Green Coffee Bean

Page 10 of 18 First ... 89101112 ... Last

  1. Neh, you're a smart dude but more importantly, you articulate your points well. As does Phil. My Atheist buddy AE does the same as I've seen them go round and round. Quite impressive.

    The problem with threads like this is not only that no one ever wins per se but that the more talented debator is simply able to articulate his point/perspective better potentially leading to false conclusions by the viewers.

    Ordinarilly, I wouldnt care but given the significance of the topic, it frustrates me not being adept at presenting facts/points in a lucid manner.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    You flatter me. I am hardly the sharpest tool in the shed.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7


  2. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    This is where man has got to take a moment and think about how very little they know and check themselves. What we don't know should move us to humility rather than assertions of our puny intellects.
    This is the issue at hand. Believing in a God has nothing to do with science. It's the ability to acknowledge the possibility that something out there is greater than I. It's a lack of humility and all vanity to think we can comprehend all and play that role of God. Man has proven century after century that he does not know how to direct his own steps. Yet people will still go out there and vote for a new leader thinking "this time" it will be different. It is the definition of insanity. Doing the same things over and over and expecting a different outcome. Man has been trying to do it his own way since the original sin and has proved to all that he cannot govern himself. He needs help. When a person needs help he needs to push his ego aside and just ask. It really is that simple.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    This is the issue at hand. Believing in a God has nothing to do with science. It's the ability to acknowledge the possibility that something out there is greater than I. It's a lack of humility and all vanity to think we can comprehend all and play that role of God.
    The complexity of the universe awes me. I dont think we will ever understand this. A good scientist understands this and it humbles him more so than any religious person gets humbled by their worshipping experience.

    Our species may never figure out everything. But everything has an explanation. Science can explain everything because that is the definition of science. The explanation for everything. The fact that you put god above science just is fundamentally non-sensical to me
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    FOr instance the American military is very Christian.If you believe that God is on your side then your not really a Christian.The may used no violent methods to prove his points,he inspired by peace.Martin Luther King actively loved his enemies therefore he can call himself a man of Christ.Heck Gandhi was so Chrsitian he was Hindu!
    I like to find common ground wherever I can and I do not want to be mixed in with the ideals of mainstream christianity.

    Some of my christian friends are not gonna like this but when Jesus told murder was a sin, It didn't say in parenthesis (except when justified through war) Murder is murder. It is not our obligation to decide what is just and what is not. That is not our place. It's not our place take revenge either. God said "vengence is mine", Not ours.

    You are absolutely right.. If you think God is gonna be on your side when your stictly going against many of his laws and commandments you have been a victim of brainwash. A man proves himself a christian by his works. Not his faith alone.

    People aren't gonna like this either and probably call me un-american but a christian does not belong in the military. A christian's fight is not a physical one.

    2 Corinthians 10:3-4

    3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds"


    Matthew 26:52

    52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

    Luke 6:27- 28


    27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

    Jesus says.. love your enemies.. killing someone isn't very loving is it?


    Some historical evidence of christians in war.


    "A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.”—The Rise of Christianity (London, 1947), E. W. Barnes, p. 333.


    “They refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . it was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—History of Christianity (New York, 1891), Edward Gibbon, pp. 162, 163.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    The complexity of the universe awes me. I dont think we will ever understand this. A good scientist understands this and it humbles him more so than any religious person gets humbled by their worshipping experience.

    Our species may never figure out everything. But everything has an explanation. Science can explain everything because that is the definition of science. The explanation for everything. The fact that you put god above science just is fundamentally non-sensical to me
    I disagree with this.. a good scientist is trying to come up with a original idea and prove "his" research is true.

    If you don't have worshiping experience how could you know how humbling it could be?

    I will tell you straight up.. Without God.. I'd be a very arrogant person. Way too overconfident. I think I can solve everything on my own. I'd be the definition of a mad scientist because when I focus on something I can get so involved in it that everything and everyone around me will just disapear. Finding God has allowed me to push my own desires aside and think bigger than myself.

    Even with God I struggle with the consequences of overconfidence and I still struggle with trying to handle too much on my own but everytime I let GOD handle something.. he never disapoints. I am the only thing getting in the way of his help.

    It is non-sensical to believe in something that is built on a fault line. What is proven as a fact in science one day is dispelled as a myth the next.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    A christian's fight is not a physical one.
    For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
    I have no enemies. My friends intensely despise me.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    I am not very much of a literary. I know of enough to know and recognize that many Christian biblical stories transcend many faiths and cultures.
    this is true. What I have always found so interesting is that many stories, as you state, were around long before the bible was written. The only difference is of course a different cast of characters.

    It is quite interesting to read ancient sumerian myths, and then jump forward 2-3K years, and have the same stories in a christian setting
    Mr. Supps Board Rep

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    I like to find common ground wherever I can and I do not want to be mixed in with the ideals of mainstream christianity.

    Some of my christian friends are not gonna like this but when Jesus told murder was a sin, It didn't say in parenthesis (except when justified through war) Murder is murder. It is not our obligation to decide what is just and what is not. That is not our place. It's not our place take revenge either. God said "vengence is mine", Not ours.

    You are absolutely right.. If you think God is gonna be on your side when your stictly going against many of his laws and commandments you have been a victim of brainwash. A man proves himself a christian by his works. Not his faith alone.

    People aren't gonna like this either and probably call me un-american but a christian does not belong in the military. A christian's fight is not a physical one.

    2 Corinthians 10:3-4

    3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds"


    Matthew 26:52

    52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

    Luke 6:27- 28


    27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

    Jesus says.. love your enemies.. killing someone isn't very loving is it?


    Some historical evidence of christians in war.


    "A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.”—The Rise of Christianity (London, 1947), E. W. Barnes, p. 333.


    “They refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . it was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—History of Christianity (New York, 1891), Edward Gibbon, pp. 162, 163.
    Very rounded and interesting response man.Thank you for that.This is how we begin mutual respect for one antoerh,through challenging and accepting the good and bad of theism and atheism.Thanks man

  9. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    this is true. What I have always found so interesting is that many stories, as you state, were around long before the bible was written. The only difference is of course a different cast of characters.

    It is quite interesting to read ancient sumerian myths, and then jump forward 2-3K years, and have the same stories in a christian setting
    I believe that the Egyptian myth has the God Osiris from a virgin but Oriris is truly the supreme God Ra.
    Very interesting myth.Check out Bill Mahers documentary on how the Judaeo-Christian myth was not the first of it time to come up with this story.

    Also the word for virigin is a mistranslation and should read ''young woman''.When the Bible was translated to Greek they changed this vital detail.But no matter it doesn't souind very likely anyways.If it gives you morality without judgement then I'm fine with it,if it doesn't well................


    Btw on an anabolic matter do you guys think a low dose superdrol cycle at 10/10/10/10/10/10 would be beneficial?I was thinking of doing this or bridging it in the low dose with Epistane at 0/030/30/40/40 starting in week 3.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    I believe that the Egyptian myth has the God Osiris from a virgin but Oriris is truly the supreme God Ra.
    Very interesting myth.Check out Bill Mahers documentary on how the Judaeo-Christian myth was not the first of it time to come up with this story.

    Also the word for virigin is a mistranslation and should read ''young woman''.When the Bible was translated to Greek they changed this vital detail.But no matter it doesn't souind very likely anyways.If it gives you morality without judgement then I'm fine with it,if it doesn't well................


    Btw on an anabolic matter do you guys think a low dose superdrol cycle at 10/10/10/10/10/10 would be beneficial?I was thinking of doing this or bridging it in the low dose with Epistane at 0/030/30/40/40 starting in week 3.
    the miraculous birth myth is not new, and was around for millenia prior to the Jesus story.
    Mr. Supps Board Rep

  11. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    the miraculous birth myth is not new, and was around for millenia prior to the Jesus story.
    that is what I just said.That Christians think it's their but in fact it isn't.referenced the Egyptians man they were a good 1000 years before Jesus Christ.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    that is what I just said.That Christians think it's their but in fact it isn't.referenced the Egyptians man they were a good 1000 years before Jesus Christ.
    agreed, the Egyptian myth goes back several thousand years BCE. The Egyptians refer to it as "Zep Tepi", first time. Most of the more modern religions have borrowed their traditions. Hell, it is fairly well established all of the pilfering that Constantine did with Christianity in the 4th century, as a means of unifying the people within 1 religion
    Mr. Supps Board Rep

  13. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    agreed, the Egyptian myth goes back several thousand years BCE. The Egyptians refer to it as "Zep Tepi", first time. Most of the more modern religions have borrowed their traditions. Hell, it is fairly well established all of the pilfering that Constantine did with Christianity in the 4th century, as a means of unifying the people within 1 religion
    http://wheresmysammich.com/picture/1...ristian-logic/ check that out.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    I disagree with this.. a good scientist is trying to come up with a original idea and prove "his" research is true.

    If you don't have worshiping experience how could you know how humbling it could be?

    I will tell you straight up.. Without God.. I'd be a very arrogant person. Way too overconfident. I think I can solve everything on my own. I'd be the definition of a mad scientist because when I focus on something I can get so involved in it that everything and everyone around me will just disapear. Finding God has allowed me to push my own desires aside and think bigger than myself.

    Even with God I struggle with the consequences of overconfidence and I still struggle with trying to handle too much on my own but everytime I let GOD handle something.. he never disapoints. I am the only thing getting in the way of his help.

    It is non-sensical to believe in something that is built on a fault line. What is proven as a fact in science one day is dispelled as a myth the next.

    u just arent listening to me. u are confusing science facts with the practice of science.

    its no more valid for me to dispel religion because of the foolish acts of religious people.

    and i dont need god to have the good values and ethics i have. i do it because it is in my heart and because i believe in the human race. if you need god then that sounds like deep down you arent a good person
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    u just arent listening to me. u are confusing science facts with the practice of science.

    its no more valid for me to dispel religion because of the foolish acts of religious people.

    and i dont need god to have the good values and ethics i have. i do it because it is in my heart and because i believe in the human race. if you need god then that sounds like deep down you arent a good person
    I will vouch for PA here. Despite his prickly online persona, in person he is a real salt of the earth kind of guy, agnostic atheist or what ever he calls himself, he is a stand up dude,
    E-PHARM Nutrition Representative
    Better one ugly truth than a million pretty lies
    Check Out Ur-Spray and D-Serine at Prototype Nutrition




  16. Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    I will vouch for PA here. Despite his prickly online persona, in person he is a real salt of the earth kind of guy, agnostic atheist or what ever he calls himself, he is a stand up dude,

    if my personality is prickly then that means i am a prick. u calling me a prick?
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    if my personality is prickly then that means i am a prick. u calling me a prick?
    Nah! I try to avoid long lines :P
    E-PHARM Nutrition Representative
    Better one ugly truth than a million pretty lies
    Check Out Ur-Spray and D-Serine at Prototype Nutrition




  18. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    and i dont need god to have the good values and ethics i have. i do it because it is in my heart and because i believe in the human race. if you need god then that sounds like deep down you arent a good person

    How would you propose that morals came about? A person might say well it's already in our being and some things are just common sense but why is it in our being? What put the conscious there? Why is it common to know murder isn't right? If you grow up being taught murder is right how would you know it's wrong? Maybe you'd only figure it out after you see the damage of it. Why does laws and morals of men resemble that of the 10 commandments?

    No one is good without God. Without God you accomplish your own desires and our natural desires are extremely likely to lead us to do something wrong whether it's before God or men. It's too easy to do wrong. It's very hard to do right.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    How would you propose that morals came about? A person might say well it's already in our being and some things are just common sense but why is it in our being? What put the conscious there? Why is it common to know murder isn't right? If you grow up being taught murder is right how would you know it's wrong? Maybe you'd only figure it out after you see the damage of it. Why does laws and morals of men resemble that of the 10 commandments?

    No one is good without God. Without God you accomplish your own desires and our natural desires are extremely likely to lead us to do something wrong whether it's before God or men. It's too easy to do wrong. It's very hard to do right.
    I think you are overstating a bit. God is not morality...neither are the 10 commandments if you truly read them. There is nothing moral about the 10 commandments, it is basically a few simple concepts and then instilling fear of a supreme being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    some of it is good, but there is no evidence to a horus crucifixion. He was a ressurrected god, and is most likely based off the Sumerian(Babylonian) Tammuz
    Mr. Supps Board Rep

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    How would you propose that morals came about? A person might say well it's already in our being and some things are just common sense but why is it in our being? What put the conscious there? Why is it common to know murder isn't right? If you grow up being taught murder is right how would you know it's wrong? Maybe you'd only figure it out after you see the damage of it. Why does laws and morals of men resemble that of the 10 commandments?
    .
    why do the ten commandments resemble the morals of men? Cuz men made them up!!

    Religion is, in large part, an invention of men to help maintain order in society. We know intrinsically what is right and wrong. We made up a god to make sure that people dont stray from law and order. And to explain the scary mysteries of the unknown


    many species of animals have societies where they get along remarkably well and show generousity and compassion throughout the group. they evolved to be that way. they dont need a god.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    We know intrinsically what is right and wrong.
    How do you propose? Is it in vain that we teach our children right and wrong? Should we not do that because it's already built in them?
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    How would you propose that morals came about? A person might say well it's already in our being and some things are just common sense but why is it in our being? What put the conscious there? Why is it common to know murder isn't right? If you grow up being taught murder is right how would you know it's wrong? Maybe you'd only figure it out after you see the damage of it. Why does laws and morals of men resemble that of the 10 commandments?

    No one is good without God. Without God you accomplish your own desires and our natural desires are extremely likely to lead us to do something wrong whether it's before God or men. It's too easy to do wrong. It's very hard to do right.
    I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If a parent teaches a kid properly it is wrong to steal from someone it will be learned. I got my ass spanked if I took some candy or something from one of my siblings. As I grew up I was taught you'd go to jail and taught jail was someplace I didn't really want to be.

    These lessons didn't have to end in: And remember you will be tormented in a lake of fire for all eternally if you steal. Why have crime rates fallen recently even though church rates have went down as well? How the hell are people being moral without being deathly afraid of the man upstairs?! And more importantly why have so many people who have a relationship with God done so many horrible things? They can't be good with him apparently!
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    How do you propose? Is it in vain that we teach our children right and wrong? Should we not do that because it's already built in them?
    animals teach their young to hunt do they not? the instinct is there, but guidance from the parents helps perfect things
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    How do you propose?

    we know intrinsically what is right and wrong because it was a survival mechanism for human society and it evolved. those who did not know right from wrong could not form a stable society and so did not survive
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    animals teach their young to hunt do they not? the instinct is there, but guidance from the parents helps perfect things
    We aren't animals. Atleast some of us

    Have we ever really been able to form a stable society and perfect things? All nations and all governments have fallen at some point.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Green cofee bean extract
    By Deccadick in forum Supplements
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 09-19-2007, 12:24 PM
  2. Green Tea, Black Coffee
    By yeahright in forum Nutrition / Health
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-26-2006, 12:02 PM
  3. White bean dip
    By yeahright in forum Recipes
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-17-2006, 02:33 AM
Log in
Log in