Ecdysterone yes or no?

[oogaly_boogal]

So every now and again a new study comes out on ecdysterone that says something different. When I was younger I used a bottle of bug juice (ecdysterone) and my traps grew massive. Placebo effect? Puberty? Maybe, I was taking high dosages of it with a high intake of protein and having great results in growth and lifts. The only thing that is bringing me back to this is a new study showing cartilage growth in mice.

Ecdysterone repairs cartilage in joints


I have terrible joints (genetic), and several tears in my meniscus, so something like this coupled with cissus would be a godsend for me. That being said, what is your personal opinion PA.

Many thanks.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

So every now and again a new study comes out on ecdysterone that says something different. When I was younger I used a bottle of bug juice (ecdysterone) and my traps grew massive. Placebo effect? Puberty? Maybe, I was taking high dosages of it with a high intake of protein and having great results in growth and lifts. The only thing that is bringing me back to this is a new study showing cartilage growth in mice.

Ecdysterone repairs cartilage in joints


I have terrible joints (genetic), and several tears in my meniscus, so something like this coupled with cissus would be a godsend for me. That being said, what is your personal opinion PA.

Many thanks.

i really cant take a rat study like that and extrapolate what real world effects it would have on training male humans

 

[oogaly_boogal]

cool thanks.

 

[hvactech]

ecdy has been a huge let down for me in the past...

 

[truthornothin]

I've tried numerous ecdysterone supplements to no avail and with no apparent effect

 

[hvactech]

I've tried numerous ecdysterone supplements to no avail and with no apparent effect

exactly, even at mega doses....

 

[oogaly_boogal]

I guess when I took bugjuice a while back it was all in my head haha

thanks.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I've tried numerous ecdysterone supplements to no avail and with no apparent effect

it may help with sparing protein if ingested with protein

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I guess when I took bugjuice a while back it was all in my head haha

thanks.

it was all in your thorax

 

[AbigailH47]

Thanks buddy, for giving an external link for "Ecdysterone repairs cartilage in joints". Its very useful and i appreciate your discussion above. I want more information, if you could give me some more...

 

[oogaly_boogal]

Thanks buddy, for giving an external link for "Ecdysterone repairs cartilage in joints". Its very useful and i appreciate your discussion above. I want more information, if you could give me some more...

Will provide when I get home. Essentially most ecdysterone studies were done long ago by the Russians. Supposed to help develop muscle while coupled with a high protein diet. Although it's thought now to only work on insects hence the thorax joke.

 

[Powercage]

I've tried numerous ecdysterone supplements to no avail and with no apparent effect

Same

 

[truthornothin]

Will provide when I get home. Essentially most ecdysterone studies were done long ago by the Russians. Supposed to help develop muscle while coupled with a high protein diet. Although it's thought now to only work on insects hence the thorax joke.

Noticed your sig is a quote I posted on Rosie's thread is that where you got it? Just curious

 

[oogaly_boogal]

Noticed your sig is a quote I posted on Rosie's thread is that where you got it? Just curious

No it was my sig on bodybuilding/com

 

[truthornothin]

No it was my sig on bodybuilding/com

Just curious, one of my favorite quotes

 

[oogaly_boogal]

Agreed. That and hubbard's "to escape criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing."

 

[AbigailH47]

Will provide when I get home. Essentially most ecdysterone studies were done long ago by the Russians. Supposed to help develop muscle while coupled with a high protein diet. Although it's thought now to only work on insects hence the thorax joke.

That means Russians are more towards the research for providing a better physique!! Gr8*
Share some links if you can....

 

[oogaly_boogal]

That means Russians are more towards the research for providing a better physique!! Gr8*
Share some links if you can....

The issue with the Russian studies is a lot of them aren't published online, uhm here is a link to a bunch of studies on ecdysterone.

http://www.mendeley.com/tags/*ecdysterone/

 

[BBB]

The Russians inject the stuff.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

The Russians inject the stuff.

it would be very easy to inject ecdy since its water soluble. dissolve some high pure ecdy powder in water, sterilize with syringe filter, and inject

 

[Mixelflick]

Will provide when I get home. Essentially most ecdysterone studies were done long ago by the Russians. Supposed to help develop muscle while coupled with a high protein diet. Although it's thought now to only work on insects hence the thorax joke.

I appreciate your perspective, but this isn't entirely true. For example, research has been conducted in Japan, Germany, Hungary and now the U.S. (see Rutgers study/reference below) that have built upon the former Soviet studies. It would seem that Dr. Syrov's findings are now being confirmed (and will hopefully be taken further), in the West - including right here in the United States:

Ecdysterone Give Rats Mega-Muscles
Ecdysterone gives rat mega-muscles

Ecdysterone Curbs Growth of Fat Tissue
Ecdysteroids curb growth of fat tissue

Ecdysteroids for Younger Skin and More Muscle
Try ecdysteroids for younger skin and more muscle mass

Low Doses of Ecdysteroids Promote Muscle Building
Low doses of ecdysteroids promote muscle building

This is just a small sampling of the MANY positive studies NOT performed in the former Soviet Union/Russia, pointing to evidence that Ecdy is an incredibly versatile nutraceutical. For those interested, I wrote a book on the topic of Adaptogens/Ecdy, and how to properly position them in a training/dietary cycle to reap their many benefits. That book, is entitled "The Blueprint" and I occasionally discuss it on SuperHumanRadio.com.

Low quality extracts and the positioning of an adaptogen/Ecdy as an "anabolic", have also hurt this nutraceutical, and its reputation in the market. High quality Ecdy derived from the source genus Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract and/or a custom 25:1 Suma are excellent sources. Cyanotis Vaga, is not. It is cheap as hell though, which is why you see this inferior source genus used by so many supplement companies in their products.

Once you have a better understanding of Ecdy's MOA (mechanism of action), you can and will see Ecdy's benefit (400+ individual Ecdysterone's, identified to date).

Any and all questions answered. I respect other people's opinions here, and not looking to change anyone's mind. I do however, want the whole story told. It's my opinion that Ecdy's benefits will ultimately be revealed to exceed that of even fish oil. I'll be back later, to expand a bit more on that topic.

Sincerely hope that helps folks here decide, if Ecdy is right for them...

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I appreciate your perspective, but this isn't entirely true. For example, research has been conducted in Japan, Germany, Hungary and now the U.S. (see Rutgers study/reference below) that have built upon the former Soviet studies. It would seem that Dr. Syrov's findings are now being confirmed (and will hopefully be taken further), in the West - including right here in the United States:

Ecdysterone Give Rats Mega-Muscles
Ecdysterone gives rat mega-muscles

Ecdysterone Curbs Growth of Fat Tissue
Ecdysteroids curb growth of fat tissue

Ecdysteroids for Younger Skin and More Muscle
Try ecdysteroids for younger skin and more muscle mass

Low Doses of Ecdysteroids Promote Muscle Building
Low doses of ecdysteroids promote muscle building

This is just a small sampling of the MANY positive studies NOT performed in the former Soviet Union/Russia, pointing to evidence that Ecdy is an incredibly versatile nutraceutical. For those interested, I wrote a book on the topic of Adaptogens/Ecdy, and how to properly position them in a training/dietary cycle to reap their many benefits. That book, is entitled "The Blueprint" and I occasionally discuss it on SuperHumanRadio.com.

Low quality extracts and the positioning of an adaptogen/Ecdy as an "anabolic", have also hurt this nutraceutical, and its reputation in the market. High quality Ecdy derived from the source genus Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract and/or a custom 25:1 Suma are excellent sources. Cyanotis Vaga, is not. It is cheap as hell though, which is why you see this inferior source genus used by so many supplement companies in their products.

Once you have a better understanding of Ecdy's MOA (mechanism of action), you can and will see Ecdy's benefit (400+ individual Ecdysterone's, identified to date).

Any and all questions answered. I respect other people's opinions here, and not looking to change anyone's mind. I do however, want the whole story told. It's my opinion that Ecdy's benefits will ultimately be revealed to exceed that of even fish oil. I'll be back later, to expand a bit more on that topic.

Sincerely hope that helps folks here decide, if Ecdy is right for them...

can i stack it with superdrol?

 

[Alpha R]

The problem with Ecdysterone products on the market, is that they are not properly standardized or dosed. Also, you need a full-spectrum extract, containing a variety of ecdysteroid conmpounds, and not an extract that is standardized just for 20-hydroxyecdysone.

Ecdysterone repairs cartilage in joints
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronejoints.html

Ecdysteroids curb growth of fat tissue
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroids.html

Try ecdysteroids for younger skin and more muscle mass
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroidsyoungerskin.html

Low doses of ecdysteroids promote muscle building
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronemetabolism.html

 

[Mixelflick]

can i stack it with superdrol?

LOL...

Actually, you bring up a great point PA. You know androgens better than any other. As such, you know they work via DNA Transcription, or the message to the cell nucleus to "turn on" protein machinery. Not the only mechanism, but you get my point.

Ecdy has been shown to work via accelerating mRNA Translation, or the rate limiting step in protein synthesis occurring in the ribosome. Ecdy also imparts important protective effects in the liver, kidneys and other organs.

So yes, great tag team. It may well allow people to use less of a given AAS, while reaping the same or even greater benefits. It certainly won't hurt...

I'd always hoped you'd look further into Ecdy, but understand your interest lies in other areas...

 

[Mixelflick]

The problem with Ecdysterone products on the market, is that they are not properly standardized or dosed. Also, you need a full-spectrum extract, containing a variety of ecdysteroid conmpounds, and not an extract that is standardized just for 20-hydroxyecdysone.

Ecdysterone repairs cartilage in joints
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronejoints.html

Ecdysteroids curb growth of fat tissue
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroids.html

Try ecdysteroids for younger skin and more muscle mass
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroidsyoungerskin.html

Low doses of ecdysteroids promote muscle building
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronemetabolism.html

Amen, and something I've been saying for years. In fact, the former Soviet literature concerning Rhaponticum Carthamoides speaks to a very specific grouping of ecdysteroids, referred to as the "levseins" complex. There are also tannins and resins present in this source genus, one of which mitigates carbs being stored as fat.

I've used more 20-H than I care to admit. Orally, it's a complete bust. Transdermally you'll see some of the classic Ecdy benefits (greatly mitigated DOMS, etc), but even those effects took over a gram delivered transdermally/day in a DMSO base. Ironically, it was PA's "odorless" DMSO...

Great stuff btw PA. Wish you still offered it...

 

[truthornothin]

it would be very easy to inject ecdy since its water soluble. dissolve some high pure ecdy powder in water, sterilize with syringe filter, and inject

Do you think that then it may actually do something beneficial?

 

[Alpha R]

Amen, and something I've been saying for years. In fact, the former Soviet literature concerning Rhaponticum Carthamoides speaks to a very specific grouping of ecdysteroids, referred to as the "levseins" complex. There are also tannins and resins present in this source genus, one of which mitigates carbs being stored as fat.

I've used more 20-H than I care to admit. Orally, it's a complete bust. Transdermally you'll see some of the classic Ecdy benefits (greatly mitigated DOMS, etc), but even those effects took over a gram delivered transdermally/day in a DMSO base. Ironically, it was PA's "odorless" DMSO...

Great stuff btw PA. Wish you still offered it...

I know that we've had our PR issues in the past, but SSE's Omnibolic is a PREMIUM Ecdysterone product that delivers solid results. I know Mixel has tried two previous versions, I would love to see a log on our latest version.

 

[Mixelflick]

I know that we've had our PR issues in the past, but SSE's Omnibolic is a PREMIUM Ecdysterone product that delivers solid results. I know Mixel has tried two previous versions, I would love to see a log on our latest version.

Appreciate you comments. However, if I can get a properly sterilized Ecdy injectible - I have a good friend that'll run it.

The issue here, is the sterilization component. The LD50 (lethal dose that killed 50% of the animals in experiments), was something on the order of 9 GRAMS of Ecdy per kg of bodyweight (orally), if I recall correctly. He's very cautious about what he puts into his body, so a home brew is out. Yes, it's possible to do at home but he'd much rather know it was done by someone with greater expertise in this area.

We shall see...

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Amen, and something I've been saying for years. In fact, the former Soviet literature concerning Rhaponticum Carthamoides speaks to a very specific grouping of ecdysteroids, referred to as the "levseins" complex. There are also tannins and resins present in this source genus, one of which mitigates carbs being stored as fat.

I've used more 20-H than I care to admit. Orally, it's a complete bust. Transdermally you'll see some of the classic Ecdy benefits (greatly mitigated DOMS, etc), but even those effects took over a gram delivered transdermally/day in a DMSO base. Ironically, it was PA's "odorless" DMSO...

Great stuff btw PA. Wish you still offered it...

still have a lot of it here. i just dont know how to go about selling it. doesnt really fit into any of our product lines

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Do you think that then it may actually do something beneficial?

we can only speculate

 

[Mixelflick]

still have a lot of it here. i just dont know how to go about selling it. doesnt really fit into any of our product lines

We need to talk...

 

[StackedCop]

We need to talk...

I'll be your guys genie pig

 

[Mixelflick]

Hmmm....

It appears a certain lab rat is about to find out, just what an injectible Ecdy can do. Not me of course, but Kcilflexim. That would be "Mixelflick", spelled backwards.

I'm in daily contact with him, so I'll try to get details as to when he's starting, how he'll run it etc.. Good guy, and knows his Ecdy cold!

 

[daft205]

Hmmm....

It appears a certain lab rat is about to find out, just what an injectible Ecdy can do. Not me of course, but Kcilflexim. That would be "Mixelflick", spelled backwards.

I'm in daily contact with him, so I'll try to get details as to when he's starting, how he'll run it etc.. Good guy, and knows his Ecdy cold!

should be interesting. Once upon a time russianstar, aka prof filimanov, ran an injectable ecdy. I believe he made it himself, and had rather favorable results. I believe he had a log of it here, with the recipe he used. Ps- just picked up the blueprint a few days ago and have been reading all the material- really intrigued- but I must say my head is spinning a bit, lol.

 

[Mixelflick]

should be interesting. Once upon a time russianstar, aka prof filimanov, ran an injectable ecdy. I believe he made it himself, and had rather favorable results. I believe he had a log of it here, with the recipe he used. Ps- just picked up the blueprint a few days ago and have been reading all the material- really intrigued- but I must say my head is spinning a bit, lol.

Understand man, it's a LOT of information. I wanted to over-deliver for people like you, who invested in me/BP.

PM on the way with my cell-phone #. I'm headed back to Gainsville brother - and you're coming with me....

 

[EasyEJL]

The problem with Ecdysterone products on the market, is that they are not properly standardized or dosed. Also, you need a full-spectrum extract, containing a variety of ecdysteroid conmpounds, and not an extract that is standardized just for 20-hydroxyecdysone.

Ecdysterone repairs cartilage in joints
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronejoints.html

Ecdysteroids curb growth of fat tissue
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroids.html

Try ecdysteroids for younger skin and more muscle mass
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroidsyoungerskin.html

Low doses of ecdysteroids promote muscle building
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronemetabolism.html

I read but can't remember where that something on the order of 1 1/2 - 2 cups of quinoa a day reaches the ecdysterone levels as we normally see in products.

 

[Mixelflick]

I read but can't remember where that something on the order of 1 1/2 - 2 cups of quinoa a day reaches the ecdysterone levels as we normally see in products.

True, but these are the seeds - not the grain which is usually left over after cooking....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11368638

[h=1]Ecdysteroids of quinoa seeds (Chenopodium quinoa Willd.).[/h]

Zhu N, Kikuzaki H, Vastano BC, Nakatani N, Karwe MV, Rosen RT, Ho CT.
[h=3]Source[/h]Department of Food Science and Center for Advanced Food Technology, Rutgers University, 65 Dudley Road, New Brunswick, New Jersey 08901-8520, USA.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]Quinoa (Chenopodium quinoa) is a hardy and nutritious Latin American pseudo-cereal. Studies on the seeds led to the isolation of five ecdysteroids using column chromatography. Their structures were determined as ecdysterone, makisterone A, 24-epi-makisterone A, 24(28)-dehydromakisterone A, and 20,26-dihydroxyecdysone by spectroscopic methods. This study demonstrates that quinoa seeds are a source of ecdysteroids, which were reported to be molting hormones in insects.

PMID: 11368638 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
​

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Anabolica--ecdy+ 5a hydroxy laxogenin was apparently supposed to be good stuff. Thermolife apparently has it too in their E-Bol

 

[Mixelflick]

Anabolica--ecdy+ 5a hydroxy laxogenin was apparently supposed to be good stuff. Thermolife apparently has it too in their E-Bol

Anabolica was in fact, a quality product. I confirmed in conversation with Mark Thierman that he produced the raws. Still had a few tabs, and I had those tested to validate they contained 5-alpha-hydroxy laxogenin.

Thermolife's 25-R is not quite the same, but a related compound. The 25-R's are really a series of related compounds, cousins of Compounds I-IV in the former Soviet Literature. I'm speaking now with the person who's in possession of Mark's recipe for synthesizing Laxogenin from diosgenin, and may be working with him in the future on formulation and optimal use protocols for various applications...

Will keep everyone posted!

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I'm speaking now with the person who's in possession of Mark's recipe for synthesizing Laxogenin from diosgenin, and may be working with him in the future on formulation and optimal use protocols for various applications...
!

U want something synthesized you can always come to me. we have actual real chem production equipment and lab, not a bathtub and some litmus paper

 

[Mixelflick]

U want something synthesized you can always come to me. we have actual real chem production equipment and lab, not a bathtub and some litmus paper

Understand and appreciate that PA. In fact, this gentleman had some concerns about where his product is being made. I'll email him now, and be in touch...

 

[Mixelflick]

you have an anglo name yet you sound asian

are you a raw material supplier?

Screams of Cyanotis Vaga...

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Screams of Cyanotis Vaga...

this woman is interjecting herself in all kinds of threads with brief informational statements. Its like she is not reading the thread and just looking at the title and then spouting out a factoid. Its like she is not human but a computer program

its like you are at a party discussing something. Lets say you are discussing salmon dishes. And then this weirdo buts in and says out of nowhere " Salmon - 10 minutes per inch, 400 degrees farhenheit" Like that nerd girl from big bang theory

 

[ax1]

this woman is interjecting herself in all kinds of threads with brief informational statements. Its like she is not reading the thread and just looking at the title and then spouting out a factoid. Its like she is not human but a computer program

its like you are at a party discussing something. Lets say you are discussing salmon dishes. And then this weirdo buts in and says out of nowhere " Salmon - 10 minutes per inch, 400 degrees farhenheit" Like that nerd girl from big bang theory

100 post later they will add spam in their signature.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

I dunno guys...I think she's on to something

 

[Mixelflick]

this woman is interjecting herself in all kinds of threads with brief informational statements. Its like she is not reading the thread and just looking at the title and then spouting out a factoid. Its like she is not human but a computer program

its like you are at a party discussing something. Lets say you are discussing salmon dishes. And then this weirdo buts in and says out of nowhere " Salmon - 10 minutes per inch, 400 degrees farhenheit" Like that nerd girl from big bang theory

Yeah, otherwise known as a spam-bot. I've seen them on my board. Automated, in some fashion to build post counts - then later add a link in their sig (or wherever), to their bunk product. Sad part of the information age...

 

[mr.cooper69]

Yeah, otherwise known as a spam-bot. I've seen them on my board. Automated, in some fashion to build post counts - then later add a link in their sig (or wherever), to their bunk product. Sad part of the information age...

Hey you look really good in your picture can you gave us some more information about your age

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Hey you look really good in your picture can you gave us some more information about your age

no homo?

 

[StackedCop]

no homo?

Homo or gtfo brah

 

[Mixelflick]

Hey you look really good in your picture can you gave us some more information about your age

Turned 42 in January. I sure wish women had the same reaction to my pic, LOL. Chick magnet I ain't. My son is though. Nicholas Maximus can't keep the chiqua's off him...