Green Coffee Bean
- 06-04-2012, 12:32 PM
Matthew 7:21-23New International Version (NIV)
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’“Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68
- 06-04-2012, 12:34 PM
06-04-2012, 12:35 PM
06-04-2012, 12:42 PM
06-04-2012, 12:43 PM
humans have formed remarkably stable societies and have succeeded in conquering the earth. We are, depending on how you measure it, the most successful species on this planet.
nations and governments fall and are replaced by new ones. its part of the evolution of our society
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06-04-2012, 12:44 PM
06-04-2012, 12:44 PM
06-04-2012, 12:47 PM
yes there are sociopaths out there. they still know what is right and wrong but they dont care
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06-04-2012, 01:02 PM
06-04-2012, 01:06 PM
Though a lot of the stories in the New Testament are moral just because they can have value for society doesn't mean therefore God exists.There will always be immoral people,whether religious or not.
06-04-2012, 01:10 PM
Just because you have understood some of of creation in a haphazard and partial manner and renamed it using modern 'technical' terms, doesn't mean that it was not created by some higher power. In fact if anything, it should prove His existence. A system so complex that it has taken millions of minds over centuries to only begin to decipher must be created by an overwhelming Intelligent Being.
06-04-2012, 01:17 PM
06-04-2012, 01:20 PM
06-04-2012, 01:21 PM
The fundamental principle of Christianity is attonment for our depraved condition (or what you call morallity) through the washing and cleansing with the sacrificial blood and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
All your morallity cannot wash the dirt of your depraved condition. We are a fallen species.
Of course some think much more highly of themselves.
06-04-2012, 01:22 PM
06-04-2012, 01:29 PM
That little dig at me is not appreciated.We're not a fallen species.We're one that resembles all the traits of an advanced society through our evolution.As humans have advanced so has our morality and lack of it in certain individuals,as has our understanding of the world and universe.We should think highly of our species for how far we have come in such a short time.I think highly of myself and others who partake in arguments like this as it actually shows that through intellectual thought you have been affected by our existence,purpose ect.....all the major,and important questions.
Though of course being a person in a position of power you would understand that personal attacks get you nowhere,no matter how indirect it is or how much you will more than likely deny the attack.Lets just get it straight here-you think I'm an idiot for being skeptical don't you?Lets not sugar coat this debate any more,lets just get it all out there like mature adults.
06-04-2012, 01:30 PM
There is evidence to support that even the earliest humans had rituals of significance (based on burials, etc....) but there is nothing until Zoroastrianism (or Atenism) that illustrates a "god".
06-04-2012, 01:38 PM
Another point, everything is subject to change accept God. Creation has been created to undergo change as the completely stability is the premise of only a Diety. So inevitably you will see countries, peoples and races fall and be replaced by others.
06-04-2012, 02:04 PM
But I must mention that you have displyed the greater if not the greatest shortcoming (or sin depeneding upon ones inclination to negative connotations) which is pride. We pride oursleves a great deal and anything; a god, the God or religeon or the likes attempts to convict us otherwise is met with great disdain. You have displayed IMHO the wrong in whats wrong with man (not you) - a lack of humility in the sense that you truly believe that our intellect has created an evolved state of a moral, ethical and social condition.
Again, no offense implied or otherwise intended. Simply an observation of your response to a non-specific statement that was not with ill will or intended provocation.
06-04-2012, 04:40 PM
The evolution theory of humans hangs on The science of dating and there is way too many flaws in dating science. You will find literature after literature that bones originally thought to be millions of years old have been reduced to mere thousands of years time.
What's your defintion of stable? Survival?
“Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68
06-04-2012, 04:46 PM
As I posted earlier in the thread, here is one attemp that was proven to be a fraud.[Archaeology - Charles Dawson, Reiner Protsch von Zieten, Shinichi Fujimura
In 1912 England, Charles Dawson had made a stunning discovery: the link between humans and primates. The so-called Piltdown man, named Eoanthropus dawsoni, was dug up by the amateur archaeologist, and had a human-sized brain compartment and ape-sized jaw. Dawson unearthed a LOT of other spectacular finds, including a previously unknown species of mammal (Plagiaulax dawsoni), three new species of dinosaur, and a new form of fossil plant, Salaginella dawsoni.
Just 41 years later, scientists concluded it was a forgery. The human skull was just 6000 years old. And the jawbone? Orangutan. All of the fossils found at the landmark Piltdown site had been planted.
No wonder Dawson didn't find a link - the real missing link between Neandertals and modern humans was hiding in a peat bog near Hamburg - or so said Reiner Protsch von Zieten, a German professor. Von Zieten was acclaimed for such finds as the 36,000 year old Hahnhöfersand Man, the 21,300 year old Binshof-Speyer woman, a 50 million-year-old "half-ape" called Adapis that had been found in Switzerland, and the 27,400 year old Paderborn-Sande man. His work work "appeared to prove that anatomically modern humans and Neanderthals had co-existed, and perhaps even had children together," according to the 2005 Guardian article. Oops - apparently von Zieten literally had no idea how to work the carbon dating machine. The heralded findings? H-Man: died 7,500 years ago; B-S woman (ha): died in 1300 BCE; Adapis: actually dug up in France (not sure about dates); P-S man: died in 1750.
It's not bad enough he falsifed data and rewrote the history of anthropology. He also faked his own history - not of noble blood at all, but the son of a Nazi MP. He is tied to the shredding of documents detailing "gruesome" Nazi scientific experiments and the disappearance of heads from some of the 12,000 skeletons at the university.
Another archaeologist, Japan's Shinichi Fujimura, can at least be excused for planting his "finds" - the devil made him do it. Or so he said when he was caught in 2000. His nickname, "God's hands," came from his uncanny ability to find prehistoric artifacts. Too bad he was caught on camera digging holes and burying objects.
06-04-2012, 04:49 PM
06-04-2012, 04:50 PM
I suppose we are gna tie this all back into Green Coffee Bean extract?
FLAW - You misunderstand evolution. Individual organisms don't evolve - It doesn't work that way. It never has. Evolution suggests that apes and humans evolved from an as yet undiscovered common ancestor. If you read any scientific magazines/journals, you may hear about the search for "the missing link". More discoveries are being made, little by little, to support the Theory of Evolution. It's all very interesting, and I suggest that you make a concentrated effort to study it, if for no other reason than to be better prepared to defend your position.
Personally I like Mike Alder's take on Newtonian thought: "what cannot be settled by experiment is not worth debating"
06-04-2012, 04:57 PM
06-04-2012, 05:32 PM