just what I experienced. It really sucks that I had to quit because it seemed to really be working.
    there are things you can take to combat the sides such as high BP etc..

  14. Quote Originally Posted by silvergoat View Post
    I took it for 2 days. 2 caps a day and felt a definite increase in strength. I quit because of the sides. Got a killer headache the second day and felt agitated and panicky. Blood pressure went up also. Not saying it happens to everyone just what I experienced. It really sucks that I had to quit because it seemed to really be working.
    That's too bad man. Have you had this issue with any other ph's?

  15. after a week too these sides seem to diminish to be honest, in my opinion he should have maybe at least given it a week to see how it went. 2 days is somewhat premature.Obviously its his body so its his call.

    .02

  16. True, often times the body seems to adapt...but not always.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by skull View Post
    The US DEA did in vivo testing with dienolone and boldione (DEA Agreement No. DEA-04-P0007.) Yesterday we reported that the American DEA completed a bill which concludes that DMT, boldione, and dienolone be considered anabolic steroids. The drug agency tested the effects of dienolone, aka 19-nor-4,9(10)-androstadienedione, and boldione, aka 1,4-androstadien-3,17-dione, on rats.
    They refer to dienolone, but it should be diendione or prodienolone or something else.

    diendione - 19-norandrost-4,9-diene-3,17-dione

    dienonolone - 17b-hydroxy-19-norandrost-4,9(10)-diene-3-one

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Rippe View Post
    I did a lot of reading up before I decided to try Dienedrone and it sounded fairly low risk. I have used other products in the past with no trouble (Pheraplex, original 1-AD, 1-Test, etc.). I am not a "noobie" and am very aware of how my body reacts to diet supps and training.

    I have been taking Dienedrone for 1 week now, 100mg/day split am/pm.

    By the middle of the first day I noticed a strange side effect that I have felt everyday since - burning in my ears (like a sunburn) and face. The third day on Dienedrone I also had swollen hands - so much so that I had bruises the next day after lifting. The swelling has subsided but the burning ears/face persist. I also feel pressure in my head - especially when bending over to tie shoes, etc.

    These symptoms seem to indicate my BP has skyrocketed yet I have not seen posts from anyone else stating similar significant problems with Dienedrone.

    So, what could be the problem here? Is it likely a BP issue or something else? I intend to get the BP checked ASAP - don't want to let this go if it is a BP issue. Hawthorn berry (recently added) hasn't helped.

    Maybe I'm done?
    Are you using the new AMS liquiddrone?

    -Eric

  19. Quote Originally Posted by skull View Post
    The US DEA did in vivo testing with dienolone and boldione (DEA Agreement No. DEA-04-P0007.) Yesterday we reported that the American DEA completed a bill which concludes that DMT, boldione, and dienolone be considered anabolic steroids. The drug agency tested the effects of dienolone, aka 19-nor-4,9(10)-androstadienedione, and boldione, aka 1,4-androstadien-3,17-dione, on rats. The most striking outcome of that study: dienolone is strange stuff.

    The research workers, Alvin Matsumoto and Brett Marck, administered rat implants which delivered steady levels of the steroid hormones, and also gave rats in a control group implants without active substances (placebo). Eight weeks after the operation, the researchers looked at the effects on the animals. Boldione raised the concentration of testosterone in the rats. Could the antibodies that the research workers used for the boldione analogue have been confused with testosterone? (See Diagram below) Dienolone raised the levels of estradiol in the animals. That is logical. Dienolone seems to convert fairly easily to estrogen.
    That does not make sense for dienolone or dienelone, the body does not remove the 9-ene, and aromatase cant interact with a 9-ene. It cant convert to estradiol

    -Eric

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    That does not make sense for dienolone or dienelone, the body does not remove the 9-ene, and aromatase cant interact with a 9-ene. It cant convert to estradiol

    -Eric
    Well , maybe its turning buy some other mech.---[Estra 4,9 in general] just look at all the bros getting gyno -I wouldnt use the stuff without a good AI--This stuff has an interesting history 1st they tried to say it was tren,then some say its a progestin others say no,Some say its easy on the liver [non meth] some get elavated enzymes --Realy I dont care [as long as im prepared for what could happen] because I seem to do very well on it

  21. its great for hardness and size.....but it destroyed, and I mean destroyed my blood work.
    Thats with all support supps and pct.....the only thing that wasnt off horribly was my morning Test.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by searl12 View Post
    its great for hardness and size.....but it destroyed, and I mean destroyed my blood work.
    Thats with all support supps and pct.....the only thing that wasnt off horribly was my morning Test.
    So how bad was your blood work? -HDL/LDL-LIVER--What was your dosage?

  23. ill post it right now brother...again as far as I know I was healthy before my cycle....occasionally iblazed some chronic...but nothing that in the opinion of the doctor that would have caused this bloodwork.

  24. here it is guys

    My dosage was simply the recommended one....3 caps evenly dosed with fats.
    These results were 1 week into pct
    complete blood count

    SORRY FOR THE CRAPPY CHART
    *Complete blood count
    my levels normal levels
    HGB 183 / 135-175
    RBC 5.69 / 4.40-6.00

    *CREATININE LEVELS (THIS HAD THE DOC THE MOST CONCERNED)

    132 / 50-115

    *CALCULATED GFR

    57 / >59(CHRONIC KIDNEY DISEASE IS DEFINED BY 3 MONTHS BELOW)

    *LIPIDS

    -CHOLESTEROL
    5.63! / <4.60

    -HDL
    0.99 / >0.90

    -LDL
    4.18 / <3.00

    -TOTAL CHOL./HDL RATIO 5.7......

    *LIVER VALUES ( I ASKED FOR EVERYTHING BUT SOMEHOW ONLY GOT THE BILIRUBIN)
    -BILIRUBIN
    13 / <20

    TESTOSTERONE (AGAIN ASKED FOR MORE THAN WHAT I GOT)
    AM TESTOSTERONE(MORNING TEST)
    32.1 / 10.3-29.5

    I do apologize for the lackluster quality of this so called chart and I did want more liver info than i received....needless to say I am glad i got bloodwork, when I went in the doctor said there was no point because it would pobably come back fine......GOOD JOB DOC! GLAD TO SEE YOUR RUSHING THROUGH YOUR PATIENTS AND ASSUMING THERE OK! BRAVO A HOLE, MY FOLLOW UP WAS WITH A NEW DOCTOR WHO WAS MUCH MORE CONCERNED AND SPENT MORE THAN 1 MINUTE ATTENDING TO ME.

    In Canada healthcare is free....but the system is so fckn flawed, wait times are insane, and doctors are taught to get people in and out as fast as possible...

    GOOD JOB CANADA, your really doing bang up work in healthcare, immigration, and trying to fix our economy....pfff pathetic.

    cheers
  25. tattoopierced1
    tattoopierced1's Avatar

    As far as you know, or you have bloodwork proving your numbers? Not to sound like an ass, but "feeling" and knowing are two different things. No doubt taking PH/AAS can screw up some stuff for you, but if you have no baseline to start from, it is kinda hard to say "i was fine" beforehand....

  26. Quote Originally Posted by searl12 View Post
    here it is guys

    My dosage was simply the recommended one....3 caps evenly dosed with fats.
    These results were 1 week into pct
    complete blood count

    SORRY FOR THE CRAPPY CHART
    *Complete blood count
    my levels normal levels
    HGB 183 / 135-175
    RBC 5.69 / 4.40-6.00

    *CREATININE LEVELS (THIS HAD THE DOC THE MOST CONCERNED)

    132 / 50-115

    *CALCULATED GFR

    57 / >59(CHRONIC KIDNEY DISEASE IS DEFINED BY 3 MONTHS BELOW)

    *LIPIDS

    -CHOLESTEROL
    5.63! / <4.60

    -HDL
    0.99 / >0.90

    -LDL
    4.18 / <3.00

    -TOTAL CHOL./HDL RATIO 5.7......

    *LIVER VALUES ( I ASKED FOR EVERYTHING BUT SOMEHOW ONLY GOT THE BILIRUBIN)
    -BILIRUBIN
    13 / <20

    TESTOSTERONE (AGAIN ASKED FOR MORE THAN WHAT I GOT)
    AM TESTOSTERONE(MORNING TEST)
    32.1 / 10.3-29.5

    I do apologize for the lackluster quality of this so called chart and I did want more liver info than i received....needless to say I am glad i got bloodwork, when I went in the doctor said there was no point because it would pobably come back fine......GOOD JOB DOC! GLAD TO SEE YOUR RUSHING THROUGH YOUR PATIENTS AND ASSUMING THERE OK! BRAVO A HOLE, MY FOLLOW UP WAS WITH A NEW DOCTOR WHO WAS MUCH MORE CONCERNED AND SPENT MORE THAN 1 MINUTE ATTENDING TO ME.

    In Canada healthcare is free....but the system is so fckn flawed, wait times are insane, and doctors are taught to get people in and out as fast as possible...

    GOOD JOB CANADA, your really doing bang up work in healthcare, immigration, and trying to fix our economy....pfff pathetic.

    cheers
    The first thing -how long was your cycle? and were you taking anything else? Next I think thats the first ive seen with the bad creatinine levels with this product-The rest seems pretty common [if im reading it right those > < symbols always mess me up] For kidney it says if 3 months below 59 your screwd---Am I reading the HDL right its high cause usualy its low? LDL to be expected --And bilirubin is high or low?

  27. Is it the dienadrone product your taking? because it says dont take more than 2 caps per day for more than 6 weeks

  28. sorry guys, I could have been a little more thourough, I was taking the exact ingredient, 90mg / day for 4 weeks, I should have included all that.

    I did have the pre blood drawn and I was withing all normal ranges.

    That being said....obviously it could have been something else...I took green mag periodically throughout the cycle.

    In no way WHATSOEVER am I bashing these dienelone precursors, or Advanced Muscle.
    Other thna CEL I would think they might be the most reputable up and coming company there is right now.ALso simply because my bloodwork was off certainly does not mean everyones will be.

    If i offended anyone with my hastily thrown together chart or misinformed anyone I am sorry, I was asked to post it, and the second I saw the request...was the second I put it up.

    All in all im sure with proper time off my levels will return to normal, and I will make sure of that before using again.

    I also should have mentioned my cycle experience

    2 M1T cycles (ya I know Rat poison)
    1 Extreme Tren cycle
    2 E Stane

    and to the other post my liver levels were fine, and the creatinine level probably werent from Tren, The Doc told me creatine isnt as safe as all the companies tell us, and not to use it. Not sure what to think of that but I will go easy on it as Im no Doctor.

    cheers.
  29. tattoopierced1
    tattoopierced1's Avatar

    not to be a stickler.. but Diene is dosed in 50mg pills.. did you mean 100mg total and not 90?

  30. again brothers, I honetly didnt even realize till after it was the ADVANCE MUSCLE thread, so me taking Extreme Tren, albeit the same compound...could obviously have skewed these results as well as quality control procedures may be different, pill sizes are different etc.etc.

    I should have mentioned all this and again liek I said I was asked to post it, and within 30 seconds I was typing it out. I probably should have put it together more carefully.

    On a similar note I think no matter how old you are or what your taking getting that blooodwork is crucial! at least if your levels are off it will give you a chance to work on lowering them.....if you dont know you might think your healthy when you could have some serious problems.

    02. boys, stay healthy through all of this, and cycle responsibly or dont cycle at all.
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