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    Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    Einstein was never a theist.It is a common myth.Check your evidence more carefully.Newton,Boyle and Faraday weren't in an age that could have accepted and actually thought of this belief.Did you know that Descartes was an atheist.He was threatened to change I think therefore I am to I think therfore I am therefore God under pretty unscrupulous circumstances.

    Did I ever say that I 100% think we're not created?Nope because I would never say it because it's not provable.It would not be logical.Just how the belief in a single God,whats more the Christian God is the one true God is not logical.

    None of you creationists have answered my question about how your religious beliefs is just a matter of geography.But oh no of course that one true God would have come to you some way or another right.

    If we understand the mechanics we're getting closer to the answer.If it ends up being God I'll believe but don't try and belittle the guys in labcoats who are trying to look for an answer instead of blindly saying this is what we should believe because we can't answer the question and apologise for being human every Sunday.Anyone who does that has a screw loose.
    But you've got me wrong. I am not a Christian nor do I belittle guys in labcoats. I'm a scientist by background. My honours degree is biochemistry, so please don't take this as an attack on science or any work that attempts to understand the world in which we live. My point only is that we cannot discount the existence of God because we as humans have a process for understanding the world around us. I just don't think science and God are mutually exclusive...that's all.

    And the point about Einstein...its not a myth....Einstein didn't believe in a personal God, but he did believe in one due his theory of relativity pointing towards the Universe having a beginning. I've pasted his quote regarding this below...

    "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."



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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    But you've got me wrong. I am not a Christian nor do I belittle guys in labcoats. I'm a scientist by background. My honours degree is biochemistry, so please don't take this as an attack on science or any work that attempts to understand the world in which we live. My point only is that we cannot discount the existence of God because we as humans have a process for understanding the world around us. I just don't think science and God are mutually exclusive...that's all.

    And the point about Einstein...its not a myth....Einstein didn't believe in a personal God, but he did believe in one due his theory of relativity pointing towards the Universe having a beginning. I've pasted his quote regarding this below...

    "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."


    Deism is completely dfferent to theism or atheism.Just because you believe in a force doesn't mean it's a God.He attests to that.Through his compendeum of writing.Some of the major quotes is in ''The God Delusion''.


    According to Einstein, God is "a product of human weakness''.Deist,maybe ,theist ,never.
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    agreed. Einstein was not a theist by any means. Eventhough the universe had a beginning, it was not pointing towards an involved creator. It is 2 entirely different concepts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    How is this NOT a justified question given the progression of this thread? Given the previous comments from the Atheist crowd attempting to "prove" we evolved from apes, shouldnt they provide a smoking gun and back up such "proof" with scientific fact?
    ok you win. i am unable to give you guys a comprehensive education on the theory of evolution therefore it is a myth or doesnt exist and the bible is correct

    give me a break. u sit back and throw these lame stones at science while offering no evidence to support your religious beliefs on the universe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Why are you arguing about evolution? Its clear that noone knows, even in the scientific community of what really occured. You guys are just putting up the same arguments and rebuttles as everyone else. This kind of discussion will literally go nowhere unless evolution is either disproved or regarded as fact. Of which neither has occured. Yes, people have done studies and experiements yet these have been flawed in more ways than one, often not recreating the exact conditions on the earth as it was, or producing the same outcomes as it was.

    And yes, gravity is just a theory however evolution is a lot different. Gravity can be measured, it effects can be witnessed whereas evolution cannot be. Compare the two all you like, it doesnt mean everything that is a theory should be taken as fact.
    evolution can be pretty accurately measured through genetic analyses actually
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    Absence of understanding is NOT proof of god. Books are not in themselves proof of the text they contain.

    The argument that the bible or any other religious text is proof of god simply because they exist is preposterous.

    If you'd like to base your life on unrepeatable magic tricks done and written about before the average person knew the earth revolves around the sun be my guest.

    I don't deny a possibility of god but anyone who thinks they know the truth about that is deluded at least if not plain crazy.

    In my experience, those who reserve a place for the possibility of god are typically decent people, while those convinced of gods existence thinking they know gods thoughts and wishes tend to be arrogant, bigoted, irrational people.

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    To be clear: No one is attemptring to make that case.

    Christians flat out ADMIT we have no "tangible proof" as faith is the cornerstone and at the epicenter of our existence. It is who we are and what we ascribe to beliefs-wise.

    Conversely, Atheists that take the position of denying the existence of a Creator/GOD have to hang their hats on tangible proof provided by scientific fact as faith is irrelevant to them.

    Since no such proof exists, an Agnostic position makes more sense (think about it). To be so convicted about the NON-exisitence of a Creator/God, without scientific proof, is a quantum leap of faith in and of itself, is it not?

    Similarly, Christians take a leap of faith that God exists, as for us, we have a sort of spirtitual proof. Our proof cannot be explained away as fact or tangible evidence either; but that is the essense of faith.

    The dymanic of faith is not a luxury or cop out, it is just reality for us.

    Christians do not claim to be able to provide scientific factual proof of a Creator/God BUT Atheists take the stance on claimning anything and everything can be explained away thru/by science.

    So, then, DO IT is all we're saying. It can't be done. So, when an Atheist attempts to explain away a GOD-LESS creation, they will always fall short.

    At the end fo the day, ANY HUMAN'S belief comes down to adopting/fostering a personal view of a THEORY. For a Christian, theory becomes FACT to US when we accept the doctrines of Christianity as it makes sense to US and provides MORE proof than science can for an Atheist and hence, becomes fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    Absence of understanding is NOT proof of god. Books are not in themselves proof of the text they contain.

    The argument that the bible or any other religious text is proof of god simply because they exist is preposterous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    Deism is completely dfferent to theism or atheism.Just because you believe in a force doesn't mean it's a God.He attests to that.Through his compendeum of writing.Some of the major quotes is in ''The God Delusion''.


    According to Einstein, God is "a product of human weakness''.Deist,maybe ,theist ,never.
    I know what deism is....my point is that you can all it a life force or mother nature, but the implication is the same, ie an intelligent force being that designed, created and ordered the Universe. The term God is a word and like all words its symbolises a deep meaning by being associated with it. You can attach whatever word you want to the underlying mean.

    Interestingly you've quotes from 'The God Delusion'....which the author of admitted the following in an interview on the BBC called Hard Talk...

    that we were likely created by other intelligent beings, aliens of sorts, and left here on Earth.

    So when it all comes down to it.....most believe in some intelligent being or beings or life force having created and ordered creation. Some 'rational' individuals call them aliens whilst others a life force and others a God. I suppose believing in aliens or a life force as a creator frees you from the having to act within the framework of religion...you are then able to define you're own right, wrong and morality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    We are not hear to teach you a science which is well documented. you are starting to be a jerk

    Where is this documentation? I'd like to learn. I'am not trying to be a jerk but if you wanna tell me I'am wrong and not educate me otherwise whose really being the jerk here? If your offended in any way it's only because you take offense to someone not agreeing with you. In science you have to take that emotion out of it don't you? You have debates and you don't get offended when someone disagrees with you. If you got offended by every opposing view how is your research ever going to progress? If every influencial scientist that ever existed let that person or persons who called them crazy and dumb for their ideas affect them.. well..they never would of been labled influencial.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post

    At the end fo the day, ANY HUMAN'S belief comes down to adopting/fostering a personal view of a THEORY. For a Christian, theory becomes FACT to US when we accept the doctrines of Christianity as it makes sense to US and provides MORE proof than science can for an Atheist and hence, becomes fact.
    so why cant theory become FACT for the atheist too?

    Just takes one saying "I am right and it is fact and that is all there is to it"
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    I know what deism is....my point is that you can all it a life force or mother nature, but the implication is the same, ie an intelligent force.being that designed, created and ordered the Universe. The term God is a word and like all words its symbolises a deep meaning by being associated with it. Interestingly you've quotes from 'The God Delusion'....which the author of admitted the following in an interview on the BBC called Hard Talk...

    that we were likely created by other intelligent beings, aliens of sorts, and left here on Earth.

    So when it all comes down to it.....most believe in some intelligent being or beings or life force having created and ordered creation. Some 'rational' individuals call them aliens whilst others a life force and others a God. I suppose believing in aliens or a life force as a creator free you from the having to act within the framework of religion...you are then able to define you're own right, wrong and morality.

    so before god created creation (as you put it) what was he doing? Hanging out in a vacuum? Or did god spontaneously start to exist at one time? And if that can happen, than why cant the universe spontaneously start to exist (sans god). Sounds just as plausible
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    Where is this documentation? I'd like to learn. I'am not trying to be a jerk but if you wanna tell me I'am wrong and not educate me otherwise whose really being the jerk here? If your offended in any way it's only because you take offense to someone not agreeing with you. In science you have to take that emotion out of it don't you? You have debates and you don't get offended when someone disagrees with you. If you got offended by every opposing view how is your research ever going to progress? If every influencial scientist that ever existed let that person or persons who called them crazy and dumb for their ideas affect them.. well..they never would of been labled influencial.
    any university in the united states offers science classes that will teach you the science of evolution. If really would like to learn than sign up for a course. Its a very detailed and complicated subject and beyond something i can summarize in a post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Part of the problem with this debate is that anyone can turn anything around and we remain at square one.

    I'm still waiting for the evidence of creationism.

    What are some FACTS of creationism? Hint: Won't accept Genesis as evidence or fact.


    And here is the deflection. Yes you could turn things around and deflect it to the opposing view but that's not making a defense for your belief. All it does is take the pressure off you. If someone is so confident about their belief they should be able to tell me why and EASILY tell me why they believe what they do. I'am not trying to discuss this in a evolution vs creation way. I'am strictly talking science. I just wanna know why "YOU" believe what you believe. I've told you why I don't support macroevolution. The research and evidence we have available cannot prove it. The "tree of life" Darwin designed is full of broken branches. To even have drawed a Image that looked like a tree is funny. It is only theory, it's not scientific fact. If someone is gonna talk about it as a fact then they aren't speaking science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    And here is the deflection. Yes you could turn things around and deflect it to the opposing view but that's not making a defense for your belief. All it does is take the pressure off you. If someone is so confident about their belief they should be able to tell me why and EASILY tell me why they believe what they do. I'am not trying to discuss this in a evolution vs creation way. I'am strictly talking science. I just wanna know why "YOU" believe what you believe. I've told you why I don't support macroevolution. The research and evidence we have available cannot prove it. The "tree of life" Darwin designed is full of broken branches. To even have drawed a Image that looked like a tree is funny. It is only theory, it's not scientific fact. If someone is gonna talk about it as a fact then they aren't speaking science.
    It is by far the best theory we have to explain the diversity of life on earth. Because it is not perfect you find justification for saying it is no more valid than creationism

    A very plausible explanation for why there are "holes" in it is because we have not been able to identify all the evidence needed to patch those holes up. Its sort of hard when you are looking for things that have not been roaming the earth for millions of years
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    And here is the deflection. Yes you could turn things around and deflect it to the opposing view but that's not making a defense for your belief. All it does is take the pressure off you. If someone is so confident about their belief they should be able to tell me why and EASILY tell me why they believe what they do. I'am not trying to discuss this in a evolution vs creation way. I'am strictly talking science. I just wanna know why "YOU" believe what you believe. I've told you why I don't support macroevolution. The research and evidence we have available cannot prove it. The "tree of life" Darwin designed is full of broken branches. To even have drawed a Image that looked like a tree is funny. It is only theory, it's not scientific fact. If someone is gonna talk about it as a fact then they aren't speaking science.
    Where has someone talked about it as fact? If you are only going to accept fact you won't accept the theory of evolution. Of COURSE we can't prove it and if you need it to be proved then you're out of luck. It has scientific evidence backing it up, but it isn't an established can't be proven wrong fact. Hence calling it a theory. A theory is something unproven, but with scientific evidence. It's really not as complicated as you're making it. If you're waiting on someone who believes in evolution to show undeniable fact of it then you're going to be waiting a long time, it simply doesn't exist. Anyone who knows what a theory is should already understand that.

    Evolution: Theory with scientific evidence supporting it, but still just a theory.

    Creationism: No scientific evidence supporting it, really old book where people tell the same stories in different ways supporting it.

    Honestly you keep asking people to do something that cannot be done. None of us can prove evolution. If I could right now I wouldn't share it on AM, I'd go win the Nobel. The reason for the bolded was to show how the need for undeniable facts can't be used to automatically dismiss something as having no merit....unless you want it to dismiss creationism and evolution.

    Edit: What PA said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    so before god created creation (as you put it) what was he doing? Hanging out in a vacuum? Or did god spontaneously start to exist at one time? And if that can happen, than why cant the universe spontaneously start to exist (sans god). Sounds just as plausible
    If the creation could understand God then God would cease to be God for soon as something understands something he has a certain mastery over it and if something is mastered then it is not God by definition. God is uncreated, transcending time and space. It's impossible for us to understand as our experiences are limited entirely within the framework of created dimensions. How we perceive things is in turn entirely influenced by the structure and function of receiving organs and the neurochemical structures in the brain. So how can a created mind fathom an uncreated being....its impossible. Temporal, causative sequence of events don't apply to God. How can the creation understand God? Could a piece of music, art or technology actively understand its creator or does the creation simply reveal particular characteristics or attributes of the creator. Quantum mechanics for example does not behave 'rationally'. How can light be both a wave and a particle? How can one sub-atomic particle exist in two places at the same time? So you can't simply apply your current frames of reference to a whole other reality and understand it.

    All man can do is come to know God through his attributes which he has manifested in his creation and revealed in the form of religion. Finally God transcends time and space and therefore is not subject to either, so Him past, present and future is the same. For Him there was no before the universe was created.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    If the creation could understand God then God would cease to be God for soon as something understands something he has a certain mastery over it and if something is mastered then it is not God by definition. God is uncreated, transcending time and space. It's impossible for us to understand as our experiences are limited entirely within the framework of created dimensions. How we perceive things is in turn entirely influenced by the structure and function of receiving organs and the neurochemical structures in the brain. So how can a created mind fathom an uncreated being....its impossible. Temporal, causative sequence of events don't apply to God. How can the creation understand God? Could a piece of music, art or technology actively understand its creator or does the creation simply reveal particular characteristics or attributes of the creator. Quantum mechanics for example does not behave 'rationally'. How can light be both a wave and a particle? How can one sub-atomic particle exist in two places at the same time? So you can't simply apply your current frames of reference to a whole other reality and understand it.

    All man can do is come to know God through his attributes which he has manifested in his creation and revealed in the form of religion. Finally God transcends time and space and therefore is not subject to either, so Him past, present and future is the same. For Him there was no before the universe was created.
    what a convenient explanation
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321

    If the creation could understand God then God would cease to be God for soon as something understands something he has a certain mastery over it and if something is mastered then it is not God by definition. God is uncreated, transcending time and space. It's impossible for us to understand as our experiences are limited entirely within the framework of created dimensions. How we perceive things is in turn entirely influenced by the structure and function of receiving organs and the neurochemical structures in the brain. So how can a created mind fathom an uncreated being....its impossible. Temporal, causative sequence of events don't apply to God. How can the creation understand God? Could a piece of music, art or technology actively understand its creator or does the creation simply reveal particular characteristics or attributes of the creator. Quantum mechanics for example does not behave 'rationally'. How can light be both a wave and a particle? How can one sub-atomic particle exist in two places at the same time? So you can't simply apply your current frames of reference to a whole other reality and understand it.

    All man can do is come to know God through his attributes which he has manifested in his creation and revealed in the form of religion. Finally God transcends time and space and therefore is not subject to either, so Him past, present and future is the same. For Him there was no before the universe was created.
    So we cannot understand it? Well you jus explained it.....how could you do so if us mere mortals cannot understand it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    If you'd like to base your life on unrepeatable magic tricks done and written about before the average person knew the earth revolves around the sun be my guest.
    I love this.. just beautifull!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    So we cannot understand it? Well you jus explained it.....how could you do so if us mere mortals cannot understand it?
    he understands it because he has been touched by the holy spirit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Where has someone talked about it as fact? If you are only going to accept fact you won't accept the theory of evolution. Of COURSE we can't prove it and if you need it to be proved then you're out of luck. It has scientific evidence backing it up, but it isn't an established can't be proven wrong fact. Hence calling it a theory. A theory is something unproven, but with scientific evidence. It's really not as complicated as you're making it. If you're waiting on someone who believes in evolution to show undeniable fact of it then you're going to be waiting a long time, it simply doesn't exist. Anyone who knows what a theory is should already understand that.

    Evolution: Theory with scientific evidence supporting it, but still just a theory.

    Creationism: No scientific evidence supporting it, really old book where people tell the same stories in different ways supporting it.

    Honestly you keep asking people to do something that cannot be done. None of us can prove evolution. If I could right now I wouldn't share it on AM, I'd go win the Nobel. The reason for the bolded was to show how the need for undeniable facts can't be used to automatically dismiss something as having no merit....unless you want it to dismiss creationism and evolution.

    Edit: What PA said.

    If you believe in something, you must believe it to be truth right?

    I think the scientific evidence of evolution is getting ahead of itself. It's like watching 1 minute of a 120 minute film and telling me what the whole movie was about based on that 1 minute that you watched or reading 1 page of a 500 page book and telling me what the book was about. If someone told you what that movie or book was about would you believe them after finding out they watched 1 minute of the film or read 1 page of the book? I don't think you would.

    I didn't think the answer was complicated, I thought it was exactly what you wrote "NONE of us can prove evolution". My point was if someone so passionately believes in evolution they should be able to tell me why and show me SCIENTIFIC evidence why they do. Like you said, the truth is , there is no evidence. It cannot be proven. It is more related to faith than science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    he understands it because he has been touched by the holy spirit
    lol....No not really. I'm not a Christian. It's quite simple really. I don't understand God, but what I know about God has been revealed to me by God in manner that I can understand. It's not that you chaps can't understand it..its fairly simple....you just have to accept that there are different types of knowledge. Sense knowledge, the one that can be empirically tested and proven and another knowledge that doesn't concern the senses. This particular knowledge is revealed to us because we can't come by it any other way. It transcends the senses. Concepts such as justice and honour exist and are real as the materials forms around us even though they have no material form themselves. This concerns a different aspect of being a human.

    This is where belief comes in. You may mock faith or belief, but realise that even empirically based sciences rely on first principles. A set of unproven beliefs that serve as the basis upon which you can begin unraveling logical thought.

    There is an element of blind belief in everything. But that belief is not blind per say. It is based upon on a certain evidence, logic and analysis. This is the same for both science and the belief in God.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    lol....No not really. I'm not a Christian. It's quite simple really. I don't understand God, but what I know about God has been revealed to me by God in manner that I can understand. It's not that you chaps can't understand it..its fairly simple....you just have to accept that there are different types of knowledge. Sense knowledge, the one that can be empirically tested and proven and another knowledge that doesn't concern the senses. This particular knowledge is revealed to us because we can't come by it any other way. It transcends the senses. Concepts such as justice and honour exist and are real as the materials forms around us even though they have no material form themselves. This concerns a different aspect of being a human.

    This is where belief comes in. You may mock faith or belief, but realise that even empirically based sciences rely on first principles. A set of unproven beliefs that serve as the basis upon which you can begin unraveling logical thought.

    There is an element of blind belief in everything. But that belief is not blind per say. It is based upon on a certain evidence, logic and analysis. This is the same for both science and the belief in God.
    so you "understand" that which you claim cannot be understood? interesting
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    If you believe in something, you must believe it to be truth right?

    I think the scientific evidence of evolution is getting ahead of itself. It's like watching 1 minute of a 120 minute film and telling me what the whole movie was about based on that 1 minute that you watched or reading 1 page of a 500 page book and telling me what the book was about. If someone told you what that movie or book was about would you believe them after finding out they watched 1 minute of the film or read 1 page of the book? I don't think you would.

    I didn't think the answer was complicated, I thought it was exactly what you wrote "NONE of us can prove evolution". My point was if someone so passionately believes in evolution they should be able to tell me why and show me SCIENTIFIC evidence why they do. Like you said, the truth is , there is no evidence. It cannot be proven. It is more related to faith than science.
    I can't tell if you're being purposefully obtuse or not. I NEVER said no evidence exists, no idea where you're getting that from. This should help, happy reading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    lol....No not really. I'm not a Christian. It's quite simple really. I don't understand God, but what I know about God has been revealed to me by God in manner that I can understand. It's not that you chaps can't understand it..its fairly simple....you just have to accept that there are different types of knowledge. Sense knowledge, the one that can be empirically tested and proven and another knowledge that doesn't concern the senses. This particular knowledge is revealed to us because we can't come by it any other way. It transcends the senses. Concepts such as justice and honour exist and are real as the materials forms around us even though they have no material form themselves. This concerns a different aspect of being a human.

    This is where belief comes in. You may mock faith or belief, but realise that even empirically based sciences rely on first principles. A set of unproven beliefs that serve as the basis upon which you can begin unraveling logical thought.

    There is an element of blind belief in everything. But that belief is not blind per say. It is based upon on a certain evidence, logic and analysis. This is the same for both science and the belief in God.
    Honor and justice are societal constructs and, as such, have no "truth" to them. Just like saying good and evil, they don't exist they are merely our perception of the world and not it's reality.

    If your intention was to lead us to conclude that god is an idea created by man that doesn't exist in any real way, then you have succeeded admirably.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    lol....No not really. I'm not a Christian. It's quite simple really. I don't understand God, but what I know about God has been revealed to me by God in manner that I can understand. It's not that you chaps can't understand it..its fairly simple....you just have to accept that there are different types of knowledge. Sense knowledge, the one that can be empirically tested and proven and another knowledge that doesn't concern the senses. This particular knowledge is revealed to us because we can't come by it any other way. It transcends the senses. Concepts such as justice and honour exist and are real as the materials forms around us even though they have no material form themselves. This concerns a different aspect of being a human.

    This is where belief comes in. You may mock faith or belief, but realise that even empirically based sciences rely on first principles. A set of unproven beliefs that serve as the basis upon which you can begin unraveling logical thought.

    There is an element of blind belief in everything. But that belief is not blind per say. It is based upon on a certain evidence, logic and analysis. This is the same for both science and the belief in God.

    so you had a vision. but while other peoples visions (like the son of sam, mohammed, charles manson) are delusional, yours is real. Because you know it to be real. Its all starting to make sense to me now
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    so the cliff notes are, we're not sure if green coffee extract evolved or was created by a higher power?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    so the cliff notes are, we're not sure if green coffee extract evolved or was created by a higher power?
    I'm going with higher power, a good cup of coffee is heavenly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I'm going with higher power, a good cup of coffee is heavenly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    I know what deism is....my point is that you can all it a life force or mother nature, but the implication is the same, ie an intelligent force being that designed, created and ordered the Universe. The term God is a word and like all words its symbolises a deep meaning by being associated with it. You can attach whatever word you want to the underlying mean.

    Interestingly you've quotes from 'The God Delusion'....which the author of admitted the following in an interview on the BBC called Hard Talk...

    that we were likely created by other intelligent beings, aliens of sorts, and left here on Earth.

    So when it all comes down to it.....most believe in some intelligent being or beings or life force having created and ordered creation. Some 'rational' individuals call them aliens whilst others a life force and others a God. I suppose believing in aliens or a life force as a creator frees you from the having to act within the framework of religion...you are then able to define you're own right, wrong and morality.
    immediate link now despite their being a chapter where he says you cannot doscount that if theres a possiblity for God.

    If there can be a God there can be aliens.
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    While I can genuinely appreciate the frustration of an Atheist trying to comprehend what seems to be the incomprehensible, what you must understand is that to a Christian, our minds cannot grasp the boundadries or workings of what we consider ot be an infinte God. That said, a devout Atheist denouncing the possibility for the existence of a God MUST provide an intelligent argument based on finite wisdom since we are finite beings.

    Again not a cop out, or a delflection, just framing our point of view.
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    Sid: That image is offensive and unnecessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    If you believe in something, you must believe it to be truth right?

    I think the scientific evidence of evolution is getting ahead of itself. It's like watching 1 minute of a 120 minute film and telling me what the whole movie was about based on that 1 minute that you watched or reading 1 page of a 500 page book and telling me what the book was about. If someone told you what that movie or book was about would you believe them after finding out they watched 1 minute of the film or read 1 page of the book? I don't think you would.

    I didn't think the answer was complicated, I thought it was exactly what you wrote "NONE of us can prove evolution". My point was if someone so passionately believes in evolution they should be able to tell me why and show me SCIENTIFIC evidence why they do. Like you said, the truth is , there is no evidence. It cannot be proven. It is more related to faith than science.
    Waiting for this geneticisit friend of Patrick's.

    Here is our answer to the thread

    Is there evidence for God?

    No

    Goodnight Folks!

    Is there evidence for evolution?

    Yes and we continue to compile it.

    Goodnight everybody.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Sid: That image is offensive and unnecessary.
    Much like religion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    While I can genuinely appreciate the frustration of an Atheist trying to comprehend what seems to be the incomprehensible, what you must understand is that to a Christian, our minds cannot grasp the boundadries or workings of what we consider ot be an infinte God. That said, a devout Atheist denouncing the possibility for the existence of a God MUST provide an intelligent argument based on finite wisdom since we are finite beings.

    Again not a cop out, or a delflection, just framing our point of view.
    Get out of here.You understand as little as we do.You guys just faith as answer which isn't.

    You shift the burden of proof to us when we state we don't believe which is wrong as the burden of proof lies on you.You claim proof so prove it.You cna't?Well then welcome to an atheist perspective of knowing nothing about the universe than what science lets us know.


    An intelligent and educated atheist will never say there is not the possibility of a God they will just say that the human trend is that we creat myth's to appease out spiritual sides.Stating one God to be the only God is irrational when we need to consider the 2000 odd Gods humanity has imagined throughout the ages.


    Btw none of you theists have bothered to answer my question that your faith is an accident of geography.Anybody.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidoious View Post
    Much like religion.
    Right on
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    Are you an Atheist? If so, u just contradicted yourself LOL

    By Definition: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist



    Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    An intelligent and educated atheist will never say there is not the possibility of a God they will just say that the human trend is that we creat myth's to appease out spiritual sides.Stating one God to be the only God is irrational when we need to consider the 2000 odd Gods humanity has imagined throughout the ages.

    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Are you an Atheist? If so, u just contradicted yourself LOL

    By Definition: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist
    this i can at least agree with. An agnostic says "i don't know whether there is or isn't, and don't particularly care either" where atheists have as strong a belief in the lack of a god as religious people do of the existence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Are you an Atheist? If so, u just contradicted yourself LOL

    By Definition: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist
    Nope.YOu can be an atheist and still logically feel that despite being nearly 100% sure that there is no God that there may indeed be a slim chance.It's illogical that it is any of the Gods mankind has creator but there is indeed the possibility of a creator.

    Remember and atheist is logical.You clearly know very little on the subject if your telling me I'm not an atheist.

    I cannot prove there is not a God therefore I must hold my conviction that there is no God but remain skeptical all at the same time.
  

  
 

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