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  1. Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    I know what deism is....my point is that you can all it a life force or mother nature, but the implication is the same, ie an intelligent force being that designed, created and ordered the Universe. The term God is a word and like all words its symbolises a deep meaning by being associated with it. You can attach whatever word you want to the underlying mean.

    Interestingly you've quotes from 'The God Delusion'....which the author of admitted the following in an interview on the BBC called Hard Talk...

    that we were likely created by other intelligent beings, aliens of sorts, and left here on Earth.

    So when it all comes down to it.....most believe in some intelligent being or beings or life force having created and ordered creation. Some 'rational' individuals call them aliens whilst others a life force and others a God. I suppose believing in aliens or a life force as a creator frees you from the having to act within the framework of religion...you are then able to define you're own right, wrong and morality.
    immediate link now despite their being a chapter where he says you cannot doscount that if theres a possiblity for God.

    If there can be a God there can be aliens.


  2. While I can genuinely appreciate the frustration of an Atheist trying to comprehend what seems to be the incomprehensible, what you must understand is that to a Christian, our minds cannot grasp the boundadries or workings of what we consider ot be an infinte God. That said, a devout Atheist denouncing the possibility for the existence of a God MUST provide an intelligent argument based on finite wisdom since we are finite beings.

    Again not a cop out, or a delflection, just framing our point of view.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7
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  3. Sid: That image is offensive and unnecessary.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    If you believe in something, you must believe it to be truth right?

    I think the scientific evidence of evolution is getting ahead of itself. It's like watching 1 minute of a 120 minute film and telling me what the whole movie was about based on that 1 minute that you watched or reading 1 page of a 500 page book and telling me what the book was about. If someone told you what that movie or book was about would you believe them after finding out they watched 1 minute of the film or read 1 page of the book? I don't think you would.

    I didn't think the answer was complicated, I thought it was exactly what you wrote "NONE of us can prove evolution". My point was if someone so passionately believes in evolution they should be able to tell me why and show me SCIENTIFIC evidence why they do. Like you said, the truth is , there is no evidence. It cannot be proven. It is more related to faith than science.
    Waiting for this geneticisit friend of Patrick's.

    Here is our answer to the thread

    Is there evidence for God?

    No

    Goodnight Folks!

    Is there evidence for evolution?

    Yes and we continue to compile it.

    Goodnight everybody.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Sid: That image is offensive and unnecessary.
    Much like religion.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    While I can genuinely appreciate the frustration of an Atheist trying to comprehend what seems to be the incomprehensible, what you must understand is that to a Christian, our minds cannot grasp the boundadries or workings of what we consider ot be an infinte God. That said, a devout Atheist denouncing the possibility for the existence of a God MUST provide an intelligent argument based on finite wisdom since we are finite beings.

    Again not a cop out, or a delflection, just framing our point of view.
    Get out of here.You understand as little as we do.You guys just faith as answer which isn't.

    You shift the burden of proof to us when we state we don't believe which is wrong as the burden of proof lies on you.You claim proof so prove it.You cna't?Well then welcome to an atheist perspective of knowing nothing about the universe than what science lets us know.


    An intelligent and educated atheist will never say there is not the possibility of a God they will just say that the human trend is that we creat myth's to appease out spiritual sides.Stating one God to be the only God is irrational when we need to consider the 2000 odd Gods humanity has imagined throughout the ages.


    Btw none of you theists have bothered to answer my question that your faith is an accident of geography.Anybody.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by sidoious View Post
    Much like religion.
    Right on

  8. Are you an Atheist? If so, u just contradicted yourself LOL

    By Definition: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist



    Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    An intelligent and educated atheist will never say there is not the possibility of a God they will just say that the human trend is that we creat myth's to appease out spiritual sides.Stating one God to be the only God is irrational when we need to consider the 2000 odd Gods humanity has imagined throughout the ages.

    .
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Are you an Atheist? If so, u just contradicted yourself LOL

    By Definition: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist
    this i can at least agree with. An agnostic says "i don't know whether there is or isn't, and don't particularly care either" where atheists have as strong a belief in the lack of a god as religious people do of the existence.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Are you an Atheist? If so, u just contradicted yourself LOL

    By Definition: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist
    Nope.YOu can be an atheist and still logically feel that despite being nearly 100% sure that there is no God that there may indeed be a slim chance.It's illogical that it is any of the Gods mankind has creator but there is indeed the possibility of a creator.

    Remember and atheist is logical.You clearly know very little on the subject if your telling me I'm not an atheist.

    I cannot prove there is not a God therefore I must hold my conviction that there is no God but remain skeptical all at the same time.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    this i can at least agree with. An agnostic says "i don't know whether there is or isn't, and don't particularly care either" where atheists have as strong a belief in the lack of a god as religious people do of the existence.
    Do I have a lack of faith, or an abundance of certainty? That's how I basically phrase these arguments.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by sidoious View Post
    Do I have a lack of faith, or an abundance of certainty? That's how I basically phrase these arguments.
    pulling out a book with an atheist scale.I'm a 6 out of 7

    De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.

    Therefore no matter how you try and rhetorize it I am an atheist.ITT theists have never studies atheism in depth whereas atheist have studies theism in depth.Always the trend I'm afraid to say.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    Remember and atheist is logical
    According to who? Not a Christian

    That's akin to saying my Christian views are logical and not expecting the same rebuttal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    Nope.YOu can be an atheist and still logically feel that despite being nearly 100% sure that there is no God.
    Not according to Webster's Dictionary. That word "nearly" makes you a FULL-FLEDGED AGNOSTIC. Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    I cannot prove there is not a God therefore I must hold my conviction that there is no God but remain skeptical all at the same time.
    You don't HAVE to do anything. WHO's rules are you following? Since you admittedly can't prove anything, you are faced with 3 options, not one. God exists, GOd doesnt exist, God might exist. No one's holding your hand to the fire and forcing a position of Atheism (NO POSSIBILITY OF GOD)
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  14. You have an abundance of certainty? In what? The non-existence of God?

    Based on WHAT?

    Quote Originally Posted by sidoious View Post
    Do I have a lack of faith, or an abundance of certainty? That's how I basically phrase these arguments.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    While I can genuinely appreciate the frustration of an Atheist trying to comprehend what seems to be the incomprehensible, what you must understand is that to a Christian, our minds cannot grasp the boundadries or workings of what we consider ot be an infinte God. That said, a devout Atheist denouncing the possibility for the existence of a God MUST provide an intelligent argument based on finite wisdom since we are finite beings.

    Again not a cop out, or a delflection, just framing our point of view.
    This is where the whole discussion becomes circular and we are back to square one. The last couple of pages have boiled down to basically:

    Believers- Prove we're wrong.

    Non-believers- Prove you're right.

    Neither of these are going to happen, no one's "demands" will become satisfied. We're arguing the same thing that our ancestors argued and likely what our children will argue. And it is doubtful in anyone on this boards lifetime that proof for either side becomes clear.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    According to who? Not a Christian

    That's akin to saying my Christian views are logical and not expecting the same rebuttal.

    You believe without evidence.Not exactly logical

    Not according to Webster's Dictionary. That word "nearly" makes you a FULL-FLEDGED AGNOSTIC. Sorry

    I'm sorry sir but your still wrong according to my actual definition that I listed.


    You don't HAVE to do anything. WHO's rules are you following? Since you admittedly can't prove anything, you are faced with 3 options, not one. God exists, GOd doesnt exist, God might exist. No one's holding your hand to the fire and forcing a position of Atheism (NO POSSIBILITY OF GOD)
    Rules of logic.It's not logical to believe in a God if I have no proof.I can believe in evolution due to their being evidence.God=not a single shred.THough I cannot disprove it.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    You have an abundance of certainty? In what? The non-existence of God?

    Based on WHAT?
    yes.Based on a lack of evidence and the many myths that man has created.

    Which God do you follow?

    I would wager that it's the Christian God.

    You have certianty that the Roman and Grecian Gods are not the true Gods.Therefore oyu understand my point of view and accept it fully correct?

    For some reason the answer is a recurring no.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    This is where the whole discussion becomes circular and we are back to square one. The last couple of pages have boiled down to basically:

    Believers- Prove we're wrong.

    Non-believers- Prove you're right.

    Neither of these are going to happen, no one's "demands" will become satisfied. We're arguing the same thing that our ancestors argued and likely what our children will argue. And it is doubtful in anyone on this boards lifetime that proof for either side becomes clear.
    THe thing is the burden of proof falls to the believer as they make claims that they cannot back up with evidence,just more rhetoric as to why I believe differently.It's unprovable but fun to debate.

    All believers who try and use the prove me wronbg argument look at this

  19. Btw will a theist answer my question about their religion and the correlation to geography?Is it that hard to answer?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    so you had a vision. but while other peoples visions (like the son of sam, mohammed, charles manson) are delusional, yours is real. Because you know it to be real. Its all starting to make sense to me now
    Nope no vision. I've never had a vision. Ironically my belief in God is based upon rational thought. Difficult maybe for you to digest, but there are many like me. Rational, scientific individuals who also believe in God!

  21. Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    Nope no vision. I've never had a vision. Ironically my belief in God is based upon rational thought. Difficult maybe for you to digest, but there are many like me. irRational, scientific individuals who also believe in God!
    Fixed

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    THe thing is the burden of proof falls to the believer as they make claims that they cannot back up with evidence,just more rhetoric as to why I believe differently.It's unprovable but fun to debate.

    All believers who try and use the prove me wronbg argument look at this
    When you are asked to prove that evolved from mere organic buildings blocks into the complex organisms that we are you too are unable to do so. You literally have nothing other than making statements like we share common DNA with the rest of the animal kingdom. That isn't an argument for evolution any more than you can say that a building has evolved from a tree because they share some common materials.

    You talk about myths in the bible and forgeries...how about all the data and discoveries the scientists have forged in attempting to fill the gaping gaps in the current theory of evolution.

    If you subjected your theory of evolution to the same strict empirical standards that you subject the theory of God and creationism it too would fail.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    Fixed
    That's just childish and immature. But I should expect that kind of hysteria and ignorance from a militant atheist.

  24. Ever notice that creationists look really unevolved? You believe god created you in 6 days? Looks like he rushed it!

    Paraphrased from bill hicks.

    I kid I kid!!
    :P
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    That's just childish and immature. But I should expect that kind of hysteria and ignorance from a militant atheist.
    lol militant.By using logic I am militant and ignorant ..............mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmk ay

    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    When you are asked to prove that evolved from mere organic buildings blocks into the complex organisms that we are you too are unable to do so. You literally have nothing other than making statements like we share common DNA with the rest of the animal kingdom. That isn't an argument for evolution any more than you can say that a building has evolved from a tree because they share some common materials.

    You talk about myths in the bible and forgeries...how about all the data and discoveries the scientists have forged in attempting to fill the gaping gaps in the current theory of evolution.

    If you subjected your theory of evolution to the same strict empirical standards that you subject the theory of God and creationism it too would fail.
    Science has forged certain things,evolution is not 100% foolproof...........therefore God.Are you ripping the piss?
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