Ams 4-ad Vs. 1st Gen 4-ad

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    Ams 4-ad Vs. 1st Gen 4-ad


    There is minimal info on the AMS 4-ad as far as how effective it is, proper dose and length of cycle? How does it compare to the old 4-ad variants or does it even compare? If it does indeed work, what dose do you have to take to equal the dose of the 1st gen 4-ad prods? I know your 1-ad is effective and the conversion rate is pretty solid so it can and does compare to the 1st gen 1-ad prods, but people are claiming 4-ad is severly underdosed, overpriced and does not work that well. Other than trenadrol, 4-ad was my fav PH and would like to exp the gains i rec from it.

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    I cant speak for any old 4AD as I never took any of them, however, I am starting a 1Andro/4AD stack here pretty soon and will have a log going.
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    from what I gather its similar, but that does mean 600-800 as a starting point...
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    from what I gather its similar, but that does mean 600-800 as a starting point...
    I am wondering if 800mg of the AMS 4-ad equals[ at the least] around 400mg of a 1st gen 4-ad prod. It is ext hard to not only find logs, but to find positive reviews. AMS needs to do spons logs on this one in the event of a 1-ad/4-ad stack might only produce 1-ad gains.
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    Looks like they have some logging opportunities at another forum. You could apply over there and find out firsthand how effective it is. Or wait for the feedback from those logs/reviews.
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    Question


    Quote Originally Posted by ersatz View Post
    Looks like they have some logging opportunities at another forum. You could apply over there and find out firsthand how effective it is. Or wait for the feedback from those logs/reviews.

    Yeah, but this prod is the big unk, we need more feedeback from users or reps who have used, bec 4-ad was a killer PH for strength and mass gains. BUMP,BUMP.
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    Need some feedback on 4-ad.
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    OK just run me a couple bottles and i will give good review.
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    i got some org. 4ad but dont know what to run it with, i have enough to run i think at 800 mg a day for 5 weeks
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    I havnt run AMS 4-ad but i have ran there 1ad and 800mgs of AMS 1ad felt like 600 of original 1ad. So id say just dose it about 200 or so mgs higher, which i beleive is 1 cap and you should be good to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by freezito View Post
    i got some org. 4ad but dont know what to run it with, i have enough to run i think at 800 mg a day for 5 weeks
    would be great with epi/havoc or even solo with superdrol the last or first 3 weeks
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    I havnt run AMS 4-ad but i have ran there 1ad and 800mgs of AMS 1ad felt like 600 of original 1ad. So id say just dose it about 200 or so mgs higher, which i beleive is 1 cap and you should be good to go.

    You are right the 1-ad is great, we just need additional info on the 4-ad.
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    i have a couple of bottles of epi so i will have to consider that
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    ive been trying to get this answer for a long time...

    orig. 4-AD converts to testosterone @ the rate of %15
    Androstenedoine converts to testosterone @ the rate of %5
    DHEA converts to testosterone @ the rate of %0.5

    so fill in the blank...

    AMS 4-AD(4DHEA) converts to testosterone @ the rate of %____, when its all said and done.

    then ill know how much to pick up
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mu5tang69 View Post
    ive been trying to get this answer for a long time...

    orig. 4-AD converts to testosterone @ the rate of %15
    Androstenedoine converts to testosterone @ the rate of %5
    DHEA converts to testosterone @ the rate of %0.5

    so fill in the blank...

    AMS 4-AD(4DHEA) converts to testosterone @ the rate of %____, when its all said and done.

    then ill know how much to pick up
    That is exactly what i am trying to find out and still no info, wanting to get acouple of bottles but it is not worth it if a bottle lasts only a week. Reps chime in
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad dog View Post
    That is exactly what i am trying to find out and still no info, wanting to get acouple of bottles but it is not worth it if a bottle lasts only a week. Reps chime in
    I dont have that info on hand, I can try and get it, but the only answer I can give now, is to read reviews at various places. It works well, the proof is in the pudding so to speak.
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    AMS 4-AD(4DHEA) converts to testosterone @ the rate of 15%, when its all said and done
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    AMS 4-AD(4DHEA) converts to testosterone @ the rate of 15%, when its all said and done
    Really?! That seems pretty good for a non methyl oral.
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    When stacked with something like 1-Androsterone it provides a nice libido lift to offset the 1-Androsterone sides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    AMS 4-AD(4DHEA) converts to testosterone @ the rate of 15%, when its all said and done
    OK but have you used yet to really feel if it is effective as the 1st gen 4-ad prods? THE 1-AD PROD has been deemed effective and the PP trans 1-ad is getting killer rev, but 4-ad is in question and no one has any answers? chime in reps
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    I never used a 1st gen 4ad product
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    I never used a 1st gen 4ad product
    have you used AMS version? If so how were you results?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    have you used AMS version? If so how were you results?
    I'm using the 1Andro/4AD/Decavol stack now, seeing good results in strength, joints feel great, and appetite is up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    AMS 4-AD(4DHEA) converts to testosterone @ the rate of 15%, when its all said and done
    Is 4DHEA different than regular DHEA? I was under the impression that this product was just DHEA. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    I'm using the 1Andro/4AD/Decavol stack now, seeing good results in strength, joints feel great, and appetite is up.
    can you give number wise the increases in strength as well as mass?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AML View Post
    Is 4DHEA different than regular DHEA? I was under the impression that this product was just DHEA. Please correct me if I am wrong.
    answer is coming.. i have limited computer access right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    can you give number wise the increases in strength as well as mass?
    my db presses went from 100lb reps and i'm using the 120's now for sets of 8.

    Not sure on weight, I really dont keep up on my weight, I go by mirror look and feel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AML View Post
    Is 4DHEA different than regular DHEA? I was under the impression that this product was just DHEA. Please correct me if I am wrong.
    Here you go...

    How are they better than DHEA?


    Q: Are these products like standard DHEA? If not, how are they different and/or more effective?

    A: The Advanced Muscle Science products, 1-Androsterone ™ and 4-AD ™ are isomers of DHEA, but different from standard DHEA. 1-DHEA (1-Androsterone) is actually a precursor to 1-Androstenedione. 4-AD is a “4-DHEA” or a 4-ene where regular DHEA should be called a “5-DHEA”

    AMS 4-AD and 1-Androsterone will convert more readily to Testosterone (4-Androsterone) and 1-Testosterone (1Androsterone). Really though, it all depends on enzymatic activity and their propensity to affect different molecules and the “groups” (like ketones, alcohols, etc.) they possess.

    So, there are structural differences:

    4-Androsterone vs 5-DHEA - 4-AD will be more efficient at converting to testosterone AND will be LESS estrogenic than standard 5-DHEA.

    As for 1-Androsterone…in a nutshell, 1-DHEA (1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one) is an intermediate between 1-Adiol and 1-ADione. 1-DHEA will convert at a VERY high rate to 1-Testosterone. If you remember, 1-Dione was the first product released and was VERY effective. This product will be MORE effective than the 1-Diol or 1-Dione of the past and is a VERY potent muscle builder because of its delivery system. 1-Androsterone will improve upon what was an already high conversion rate to its target hormone, 1-Testosterone.

    Not a liver toxic methyl prohormone, 1-Androsterone and 4-AD combines the safest and most advanced delivery method available in a prohormone product to deliver better results than the older 1-Andro products.

    We have licensed the advanced delivery system for utilizing your naturally occurring hormones to provide the most advanced system on the market today for blocking negative side effects while increasing free testosterone. Once again, like the older products, 1-Androsterone cannot convert to estrogen or DHT, so gyno and hair loss are not a concern and 4-AD includes an anti-estrogen and DHT blocker (to reduce these natural pathways).
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    for what its worth...

    During the summer I took AMS's 4-ad to combat libido loss due to dieting and 11-oxo usage.

    Any how I took it in the AM only at 3-4 pills a day. At 4 pills it kocked me out, I mean real lethargic, like a sedetive, don't know why.

    I got no gains from it, and I would say that it doesn't compare to the original 4-AD, Thats the reason you hear nothing about it, otherwise everyone on cycle would want it to combat the sides of all these DHT non aromatizing designer anabolics flooding the market.

    PA said that its possible to make a new generation 4-ad product but it would be ungodly expensive to do.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by json75 View Post
    for what its worth...

    During the summer I took AMS's 4-ad to combat libido loss due to dieting and 11-oxo usage.

    Any how I took it in the AM only at 3-4 pills a day. At 4 pills it kocked me out, I mean real lethargic, like a sedetive, don't know why.

    I got no gains from it...
    Hey json, couple of questions:

    1. Were you still running the 11-oxo at the same time as the 4-Ad? Could you post up your exact cycle outline?

    2. If you ran both at the same time did you stop getting gains altogether? If not, how did you distinguish the gains from 11-oxo vs 4-Ad?

    3. Finally how extreme was this diet? What week were you in when this occured?

    I might have some answers for you if you could provide those details.
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    I think if you would have split the doses up, you wouldnt have had an issue with the lethargy also. It is recommended to split the doses up throughout the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by json75 View Post
    for what its worth...

    During the summer I took AMS's 4-ad to combat libido loss due to dieting and 11-oxo usage.

    Any how I took it in the AM only at 3-4 pills a day. At 4 pills it kocked me out, I mean real lethargic, like a sedetive, don't know why.

    I got no gains from it, and I would say that it doesn't compare to the original 4-AD, Thats the reason you hear nothing about it, otherwise everyone on cycle would want it to combat the sides of all these DHT non aromatizing designer anabolics flooding the market.

    PA said that its possible to make a new generation 4-ad product but it would be ungodly expensive to do.....

    This is def the question i have been answering and have not rec a reply, 4AD pricey and i don't want to waste my money om 3-4 bottles. i have 2 of the old gen 4-ad and wanted to try this. IT would not matter if you did 11oxo with it.you should still get results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad dog View Post
    This is def the question i have been answering and have not rec a reply, 4AD pricey and i don't want to waste my money om 3-4 bottles. i have 2 of the old gen 4-ad and wanted to try this. IT would not matter if you did 11oxo with it.you should still get results.
    Hey mad dog, what exactly are you looking for in regards to your question? Just trying to clarify what your asking.

    Also I asked json if he was running the 11-oxo at the same time as the 4-Ad not to insinuate that this would not produce results (it very well should). However, I wanted to point out the feeling of lethargy he was experiencing was far more likely due to the 11-oxo then the 4-Ad. The lethargy that hits 11-oxo users seems to come at different points in the cycle. If you do not believe me then let me google that for you.

    As you can see this is obviously an issue with 11-Oxo.

    Also his primary goal in running the 4-Ad was to improve libido and/or offset libido loss. He never really stated whether it worked or not in this specific area.

    Finally you should really not look at 4-Ad and expect explosive SD like gains if you plan to run it solo. It was in fact created to improve a cycle with any compound that may cause such sides as libido loss, lethargy, etc. There are very few (if no other) legal alternatives to testosterone. Yes you could likely run 4-Ad and see similar results to a standard testosterone cycle however it would be expensive. It does convert to a lower dose of testosterone which helps sustain libido and overall sense of well being when stacked with a harsher compound. If you have ever ran a lower dose of testosterone you can attest to this however you would also agree it does not give you explosive like gains.

    Hope this helps.
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    to add to what Royd said, he only ran 3-4 caps per day, and while this is an average dose, he could have tried bumping to 5 per day (split doses) to see if that helped.. everyone reacts differently to different compounds.. if everything was cookie cutter, we'd all be mass monsters walking around.

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    Look, I really wanted the 4-ad to work, I bought 3 bottle on my first order just based off the write ups.

    The lethargy was clearly from the 4-AD, I was taking morning doses to only to offset suppresion somewhat.

    Just after taking 4 capsules(4-ad) my first morning it really knocked me out, which sucked cause I had to go to work. So the next day I took 3, and it wasn't so bad, so I continued this for a week to get used to it, until I decided to go back up to 4 pills, and boom felt like I was going down and had no choice about it....odd I know, its the exact opposite of what I wanted.

    And as far as the comparing it to SD, the original 4-ad was always stronger than SD to me. I mean we are talking about testosterone, which despite what people think, it is hands down the most anabolic and potent androgen you can take!

    Nothing blows me up like test, nothing.

    4-AD (ams's version) however did nothing for me, I actually felt better when I switched over to LG's M1D. The M1-D almost immediatly improved my libido, however I didn't see any gains from it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by json75 View Post
    Look, I really wanted the 4-ad to work, I bought 3 bottle on my first order just based off the write ups.

    The lethargy was clearly from the 4-AD, I was taking morning doses to only to offset suppresion somewhat.

    Just after taking 4 capsules(4-ad) my first morning it really knocked me out, which sucked cause I had to go to work. So the next day I took 3, and it wasn't so bad, so I continued this for a week to get used to it, until I decided to go back up to 4 pills, and boom felt like I was going down and had no choice about it....odd I know, its the exact opposite of what I wanted.

    And as far as the comparing it to SD, the original 4-ad was always stronger than SD to me. I mean we are talking about testosterone, which despite what people think, it is hands down the most anabolic and potent androgen you can take!

    Nothing blows me up like test, nothing.

    4-AD (ams's version) however did nothing for me, I actually felt better when I switched over to LG's M1D. The M1-D almost immediatly improved my libido, however I didn't see any gains from it.
    Fair enough json. I'm still curious as to what exactly you were dosing the 11-oxo at and at what point you added in the 4-Ad. Again it seems highly unlikely that it was the 4-Ad and NOT the 11-oxo you were experiencing the lethargy from, but without really seeing the cycle set up its hard to say. I will take your word for it however.
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    My 11-oxo was dosed a t 3 pills a day, very modest.

    I had been on it for only 2 weeks before introducing AMS's 4-AD.

    Please, try my experiment of a single 4-5 pill dosing in the am, you'll see what I'm talking about.

    I do realize that was a hefty single dose which would likely cause the lethargy, however, I never reacted that way from the original 4-ad, or LG's m1-d.

    Thanks again.

    Truly, I would really love to see a successful new generation 4-ad like product. Why people are content with libido loss due to all these non aromatizing progesterone/DHT designer anabolics is beyond me...

    It sucks to look ripped and huge and appealing to the ladies all while having little interest.
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    I ran 4 caps a day in split doses and had NO lethargy or libido issues whatsoever. I truly think it is because you took all your pills in the morning and not in split doses, but I digress.
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    [QUOTE=Royd The Noyd;1753400]Hey mad dog, what exactly are you looking for in regards to your question? Just trying to clarify what your asking.

    Also I asked json if he was running the 11-oxo at the same time as the 4-Ad not to insinuate that this would not produce results (it very well should). However, I wanted to point out the feeling of lethargy he was experiencing was far more likely due to the 11-oxo then the 4-Ad. The lethargy that hits 11-oxo users seems to come at different points in the cycle.


    Yeah your info was act great on this topic, i just wanted to know if the ams 4-ad would produce some of the gains in strength that the old 4-ad delivered and it did that quite well.
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    I'm not sure if it would, as I stated before, I never tried the old 4AD so I cannot compare. Hopefully with the upcoming logs we are going to have started with users on this forum, some of these questions can be laid to rest.
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