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Green Coffee Bean

  1.  06-08-2012  09:05 AM
    Featured Author Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by diggyboo View Post
    That's not exactly true. Quran says it was made to look like Jesus was crucified. Which could mean a lot of things. I will say this though, I don't believe religion and science have to clash. In history the Muslims were some of the greatest scientists
    some muslims say it was judas who took on jesus' face. thats what my egyptian friend in new jersey told me a long time ago

    i think their are alot of different versions in islam
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  2.  06-08-2012  10:00 AM
    Registered User Flaw's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    I can't tell if you're being purposefully obtuse or not. I NEVER said no evidence exists, no idea where you're getting that from. This should help, happy reading.

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=scientific+evidence+for+evolution
    No offense to You geoforce, the word YOU was used in the sense of anyone.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

    WHAT has science offered?

  3.  06-08-2012  10:21 AM
    Controlled Labs Representative AE14's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    some muslims say it was judas who took on jesus' face. thats what my egyptian friend in new jersey told me a long time ago

    i think their are alot of different versions in islam
    there are predominantly 3 versions of Islam, Sunni, Sh'ia, Wahabbi.

    The Qu'ran is unique in that it was not a written tradition, it was a memorized oral tradition. I had a former student who had to move to Lebanon as a young boy to memorize the Qu'ran. Which from my understanding is a fairly common occurrence. That said, the version I have read stated that it was made to look like Jesus, but never mentioned anyone else by name.
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  4.  06-08-2012  11:26 AM
    Registered User Flaw's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    His response for me was

    "i dont argue with flat earthers"

    my friend has more important things to do, like getting papers published in Nature and discovering that there are two species of elephants in africa (using that false science known as genetics)
    Hmm.. How "Convenient".

    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the origin of this argument (look back) was the apparent disdain for science that Flaw had. That got me started. I see religious signatures in peoples posts all the time and i see religious people all the time and i am fine to let them believe what they want. But if you start attacking science and denying scientific evidence because it does not fit neatly into your theology that offends me
    Disdain is a strong word Mr. Arnold and I will strongly deny I have a disdain for science. It's a simple question. What can science offer me that is greater than everlasting life? I don't know why you couldn't have sent me a PM and gave me a answer.. Instead you opened it up for everyone to view in this thread about Green Coffee Beans and it escalated into what it has. It wasn't necessary.

    The only reason I replied back to your respones is because this is your section and I figure if you want to talk about it openly we can but I never asked for it.

    Some of your responses have appeared to be outright childish. Even the way in which you handled the question in my sig. At times you say things to sound "shocking" or "cool" as if we are in grade school. Comments such as "i think i have become a satanist actually".

    BTW.. after all has been said.. you still never answered the question. I guess some questions are best answered in silence...
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

    WHAT has science offered?

  5.  06-08-2012  11:32 AM
    Featured Author Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    Hmm.. How "Convenient".



    Disdain is a strong word Mr. Arnold and I will strongly deny I have a disdain for science. It's a simple question. What can science offer me that is greater than everlasting life? I don't know why you couldn't have sent me a PM and gave me a answer.. Instead you opened it up for everyone to view in this thread about Green Coffee Beans and it escalated into what it has. It wasn't necessary.

    The only reason I replied back to your respones is because this is your section and I figure if you want to talk about it openly we can but I never asked for it.

    Some of your responses have appeared to be outright childish. Even the way in which you handled the question in my sig. At times you say things to sound "shocking" or "cool" as if we are in grade school. Comments such as "i think i have become a satanist actually".

    BTW.. after all has been said.. you still never answered the question. I guess some questions are best answered in silence...

    good luck buddy.
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  6.  06-08-2012  11:56 AM
    Registered User D3Baseball's Avatar
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    The argument for those that are "believers" is that God can't be understood in the manner that we understand things like science.

    If this God is so imperceptible, how do I take messages from Him to live my life? I can acknowledge that I wonder and perhaps even hope for a higher existence and all that (the desires that lead to faith). If there is this God on a different plane of existence that has allowed all of this to occur, where do I find his will? The Bible sure isn't the place. Is the Qu'ran better? Why didn't he translate in an unbiased manner for us?

    I can say there may be something bigger than our understanding, but I'm not going to say that I have received understanding. That doesn't make any sense. I can acknowledge this being or whatever you want to call God, but I can't see how this alters my life choices.

  7.  06-08-2012  12:07 PM
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    The argument for those that are "believers" is that God can't be understood in the manner that we understand things like science.

    If this God is so imperceptible, how do I take messages from Him to live my life? I can acknowledge that I wonder and perhaps even hope for a higher existence and all that (the desires that lead to faith). If there is this God on a different plane of existence that has allowed all of this to occur, where do I find his will? The Bible sure isn't the place. Is the Qu'ran better? Why didn't he translate in an unbiased manner for us?

    I can say there may be something bigger than our understanding, but I'm not going to say that I have received understanding. That doesn't make any sense. I can acknowledge this being or whatever you want to call God, but I can't see how this alters my life choices.
    this is part of my issue as well. I take issue with theists who repeat time and again "you cannot understand the complexities of god", but then claim "I received a vision/understanding, and I know I have everlasting life" (or something of that ilk. It is a bowl of contradictions which it seems the theist can never answer to . Very sad imo that intelligent folks would use this whole issue as a security blanket. It is like ancient man hearing thunder and saying the gods are angry. When all else fails, its god. It just downright silly.
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  8.  06-08-2012  12:47 PM
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    It seems we've exhausted this discussion....interesting it was nonetheless....other than a few childish rants!!

  9.  06-08-2012  05:36 PM
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    Originally Posted by AE14
    I hate to tell you, but if you read the Qu'ran, Jesus was not the Messiah...he was a prophet, similar to Adam, Moses, David, etc... Muhammed was the final prophet as he received the final word from god.

    In terms of the crucifixion in the Qu'ran, you are correct he was not crucified. It specifically states that someone else was in his place.
    In the Qur'an Jesus is called Masih, which translates to Messiah. U must remember what messiah means. It means anointed one. Nothing more.

  10.  06-08-2012  05:38 PM
    Registered User diggyboo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    some muslims say it was judas who took on jesus' face. thats what my egyptian friend in new jersey told me a long time ago

    i think their are alot of different versions in islam
    I'm not saying ur wrong, but there is room for different interpretations

  11.  06-08-2012  06:40 PM
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    Originally Posted by diggyboo

    In the Qur'an Jesus is called Masih, which translates to Messiah. U must remember what messiah means. It means anointed one. Nothing more.
    Not in this instance. The linguistic scholars agree that it is not the Christian messiah term, it is equivalent to prophet.
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  12.  06-08-2012  09:34 PM
    Registered User D3Baseball's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AE14

    Not in this instance. The linguistic scholars agree that it is not the Christian messiah term, it is equivalent to prophet.
    This is why the Qu'ran is only meant to be read/told in Arabic

    Wouldn't it be novel to apply that thought to Christian texts?

  13.  06-09-2012  04:17 AM
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball

    This is why the Qu'ran is only meant to be read/told in Arabic

    Wouldn't it be novel to apply that thought to Christian texts?
    Not sure I understand what you are getting at regarding Christian texts. I think the translation issue is one that is prevalent in all texts. The OT and NT have lost so much meaning over the years as a result of mistranslations it is now almost impossible to know what was originally intended.
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  14.  06-09-2012  05:41 AM
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  15.  06-09-2012  11:58 AM
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    Originally Posted by AE14

    Not sure I understand what you are getting at regarding Christian texts. I think the translation issue is one that is prevalent in all texts. The OT and NT have lost so much meaning over the years as a result of mistranslations it is now almost impossible to know what was originally intended.
    Thats exactly what I'm saying. When people say "the bible says..." they don't know what the **** they're talking about.

    And anyone that has studied biblical history has to get a little rosie cheeked when they hear what the actual historical record has to say about some of these events, not to mention the arbitrary way it was all put together.

  16.  06-09-2012  12:14 PM
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Thats exactly what I'm saying. When people say "the bible says..." they don't know what the **** they're talking about.

    And anyone that has studied biblical history has to get a little rosie cheeked when they hear what the actual historical record has to say about some of these events, not to mention the arbitrary way it was all put together.
    sorry I misunderstood. Good to see that we are on the same page
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  17.  06-09-2012  01:52 PM
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    Just saying......

    Peace out y'all

    I'll pray for all of you

    Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    May I ask a question without you Atheists getting enraged?

    No disrespect/offense intended....

    Why do Atheists argue over the existence of a God so passionately?

    Christians obviously argue passionately as it's "sacred" to us.

    I will never comprehend this. It's like it stems from a deep-rooted bitterness or something.

    It's like this, my jerk neighbor was furious about the property line one time b/c I accidentally extended a mulch bed onto his side (we have odd lots, with nearly impossible triangular dimensions to know how/where the lots are defined). I laughed my butt off and said ok man, no sweat at all, I will fix it all. I didnt give a second thought and didnt even care to investigate if he was right.

    He was SO passionate about it is was hilarious. Frankly, I couldnt care less where the darn property line is! LOL

    As such, I did NOT engage AT ALL. For what it's worth, I NOW think the guy might even be wrong (as I view it from the street, I am pretttty sure the imaginary line favors MY lot)....but it is so irrelevant to me, I let it go as I figred WOW, this dude REALLLLY cares about his lot LOL

    I hope you can appreciate the analogy?

    If I did not believe there was a God, why would I give a HOOT that someone else did?
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  18.  07-04-2012  07:59 AM
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    Anybody who has been shot at believes in God.......

  19.  07-04-2012  02:02 PM
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    Originally Posted by wezley01 View Post
    Anybody who has been shot at believes in God.......
    That's odd.. What if you've been killed by that shot?

  20.  07-04-2012  10:38 PM
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    LOL threads dead, let it R.I.P

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