Ecdysterone yes or no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Thank you.

    I didn't mean to suggest waiting that long, just an observation on my part. The test of time is most telling. I like flipping through old musclemags from years ago. 99% of the "hot" products then, aren't around today. A scant few are. Those are the ones I look further into, trying to understand why...
    Mixel I was going to mention your name but I see I'm too late. Everytime I see a thread on eddy your name pops into my head.


























    And yes in a dirty way.

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    argh its so tempting to try, wish it was a little cheaper for a first run. picked up some 100% natural tart cherry juice yesterday, expensive there too.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
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    Just got done reading the entire thread. Honestly it almost sounds like I maybe wouldn't want to try the stuff, because if it really is effective then coming off would be a pain in terms of "withdrawal" from feeling old and crappy.

    Mixel, in terms of the quinoa statement you made on page 2: I thought what you're able to buy at a grocery store for quinoa was the seed? I buy the giant Costco bags and it's all just the small circular crap in there that looks like a seed. Upon boiling those spirals come off the outside and you're just left with a softer version of the stuff.
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    That's a good thing (I guess). You see, I believe in this compound. I believed in it when everyone in the world was trashing it, and believed in it so much - wrote a book on it (3, in fact) and elected to create my first supplement - Mass Pro Synthagen, around the compound.

    I've swallowed it, used it transdermally, made sublinguals and I'm about to help a REAL close friend embark on a "super concentrated transdermal" run of it, LOL.

    It won't happen in my lifetime, by you can write this down: Ecdysterone(s) will ultimately prove to have more health related benefits for humans than fish oil.

    They can laugh at me all they want, but even as we speak - research at the University of Szeged in Hungary (http://www.u-szeged.hu/english/ - http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysterone.html), Rutgers in this country (http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroids.html) and elsewhere (http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronejoints.html) are proving I'm right..

    Put my name on that. When it bears out, maybe someone will carve it into my headstone LOL....
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD929 View Post
    Just got done reading the entire thread. Honestly it almost sounds like I maybe wouldn't want to try the stuff, because if it really is effective then coming off would be a pain in terms of "withdrawal" from feeling old and crappy.

    Mixel, in terms of the quinoa statement you made on page 2: I thought what you're able to buy at a grocery store for quinoa was the seed? I buy the giant Costco bags and it's all just the small circular crap in there that looks like a seed. Upon boiling those spirals come off the outside and you're just left with a softer version of the stuff.
    Very true..

    You can man up and chew the seeds though, if you have alligator arms (I do). However, let me say this about "coming off" Synthagen, E-bol, Kre-Anabolyn or any other quality Ecdy - there's a right and a wrong way, such that you don't feel "old"/"hit by a freight train"...

    The good news is - IT WORKS! The bad news? IT WORKS!

    If it didn't, you wouldn't be in this quandry. Then again, you'd be wasting your money/time too...
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    argh its so tempting to try, wish it was a little cheaper for a first run. picked up some 100% natural tart cherry juice yesterday, expensive there too.
    Many thanks..

    Tart cherry juice is in fact expensive. In part, you can thank our wonderful FDA for their draconian treatment of those diabolical cherry farmers. See, Rx drugs IN THEIR PRESCRIBED DOSAGES are now the #1 KILLER OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.

    When you're the FDA though, you don't go after those you're in bed with (cough, cough - BIG PHARMA). You go after cherry farmers/other well meaning citizens, that are growing natural products that in many cases are as as effective (or moreso), than NSAIDS.

    Bastards..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Very true..

    You can man up and chew the seeds though, if you have alligator arms (I do). However, let me say this about "coming off" Synthagen, E-bol, Kre-Anabolyn or any other quality Ecdy - there's a right and a wrong way, such that you don't feel "old"/"hit by a freight" train.

    The good news is - IT WORKS! The bad news? IT WORKS!

    If it didn't, you wouldn't be in this quandry. Then again, you'd be wasting your money/time too...
    So that is indeed the seed they sell? Does boiling or cooking it somehow rid the ecdy found in there? Have you experimented with eating that much quinoa a day to gauge any kind of results?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD929 View Post
    So that is indeed the seed they sell? Does boiling or cooking it somehow rid the ecdy found in there? Have you experimented with eating that much quinoa a day to gauge any kind of results?
    Yes, boiling/cooking it removes the seed. The spirals you see are what's usually eaten, and there are very little ecdysterones contained therein. But yes, I've eaten so much of it I had to visit the dentist for some chipped teeth.

    Was it worth it? No. Do I regret trying? Hell no.

    I could tell as much, just by looking at the Ecdy content therein. So why did I try? B/C you never know. I still feel it's one of a few "supergrains" that are superb, and one of the VERY few plant sources of protein, with a COMPLETE amino acid profile.

    Your best bet (on a budget) for trying Ecdy is looking for a good spinach extract. They do exist, but are difficult to locate. They won't outperform something like Synthagen/Ebol, but they will impart a noticeable effect on DOMS, work capacity etc. over time. Excellent for alkalizing the system too, or at least tipping the balance in that direction. Many reading this will benefit from that tip.

    How do I know?

    Well, what does it tell you when the whole world around us is popping ant-acids? You don't see many ant-alkilizers for sale, do you? LOL...
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    What exactly is the tart cherry for? Digestion? More? As far as the formula, care to share why you didn't use any of the standard GDA ingrediants like ALA, corosolic, cinnamon, etc.?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cool View Post
    What exactly is the tart cherry for? Digestion? More? As far as the formula, care to share why you didn't use any of the standard GDA ingrediants like ALA, corosolic, cinnamon, etc.?
    While it isn't mandatory, there is research showing tart cherry juice to reduce chronic inflammation, among a host of other health related benefits. I elected NOT to use the other common GDA ingredients such as ALA, etc b/c what's in there already does a FINE job. For example, from my board last night:

    aron7awol



    Joined: 22 Feb 2012
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    Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:52 am Post subject:

    I talked to my dad and wanted to share his feedback. He's now been taking Synthagen for a week and a half. He said he hadn't noticed any difference in how he felt, really, but he did have some blood sugar results to share. He was diagnosed as pre-diabetic recently, so he started tracking his blood sugar in the morning when he wakes up.

    Before he started taking MPS, it was always between 100-119.
    Since he started taking MPS, it has been dropping and has been in the 90s for the last few days..."

    I know what ingredients in Synthagen are responsible for this, and they also convey MULTIPLE other benefits. With only so much cap space, you need to really be smart about which ingredient does what, how it works with the others etc. This just validates for me I made the right choices. So does this feedback, from a 63 year old!

    "Mass Pro Synthagen review:

    I'm 63. I'm informed when it comes to diet, exercise and food form supplements. My knees, back, hip and father time try to kick my azz every day and each day I spend time, energy and resources fighting back. Out of the box, NOTHING has ever helped my fight more than Mass Pro Synthagen. IMO, this product is more important for seniors than it is for bodybuilders. The need is just more critical for my demographic. Four days in to it, I'm doing 2 caps with meals and supplements, 4 caps before workouts, 4 caps after and 4 caps at bed time. I purposely worked out 25% HARDER yesterday (and loved every minute of it by the way) just to see how I would feel today. Under normal circumstances, I would have crawled out of bed hobbling, moaning and groaning because I overdid it the day before.

    NOT SO....I felt LESS pain than usual this morning and am ready and looking forward to another intense workout today. This is the MOST immediately effective and beneficial supplement that I have EVER experienced. A God send for sure!! I couldn't wait to write this testimonial (I don't need to wait)....It's THAT good. Wake up seniors...you have more quality living to do than you ever realized. The improved 'sense of well being' (I believe) comes simply from feeling and being STRONGER. Thank you for this product...thank you VERY much!!.."


    Randy Mordhorst
    Farmington, NM

    These are REAL people, getting REAL results. I couldn't be happier...
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    Any feedback from users with chronic injuries/pain? I have herniated discs that are constantly burning and torturing me, not to mention limit my workout. I wonder how MPS will effect non workout related inflamation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    If you order the 3 bottle special, it brings it down to about $56/bottle - including shipping. We're seeing great results at just 10 tabs/day - or a shade over $2/day. We're still working out the optimal dose protocol, but the good news is this: The finished product is considerably stronger than the prototype I was running (likely due to the superior raws, MASS was able to source). Which means this...

    Each bottle will last roughly a month then, at 10tabs/day.

    I've spoken to many that are north of 200lbs though, that do fine on just 4 caps pre/post workout on training days, and a similar amount on off days. It's simply a matter of dialing in your dosing. Along those lines, here's what I'd recommend

    7 caps preworkout/7post, out of the gate. This should obliterate DOMS the very first workout, for almost anyone. At the very most, I've heard it takes one week. Thereafter, reduce that to 6 and 6, 5 and 5 etc. until such time as you establish your lowest effective dose pre/post workout. Just makes sense, financially and physiologically to use the lowest effective dose for YOU.

    Off days, the product excels when taken 10min before meals. If eating frequently (every 2-3 hours), consider 2-3 caps prior to your 3 biggest meals of the day. If using IF (which many are thriving on), consider dosing 5 prior to your 1 or 2 big meals.

    I do NOT recommend using the product all day/every day as some would espouse, especially if running BP. In fact, I'm currently suggesting you just run it during the Feast phase, or the 6-8 weeks of your most intense/heaviest loading. Having said that, people like it so much they're now using it during Cruise. If you plan to use it without BP, I'd likewise recommend using it for up to 8 weeks, with perhaps 2-4 weeks off.

    Given all that it does and the fact many have found it to cut their supp/food bill substantially, it's seen as a "core companion" product among most of The BP Army. Meaning other products may be rotated in/out of the mix such as test boosters, NO products, creatines etc. - but Synthagen stays. This due in part, to the fact it seems to magnify and tie together everything else you use/eat. That may sound like hyperbole, but anyone using the product will confirm. In fact, I encourage you to contact them to validate what I'm saying. Some have even dropped that "mandatory" 5lb bag of whey every month - and are thriving.

    Coming off is the eye opener. B/C it ain't pleasant...
    no need to tell me.. im a beliver.. always have responded to ecdy products very well and i was thinking i could combine substerone and synthagen ... that might allow me to keep a lower dose and yet keep the ecdy levels high. i seem to remember reading the toxic dose being around 6g?> does that sound right? what is the dosage in synth at 8 pills per.. on the MASS sits i dint find a info label .

    why would one want to come off ecdy products.? whats the longest its been ran u are aware of? dose ht ehalf life present toxicity issues in longterm
    users.
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    Never have I seen people just readily lap up so much obvious supplement pimping from one guy...ecdysterone comparable to nandrolone and anadrol? Give me a break!

    Eliminating DOMS from working upper body muscle groups? This won't happen even when running a gram or more of test (unless you just aren't training hard).

    I've noticed PA has been mysteriously silent in this thread the last few pages too, presumably he doesn't want his name/posts associated with some of the ridiculous claims made more recently in this thread.

    By the way, the Quinoa 'grain' that you get at the store for eating IS the same thing as quinoa seeds (just to correct some more misinformation). I have been eating close to 100g/day of the stuff for months now, since I just add it into my protein shakes raw for the protein, fibrous carb, and TMG benefits. However, that would supposedly be providing more ecdysterones than most supplements do...

    http://www.ergo-log.com/quinoa.html

    No, I have not noticed any miraculous results from the quinoa. The 750mg test/week I am running though has worked out nicely, and probably cost me little more per month than some of these ecdysteroid supplements would!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeBig22 View Post
    Never have I seen people just readily lap up so much obvious supplement pimping from one guy...ecdysterone comparable to nandrolone and anadrol? Give me a break!

    Eliminating DOMS from working upper body muscle groups? This won't happen even when running a gram or more of test (unless you just aren't training hard).

    I've noticed PA has been mysteriously silent in this thread the last few pages too, presumably he doesn't want his name/posts associated with some of the ridiculous claims made more recently in this thread.
    !
    i have only been skimming this thread.

    its not a really big topic of interest to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx View Post
    no need to tell me.. im a beliver..
    Lots of true believers in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeBig22 View Post
    Lots of true believers in this thread.

    So you're saying 750mg of test is better than Quinoa? Please teach us more you douchebag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cool View Post

    So you're saying 750mg of test is better than Quinoa? Please teach us more you douchebag.
    No, I'm saying ecdysterones are bull****. They are not supported by any reputable human studies as far as I'm aware of. Mixelflick is the one who was seriously trying to pass off the idea that this stuff is comparable to gear (whether or not the words were his or those of some supposed testimonial).
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    there need to be more human studies i agree. animal studies do suggest possibilities however there have been conflicting results
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cool View Post
    Any feedback from users with chronic injuries/pain? I have herniated discs that are constantly burning and torturing me, not to mention limit my workout. I wonder how MPS will effect non workout related inflamation.
    We're starting to get feedback from seniors with respect to this topic, I've shared some of that below. Quite honestly though, the injuries you're describing require more aggressive medical treatment (just my opinion). Here then, is the feedback I was referring to:

    "Mass Pro Synthagen review: I'm 63. I'm informed when it comes to diet, exercise and food form supplements. My knees, back, hip and father time try to kick my azz every day and each day I spend time, energy and resources fighting back. Out of the box, NOTHING has ever helped my fight more than Mass Pro Synthagen. IMO, this product is more important for seniors than it is for bodybuilders. The need is just more critical for my demographic. Four days in to it, I'm doing 2 caps with meals and supplements, 4 caps before workouts, 4 caps after and 4 caps at bed time. I purposely worked out 25% HARDER yesterday (and loved every minute of it by the way) just to see how I would feel today. Under normal circumstances, I would have crawled out of bed hobbling, moaning and groaning because I overdid it the day before. NOT SO....

    I felt LESS pain than usual this morning and am ready and looking forward to another intense workout today. This is the MOST immediately effective and beneficial supplement that I have EVER experienced. A God send for sure!! I couldn't wait to write this testimonial (I don't need to wait)....It's THAT good. Wake up seniors...you have more quality living to do than you ever realized. The improved 'sense of well being' (I believe) comes simply from feeling and being STRONGER. Thank you for this product...thank you VERY much!!"


    Randy Mordhorst
    Farmington, NM

    Whatever your opinion of Ecdy - Randy is a REAL person, getting REAL results. I'm grateful he's benefiting from Synthagen's MANY benefits...
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    Quote Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx View Post
    no need to tell me.. im a beliver.. always have responded to ecdy products very well and i was thinking i could combine substerone and synthagen ... that might allow me to keep a lower dose and yet keep the ecdy levels high. i seem to remember reading the toxic dose being around 6g?> does that sound right? what is the dosage in synth at 8 pills per.. on the MASS sits i dint find a info label .

    A. The established LD50 (oral) toxicity of Ecdy is 9 grams.
    http://www.mdidea.com/products/phyto...sterone05.html

    why would one want to come off ecdy products.? whats the longest its been ran u are aware of? dose ht ehalf life present toxicity issues in longterm
    users.
    A. There is no toxicity related concerns, this is more of a practical application call on the users part. I've used Ecdy and the sapogenin analogs for over 20 years. It just makes sense to me that one would use Ecdy when its merits benefit you most: During heavy loading/peaking, when its many benefits (particularly on recovery), can be leveraged.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeBig22 View Post
    Never have I seen people just readily lap up so much obvious supplement pimping from one guy...ecdysterone comparable to nandrolone and anadrol? Give me a break!

    Eliminating DOMS from working upper body muscle groups? This won't happen even when running a gram or more of test (unless you just aren't training hard).

    I've noticed PA has been mysteriously silent in this thread the last few pages too, presumably he doesn't want his name/posts associated with some of the ridiculous claims made more recently in this thread.

    By the way, the Quinoa 'grain' that you get at the store for eating IS the same thing as quinoa seeds (just to correct some more misinformation). I have been eating close to 100g/day of the stuff for months now, since I just add it into my protein shakes raw for the protein, fibrous carb, and TMG benefits. However, that would supposedly be providing more ecdysterones than most supplements do...

    http://www.ergo-log.com/quinoa.html

    No, I have not noticed any miraculous results from the quinoa. The 750mg test/week I am running though has worked out nicely, and probably cost me little more per month than some of these ecdysteroid supplements would!

    Obviously, we differ on Ecdy's efficacy. What I'd like to point out, is that the favorable comparison of Synthagen's recovery merits to androgens has come from MORE than one guy, that's used both. I've never used the illegal stuff, so it wouldn't be fair for me to make the comparison. I did use many of the PH's back in the day up to and including Methyl-1test and will tell you in all candor that Synthagen blows it away for recovery. Will Synthagen put 1lb/day on you and blow you up like M1T/Superdrol, etc? Of course not. Nobody's claiming that.

    "Eliminating DOMS from working upper body muscle groups? This won't happen even when running a gram or more of test (unless you just aren't training hard)..."

    It's happening out there right now, today boss. Again, I'll give you the names of REAL people and you feel free to follow up with them. Deal? Or are you afraid of what you may hear?

    I would hope you'd at least try it, before speaking out against it? That would seem only logical/fair...

    Synthagen does in fact wipe out DOMS. You want the feedback on that from more REAL people? Just give me the word, I have volumes and they keep coming in daily.

    You haven't noticed anything miraculous with your quinoa intake? Yeah, I'd suppose that'd be the case, when you're running 750mg of test. To this, I've already stated the Ecdysteroids contained therin ain't optimal. I don't know how many times I have to say it: 20H is near worthless orally.

    20-Hydroxyecdysone 158.4 microgram/gram
    Makisterone A 4.8 microgram/gram
    24-Epi-makisterone A 4.4 microgram/gram
    24(28)-Dehydro-makisterone A 4.4 microgram/gram
    Polypodine B 3.4 microgram/gram
    Makisterone C 1.2 microgram/gram
    2-Deoxy-20-hydroxyecdysone 0.8 microgram/gram
    2-Deoxy-20,26-dihydroxyecdysone 0.8 microgram/gram
    5-Hydroxy-24(28)-dehydromakisterone A 0.3 microgram/gram
    Dacrysterone 0.13 microgram/gram
    24,25-Dehydroinokosterone 0.13 microgram/gram
    3-Epi-2-deoxy-20-hydroxyecdysone 0.05 microgram/gram
    25,27-Dehydroinokosterone 0.05 microgram/gr

    Look man, if you did your homework you'd know your Ecdy "source" isn't the best, to make any type of comparison. You'd also know that Synthagen is a LOT more than Ecdy. In fact, the RCE I used as the source genus is just one of MANY ingredients therein.

    You don't care for Ecdy/don't feel you benefit from it? No skin off my back. I'm not here to try and convince you, but the comparison's you're drawing are woefully lacking, as is your understanding of the compound. Keep shooting up that test though, b/c as long as you're on it you have ALL the answers, until you come off....
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeBig22 View Post
    No, I'm saying ecdysterones are bull****. They are not supported by any reputable human studies as far as I'm aware of. Mixelflick is the one who was seriously trying to pass off the idea that this stuff is comparable to gear (whether or not the words were his or those of some supposed testimonial).
    Funny you should mention lack of human studies. If you know the history of androgens, many of the first studies done on humans concluded they didn't work. In fact, up until recently the pharma companies included a note in the packaging to the effect that, "this product will not improve athletic performance...".

    Really? Then why do we test for it it sports - and why are you using 750mg/test right now? Maybe, just maybe the book on Ecdy is still being written. You're a psychic though, and apparently know how that's going to pan out.

    Right.

    And oh, you've been here for nearly 9 years - and you have 7 posts. Says alot...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Funny you should mention lack of human studies. If you know the history of androgens, many of the first studies done on humans concluded they didn't work. In fact, up until recently the pharma companies included a note in the packaging to the effect that, "this product will not improve athletic performance...".

    Really? Then why do we test for it it sports - and why are you using 750mg/test right now? Maybe, just maybe the book on Ecdy is still being written. You're a psychic though, and apparently know how that's going to pan out.

    Right.

    And oh, you've been here for nearly 9 years - and you have 7 posts. Says alot...
    I post a lot at other forums, ones that are more focused on actual bodybuilding and not on shilling supplements that are mostly ineffective.

    You are right that some early studies on AAS concluded that they had no benefit for strength, muscle size, or performance. However, these studies were done with very low doses and were offset by a very large body of anecdotal evidence that gear works and that it works well.

    Remember the "word of mouth" you mentioned earlier that is necessary for selling something so miraculous as your ecdysterone in the bodybuilding world? Word of mouth got around fast shortly after hormones were marketed some decades ago because the stuff simply worked.

    Ecdysterone has been around for years now and still nobody's talking about it. Hell, when the original Progenex came out, word of mouth was enough to sell that stuff like crazy for a while. I'm actually convinced it must have been spiked with something...but you are one of maybe a half dozen people I've ever seen pimping this ecdy. stuff, and you expect people to just take your word for it. I take it you are a paid/sponsored rep for this synthagen company? Please admit your bias and conflicts of interest if you have any respect for an impartial discussion.

    Maybe the book on everything is still being written. Maybe in 10 years there will be studies showing that cow **** is 10X as anabolic as dianabol..."maybe...", can be said about anything. That is a poor argument. Creatine and pro-hormones both have volumes of studies and anecdotal evidence backing their effectiveness. Ecdysterones have seemed to have proven unworthy for further research...

    That you refer to M1T as a "PH" further shows your ignorance. It is an active steroid, not a PH, so yes, you have used steroids, though it may very well have been legal at the time. The comparison between M1T and your herbal extract is ridiculous. If synthagen is so amazing that it can improve noticed recovery more than one of the most powerful anabolics on the market, the company should be giving bottles away for people to test because it would surely fly off the shelves once people notice such results and want to buy more.
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    Oh my, what's this? Momma' couldn't help you understand? The innocence lost, between a boy and a man is - JUDGMENT DAY. You ready boss? Now we go to school...


    Quote Originally Posted by BeBig22 View Post
    I post a lot at other forums, ones that are more focused on actual bodybuilding and not on shilling supplements that are mostly ineffective.

    A. Excellent. Perhaps you should stick to what you know then. Because your ignorance on the topic of Ecdysterone has lit this place up like a Christmas tree...

    You are right that some early studies on AAS concluded that they had no benefit for strength, muscle size, or performance. However, these studies were done with very low doses and were offset by a very large body of anecdotal evidence that gear works and that it works well.

    A. No sh!t? Thanks for making my point. You see my friend, time is the ultimate arbitor, and you failed to realize enough time hasn't elapsed (for you anyway), to make an informed decision.

    Remember the "word of mouth" you mentioned earlier that is necessary for selling something so miraculous as your ecdysterone in the bodybuilding world? Word of mouth got around fast shortly after hormones were marketed some decades ago because the stuff simply worked.

    A. And "word of mouth" is getting around about Ecdysterone as well.- as you see in other people's posts in this thread and all over the world. I suppose Dr. Syrov at the Institute of Chemistry and Plant Sciences in Uzbekistan devoted his life to it for jollies, right? Right.

    If this isn't obvious to you, you're either A.) Blind, B.) Stupid or C.) Both.

    My money's on C.


    Ecdysterone has been around for years now and still nobody's talking about it.

    A. Is that so? I wonder why it's being studied by Universities like Rutgers in the United States, overseas at the University of Szegerd in Hungary, Japan, Brazil and elsewhere? That's why Ecdy's use in beefing up livestock is being investigated. They're just funnin' ya' here though, right?

    That's what they do at Elsevier and elsewhere, they like wasting their time/money paying these people to pursue such folly - right boss?

    http://144.206.159.178/ft/38/73414/1258440.pdf


    Hell, when the original Progenex came out, word of mouth was enough to sell that stuff like crazy for a while. I'm actually convinced it must have been spiked with something...but you are one of maybe a half dozen people I've ever seen pimping this ecdy. stuff, and you expect people to just take your word for it. I take it you are a paid/sponsored rep for this synthagen company? Please admit your bias and conflicts of interest if you have any respect for an impartial discussion.

    A. Funny you should mention Dr. Connelly's Progenex. I've spent many hours on the phone discussing it with him, went through bags and bags of it and had access to it even after it wasn't commercially available, then shared that with oh - a dozen of so Blueprint folk. Your irresponsible speculation know no bounds, does it? There was nothing illegal in it, as Scott went through over 600 variations of whey isolate fractions to arrive at the final formula. Keep convincing yourself it was spiked with something, because there's NO possible way someone could EVER come up with something drug free that recovers you that fast, right? Right. That's the conclusion small minds come too. Coincidence in your case, I'm sure.

    but you are one of maybe a half dozen people I've ever seen pimping this ecdy. stuff, and you expect people to just take your word for it. I take it you are a paid/sponsored rep for this synthagen company? Please admit your bias and conflicts of interest if you have any respect for an impartial discussion.

    A. Is that so? A half dozen you say? I supposed Charles Poloquin's Rhaponticum Excellence, MASS's Kre-Anabolyn/Adaptogen N, Thermolife's Ebol, Tonovara's True Turk and oh - dozens of others I could name have never put forth its merits? That's why Thermolife paid through the nose for the exclusive rights to distribute Turkesterone in this country, right? They did that for fun though, just like all of these other companies.

    I don't expect anyone to take my word for it. You see these people posting how it works for them boss? They're real people. Really, you can PM them, get a phone # and even visit. I do. Nothing stopping you from doing the same. I've been discussing the merits of Ecdysterone for two decades. Don't believe that? Google is your friend. Was doing that LONG before I formulated Synthagen. By the way boss, Synthagen isn't a company, it's a product. If people buy Synthagen do I get a cut? Yes I do, because I did all the formula work. Show me where I've ever said otherwise, b/c I can sure show you the day I announced the product was coming, and the fact I'd share in part of the profits.

    How about Kre-Ababolyn or Ebol? I've recommended those for YEARS. Do I get ANYTHING for that? No, I don't. Nothing. Read that again boss, not one red cent. Comprende? Now don't take my word for it boss, there's something called a phone book/that google thing again. You look up Thermolife/CEO Ron Kramer and MASS/CEO John Drake and call them yourself. You're a big boy, I just know you can do it. If you need help, I'm at 860-753-0373. Maybe I can walk you through it...


    Maybe the book on everything is still being written. Maybe in 10 years there will be studies showing that cow **.** is 10X as anabolic as dianabol..."maybe...", can be said about anything. That is a poor argument. Creatine and pro-hormones both have volumes of studies and anecdotal evidence backing their effectiveness. Ecdysterones have seemed to have proven unworthy for further research...

    A. Is that so? Wow, you need to let Rutgers, etc. know right away then they're wasting their time! Here you go boss, I'll even give you their phone #. Have at it son: CALL 732-445-INFO (4636)

    RU-info, a service of Campus Information Services, is the primary source of general information for current students, prospective students, faculty, staff, visitors, and other guests of the Rutgers community. The RU-info Call Center is open Monday–Friday, 8:30 a.m. to 8:30 p.m., and Saturday and Sunday, 10 a.m. to 4 p.m., during fall and spring semesters. During the summer and intersessions, the office is open Monday–Friday, 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
    EMAIL

    You can email your questions anytime through our Ask Colonel Henry Q&A service. Most questions submitted to Colonel Henry are answered in two to three days.
    CHAT

    You may also want to try our new instant messaging chat service. This service is available from 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday through Friday.

    That you refer to M1T as a "PH" further shows your ignorance. It is an active steroid, not a PH, so yes, you have used steroids, though it may very well have been legal at the time. The comparison between M1T and your herbal extract is ridiculous. If synthagen is so amazing that it can improve noticed recovery more than one of the most powerful anabolics on the market, the company should be giving bottles away for people to test because it would surely fly off the shelves once people notice such results and want to buy more.
    A. Wow, we're really grasping for straws aren't we? Obviously, my reference to PH's was covering the PH/PS era. I know all about which hormones require no conversion (M1T, Superdrol, etc.), which do (DHEA, etc.) and even those that there is debate as to whether or not they have intrinsic activity (4-androdiol). You want to keep going with this? I don't particularly like teaching kindergarten, but in your case I'll make an exception...

    The comparison between M1T and your herbal extract is ridiculous.

    A. One more time, since you're slow: Synthagen contains 16 ingredients, just one of which is an herbal extract. I know this is hard, but go back and re-read the distinction I made between RECOVERY and LBM gains. If Mommy can't help you with that or you need more help, use my phone # - I'm willing to help you.

    See what a nice guy I am?

    If synthagen is so amazing that it can improve noticed recovery more than one of the most powerful anabolics on the market, the company should be giving bottles away for people to test because it would surely fly off the shelves once people notice such results and want to buy more.

    A. Speaking of ignorance, let me clue you in on something Slappy. When companies give "free samples" away, they're (at best) swaying customer feedback favorably. For example, let's say someone gave you something for free - like an education. Normal people (perhaps even you), would express some type of gratitude. That all too often comes out in a "favorable" review.

    We (Muscle and Sports Science and myself - to make it easier for you), don't have to give Synthagen away for free. You know why boss? Because when a product really WORKS, you don't need to do that. The glowing reviews you see here and elsewhere about it? We didn't give them ANYTHING for those testimonials. They PAID for the product. In fact, the last episode of SuperHumanRadio.com (episode 1004, again to make it easy on you) features a law enforcement officer who's quite skeptical of supplements, and in fact called out several of their advertisers.

    Is it getting through Slappy? A bit clearer for you now?

    Let's make it simple, so someone like you can understand it: Synthagen is flying off the shelves, and in fact we just ordered two batches of back up from the lab to keep up with demand. Why is that again? Wait, wait for it...

    Because it WORKS.

    There you go boss, I've done the best I could for you. Now I know homework might interfere with your injection schedule, but I've given you your assignment. Get on the stick, and let me know what you find out...

    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Oh my, what's this? Momma' couldn't help you understand? The innocence lost, between a boy and a man is - JUDGMENT DAY. You ready boss? Now we go to school..
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    lol. Quite the epic rant/meltdown there. But in the end you posted no new info; you are a broken record.

    Continue pimping the stuff, and everybody else will continue not buying it. When you find some real human studies that support your absurd claims, feel free to post them up.
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    Mixel would you mind posting the Nutritional Facts label for Synthagen?

    BeBig22- did you ever use the original Progenex? If so, Ascend Elite who only sells out of AU and has no US distributors still has the original product, it was under MG's patent so they still sell it under their company. Try it and see if it was the same stuff? Unless they've been spiking that too in which case...that might be moot. And then PA can test it (again only if you provide enough beer and red velvet cupcakes. And it better be quality! None of this grainy frosting crap!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD929 View Post
    BeBig22- did you ever use the original Progenex? If so, Ascend Elite who only sells out of AU and has no US distributors still has the original product, it was under MG's patent so they still sell it under their company. Try it and see if it was the same stuff? Unless they've been spiking that too in which case...that might be moot. And then PA can test it (again only if you provide enough beer and red velvet cupcakes. And it better be quality! None of this grainy frosting crap!)
    Yep, I did use the original Progenex. The reduced DOMS from that product was similar to being on a low dose of testosterone. I'm aware of Ascend, I remember looking it up a while back and trying to find a website that would ship it to the US.

    One of the guys from the Progenex company, who was involved in the legal dispute with Connelly, claimed that the 'more muscle' product was simply a whey protein concentrate loaded with extra lactoferrin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeBig22 View Post
    Yep, I did use the original Progenex. The reduced DOMS from that product was similar to being on a low dose of testosterone. I'm aware of Ascend, I remember looking it up a while back and trying to find a website that would ship it to the US.

    One of the guys from the Progenex company, who was involved in the legal dispute with Connelly, claimed that the 'more muscle' product was simply a whey protein concentrate loaded with extra lactoferrin.
    I thought Ascend will ship to the US? I'd love to know if it's the legit stuff...maybe we can figure something out...
    The More Muscle product, was the old version or the new version?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeBig22 View Post
    Yep, I did use the original Progenex. The reduced DOMS from that product was similar to being on a low dose of testosterone. I'm aware of Ascend, I remember looking it up a while back and trying to find a website that would ship it to the US.

    One of the guys from the Progenex company, who was involved in the legal dispute with Connelly, claimed that the 'more muscle' product was simply a whey protein concentrate loaded with extra lactoferrin.
    Correction, you are correct.
    "I'm sorry but it is not possible to buy our products for shipment outside of Australia directly from the ASCEND website at this point. In Australia, the products may also be purchased from some online retailers such as www.completehealth.com.au who may possibly ship the products to the USA for you. "

    That was the reply I got in 2011 from Ascend. And complete health only ships to AU as well. I may have friends in AU who would be willing to send it from AU. Or maybe we can find a forwarding service that is cheap enough. I guess it all depends if it ends up being worth the money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD929 View Post
    Correction, you are correct.
    "I'm sorry but it is not possible to buy our products for shipment outside of Australia directly from the ASCEND website at this point. In Australia, the products may also be purchased from some online retailers such as www.completehealth.com.au who may possibly ship the products to the USA for you. "

    That was the reply I got in 2011 from Ascend. And complete health only ships to AU as well. I may have friends in AU who would be willing to send it from AU. Or maybe we can find a forwarding service that is cheap enough. I guess it all depends if it ends up being worth the money.
    I did find a couple of internet retailers that will ship the stuff to the US. I can post links if you want. However the protein is like $90 per kilogram and then you add in overseas shipping which is another $20 or more. Probably not worth it in my mind..

    The original 'more muscle' product is what I got good results from. The 'recovery' worked well too apparently, but I didn't try that one. Once they switched the formula, it didn't produce the results I had noticed previously.
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    Hey Rob, I've probably used allot of gear in my days, Synthagen is the truth my friend..

    See you on the next power hour....
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    btw, i found an affordable source for tart cherry juice concentrate. $30 for enough to make 2 gallons
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeBig22 View Post
    I did find a couple of internet retailers that will ship the stuff to the US. I can post links if you want. However the protein is like $90 per kilogram and then you add in overseas shipping which is another $20 or more. Probably not worth it in my mind..

    The original 'more muscle' product is what I got good results from. The 'recovery' worked well too apparently, but I didn't try that one. Once they switched the formula, it didn't produce the results I had noticed previously.
    PM'd you
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL
    btw, i found an affordable source for tart cherry juice concentrate. $30 for enough to make 2 gallons
    Where?
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    Hello . . I have read most of the above but I still have a question . . now I'm not trying to step on anyone toes or get in on the overall debate here on Ecdysterone but I have a bottle hanging around and I was wondering if I should use it with my H-Drol cycle next month, if so where and at what does. . . it by Sci-Fit and its the 20-bate-Hydroxecdysterone 300mg per cap . . . I was about to toss it in the garbage but after reading this thread I'm like . . . hmmmm? maybe, maybe not

    Thank you to anyone who responds
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    I can get this in Aus? Where! Sweeeet
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    On paper Ecdy is a great product on paper but I have tried it on numerous occasions and from different suppliers, I have even megadosed the stuff and never works for me or anyone else that I know. There must be something I'm missing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    On paper Ecdy is a great product on paper but I have tried it on numerous occasions and from different suppliers, I have even megadosed the stuff and never works for me or anyone else that I know. There must be something I'm missing.
    Well I'm about that same as you . . really didn't do much but since I have it just lying around I'll use it up next month during my Cycle. Figured can't hurt and beats tossing it in the trash like I was going to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southsideguy View Post
    Hey Rob, I've probably used allot of gear in my days, Synthagen is the truth my friend..

    See you on the next power hour....
    Thanks brother,

    This just about says it all. Right now, we're running a 15% off special PLUS FREE US shipping, through Sunday Sept 30th. Just enter Superhumanradio in the voucher section of the order form. MASS is even taking 25% international shipping for those of you overseas! Order the twin pack and we'll even throw in a free Tshirt (not the cheapies either, that fall apart after 1 wash). If you opt for it, please specify your size in the "notes" section of the order form.

    If you've ever wanted to try Mass Pro Synthagen, or love it and want to stock up on it - the time to act is NOW.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  

  
 

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