1 ene group to 4-dhea?

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    Is this possible?

    Having a 1-ene group on 4dhea? just looking at a flat diagram, I can't see any reason why not?

    never mind, after looking at a 3d model, I think* I can see why.

    what are the other two bonds that come off the 1 position? and why are they necessary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Is this possible?

    Having a 1-ene group on 4dhea? just looking at a flat diagram, I can't see any reason why not?

    never mind, after looking at a 3d model, I think* I can see why.

    what are the other two bonds that come off the 1 position? and why are they necessary?



    there was a diol precursor to boldenone sold once, which is almost the same thing as what you are talking about (except with a 17-ketone)

    and of course there is methy-1,4-add, which has the A ring structure you are referring to also

    the other two bonds coming off carbon 1 are connected to hydrogen atoms. carbon needs to have four bonds to be stable
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    could One be able to synthesize 1,4 dhea from 1,4-androstenediol?

    Or remove one of those carbon bonds on 4-dhea and add a ene on the one, two position??
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    Do you think its possible for
    17a methyl 1,4 androstenediol to convert into
    17a,4 di methyl estradiol?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    could One be able to synthesize 1,4 dhea from 1,4-androstenediol?

    Or remove one of those carbon bonds on 4-dhea and add a ene on the one, two position??
    the answer to your first question is no, at least not directly and expediently

    as for the second question i am not sure what you are asking
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Do you think its possible for
    17a methyl 1,4 androstenediol to convert into
    17a,4 di methyl estradiol?
    no. however it can convert into almost that (through chemical means, not necessarily biological). just without the 3-OH. Its called the dienol-phenol rearrangement. the compound formed is probably not estrogenic because it lacks the 3-OH.

    why are you asking me all this? are you just hellbent on wasting my time today? what relevance can any of this possibly have to you other than you just want to play nerdboy
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    sorry, just curious. Never know, I might break out my mr wizard chemistry set and make some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    the answer to your first question is no, at least not directly and expediently

    as for the second question i am not sure what you are asking
    Sorry, meant remove the hydrogen atom.
    Now im confusing myself, need to slow down and re group.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Sorry, meant remove the hydrogen atom.
    Now im confusing myself, need to slow down and re group.
    if you mean remove the 4,5 double bond and add a 1(2) double bond then thats not so easy

    first of all, hydrogenation of the 4,5 bond will lead to a mixture of 5 alpha and 5 beta steroids. i assume you dont want any 5 beta

    if you separated out the 5beta then you would be left with epiandrosterone. you cannot directly dehydrogenate that. you would have to oxidize it to the 3 ketone first. But before you do that you would need to protect the 17-ketone. You could protect it as a ketal, however most oxidation methods would cleave the protecting group. I figured out how to do an oxidation in a specific solvent blend that spares the ketal however (i worked on this reaction a long time when i figured out how to make 1-dhea). This same oxidation method goes on to insert the delta-1 bond. All you need to do then is deprotect the ketal

    but you may as well start from epiandrosterone, no?
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    Well Dang, if you gotta do all that.
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    good stuff here jay.I think I see where you are going.if you happen to get there.def let me know
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    if you mean remove the 4,5 double bond and add a 1(2) double bond then thats not so easy

    first of all, hydrogenation of the 4,5 bond will lead to a mixture of 5 alpha and 5 beta steroids. i assume you dont want any 5 beta

    if you separated out the 5beta then you would be left with epiandrosterone. you cannot directly dehydrogenate that. you would have to oxidize it to the 3 ketone first. But before you do that you would need to protect the 17-ketone. You could protect it as a ketal, however most oxidation methods would cleave the protecting group. I figured out how to do an oxidation in a specific solvent blend that spares the ketal however (i worked on this reaction a long time when i figured out how to make 1-dhea). This same oxidation method goes on to insert the delta-1 bond. All you need to do then is deprotect the ketal

    but you may as well start from epiandrosterone, no?
    woops i forgot a step. before getting rid of the ketal protecting group u gotta reduce the 3 ketone with borohydride. that is if your target is 1-dhea and not 1-adione
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    btw does anyone know where i can buy 4-dhea powder? not in kilo quantities but like ten grams or so
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    I bet eric from pp does, or one of those guys at ams or forerunner labs do

    I'm just small potatoes, like the skin shaved off a potato small. tiny. insignificant. but I have dreams!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    btw does anyone know where i can buy 4-dhea powder? not in kilo quantities but like ten grams or so
    there are quite a few places but I'm sure you know of them already
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    I bet eric from pp does, or one of those guys at ams or forerunner labs do

    I'm just small potatoes, like the skin shaved off a potato small. tiny. insignificant. but I have dreams!
    these guys know where to get kilos from china but i was wondering if anyone retails smaller amounts in the us
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    Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    there are quite a few places but I'm sure you know of them already
    if i knew than why am i asking?

    i dont know. who sells raw powder in the US?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    if i knew than why am i asking?

    i dont know. who sells raw powder in the US?
    ah I missed the US part.I knew of a decent company years ago located here in the US but can't recall their name at the moment.if it comes to me I'll pm you.
  

  
 

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