Debdrobium extract in this.....

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  1. Oh lawd jesus it's a fiiirrreee! Here we go again.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by drmassien View Post
    I posted this in another thread, but thought you guys might be interested. I am concerned about the safety of craze,

    I bought a tub of craze and love it after my first experience. I've only taken it once so far, took one scoup. The focus it gave me throughout the whole day, especially mentally was amazing, and I felt pumped. I did an aerobic session with it, mostly cardio and I played football with friends. It made me a top performer in the football, and in the gym. I had great focus and energy, so much more than usual.

    But I wanted to do my research so basically I just put the ingredients on the tin into wikipedia (I know...) and a few red flags came up. Basically craze works by using PEA with a MAOI to make it potent. This is cool, so far no problem - it'll make your veins contract somewhat and elevate your blood pressure slightly, but I think that's fine. But then I saw it has an analogue of Tyramine in it.

    Now Tyramine with an MAOI can be pretty bad. It's all there on wikipedia; " The displacement of norepinephrine (noradrenaline) from neuronal storage vesicles by acute tyramine ingestion is thought to cause the vasoconstriction and increased heart rate and blood pressure of the pressor response. In severe cases, adrenergic crisis can occur."


    So this crisis does NOT sound good! I'm hoping the quantities that Craze uses for Tyramine are on the safe side; "When using a MAO inhibitor (MAOI), the intake of approximately 10 to 25 mg of tyramine is required for a severe reaction compared to 6 to 10 mg for a mild reaction"

    Also the tyramine with an MAOI can lead to a hypertensive crisis, which sounds even worse. It makes me wonder why bother with Tyramine, why run the risk of those adverse reactions which could seriously affect DS's reputation, why not just stick with Phene and MAOI alone......?

    I'm not a scientist, I'm only reporting what I found, but if there are any scientists, chemist kids etc. who could pitch in, it would be very much appreciated, I'm sure by everyone. I'm hoping the Tyr quantities are safe and that I can continue using without any problems.... but long-term health is much more important than short term gains, I think everyone values their life more than their muscles......

    So an ingredient list verses what I found out from wiki:
    the ingredients list an analogue of PEA (there are a few analogues of PEA in the list) - which is somewhat related to amphetamines, but is a separate class completely to be fair;

    n-dimethyl-b-phenylethylamine - which is Hordenine (the MAOI present)


    N-Methyltyramine (NMT) - the analogue of Tyramine which is very similar and where the problem(s) could be found......

    And there's one called N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine, which I couldn't really find much info on...... Science peeps?

    Remember, I am not a scientist, I am only reporting what I've read. I hope to be proved wrong so I can go back to taking Craze without worrying, so please chime in anyone and everyone with your thoughts, but let's try to keep it objective...
    If there are any scientists please, I'd very much like to hear from you.
    Ok I'll leave it there.

    hordenine (and i dont even think craze has much in it if any) is not a strong enough MAOI to give the problems u mention
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
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  3. Lol


    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Oh lawd jesus it's a fiiirrreee! Here we go again.
    Haha I'm sure you guys are sick of people disputing the safety etc. but I'd just rather be safe than sorry of course, thanks for the info patrick

  4. Lol you guys scared of craze must be stim noobs, I was taking the original nasty ass grape stuff at 2 scoops with 25mg ephedrine hcl and feeling great and zoned in, almost comparable to adderal

    I think a lot of the speculators must be stim sensitive

  5. Hordenine isn't a MAOI at all, although N-diethyl-b-PEA could be considered an exceptionally weak MAOBi.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    Hordenine isn't a MAOI at all, although N-diethyl-b-PEA could be considered an exceptionally weak MAOBi.


    hordenine has been marketed as one, as a combo with PEA
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    hordenine has been marketed as one, as a combo with PEA
    The non-para-OH derivative of hordenine has been studied for MAOB inhibition and it is physiologically inert in this respect (i.e. it requires an unreasonably large plasma concentration). I think people confuse selectivity with inhibition.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    The non-para-OH derivative of hordenine has been studied for MAOB inhibition and it is physiologically inert in this respect (i.e. it requires an unreasonably large plasma concentration). I think people confuse selectivity with inhibition.

    N,N-dimethyl PEA?
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  9. Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    The non-para-OH derivative of hordenine has been studied for MAOB inhibition and it is physiologically inert in this respect (i.e. it requires an unreasonably large plasma concentration). I think people confuse selectivity with inhibition.
    Do you even lumen?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    N,N-dimethyl PEA?
    Yes. I can email you the study if you'd like.
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