Green Coffee Bean

[Roniboney]

FWIW:

"Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me..."

Out of curiosity what sort of personal intimacy/relationship does one encounter when one is engaged with a god like Brahman, Thor, Amun, Osiris, Zeus...etc. How is it good for or to ones soul to worship these gods?

Here is what the Christian God has to offer:

"Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."

“Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life..."

now let us know what the other Gods have to offer so we can understand why the Christian God is the one for you.

I take it you have at least researched the other major faiths of our day?What their creed,sacred texts entail ect...In fact I'm just 50 pages into the Ebnglish translation of the Qur'an.Funny as hell this thing

[AE14]

FWIW:

"Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me..."

Out of curiosity what sort of personal intimacy/relationship does one encounter when one is engaged with a god like Brahman, Thor, Amun, Osiris, Zeus...etc. How is it good for or to ones soul to worship these gods?

Here is what the Christian God has to offer:

"Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."

"Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life..."

For many of these gods...much of the desire of their followers was protection in the after life. Which is eerily similar to a later series of belief systems.

I am curious D, if you have looked at the origins of many of the judeo-Christian stories.

[Whacked]

Ahhh thank God. DD is back

I'm not a good debator at all LOL and I get too emotionally attached to the posts.

Hang on fellas, Im eating dinner and praying for Phil or DavidDunn to return b/c I feel like a skinny white kid with a suit on and $25,000 in cash walking into the Cripps territory LOLOLOL

[David Dunn]

For many of these gods...much of the desire of their followers was protection in the after life. Which is eerily similar to a later series of belief systems.

I am curious D, if you have looked at the origins of many of the judeo-Christian stories.

I am not very much of a literary. I know of enough to know and recognize that many Christian biblical stories transcend many faiths and cultures.

[David Dunn]

Ahhh thank God. DD is back

I'm not a good debator at all LOL and I get too emotionally attached to the posts.

You flatter me. I am hardly the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Whacked]

Neh, you're a smart dude but more importantly, you articulate your points well. As does Phil. My Atheist buddy AE does the same as I've seen them go round and round. Quite impressive.

The problem with threads like this is not only that no one ever wins per se but that the more talented debator is simply able to articulate his point/perspective better potentially leading to false conclusions by the viewers.

Ordinarilly, I wouldnt care but given the significance of the topic, it frustrates me not being adept at presenting facts/points in a lucid manner.

You flatter me. I am hardly the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Flaw]

This is where man has got to take a moment and think about how very little they know and check themselves. What we don't know should move us to humility rather than assertions of our puny intellects.

This is the issue at hand. Believing in a God has nothing to do with science. It's the ability to acknowledge the possibility that something out there is greater than I. It's a lack of humility and all vanity to think we can comprehend all and play that role of God. Man has proven century after century that he does not know how to direct his own steps. Yet people will still go out there and vote for a new leader thinking "this time" it will be different. It is the definition of insanity. Doing the same things over and over and expecting a different outcome. Man has been trying to do it his own way since the original sin and has proved to all that he cannot govern himself. He needs help. When a person needs help he needs to push his ego aside and just ask. It really is that simple.

[Patrick Arnold]

This is the issue at hand. Believing in a God has nothing to do with science. It's the ability to acknowledge the possibility that something out there is greater than I. It's a lack of humility and all vanity to think we can comprehend all and play that role of God.

The complexity of the universe awes me. I dont think we will ever understand this. A good scientist understands this and it humbles him more so than any religious person gets humbled by their worshipping experience.

Our species may never figure out everything. But everything has an explanation. Science can explain everything because that is the definition of science. The explanation for everything. The fact that you put god above science just is fundamentally non-sensical to me

[Flaw]

FOr instance the American military is very Christian.If you believe that God is on your side then your not really a Christian.The may used no violent methods to prove his points,he inspired by peace.Martin Luther King actively loved his enemies therefore he can call himself a man of Christ.Heck Gandhi was so Chrsitian he was Hindu!

I like to find common ground wherever I can and I do not want to be mixed in with the ideals of mainstream christianity.

Some of my christian friends are not gonna like this but when Jesus told murder was a sin, It didn't say in parenthesis (except when justified through war) Murder is murder. It is not our obligation to decide what is just and what is not. That is not our place. It's not our place take revenge either. God said "vengence is mine", Not ours.

You are absolutely right.. If you think God is gonna be on your side when your stictly going against many of his laws and commandments you have been a victim of brainwash. A man proves himself a christian by his works. Not his faith alone.

People aren't gonna like this either and probably call me un-american but a christian does not belong in the military. A christian's fight is not a physical one.

2 Corinthians 10:3-4

³ For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. ⁴ The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds"


Matthew 26:52

⁵² “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Luke 6:27- 28


²⁷ “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, ²⁸ bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

Jesus says.. love your enemies.. killing someone isn't very loving is it?


Some historical evidence of christians in war.


"A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.”—The Rise of Christianity (London, 1947), E. W. Barnes, p. 333.


“They refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . it was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—History of Christianity (New York, 1891), Edward Gibbon, pp. 162, 163.

[Flaw]

The complexity of the universe awes me. I dont think we will ever understand this. A good scientist understands this and it humbles him more so than any religious person gets humbled by their worshipping experience.

Our species may never figure out everything. But everything has an explanation. Science can explain everything because that is the definition of science. The explanation for everything. The fact that you put god above science just is fundamentally non-sensical to me

I disagree with this.. a good scientist is trying to come up with a original idea and prove "his" research is true.

If you don't have worshiping experience how could you know how humbling it could be?

I will tell you straight up.. Without God.. I'd be a very arrogant person. Way too overconfident. I think I can solve everything on my own. I'd be the definition of a mad scientist because when I focus on something I can get so involved in it that everything and everyone around me will just disapear. Finding God has allowed me to push my own desires aside and think bigger than myself.

Even with God I struggle with the consequences of overconfidence and I still struggle with trying to handle too much on my own but everytime I let GOD handle something.. he never disapoints. I am the only thing getting in the way of his help.

It is non-sensical to believe in something that is built on a fault line. What is proven as a fact in science one day is dispelled as a myth the next.

[David Dunn]

A christian's fight is not a physical one.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

[AE14]

I am not very much of a literary. I know of enough to know and recognize that many Christian biblical stories transcend many faiths and cultures.

this is true. What I have always found so interesting is that many stories, as you state, were around long before the bible was written. The only difference is of course a different cast of characters.

It is quite interesting to read ancient sumerian myths, and then jump forward 2-3K years, and have the same stories in a christian setting

[Roniboney]

I like to find common ground wherever I can and I do not want to be mixed in with the ideals of mainstream christianity.

Some of my christian friends are not gonna like this but when Jesus told murder was a sin, It didn't say in parenthesis (except when justified through war) Murder is murder. It is not our obligation to decide what is just and what is not. That is not our place. It's not our place take revenge either. God said "vengence is mine", Not ours.

You are absolutely right.. If you think God is gonna be on your side when your stictly going against many of his laws and commandments you have been a victim of brainwash. A man proves himself a christian by his works. Not his faith alone.

People aren't gonna like this either and probably call me un-american but a christian does not belong in the military. A christian's fight is not a physical one.

2 Corinthians 10:3-4

³ For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. ⁴ The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds"


Matthew 26:52

⁵² “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Luke 6:27- 28


²⁷ “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, ²⁸ bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

Jesus says.. love your enemies.. killing someone isn't very loving is it?


Some historical evidence of christians in war.


"A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.”—The Rise of Christianity (London, 1947), E. W. Barnes, p. 333.


“They refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . it was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—History of Christianity (New York, 1891), Edward Gibbon, pp. 162, 163.

Very rounded and interesting response man.Thank you for that.This is how we begin mutual respect for one antoerh,through challenging and accepting the good and bad of theism and atheism.Thanks man

[Roniboney]

this is true. What I have always found so interesting is that many stories, as you state, were around long before the bible was written. The only difference is of course a different cast of characters.

It is quite interesting to read ancient sumerian myths, and then jump forward 2-3K years, and have the same stories in a christian setting

I believe that the Egyptian myth has the God Osiris from a virgin but Oriris is truly the supreme God Ra.
Very interesting myth.Check out Bill Mahers documentary on how the Judaeo-Christian myth was not the first of it time to come up with this story.

Also the word for virigin is a mistranslation and should read ''young woman''.When the Bible was translated to Greek they changed this vital detail.But no matter it doesn't souind very likely anyways.If it gives you morality without judgement then I'm fine with it,if it doesn't well................


Btw on an anabolic matter do you guys think a low dose superdrol cycle at 10/10/10/10/10/10 would be beneficial?I was thinking of doing this or bridging it in the low dose with Epistane at 0/030/30/40/40 starting in week 3.

[AE14]

I believe that the Egyptian myth has the God Osiris from a virgin but Oriris is truly the supreme God Ra.
Very interesting myth.Check out Bill Mahers documentary on how the Judaeo-Christian myth was not the first of it time to come up with this story.

Also the word for virigin is a mistranslation and should read ''young woman''.When the Bible was translated to Greek they changed this vital detail.But no matter it doesn't souind very likely anyways.If it gives you morality without judgement then I'm fine with it,if it doesn't well................


Btw on an anabolic matter do you guys think a low dose superdrol cycle at 10/10/10/10/10/10 would be beneficial?I was thinking of doing this or bridging it in the low dose with Epistane at 0/030/30/40/40 starting in week 3.

the miraculous birth myth is not new, and was around for millenia prior to the Jesus story.

[Roniboney]

the miraculous birth myth is not new, and was around for millenia prior to the Jesus story.

that is what I just said.That Christians think it's their but in fact it isn't.referenced the Egyptians man they were a good 1000 years before Jesus Christ.

[AE14]

that is what I just said.That Christians think it's their but in fact it isn't.referenced the Egyptians man they were a good 1000 years before Jesus Christ.

agreed, the Egyptian myth goes back several thousand years BCE. The Egyptians refer to it as "Zep Tepi", first time. Most of the more modern religions have borrowed their traditions. Hell, it is fairly well established all of the pilfering that Constantine did with Christianity in the 4th century, as a means of unifying the people within 1 religion

[Roniboney]

agreed, the Egyptian myth goes back several thousand years BCE. The Egyptians refer to it as "Zep Tepi", first time. Most of the more modern religions have borrowed their traditions. Hell, it is fairly well established all of the pilfering that Constantine did with Christianity in the 4th century, as a means of unifying the people within 1 religion

http://wheresmysammich.com/picture/1...ristian-logic/ check that out.

[Patrick Arnold]

I disagree with this.. a good scientist is trying to come up with a original idea and prove "his" research is true.

If you don't have worshiping experience how could you know how humbling it could be?

I will tell you straight up.. Without God.. I'd be a very arrogant person. Way too overconfident. I think I can solve everything on my own. I'd be the definition of a mad scientist because when I focus on something I can get so involved in it that everything and everyone around me will just disapear. Finding God has allowed me to push my own desires aside and think bigger than myself.

Even with God I struggle with the consequences of overconfidence and I still struggle with trying to handle too much on my own but everytime I let GOD handle something.. he never disapoints. I am the only thing getting in the way of his help.

It is non-sensical to believe in something that is built on a fault line. What is proven as a fact in science one day is dispelled as a myth the next.

u just arent listening to me. u are confusing science facts with the practice of science.

its no more valid for me to dispel religion because of the foolish acts of religious people.

and i dont need god to have the good values and ethics i have. i do it because it is in my heart and because i believe in the human race. if you need god then that sounds like deep down you arent a good person

[truthornothin]

u just arent listening to me. u are confusing science facts with the practice of science.

its no more valid for me to dispel religion because of the foolish acts of religious people.

and i dont need god to have the good values and ethics i have. i do it because it is in my heart and because i believe in the human race. if you need god then that sounds like deep down you arent a good person

I will vouch for PA here. Despite his prickly online persona, in person he is a real salt of the earth kind of guy, agnostic atheist or what ever he calls himself, he is a stand up dude,