ephedrine on beta receptors

[John Smeton]

Patrick, Do you share Dr. Scott Connelys view the ephedrine is good for muscle building on beta receptors?

 

[staple]

just in case patrick is not familiar with his views, can you post it here? or a link to it's overview?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

is ephedrine good for muscle building in a fashion similar to clenbuterol? That is an interesting question. I have always thought it could share at least some of the muscle effects of beta2 agonists. Probably not to the same degree. Does Connelly quote any actual direct studies showing effects on muscle?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

ephedrine of course does not directly interact with beta2 receptors however it stimulates the release of catecholamines that do

 

[Royd The Noyd]

is ephedrine good for muscle building in a fashion similar to clenbuterol? That is an interesting question. I have always thought it could share at least some of the muscle effects of beta2 agonists. Probably not to the same degree. Does Connelly quote any actual direct studies showing effects on muscle?

I think there was a whole episode of bodyrx where he discusses it.

 

[John Smeton]

is ephedrine good for muscle building in a fashion similar to clenbuterol? That is an interesting question. I have always thought it could share at least some of the muscle effects of beta2 agonists. Probably not to the same degree. Does Connelly quote any actual direct studies showing effects on muscle?

I think there was a whole episode of bodyrx where he discusses it.

this I heard it on a radio show over at rx muscle and he said he took the stance ephedrine does build muscle.

 

[madchemist]

ephedrine of course does not directly interact with beta2 receptors however it stimulates the release of catecholamines that do

1R,2S-ephedrine is a potent direct beta receptor agonist.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449190

 

[Clemenza]

Subbed

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I think there was a whole episode of bodyrx where he discusses it.

and u stayed awake through the whole thing?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

1R,2S-ephedrine is a potent direct beta receptor agonist.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449190

is that the one in synthetic ephedrine tabs?

 

[madchemist]

is that the one in synthetic ephedrine tabs?

Yep

 

[Celorza]

1R,2S-ephedrine is a potent direct beta receptor agonist.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449190

Good read madchemist thanks, now...PA thoughts? and also yours madchemist, good way to dose and use for muscle building goals? Worth it? Realistic?

 

[Royd The Noyd]

and u stayed awake through the whole thing?

I listen to hear what Vince has to say lol.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Good read madchemist thanks, now...PA thoughts? and also yours madchemist, good way to dose and use for muscle building goals? Worth it? Realistic?

madchemist is the neuro guy so i will let him handle this stuff

 

[madchemist]

Good read madchemist thanks, now...PA thoughts? and also yours madchemist, good way to dose and use for muscle building goals? Worth it? Realistic?

Most of the studies which show anabolism from clenbuterol in animals use doses that would be intolerable (i.e. side effects) in humans.

However, there are some human studies which show an increase in lean muscle mass from clenbuterol in patients utilizing a ventricular assist device - not very generalizable.

Furthermore, it would be hard to extrapolate the physiological effects of clenbuterol to ephedrine since their kinetics are so different (36 hour half-life versus 3-5 hours, respectively).

 

[madchemist]

madchemist is the neuro guy so i will let him handle this stuff

I've not really explored this topic in depth, so correct me where I am wrong.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I listen to hear what Vince has to say lol.

i retired from that show a long time ago. i dont wanna talk for two hours on what the best ratios of branched chains are. or how much protein you should eat at night.

so many subjects i thought coulda been discussed. but connelly called the shots and he would only talk about what was in his comfort zone. i didnt really have that much to offer on those subjects, nor was i enthusiastic about those subjects, so i split that scene

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I've not really explored this topic in depth, so correct me where I am wrong.

one thing i know is the anabolic effects of beta2 agonists in animals are rapid and profound, but dissipate after a short period of time

i mean they actually reverse after a period of time.

 

[Celorza]

Most of the studies which show anabolism from clenbuterol in animals use doses that would be intolerable (i.e. side effects) in humans.

However, there are some human studies which show an increase in lean muscle mass from clenbuterol in patients utilizing a ventricular assist device - not very generalizable.

Furthermore, it would be hard to extrapolate the physiological effects of clenbuterol to ephedrine since their kinetics are so different (36 hour half-life versus 3-5 hours, respectively).

Well this pretty much throws it off the rack then haha, I can not bring myself to picture someone so desperate to use Clen, to build muscle, with a VAD be it R/L/ or BiVAD haha, but then again...Human kind never ceases to surprise me with their occurrences. And yeah as for the half life of ephedrine, I guess it would be hard to make assumptions on such different kinetics as you point it out. Aw well, ephedrine will remain part of my cutting arsenal only then.

 

[madchemist]

one thing i know is the anabolic effects of beta2 agonists in animals are rapid and profound, but dissipate after a short period of time

i mean they actually reverse after a period of time.

Right, receptor downregulation.

The medical world has explored the reverse, mostly in the context of congestive heart failure.

Beta1 blockers result in cardiac beta receptor upregulation, whereas alpha/beta blockers (labetalol) do not.

 

[madchemist]

I can not bring myself to picture someone so desperate to use Clen, to build muscle, with a VAD be it R/L/ or BiVAD

Clenbuterol, with the addition of a beta1 blocker, is very beneficial to cardiac tissue, directly. This is why physicians place patients who require a VAD on clenbuterol.

Beta1 agonism is what (partially) mediates dystrophic cardiac remodeling.

 

[Celorza]

Clenbuterol, with the addition of a beta1 blocker, is very beneficial to cardiac tissue, directly. This is why physicians place patients who require a VAD on clenbuterol.

Beta1 agonism is what (partially) mediates dystrophic cardiac remodeling.

True, but this is WITH a beta1 blocker, not just using clen in high dosages and a vad for building muscle mass ! It was a sardonic pun if you may haha.

 

[madchemist]

True, but this is WITH a beta1 blocker, not just using clen in high dosages and a vad for building muscle mass ! It was a sardonic pun if you may haha.

touche

 

[Royd The Noyd]

i retired from that show a long time ago. i dont wanna talk for two hours on what the best ratios of branched chains are. or how much protein you should eat at night.

so many subjects i thought coulda been discussed. but connelly called the shots and he would only talk about what was in his comfort zone. i didnt really have that much to offer on those subjects, nor was i enthusiastic about those subjects, so i split that scene

I believe it's a postponed or discontinued show now anyways. Since they launched their myotropics line or whatever it's called.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Right, receptor downregulation.

The medical world has explored the reverse, mostly in the context of congestive heart failure.

Beta1 blockers result in cardiac beta receptor upregulation, whereas alpha/beta blockers (labetalol) do not.

my thoughts on beta2 agonists are to not use them until like days before a contest or something.

and then stop. and hope that u can still respond the next time you do a contest

this obviously is directed towards competive physique athletes

 

[Celorza]

my thoughts on beta2 agonists are to not use them until like days before a contest or something.

and then stop. and hope that u can still respond the next time you do a contest

this obviously is directed towards competive physique athletes

This is actually a solid and respectable point of view, problem is that some (I think myself included sadly) people develop a psychological need for them since when used properly they do present themselves with good results, though like you mentioned, the likelihood of continued response upon repetitive use decreases and thus makes the "needing" and "abusing" of them counterproductive haha

 

[southsideguy]

Well this pretty much throws it off the rack then haha, I can not bring myself to picture someone so desperate to use Clen, to build muscle, with a VAD be it R/L/ or BiVAD haha, but then again...Human kind never ceases to surprise me with their occurrences. And yeah as for the half life of ephedrine, I guess it would be hard to make assumptions on such different kinetics as you point it out. Aw well, ephedrine will remain part of my cutting arsenal only then.

Clen is not that bad...