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    also see here, for the pub med study regarding chlorogenic acid found in green coffee beans and its effect on fat loss and glucose metabolism

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3267522/
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    I will post a pubmed abstract showing god doesn't exist. Pubmed knows all
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I will post a pubmed abstract showing god doesn't exist. Pubmed knows all
    You just had to keep it stirred up
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    Arch Intern Med. 1999 Oct 25;159(19):2273-8.
    A randomized, controlled trial of the effects of remote, intercessory prayer on outcomes in patients admitted to the coronary care unit.

    Harris WS, Gowda M, Kolb JW, Strychacz CP, Vacek JL, Jones PG, Forker A, O'Keefe JH, McCallister BD.
    Source

    Mid America Heart Institute, Saint Luke's Hospital, Kansas City, MO, USA.

    Erratum in

    • Arch Intern Med 2000 Jun 26;160(12):1878.


    Abstract

    CONTEXT:

    Intercessory prayer (praying for others) has been a common response to sickness for millennia, but it has received little scientific attention. The positive findings of a previous controlled trial of intercessory prayer have yet to be replicated.
    OBJECTIVE:

    To determine whether remote, intercessory prayer for hospitalized, cardiac patients will reduce overall adverse events and length of stay.
    DESIGN:

    Randomized, controlled, double-blind, prospective, parallel-group trial.
    SETTING:

    Private, university-associated hospital.
    PATIENTS:

    Nine hundred ninety consecutive patients who were newly admitted to the coronary care unit (CCU).
    INTERVENTION:

    At the time of admission, patients were randomized to receive remote, intercessory prayer (prayer group) or not (usual care group). The first names of patients in the prayer group were given to a team of outside intercessors who prayed for them daily for 4 weeks. Patients were unaware that they were being prayed for, and the intercessors did not know and never met the patients.
    MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

    The medical course from CCU admission to hospital discharge was summarized in a CCU course score derived from blinded, retrospective chart review.
    RESULTS:

    Compared with the usual care group (n = 524), the prayer group (n = 466) had lower mean +/- SEM weighted (6.35 +/- 0.26 vs 7.13 +/- 0.27; P=.04) and unweighted (2.7 +/- 0.1 vs 3.0 +/- 0.1; P=.04) CCU course scores. Lengths of CCU and hospital stays were not different.
    CONCLUSIONS:

    Remote, intercessory prayer was associated with lower CCU course scores. This result suggests that prayer may be an effective adjunct to standard medical care.

    Comment in



    PMID: 10547166 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Pat, don't get weak on me now, your dry ball-breaking hilarious sarcasm married with hardcore, black and white, genuine say it like it is attitude is why I respect you. A rare thing for me on this board as many sell out so easily. Now apologize for being trying to be respectful. It's so unbecoming of you!



    Back OT please............

    that statement wasnt for u. it was just in case there was a god and a jesus. dont want them pissed at me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Geo: If that's you in the avatar, I'm gonna mind my P's and Q's for my own safety. If not, I'm about to own ur azz. LOL (j/k!)

    On a serious note, I can appreciate yours and the perspective Pat just relayed as well. It's the convicted Atheists adamant that there is no God that get to me. Like, how can you be so sure, where is the proof? Many of these cats aren't like the Pat Arnold's of the world so science is NOT what they are even hanging their hats on! It's more like a misplaced, pure disdain for the very thought a "GOD". Let me explain...

    Look, I've met many of these types and the vast majority base their views on supercharged anger and/or having a run of bad luck/life occurrences and they need a scapegoat. They are bitter and vengeful. By denouncing God, they feel they are getting even or something LOL
    .
    they are like those vegan types that condemn meat as being deadly and believe that non-organic grown foods are evil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    You cant prove a negative.

    Asking someone to prove that god doesnt exist is like asking someone to prove that spiderman isnt the love child of sonic the hedgehog and one of the power puff girls.

    The burden of proof doesnt fall on the atheists but on the religious ones making the existence of god claims. The burden always lies on those who are making the claims. Problem is there is no proof. It all is about having blind faith, which is why you cant really have a debate about his existence or not. Its either or believe or dont.
    but atheists say god doesnt exist definitively. that is a claim. its different than saying there is no evidence for the existence of a god
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    I am very scientifically minded but I look at it this way, when science creates life I'll lend the atheists my ear, until then... I am a doubting Thomas(my middle name) I want proof either way. right now in my opinion you cannot disprove an intelligent design in the universe. I am in good company here are a few quotes from a well respected man of science Albert EinsteinAlbert Einstein
    "
    i dont have a problem with this opinion. I more or less share it. But its a long way from believing in a certain religion as the explanation.

    oh, and now you have to contemplate who designed the intelligent designer. It seems that at one point in time everything had to arise out of nothing with no one behind it. Or, time and space has realities which we are unable to grasp with our little minds
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    Not sure who you are referring to as I have yet to see ONE disrespectful comment casted by anyone anywhere. This thread has remained as respectful and civil the entire time and amongst good dudes that all get along outside of our religious differences.

    FWIW: It's posts like yours that stir the pot.

    Be well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Younglifter16 View Post
    lmao @ a theist getting offended (by a sarcastic tongue-in-cheek comment) enough to derail an informative thread into a pompous justification for his religion. I guess this thread is dead now, good while it lasted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    As far as trying to explain faith to an Atheist, this is what I tell my Atheist buds....

    I can't and never will be able to prove that Chocolate is delicious.

    Once you try it though, you will understand.

    For me, it is a FACT that chocolate is yummy; despite this lacking "scientific" fact.

    Where's my proof? In my heart and soul. I get happy and all my problems go away when I am eating chocolate.

    Can a scientist prove chocolate is delish? Nope.

    Does that mean it's not? Nope

    Is chocolate for everyone? Nope. But for the vast majority of us, it's pure undeniable bliss.

    Sounds ridiculously elementary (and it is), but it keeps it simple and seems to help them understand and we always get a good laugh out of the pathetic analogy.

    I thought I'd add a little levity to this thread since these threads never ever end well.

    PS: Geo: What's with the mask? LMAO

    the good taste of chocolate can be pretty adequately explained by biology and the influence of natural selection on what we find tasty and not tasty. god didnt grant us the ability to like the taste of certain foods, they were acquired over eons
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    LMAO................. dear LORD!

    Touche


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the good taste of chocolate can be pretty adequately explained by biology and the influence of natural selection on what we find tasty and not tasty. god didnt grant us the ability to like the taste of certain foods, they were acquired over eons
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms.

    And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., Materialism and Astronomy - are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset. -CS Lewis


    Someone once said that if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance. But when we find the text of Hamlet, we don't wonder whether it came from chance and monkeys. Why then does the atheist use that incredibly improbable explanation for the universe? Clearly, because it is his only chance of remaining an atheist. At this point we need a psychological explanation of the atheist rather than a logical explanation of the universe. -Peter Kreeft


    nothing you say supports the use of religion as an explanation for things that man has yet to adequately explain. YOu simply point at things that we dont yet understand and say "look!! loook!! science has failed so this has to be god!!"

    they used to think solar eclipses were an act of god too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Younglifter16 View Post
    lmao @ a theist getting offended (by a sarcastic tongue-in-cheek comment) enough to derail an informative thread into a pompous justification for his religion. I guess this thread is dead now, good while it lasted.
    i dont think anyone here is an atheist first of all (its quite different than agnostic) nor do i think anyone got offended. u dont need to be insulted or offended to be interested in debate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    i dont have a problem with this opinion. I more or less share it. But its a long way from believing in a certain religion as the explanation.

    oh, and now you have to contemplate who designed the intelligent designer. It seems that at one point in time everything had to arise out of nothing with no one behind it. Or, time and space has realities which we are unable to grasp with our little minds
    I think that the issue that we have with the whole something out of nothing is that we are linear beings with a start and a finish so we look at things a beginning and an end, I think the universe is circular, there is neither a begining nor an end there just "is" I think that is what we cannot wrap our heads around
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    I am an atheist; I know that what I will experience after death will be the same as what I experienced before life.
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    Please explain where this unwavering committed conviction of thought comes from. You are afterall, basing your eternity on it (if there is such a thing right? What if there is?).

    You seem to know something the greatest scientists in the world have yet to be able to provide proof of. In an effort to keep the thread fair, Theists have not been able to prove their point either.




    Quote Originally Posted by sidoious View Post
    I am an atheist; I know that what I will experience after death will be the same as what I experienced before life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Please explain where this unwavering committed conviction of thought comes from. You are afterall, basing your eternity on it (if there is such a thing right? What if there is?).

    You seem to know something the greatest scientists in the world have yet to be able to provide proof of. In an effort to keep the thread fair, Theists have not been able to prove their point either.
    More of a hope of mine I guess. All the things I enjoy doing on Earth seem to be forbidden in Heaven. Plus, if things last forever, they become less pleasurable. Most of what we enjoy in our lives derives from the knowledge that it will one day end. Tell me of one species on Earth that resurrects when it dies; if you can't, I feel safe to assume there is a universal finality. My atheistic mindset provides me with more pleasure than indentured servitude to religion would. I feel that this is my one shot at life, and there will be no other; therefore I should make the most out of it while I still can.

    My distrust of religion and worship of science can be summed up by a couple examples. Religious-minded (influenced? dominated?) politicians who reject climate change outright or worse, accept it as "God's will," do more damage to me and the lives of our planet's inhabitants than a scientist looking to reverse the trend. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone is awaiting the Rapture or End Times. That can happen after I die.

    My second example is Noah's ark: apparently he brought two of every creature on board his ark; even those we are still discovering to this day. That would make him one of the first to visit North America and the Western Hemisphere. Now if you say that this is a metaphor or parable, then what else is in the Bible that we must also treat as metaphor? And what can we then ascribe as the word of God? And which God? The xenophobic, racist, homophobic, bloodthirsty, jealous deity of the Old Testament, or the Santa Claus version presented in the New Testament? I reject the Bible and its teachings on these merits and similar (numerous) other examples.

    I don't mind discussing my viewpoint with others, and I appreciate the respectful tone with which you've responded throughout the thread. I won't post any more religious replies in this thread; not because I don't want to discuss it, but rather because this isn't the appropriate thread with which to do so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    I think that the issue that we have with the whole something out of nothing is that we are linear beings with a start and a finish so we look at things a beginning and an end, I think the universe is circular, there is neither a begining nor an end there just "is" I think that is what we cannot wrap our heads around
    then there is the camp which believes there are an infinite number of universes with infinite possible outcomes

    i think that reality may be so complex that it is impossible to grasp. either that or the world was made in 7 days and woman was made from the rib of a man. yeah, thats more plausible
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidoious View Post
    More of a hope of mine I guess. All the things I enjoy doing on Earth seem to be forbidden in Heaven.o.
    my hope is that there is an existence after death. and i hope its a place much different than earth cuz it would totally suck if it was the same

    its all hope though, as any evidence towards that is not scientific but merely anecdotal (life after death stories, ghosts, messages from beyond). Of course, by nature it would be hard to find the scientific evidence cuz the dead cant testify
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    Couldn't agree more. Too many emotions are destined to present themselves.

    I say we talk about PAT since this is his forum.

    Pat: You're ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by sidoious View Post
    I don't mind discussing my viewpoint with others, and I appreciate the respectful tone with which you've responded throughout the thread. I won't post any more religious replies in this thread; not because I don't want to discuss it, but rather because this isn't the appropriate thread with which to do so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    You just had to keep it stirred up
    My conclusion is that pubmed is god.
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    I dunno if this threads about gawd or the green coffee bean extract study. But in regards to the study itself i wasn't impressed with some of the methods. A 4% bodyfat loss over 22 weeks in fatty mcfatties is achievable by anyone. They also only asked them if they changed their exercise habits before and after. What about during the 22 weeks?

    Finally I think calorie intake fell quite a bit in the last arm of the study (not certain but i vaguely remember that).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post

    Finally I think calorie intake fell quite a bit in the last arm of the study (not certain but i vaguely remember that).
    nope



    Via the FT

    The mechanism(s) of the significant effects of GCA on weight loss, BMI, percent body fat, and heart rate are unknown. There have been some recent articles indicating that chlorogenic acid and its metabolite, caffeic acid, inhibit amylase at mM concentrations in vitro which, if it occurred in the gastrointestinal tract in vivo, would inhibit sugar absorption from starch consumption and thus decrease caloric input. That chlorogenic acid has a significant influence on glucose metabolism was well demonstrated by Rodrigues de Sotillo et al when they were able to demonstrate a significant improvement in glucose tolerance in Zucker rats. This relative deprivation of glucose could possibly explain the reduction in BMI as well as fat content seen in their other rat study and in our human study. Another group has clearly demonstrated that chlorogenic acid may in fact have an antagonistic effect on human glucose transport. Based on the dietary data in our study, the product was not an appetite suppressant. Extracts of green coffee beans inhibited pancreatic lipase in vitro with a 50% inhibitory concentration of 43 μM polyphenols. In support of this result, caffeinated but not decaffeinated coffee supplementation in humans produced a decrease in lipoprotein lipase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    my hope is that there is an existence after death. and i hope its a place much different than earth cuz it would totally suck if it was the same

    its all hope though, as any evidence towards that is not scientific but merely anecdotal (life after death stories, ghosts, messages from beyond). Of course, by nature it would be hard to find the scientific evidence cuz the dead cant testify
    My wish is the same, though there are days, especially lately, where I wish I could simply cease to exist, no longer be or feel...however more often than not "ceasing" is not something I find particularly comforting. I'd like to think we continue to some higher plane of existence....and like Pat I hope that it would not be to much like this existence, but I would hope that you still would recognize the ones that you know and care about as that is all I would really like to carry over from this life
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    nope



    Via the FT
    Ahhh thanks. Still lots of issues there. Will be interesting to see future research.
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    My wish is the same, though there are days, especially lately, where I wish I could simply cease to exist, no longer be or feel...however more often than not "ceasing" is not something I find particularly comforting. I'd like to think we continue to some higher plane of existence....and like Pat I hope that it would not be to much like this existence, but I would hope that you still would recognize the ones that you know and care about as that is all I would really like to carry over from this life
    "You see, without God, without a sense of God in our life, really the only motivation left is to get all we can, while we can. The only two realities for man without God are pleasure and pain. That’s it. That’s how we live our lives: trying to escape pain; trying to pursue pleasure in whatever forms they take. That’s because there’s no higher purpose unless something happens along the way to alter that perspective. That pursuit - that vanity - is imprinted within us because our nature is limited to seeing this life as all that there is."
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    "You see, without God, without a sense of God in our life, really the only motivation left is to get all we can, while we can. The only two realities for man without God are pleasure and pain. That’s it. That’s how we live our lives: trying to escape pain; trying to pursue pleasure in whatever forms they take. That’s because there’s no higher purpose unless something happens along the way to alter that perspective. That pursuit - that vanity - is imprinted within us because our nature is limited to seeing this life as all that there is."
    Kind of like your cosmic planarian worm moving from bad stimulus to good
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    Welcome to the party slow poke. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    "You see, without God, without a sense of God in our life, really the only motivation left is to get all we can, while we can. The only two realities for man without God are pleasure and pain. That’s it. That’s how we live our lives: trying to escape pain; trying to pursue pleasure in whatever forms they take. That’s because there’s no higher purpose unless something happens along the way to alter that perspective. That pursuit - that vanity - is imprinted within us because our nature is limited to seeing this life as all that there is."
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    "You see, without God, without a sense of God in our life, really the only motivation left is to get all we can, while we can. The only two realities for man without God are pleasure and pain. That’s it. That’s how we live our lives: trying to escape pain; trying to pursue pleasure in whatever forms they take. That’s because there’s no higher purpose unless something happens along the way to alter that perspective. That pursuit - that vanity - is imprinted within us because our nature is limited to seeing this life as all that there is."
    the reality is that altruism and social consciousness is observed n many non-human species. Of course I cant prove that these species dont believe in a god and and after life, but I presume they dont. Rather such behavior becomes ingrained in some social species over millenia because it offers them a survival advantage

    u see, you can explain so much without having to resort to god if you employ rational scientific thinking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    u see, you can explain so much without having to resort to god if you employ rational scientific thinking
    Yet there is so much that cannot be explained. I believe our God exists on or at a dimension beyond the four classics of time and space and we do not have the intellectual capacity to rationalize or substantiate with evidence. My God is beyond our comprehension but that does not mean there is no evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Welcome to the party slow poke. LOL
    I have grown tired of these over the years. I cannot change a man's mind nor do I attempt to. It's not a matter of the mind it is a matter of the heart. It's not a matter of evidence it is a matter of faith.

    The evidence of my heart will always be in conflict with the evidence of my mind. I think therefore I am perpetually conflicted.
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    I hear ya

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    I have grown tired of these over the years. I cannot change a man's mind nor do I attempt to.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Yet there is so much that cannot be explained.
    probably well over 99 percent of the universe cannot be explained. Not because its supernatural and therefore not explainable by science, but simply because we have not figured it out yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    I have grown tired of these over the years. I cannot change a man's mind nor do I attempt to. It's not a matter of the mind it is a matter of the heart. It's not a matter of evidence it is a matter of faith.

    The evidence of my heart will always be in conflict with the evidence of my mind. I think therefore I am perpetually conflicted.
    faith is the antithesis of science

    i guess i do believe in god. his name is science. and his adversary is faith
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    probably well over 99 percent of the universe cannot be explained. Not because its supernatural and therefore not explainable by science, but simply because we have not figured it out yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    faith is the antithesis of science

    i guess i do believe in god. his name is science. and his adversary is faith
    There really is nothing more to discuss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    There really is nothing more to discuss.
    yeah. as long as your faith doesn't get nuts and interfere with my life then i am fine. thats whats great about america. all religions can co-exist as well as those who choose to reject religion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    yeah. as long as your faith doesn't get nuts and interfere with my life then i am fine. thats whats great about america. all religions can co-exist as well as those who choose to reject religion
    You're an an optimist. I thought there was no longer anything great about America.

    Happy Memorial Day!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    yeah. as long as your faith doesn't get nuts and interfere with my life then i am fine. thats whats great about america. all religions can co-exist as well as those who choose to reject religion
    Indeed, Imagine us having this conversation in Iran, several of us would find out for sure if there was a God or not .....via firing squad
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    My wish is the same, though there are days, especially lately, where I wish I could simply cease to exist, no longer be or feel...


    "Times Like These"

    I am a one way motorway
    I'm the one that drives away
    then follows you back home
    I am a street light shining
    I'm a wild light blinding bright
    burning off alone

    it's times like these you learn to live again
    it's times like these you give and give again
    it's times like these you learn to love again
    it's times like these time and time again

    I am a new day rising
    I'm a brand new sky
    to hang the stars upon tonight
    I am a little divided
    do I stay or run away
    and leave it all behind?

    it's times like these you learn to live again
    it's times like these you give and give again
    it's times like these you learn to love again
    it's times like these time and time again

    Heard it this morning and it made me think of you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    You're an an optimist. I thought there was no longer anything great about America.

    Happy Memorial Day!
    Familiarity breeds contempt
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