Ecdysterone yes or no?
- 06-23-2012, 08:56 AM
- 06-23-2012, 10:12 AM
argh its so tempting to try, wish it was a little cheaper for a first run. picked up some 100% natural tart cherry juice yesterday, expensive there too.
06-23-2012, 10:14 AM
Just got done reading the entire thread. Honestly it almost sounds like I maybe wouldn't want to try the stuff, because if it really is effective then coming off would be a pain in terms of "withdrawal" from feeling old and crappy.
Mixel, in terms of the quinoa statement you made on page 2: I thought what you're able to buy at a grocery store for quinoa was the seed? I buy the giant Costco bags and it's all just the small circular crap in there that looks like a seed. Upon boiling those spirals come off the outside and you're just left with a softer version of the stuff.
06-23-2012, 10:17 AM
That's a good thing (I guess). You see, I believe in this compound. I believed in it when everyone in the world was trashing it, and believed in it so much - wrote a book on it (3, in fact) and elected to create my first supplement - Mass Pro Synthagen, around the compound.
I've swallowed it, used it transdermally, made sublinguals and I'm about to help a REAL close friend embark on a "super concentrated transdermal" run of it, LOL.
It won't happen in my lifetime, by you can write this down: Ecdysterone(s) will ultimately prove to have more health related benefits for humans than fish oil.
They can laugh at me all they want, but even as we speak - research at the University of Szeged in Hungary (http://www.u-szeged.hu/english/ - http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysterone.html), Rutgers in this country (http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroids.html) and elsewhere (http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronejoints.html) are proving I'm right..
Put my name on that. When it bears out, maybe someone will carve it into my headstone LOL....
06-23-2012, 10:20 AM
You can man up and chew the seeds though, if you have alligator arms (I do). However, let me say this about "coming off" Synthagen, E-bol, Kre-Anabolyn or any other quality Ecdy - there's a right and a wrong way, such that you don't feel "old"/"hit by a freight train"...
The good news is - IT WORKS! The bad news? IT WORKS!
If it didn't, you wouldn't be in this quandry. Then again, you'd be wasting your money/time too...
06-23-2012, 10:22 AM
Tart cherry juice is in fact expensive. In part, you can thank our wonderful FDA for their draconian treatment of those diabolical cherry farmers. See, Rx drugs IN THEIR PRESCRIBED DOSAGES are now the #1 KILLER OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.
When you're the FDA though, you don't go after those you're in bed with (cough, cough - BIG PHARMA). You go after cherry farmers/other well meaning citizens, that are growing natural products that in many cases are as as effective (or moreso), than NSAIDS.
06-23-2012, 10:26 AM
06-23-2012, 10:32 AM
Was it worth it? No. Do I regret trying? Hell no.
I could tell as much, just by looking at the Ecdy content therein. So why did I try? B/C you never know. I still feel it's one of a few "supergrains" that are superb, and one of the VERY few plant sources of protein, with a COMPLETE amino acid profile.
Your best bet (on a budget) for trying Ecdy is looking for a good spinach extract. They do exist, but are difficult to locate. They won't outperform something like Synthagen/Ebol, but they will impart a noticeable effect on DOMS, work capacity etc. over time. Excellent for alkalizing the system too, or at least tipping the balance in that direction. Many reading this will benefit from that tip.
How do I know?
Well, what does it tell you when the whole world around us is popping ant-acids? You don't see many ant-alkilizers for sale, do you? LOL...
06-23-2012, 03:53 PM
What exactly is the tart cherry for? Digestion? More? As far as the formula, care to share why you didn't use any of the standard GDA ingrediants like ALA, corosolic, cinnamon, etc.?
07-01-2012, 10:55 AM
07-01-2012, 11:40 AM
Any feedback from users with chronic injuries/pain? I have herniated discs that are constantly burning and torturing me, not to mention limit my workout. I wonder how MPS will effect non workout related inflamation.
07-01-2012, 11:13 PM
why would one want to come off ecdy products.? whats the longest its been ran u are aware of? dose ht ehalf life present toxicity issues in longterm
FINAFLEX forum rep
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07-02-2012, 04:57 PM
Never have I seen people just readily lap up so much obvious supplement pimping from one guy...ecdysterone comparable to nandrolone and anadrol? Give me a break!
Eliminating DOMS from working upper body muscle groups? This won't happen even when running a gram or more of test (unless you just aren't training hard).
I've noticed PA has been mysteriously silent in this thread the last few pages too, presumably he doesn't want his name/posts associated with some of the ridiculous claims made more recently in this thread.
By the way, the Quinoa 'grain' that you get at the store for eating IS the same thing as quinoa seeds (just to correct some more misinformation). I have been eating close to 100g/day of the stuff for months now, since I just add it into my protein shakes raw for the protein, fibrous carb, and TMG benefits. However, that would supposedly be providing more ecdysterones than most supplements do...
No, I have not noticed any miraculous results from the quinoa. The 750mg test/week I am running though has worked out nicely, and probably cost me little more per month than some of these ecdysteroid supplements would!
07-02-2012, 05:27 PM
07-02-2012, 06:22 PM
07-02-2012, 07:55 PM
07-02-2012, 08:06 PM
07-03-2012, 09:37 AM
there need to be more human studies i agree. animal studies do suggest possibilities however there have been conflicting results
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
07-03-2012, 09:47 AM
"Mass Pro Synthagen review: I'm 63. I'm informed when it comes to diet, exercise and food form supplements. My knees, back, hip and father time try to kick my azz every day and each day I spend time, energy and resources fighting back. Out of the box, NOTHING has ever helped my fight more than Mass Pro Synthagen. IMO, this product is more important for seniors than it is for bodybuilders. The need is just more critical for my demographic. Four days in to it, I'm doing 2 caps with meals and supplements, 4 caps before workouts, 4 caps after and 4 caps at bed time. I purposely worked out 25% HARDER yesterday (and loved every minute of it by the way) just to see how I would feel today. Under normal circumstances, I would have crawled out of bed hobbling, moaning and groaning because I overdid it the day before. NOT SO....
I felt LESS pain than usual this morning and am ready and looking forward to another intense workout today. This is the MOST immediately effective and beneficial supplement that I have EVER experienced. A God send for sure!! I couldn't wait to write this testimonial (I don't need to wait)....It's THAT good. Wake up seniors...you have more quality living to do than you ever realized. The improved 'sense of well being' (I believe) comes simply from feeling and being STRONGER. Thank you for this product...thank you VERY much!!"
Whatever your opinion of Ecdy - Randy is a REAL person, getting REAL results. I'm grateful he's benefiting from Synthagen's MANY benefits...
07-03-2012, 09:58 AM
07-03-2012, 10:26 AM
Obviously, we differ on Ecdy's efficacy. What I'd like to point out, is that the favorable comparison of Synthagen's recovery merits to androgens has come from MORE than one guy, that's used both. I've never used the illegal stuff, so it wouldn't be fair for me to make the comparison. I did use many of the PH's back in the day up to and including Methyl-1test and will tell you in all candor that Synthagen blows it away for recovery. Will Synthagen put 1lb/day on you and blow you up like M1T/Superdrol, etc? Of course not. Nobody's claiming that.
"Eliminating DOMS from working upper body muscle groups? This won't happen even when running a gram or more of test (unless you just aren't training hard)..."
It's happening out there right now, today boss. Again, I'll give you the names of REAL people and you feel free to follow up with them. Deal? Or are you afraid of what you may hear?
I would hope you'd at least try it, before speaking out against it? That would seem only logical/fair...
Synthagen does in fact wipe out DOMS. You want the feedback on that from more REAL people? Just give me the word, I have volumes and they keep coming in daily.
You haven't noticed anything miraculous with your quinoa intake? Yeah, I'd suppose that'd be the case, when you're running 750mg of test. To this, I've already stated the Ecdysteroids contained therin ain't optimal. I don't know how many times I have to say it: 20H is near worthless orally.
20-Hydroxyecdysone 158.4 microgram/gram Makisterone A 4.8 microgram/gram 24-Epi-makisterone A 4.4 microgram/gram 24(28)-Dehydro-makisterone A 4.4 microgram/gram Polypodine B 3.4 microgram/gram Makisterone C 1.2 microgram/gram 2-Deoxy-20-hydroxyecdysone 0.8 microgram/gram 2-Deoxy-20,26-dihydroxyecdysone 0.8 microgram/gram 5-Hydroxy-24(28)-dehydromakisterone A 0.3 microgram/gram Dacrysterone 0.13 microgram/gram 24,25-Dehydroinokosterone 0.13 microgram/gram 3-Epi-2-deoxy-20-hydroxyecdysone 0.05 microgram/gram 25,27-Dehydroinokosterone 0.05 microgram/gr
Look man, if you did your homework you'd know your Ecdy "source" isn't the best, to make any type of comparison. You'd also know that Synthagen is a LOT more than Ecdy. In fact, the RCE I used as the source genus is just one of MANY ingredients therein.
You don't care for Ecdy/don't feel you benefit from it? No skin off my back. I'm not here to try and convince you, but the comparison's you're drawing are woefully lacking, as is your understanding of the compound. Keep shooting up that test though, b/c as long as you're on it you have ALL the answers, until you come off....
07-03-2012, 10:30 AM
Really? Then why do we test for it it sports - and why are you using 750mg/test right now? Maybe, just maybe the book on Ecdy is still being written. You're a psychic though, and apparently know how that's going to pan out.
And oh, you've been here for nearly 9 years - and you have 7 posts. Says alot...
07-03-2012, 05:25 PM
You are right that some early studies on AAS concluded that they had no benefit for strength, muscle size, or performance. However, these studies were done with very low doses and were offset by a very large body of anecdotal evidence that gear works and that it works well.
Remember the "word of mouth" you mentioned earlier that is necessary for selling something so miraculous as your ecdysterone in the bodybuilding world? Word of mouth got around fast shortly after hormones were marketed some decades ago because the stuff simply worked.
Ecdysterone has been around for years now and still nobody's talking about it. Hell, when the original Progenex came out, word of mouth was enough to sell that stuff like crazy for a while. I'm actually convinced it must have been spiked with something...but you are one of maybe a half dozen people I've ever seen pimping this ecdy. stuff, and you expect people to just take your word for it. I take it you are a paid/sponsored rep for this synthagen company? Please admit your bias and conflicts of interest if you have any respect for an impartial discussion.
Maybe the book on everything is still being written. Maybe in 10 years there will be studies showing that cow **** is 10X as anabolic as dianabol..."maybe...", can be said about anything. That is a poor argument. Creatine and pro-hormones both have volumes of studies and anecdotal evidence backing their effectiveness. Ecdysterones have seemed to have proven unworthy for further research...
That you refer to M1T as a "PH" further shows your ignorance. It is an active steroid, not a PH, so yes, you have used steroids, though it may very well have been legal at the time. The comparison between M1T and your herbal extract is ridiculous. If synthagen is so amazing that it can improve noticed recovery more than one of the most powerful anabolics on the market, the company should be giving bottles away for people to test because it would surely fly off the shelves once people notice such results and want to buy more.
07-05-2012, 01:28 PM
Oh my, what's this? Momma' couldn't help you understand? The innocence lost, between a boy and a man is - JUDGMENT DAY. You ready boss? Now we go to school...
The comparison between M1T and your herbal extract is ridiculous.
A. One more time, since you're slow: Synthagen contains 16 ingredients, just one of which is an herbal extract. I know this is hard, but go back and re-read the distinction I made between RECOVERY and LBM gains. If Mommy can't help you with that or you need more help, use my phone # - I'm willing to help you.
See what a nice guy I am?
If synthagen is so amazing that it can improve noticed recovery more than one of the most powerful anabolics on the market, the company should be giving bottles away for people to test because it would surely fly off the shelves once people notice such results and want to buy more.
A. Speaking of ignorance, let me clue you in on something Slappy. When companies give "free samples" away, they're (at best) swaying customer feedback favorably. For example, let's say someone gave you something for free - like an education. Normal people (perhaps even you), would express some type of gratitude. That all too often comes out in a "favorable" review.
We (Muscle and Sports Science and myself - to make it easier for you), don't have to give Synthagen away for free. You know why boss? Because when a product really WORKS, you don't need to do that. The glowing reviews you see here and elsewhere about it? We didn't give them ANYTHING for those testimonials. They PAID for the product. In fact, the last episode of SuperHumanRadio.com (episode 1004, again to make it easy on you) features a law enforcement officer who's quite skeptical of supplements, and in fact called out several of their advertisers.
Is it getting through Slappy? A bit clearer for you now?
Let's make it simple, so someone like you can understand it: Synthagen is flying off the shelves, and in fact we just ordered two batches of back up from the lab to keep up with demand. Why is that again? Wait, wait for it...
Because it WORKS.
There you go boss, I've done the best I could for you. Now I know homework might interfere with your injection schedule, but I've given you your assignment. Get on the stick, and let me know what you find out...
07-05-2012, 01:33 PM
07-05-2012, 03:29 PM
lol. Quite the epic rant/meltdown there. But in the end you posted no new info; you are a broken record.
Continue pimping the stuff, and everybody else will continue not buying it. When you find some real human studies that support your absurd claims, feel free to post them up.
07-05-2012, 07:33 PM
Mixel would you mind posting the Nutritional Facts label for Synthagen?
BeBig22- did you ever use the original Progenex? If so, Ascend Elite who only sells out of AU and has no US distributors still has the original product, it was under MG's patent so they still sell it under their company. Try it and see if it was the same stuff? Unless they've been spiking that too in which case...that might be moot. And then PA can test it (again only if you provide enough beer and red velvet cupcakes. And it better be quality! None of this grainy frosting crap!)
07-06-2012, 04:24 PM
One of the guys from the Progenex company, who was involved in the legal dispute with Connelly, claimed that the 'more muscle' product was simply a whey protein concentrate loaded with extra lactoferrin.
07-08-2012, 01:37 AM
07-08-2012, 01:43 AM
"I'm sorry but it is not possible to buy our products for shipment outside of Australia directly from the ASCEND website at this point. In Australia, the products may also be purchased from some online retailers such as www.completehealth.com.au who may possibly ship the products to the USA for you. "
That was the reply I got in 2011 from Ascend. And complete health only ships to AU as well. I may have friends in AU who would be willing to send it from AU. Or maybe we can find a forwarding service that is cheap enough. I guess it all depends if it ends up being worth the money.
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