Green Coffee Bean

[Patrick Arnold]

I will vouch for PA here. Despite his prickly online persona, in person he is a real salt of the earth kind of guy, agnostic atheist or what ever he calls himself, he is a stand up dude,

if my personality is prickly then that means i am a prick. u calling me a prick?

[truthornothin]

if my personality is prickly then that means i am a prick. u calling me a prick?

Nah! I try to avoid long lines :P

[Flaw]

and i dont need god to have the good values and ethics i have. i do it because it is in my heart and because i believe in the human race. if you need god then that sounds like deep down you arent a good person

How would you propose that morals came about? A person might say well it's already in our being and some things are just common sense but why is it in our being? What put the conscious there? Why is it common to know murder isn't right? If you grow up being taught murder is right how would you know it's wrong? Maybe you'd only figure it out after you see the damage of it. Why does laws and morals of men resemble that of the 10 commandments?

No one is good without God. Without God you accomplish your own desires and our natural desires are extremely likely to lead us to do something wrong whether it's before God or men. It's too easy to do wrong. It's very hard to do right.

[AE14]

How would you propose that morals came about? A person might say well it's already in our being and some things are just common sense but why is it in our being? What put the conscious there? Why is it common to know murder isn't right? If you grow up being taught murder is right how would you know it's wrong? Maybe you'd only figure it out after you see the damage of it. Why does laws and morals of men resemble that of the 10 commandments?

No one is good without God. Without God you accomplish your own desires and our natural desires are extremely likely to lead us to do something wrong whether it's before God or men. It's too easy to do wrong. It's very hard to do right.

I think you are overstating a bit. God is not morality...neither are the 10 commandments if you truly read them. There is nothing moral about the 10 commandments, it is basically a few simple concepts and then instilling fear of a supreme being.

http://wheresmysammich.com/picture/1...ristian-logic/ check that out.

some of it is good, but there is no evidence to a horus crucifixion. He was a ressurrected god, and is most likely based off the Sumerian(Babylonian) Tammuz

[Patrick Arnold]

How would you propose that morals came about? A person might say well it's already in our being and some things are just common sense but why is it in our being? What put the conscious there? Why is it common to know murder isn't right? If you grow up being taught murder is right how would you know it's wrong? Maybe you'd only figure it out after you see the damage of it. Why does laws and morals of men resemble that of the 10 commandments?
.

why do the ten commandments resemble the morals of men? Cuz men made them up!!

Religion is, in large part, an invention of men to help maintain order in society. We know intrinsically what is right and wrong. We made up a god to make sure that people dont stray from law and order. And to explain the scary mysteries of the unknown


many species of animals have societies where they get along remarkably well and show generousity and compassion throughout the group. they evolved to be that way. they dont need a god.

[Flaw]

We know intrinsically what is right and wrong.

How do you propose? Is it in vain that we teach our children right and wrong? Should we not do that because it's already built in them?

[Geoforce]

How would you propose that morals came about? A person might say well it's already in our being and some things are just common sense but why is it in our being? What put the conscious there? Why is it common to know murder isn't right? If you grow up being taught murder is right how would you know it's wrong? Maybe you'd only figure it out after you see the damage of it. Why does laws and morals of men resemble that of the 10 commandments?

No one is good without God. Without God you accomplish your own desires and our natural desires are extremely likely to lead us to do something wrong whether it's before God or men. It's too easy to do wrong. It's very hard to do right.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If a parent teaches a kid properly it is wrong to steal from someone it will be learned. I got my ass spanked if I took some candy or something from one of my siblings. As I grew up I was taught you'd go to jail and taught jail was someplace I didn't really want to be.

These lessons didn't have to end in: And remember you will be tormented in a lake of fire for all eternally if you steal. Why have crime rates fallen recently even though church rates have went down as well? How the hell are people being moral without being deathly afraid of the man upstairs?! And more importantly why have so many people who have a relationship with God done so many horrible things? They can't be good with him apparently!

[Patrick Arnold]

How do you propose? Is it in vain that we teach our children right and wrong? Should we not do that because it's already built in them?

animals teach their young to hunt do they not? the instinct is there, but guidance from the parents helps perfect things

[Angelbolic]

How would you propose that morals came about? A person might say well it's already in our being and some things are just common sense but why is it in our being? What put the conscious there? Why is it common to know murder isn't right? If you grow up being taught murder is right how would you know it's wrong? Maybe you'd only figure it out after you see the damage of it. Why does laws and morals of men resemble that of the 10 commandments?

No one is good without God. Without God you accomplish your own desires and our natural desires are extremely likely to lead us to do something wrong whether it's before God or men. It's too easy to do wrong. It's very hard to do right.

Evolutionary psychology bra. It's pretty well established why people have morals and how they're beneficial for offspring. They even did some experiments testing this idea with software programmes. No need to use a fairy tale of some imaginable creature to explain morality. If religious people spend the time they read fairy tales reading magazines like Scientific American the world would be a much better place.

[Patrick Arnold]

How do you propose?

we know intrinsically what is right and wrong because it was a survival mechanism for human society and it evolved. those who did not know right from wrong could not form a stable society and so did not survive

[Flaw]

animals teach their young to hunt do they not? the instinct is there, but guidance from the parents helps perfect things

We aren't animals. Atleast some of us

Have we ever really been able to form a stable society and perfect things? All nations and all governments have fallen at some point.

[Flaw]

why have so many people who have a relationship with God done so many horrible things? They can't be good with him apparently!

You mean people who THINK they have a relationship with God. This is what God is thinking.

Matthew 7:21-23New International Version (NIV)

²¹ “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ²² Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ ²³ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

[David Dunn]

I will vouch for PA here. Despite his prickly online persona, in person he is a real salt of the earth kind of guy, agnostic atheist or what ever he calls himself, he is a stand up dude,

I see no evidence to support either attribute. There is only text that is supposedly his word.

[bigdavid]

We aren't animals. Atleast some of us

Have we ever really been able to form a stable society and perfect things? All nations and all governments have fallen at some point.

Actually, we are.

[David Dunn]

We know intrinsically what is right and wrong.

Who is this we you refer to? You'd need to be living under a rock to not notice that we (as a whole) know very little about what is right and wrong. I have seen what men know to be right and wrong. Aside from your major societal rights and wrongs (those punishable by society law) there is much evidence to suggest that man knows very little to nothing about right and wrong.

[Patrick Arnold]

We aren't animals. Atleast some of us

Have we ever really been able to form a stable society and perfect things? All nations and all governments have fallen at some point.

we are animals that evolved from primates. if you dont believe that then we are far off in reaching common ground

humans have formed remarkably stable societies and have succeeded in conquering the earth. We are, depending on how you measure it, the most successful species on this planet.

nations and governments fall and are replaced by new ones. its part of the evolution of our society

[saggy321]

if there is a god then science is the language of god. i have a spiritual side of me but i do not think that spiritual side is seperate in any way from science. it upsets me to hear people talk about science vs. god. and it upsets me when people associate science with atheism.

my whole argument is with the dogma of organized religion. because that is anti-science. and therefore anti-god

I agree wholeheartedly! Science is a tool for a rational mind to come to know God.

[Patrick Arnold]

I see no evidence to support either attribute. There is only text that is supposedly his word.

have faith ye non-believer

[Patrick Arnold]

Who is this we you refer to? You'd need to be living under a rock to not notice that we (as a whole) know very little about what is right and wrong. I have seen what men know to be right and wrong. Aside from your major societal rights and wrongs (those punishable by society law) there is much evidence to suggest that man knows very little to nothing about right and wrong.

anyone knows its wrong to steal or to kill. we know not to do to others that which we do not want done to ourselves. just like we know not to jump off a mountain or run in front of a bus

yes there are sociopaths out there. they still know what is right and wrong but they dont care

[David Dunn]

anyone knows its wrong to steal or to kill. we know not to do to others that which we do not want done to ourselves. just like we know not to jump off a mountain or run in front of a bus

yes there are sociopaths out there. they still know what is right and wrong but they dont care

We seem to only acknowledge the darkest shade of wrong when there is much that is wrong to less exteme and extroverted. There is much wrong in the hearts of man that doesn't always manifest itself in these extreme behaviors - we are a nation of fatherless children and abandoned wives. We kill the unborn and the criminal and engage in quite a bit of "unfruitful" civil liberties and unions. We have lost site of what is truly right and wrong.