Ecdysterone yes or no?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I'm old so I don't have time to wait over a decade. What you say in this post makes sense though.
    Thank you.

    I didn't mean to suggest waiting that long, just an observation on my part. The test of time is most telling. I like flipping through old musclemags from years ago. 99% of the "hot" products then, aren't around today. A scant few are. Those are the ones I look further into, trying to understand why...


  2. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I'm old so I don't have time to wait over a decade. What you say in this post makes sense though.
    you're not old, I am old
    E-PHARM Nutrition Representative
    Better one ugly truth than a million pretty lies
    Check Out Ur-Spray and D-Serine at Prototype Nutrition



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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    You make great points. It just blows my mind that product efficacy comes second to hiring an ad agency, getting some juiced up pro to endorse it and gearing up for methyl 2-test, because methyl 1-test was so "last month".

    In my mind, the true test is as follows...

    1.) The product generates repeat buys, over a decade or more
    2.) The product doesn't need much advertising - it sells itself through word of mouth

    I keep seeing "new"! New doesn't mean better. Better is better....
    well, there are a few other parts too as well. in general in sports nutrition now, particularly considering the volume of obesity research a dedcade isn't relevant. The understanding of relatively simple processes and what affects them changes sometimes drammatically in that time. Also, although the no advertising/word of mouth is nice, there is definitely a serious income limitation on that. That doesn't sound relevant, but for the sake of the argument say you want to start some free childhood obesity programs for schools. doing something national just to start it could cost into the hundreds of thousands. You can't make that very easily on word of mouth.

    sure, new doesn't mean better, but neither does old mean better so if you aren't watching what is new, and potentially incorporating it, you may be doing your customers a disservice. Not saying you are, but that the possibility exists.


    btw an interesting article on the tart cherry juice. How long does a bottle of synthagen last? and do you have many/any users who happened to be on TRT using it? just wondering in terms of effectiveness.

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/conte...ry-juice-1448/

  4. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    well, there are a few other parts too as well. in general in sports nutrition now, particularly considering the volume of obesity research a dedcade isn't relevant. The understanding of relatively simple processes and what affects them changes sometimes drammatically in that time. Also, although the no advertising/word of mouth is nice, there is definitely a serious income limitation on that. That doesn't sound relevant, but for the sake of the argument say you want to start some free childhood obesity programs for schools. doing something national just to start it could cost into the hundreds of thousands. You can't make that very easily on word of mouth.

    sure, new doesn't mean better, but neither does old mean better so if you aren't watching what is new, and potentially incorporating it, you may be doing your customers a disservice. Not saying you are, but that the possibility exists.


    btw an interesting article on the tart cherry juice. How long does a bottle of synthagen last? and do you have many/any users who happened to be on TRT using it? just wondering in terms of effectiveness.

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/conte...ry-juice-1448/

    I appreciate your commentary/perspective. I do my absolute best, to stay current with the research as well as the "tried and true" stuff. Insofar as the marketing end of things, that's admittedly not my niche. Nor is the bottling, fulfillment/distribution - which is why I elected to private label it, so to speak. I know what my strengths are (and aren't), LOL.

    With respect to Synthagen - A bottle will last most folks almost a month. MANY are doing terrific on just 5 caps, twice a day for a total of 10 caps/day. It's the timing of administration, that need only be dialed in. Pre/post workout on training days is the slam dunk, as is just prior to your largest meal(s) of the day. For some curious reason (I admittedly don't know why - yet), it has a rather profound ability to help you digest a LOT of food, in one sitting. One other note: Someone on my board posted a rather riveting piece about the carcinogens sprayed on non-organic cherries. Fortunately, I always buy the organic cherry juice. I normally see this type of info as too "scare tactic" like, but he's one sharp guy, and posted plenty of backup to make his case.

    Finally, I do have a handful of folks using Synthagen with HRT but not Thyroid Replacement Therapy (assuming that's what you meant, by TRT). I'd surmise it would help with the catabolism thyroid hormones (generally) impart, but being honest - that's speculation on my part. I CAN tell you, "it really shines on a cut..." type commentary keeps showing up, a LOT. This would only make sense, given the ingredient profile and what it "puts back", insofar as cellular energy substrates, proposed MOA etc.

    BEST EXAMPLE: pmartinez78

    pmartinez78 wrote:

    "Well I finished my 1st bottle of MPS this Saturday. In 3 weeks of using MPS, I lost 2lbs, lost 1% bf, and lost 1 inch off my waist where I have the last bit of fat. There was no muscle gains nor any muscle loss either.

    Now again, keep in mind that I did not follow any diet plan and did not count calories either. I stayed fasted till after 6pm and pretty much ate whatever I wanted. If I have to guess, I'd say my calorie intake was around 60% on a daily basis. No other suppliment was used other than MPS.

    Overall I'm pretty impressed with MPS. It allowed me to go strong in the gym even in a fasted state. It allowed me to eat whatever I wanted in the evening and still lose bf and it completely eliminated DOMS after the first week. I haven't been sore since then..."

    In the spirit of staying on topic, I think this thread provided evidence of Ecdy's potential as a non-hormonal adaptogenic/therapeutic agent. It's far from "mystery solved", but there's clearly something going on for many users. Whether or not it passes your personal cost/benefit ratio test, I suppose only you can answer...

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post

    With respect to Synthagen -
    After looking at BP collective it looks very interesting. Can you post a pic of the lable? I couldn't seem to find one on Musclemass. Also, is currently sold out? ETA on more?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Cool View Post
    After looking at BP collective it looks very interesting. Can you post a pic of the lable? I couldn't seem to find one on Musclemass. Also, is currently sold out? ETA on more?
    Factory fresh Synthagen ships out to MASS on Monday, which means they'll likely have it in stock Thursday/Friday. He's taking pre-orders now, and it's first come first served. Now I know you've heard about possible shortages before, but that did in fact happen after the first two production runs were gobbled up. This run is larger though, and geared to the official launch - so hopefully no "out of stock" issues for awhile.

    Tried attaching a graphic of the label, but it wouldn't take. Here's a link to my FB page, which displays what's in Mass Pro Synthagen. Mods, I hope this is OK. If not please let me know and I'll remove it immediately...

    Rob Regish | Facebook

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick

    Factory fresh Synthagen ships out to MASS on Monday, which means they'll likely have it in stock Thursday/Friday. He's taking pre-orders now, and it's first come first served. Now I know you've heard about possible shortages before, but that did in fact happen after the first two production runs were gobbled up. This run is larger though, and geared to the official launch - so hopefully no "out of stock" issues for awhile.

    Tried attaching a graphic of the label, but it wouldn't take. Here's a link to my FB page, which displays what's in Mass Pro Synthagen. Mods, I hope this is OK. If not please let me know and I'll remove it immediately...

    Rob Regish | Facebook
    Black and white capsules on these batches?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Thanks that was I looking for. On another note, any idea why the I-force ecdy seemed to underwhelm so much?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by southsideguy View Post
    Black and white capsules on these batches?
    Yes indeed...

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Cool View Post
    Thanks that was I looking for. On another note, any idea why the I-force ecdy seemed to underwhelm so much?
    They used the right source genus (Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract), but over-standardized for 20-Hydroxyecdysterone. As I've stated many times, this is a mistake - albeit an understandable one. I surmise they looked at the literature (which is heavy on 20-H), and determined this was the correct Ecdysterone to utilize. It is not, especially orally.

    There are now 463 identified ecdysteroids (see link), of 20-H is just one. More are being discovered every day. The gold standard IMO, is the full spectrum of ecdysteroids (variously referred to as the "levseins complex", in the former Soviet literature), from RCE. They're a grouping of 10 specific ecdysteroids in a very precise ratio, which impart unique benefits. I call it retaining "natures fingerprint".

    It's for this reason, that I included "full spectrum" RCE in Synthagen. The feedback you will find on Synthagen, speaks for itself.

    http://ecdybase.org/

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    It's for this reason, that I included "full spectrum" RCE in Synthagen. The feedback you will find on Synthagen, speaks for itself.

    http://ecdybase.org/
    Yea I'm pretty much sold. Now I just gotta go sell some plasma or sperm or something

  12. i would like to share.. i recently used LGs sublingual substerone and Natadrol both double dosed..currently using the body opus diet i gained and incredible amount of strength and size. i put 10 lbs on in 4 weeks but mostly because the subtle yet obvious increase in hunger.. yet i stayed under maintence every single day... i acheived several PRs and had quite possibly the best recovery ive seen next to using anabolics..

    haveing some past good experience with ecdys i would have to say that LGs actually delivered quite well and i would truely recomend it for people to try... keep in mind i doubled the recomended doses and i stacked with natadrol.. so you can take that for what its worth.. i have no prior experience with natadrol so i can not say if it did or didnt contribute.. i can say tho the classic discription mixel mentioned about ecdy and its benifits, for me atleast, are very very real.

    after reading this entire thread i will be adding ecdy to my next hormone cycle as well!

  13. It is great to see minds opening up to the possibilities of Ecdy, because IMO - the benefits ARE real. An incredible piece of Mass Pro Synthagen feedback was emailed to me today. I obtained his permission to use his real name/feedback:

    DAVE ROBICHAUD
    San Luis Obispo, CA.


    "Hi Rob, so I've used the Synthagen now for a total of 12 days. Wanted to wait to see if I was imagining anything. How did u do it? Never used anything except for deca and anadrol that made such a difference in how I feel related to the recovery process. Can I buy stock in it? ha! congratulations.."

    His words, not mine. Nor is Synthagen the only Ecdy based product out there, of course. It's just great to see those willing to give Substerone, Ebol etc. a chance. Because I can confidently say this: Ecdysterone products are light years more effective than they were just 5 years ago, thanks in large part to superior sourcing, brighter minds and a more thorough understanding of Ecdy's vast array of benefits.

    Things only get better, from here...

  14. Woah 12 pages....what have i done!?
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates

  15. Quote Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx View Post
    i would like to share.. i recently used LGs sublingual substerone and Natadrol both double dosed..currently using the body opus diet i gained and incredible amount of strength and size. i put 10 lbs on in 4 weeks but mostly because the subtle yet obvious increase in hunger.. yet i stayed under maintence every single day... i acheived several PRs and had quite possibly the best recovery ive seen next to using anabolics..

    haveing some past good experience with ecdys i would have to say that LGs actually delivered quite well and i would truely recomend it for people to try... keep in mind i doubled the recomended doses and i stacked with natadrol.. so you can take that for what its worth.. i have no prior experience with natadrol so i can not say if it did or didnt contribute.. i can say tho the classic discription mixel mentioned about ecdy and its benifits, for me atleast, are very very real.

    after reading this entire thread i will be adding ecdy to my next hormone cycle as well!
    I have used Natadrol on it's own and alongside Substerone (as part of a sponsored stack log). For me the results on Natadrol were on par with the results stacking with Substerone. I would purchase the Natadrol with my own money but would not use it on Substerone again.
    PEScience Representative
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com

  16. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I would purchase the Natadrol with my own money but would not use it on Substerone again.
    Care to elaborate on your training/diet while using? Seems to be the key, and not just conventional "train hard and eat well".

  17. Sure, here is everything in detail.

    anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/190993-bdccs-lg-sciences.html
    PEScience Representative
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Cool View Post
    Yea I'm pretty much sold. Now I just gotta go sell some plasma or sperm or something
    It's was in stock and shipped last Friday. The response/re-order rate for Mass Pro Synthagen has been so great, MASS just ordered back up and 2 more runs from the lab.

    Now for anyone interested, DAVE ROBICHAUD (who favorably compared Synthagen's recovery properties to Deca and Anadrol), will be on SHR this coming Tuesday. NOTE: This wasn't at my request, he apparently called the SHR studio to express how happy he was with the product. I know we've ALL heard this before, "miracle supplement finally here...".

    I'm not here to proclaim it a miracle, but simply state that it's worthy of your consideration. It has been called a "game changer"/"revolutionary" and "the single best supplement I have ever used...". These are REAL people's words, not mine. Rather than take my word for it, I'd encourage you to speak to ANYONE who's used Synthagen - or listen to Dave to see if it's right for you.

    I'll also be the first to tell you the FUNDAMENTALS of training, diet, rest etc. will ALWAYS trump ANY supplement - including mine. That's just the truth, and it's never going to change...




  19. mixel what is the price point and how many bottles to run a 8 week cycle for a 200 lber?
    This Spot For Sale

  20. Quote Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx View Post
    mixel what is the price point and how many bottles to run a 8 week cycle for a 200 lber?
    If you order the 3 bottle special, it brings it down to about $56/bottle - including shipping. We're seeing great results at just 10 tabs/day - or a shade over $2/day. We're still working out the optimal dose protocol, but the good news is this: The finished product is considerably stronger than the prototype I was running (likely due to the superior raws, MASS was able to source). Which means this...

    Each bottle will last roughly a month then, at 10tabs/day.

    I've spoken to many that are north of 200lbs though, that do fine on just 4 caps pre/post workout on training days, and a similar amount on off days. It's simply a matter of dialing in your dosing. Along those lines, here's what I'd recommend

    7 caps preworkout/7post, out of the gate. This should obliterate DOMS the very first workout, for almost anyone. At the very most, I've heard it takes one week. Thereafter, reduce that to 6 and 6, 5 and 5 etc. until such time as you establish your lowest effective dose pre/post workout. Just makes sense, financially and physiologically to use the lowest effective dose for YOU.

    Off days, the product excels when taken 10min before meals. If eating frequently (every 2-3 hours), consider 2-3 caps prior to your 3 biggest meals of the day. If using IF (which many are thriving on), consider dosing 5 prior to your 1 or 2 big meals.

    I do NOT recommend using the product all day/every day as some would espouse, especially if running BP. In fact, I'm currently suggesting you just run it during the Feast phase, or the 6-8 weeks of your most intense/heaviest loading. Having said that, people like it so much they're now using it during Cruise. If you plan to use it without BP, I'd likewise recommend using it for up to 8 weeks, with perhaps 2-4 weeks off.

    Given all that it does and the fact many have found it to cut their supp/food bill substantially, it's seen as a "core companion" product among most of The BP Army. Meaning other products may be rotated in/out of the mix such as test boosters, NO products, creatines etc. - but Synthagen stays. This due in part, to the fact it seems to magnify and tie together everything else you use/eat. That may sound like hyperbole, but anyone using the product will confirm. In fact, I encourage you to contact them to validate what I'm saying. Some have even dropped that "mandatory" 5lb bag of whey every month - and are thriving.

    Coming off is the eye opener. B/C it ain't pleasant...

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Thank you.

    I didn't mean to suggest waiting that long, just an observation on my part. The test of time is most telling. I like flipping through old musclemags from years ago. 99% of the "hot" products then, aren't around today. A scant few are. Those are the ones I look further into, trying to understand why...
    Mixel I was going to mention your name but I see I'm too late. Everytime I see a thread on eddy your name pops into my head.


























    And yes in a dirty way.

  22. argh its so tempting to try, wish it was a little cheaper for a first run. picked up some 100% natural tart cherry juice yesterday, expensive there too.

  23. Just got done reading the entire thread. Honestly it almost sounds like I maybe wouldn't want to try the stuff, because if it really is effective then coming off would be a pain in terms of "withdrawal" from feeling old and crappy.

    Mixel, in terms of the quinoa statement you made on page 2: I thought what you're able to buy at a grocery store for quinoa was the seed? I buy the giant Costco bags and it's all just the small circular crap in there that looks like a seed. Upon boiling those spirals come off the outside and you're just left with a softer version of the stuff.

  24. That's a good thing (I guess). You see, I believe in this compound. I believed in it when everyone in the world was trashing it, and believed in it so much - wrote a book on it (3, in fact) and elected to create my first supplement - Mass Pro Synthagen, around the compound.

    I've swallowed it, used it transdermally, made sublinguals and I'm about to help a REAL close friend embark on a "super concentrated transdermal" run of it, LOL.

    It won't happen in my lifetime, by you can write this down: Ecdysterone(s) will ultimately prove to have more health related benefits for humans than fish oil.

    They can laugh at me all they want, but even as we speak - research at the University of Szeged in Hungary (http://www.u-szeged.hu/english/ - http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysterone.html), Rutgers in this country (http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroids.html) and elsewhere (http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronejoints.html) are proving I'm right..

    Put my name on that. When it bears out, maybe someone will carve it into my headstone LOL....

  25. Quote Originally Posted by RD929 View Post
    Just got done reading the entire thread. Honestly it almost sounds like I maybe wouldn't want to try the stuff, because if it really is effective then coming off would be a pain in terms of "withdrawal" from feeling old and crappy.

    Mixel, in terms of the quinoa statement you made on page 2: I thought what you're able to buy at a grocery store for quinoa was the seed? I buy the giant Costco bags and it's all just the small circular crap in there that looks like a seed. Upon boiling those spirals come off the outside and you're just left with a softer version of the stuff.
    Very true..

    You can man up and chew the seeds though, if you have alligator arms (I do). However, let me say this about "coming off" Synthagen, E-bol, Kre-Anabolyn or any other quality Ecdy - there's a right and a wrong way, such that you don't feel "old"/"hit by a freight train"...

    The good news is - IT WORKS! The bad news? IT WORKS!

    If it didn't, you wouldn't be in this quandry. Then again, you'd be wasting your money/time too...
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