Ecdysterone yes or no?
- 05-11-2012, 05:38 PM
- 05-11-2012, 08:03 PM
If this is in fact the case, it'll just result in more Ecdy questions vs. answers. Still, it illustrates the fact it CAN be anabolic in muscle tissue. We need more studies in humans, given the potential it holds for sarcopenia/muscle wasting in conditions where traditional anabolics are contra-indicated (i.e. prostate cancer). I fully understand they're pursuing SARM's for this, but Ecdy is far less likely to present the unknown/reported side effects SARM's have presented (i.e. transient visual disturbances, etc.).
05-16-2012, 01:32 PM
05-16-2012, 01:49 PM
05-16-2012, 01:53 PM
05-16-2012, 04:14 PM
05-17-2012, 02:24 AM
05-17-2012, 02:48 AM
05-17-2012, 09:42 AM
i got the full text on the 20E infusion.
the triceps got significantly bigger after 5 days but after 15 they shrunk back down. no other muscles or organs showed any changes
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
05-17-2012, 10:57 AM
05-17-2012, 05:53 PM
EDIT: Found it - There was a significant increase ( p = 0.01) in the mass of triceps brachii in mice treated with 20E for 5 days
So my real question PA is this - Does the full study disclose where the osmotic pump was, perhaps in the tricep?
05-17-2012, 06:04 PM
I don't feel this is a terribly limiting factor.
What I DO think has hurt the most, is positioning of Ecdy as a "steroid replacement". Adaptogens do NOT = Anabolics. Neither in structure nor function. Yet many of the suggestions insofar as optimal dosing mirror those of androgens (cycling, take with extra protein etc.). Big mistake, IMO. No environmental stressor to adapt to?
Adaptogens don't perform well.
Androgens fire the gun for you. Look at the study in the NEJM, I think it was on 600mg testosterone/week. Those guys put on more muscle without training, than hard training naturals 3days/week! Adaptogens are ammunition, but you still have to fire the gun.
Best way I can put it....
05-17-2012, 06:11 PM
05-17-2012, 06:26 PM
And that's exactly what it feels like. I feel beat up/achy from training, don't recover nearly as well and lose the sense of well being it imparts. It also helps me sleep better and seems to increase my VO2 max, for what it's worth. It's just a shame more studies aren't being done...
05-17-2012, 06:34 PM
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
05-17-2012, 07:23 PM
05-17-2012, 07:28 PM
05-17-2012, 07:30 PM
05-17-2012, 07:31 PM
Ive tried iforce... But I dosed it at a whopping 15 caps a day. Results? I had some mean increase in mass of my lats. But I cant give 100% credit to ecdysone as I was training less so I should've had more time to grow. Who knows though?Originally Posted by bigdavid
05-17-2012, 07:32 PM
05-17-2012, 08:03 PM
I wrote "The Blueprint" Ebook, which is an optimal use protocol for adaptogens of sorts. Ecdy research figured prominently in its development. It was published just prior to Ebol's release (2nd version of Ebol, if I'm not mistaken). Almost immediately, my guys running BP paired it with Ebol resulting in incredible success. Today, Ebol has perhaps the longest running, successful track record within BP. It too, would be an excellent choice. If it's pure Ecdy/Ecdy heavy formula you're looking for, Ebol would be my recommendation.
I think you'll find source material for Ecdy is a big issue. You can find "Ecdy" for $300/kilo out of China, but it's largely 20-hydroxyecdysterone from the inferior source genus cyanotis vaga. Thermolife goes to the Institute of Chemistry and Plant Sciences in Uzbekistan for their raws/Rhaponticum/Turkesterone.
Says alot, about the quality of Ecdy in Ebol.
05-17-2012, 08:16 PM
05-17-2012, 08:18 PM
05-17-2012, 08:21 PM
05-17-2012, 08:36 PM
05-17-2012, 08:38 PM
05-17-2012, 11:32 PM
I highly respect the formula, Its easy for me to suggest it.
Leuzea Rhaponticum carthamiodes at an effective dose is a great starting point. Its supporting cast of ingredients make it for something special and different from everything else on the market. I trust the company too, I know their raws are legitimate and the highest quality.
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05-17-2012, 11:34 PM
05-19-2012, 10:45 AM
Here's a SMALL sample, of the feedback we've received in just the first 3 weeks. Keep in mind, nobody got comped product - and these are 100% unsolicited...
GARETH DENYER, CPT - 18 YEARS TRAINING, PREPS TX HS FOOTBALL PLAYERS FOR/DIV. 1
"Just started Synthagen this past Tuesday (May 1st). Using 7 pre and 7 post workout along with 7 at night time and stacking 3 capsules of Adaptogen-N at night time.
Within the past two nights I have slept incredibly well. My workouts on Tues and Thursday were the two best I have had in the past month, breaking two PR's and having plenty of stamina even at the end. I wanted to keep working out, which is completely unlike me due to my 15 hour work days and lack of sleep. It's difficult to explain but I have a better sense of well being. I don't feel so damn drained in other words.
I can't wait to see what Synthagen will allow me to accomplish this month! I have to thank Rob for creating this product.
Going on about two weeks of Synthagen and I have to say this supplement has vast array of benefits. The restorative properties and the increased sense of well being is amazing!! Not only can you train harder and increase intensity/density, you wake up the next day with no soreness and ready to train again....you have to literally force yourself to not train on the days you are supposed to take off.
On the days I do take off from training, I am taking 7 caps before and after a gorge meal, eating whatever at high quantities. I have used insulin many times before and it does compare the partitioning properties that Synthagen has....everything you take in makes you full and vascular, the exact opposite of insulin from what I experienced while taking 20 iu's a day. Slin made me bloated and tired, not to mention the water retention was ridiculous even while eating super clean and using Karbolyn.
I'm telling you now this supplement is revolutionary....I'm scared to run out of this stuff. Rob has found something special and we are lucky enough to be first to try it. For those who are wanting to train on the next level, this product will take you there...
"I noticed this morning that the stubborn fat in my lower abs looks like it has gone down a little. Maybe it's just me.
UPDATE: Well it looks like it wasn't just me after all. I decided to measure my waist on Saturday morning to find out if I've lost any bf and it turns out that I have lost 1/2 an inch on my waist where I'm holding the last bit of fat. This is pretty impressive to me because I'm not following any diet plan aside from fasting all day. I don't count calories like a lot of people do and pretty much eat whatever my wife cooks which most of the time isn't all that healthy.
Well I'm sold, Rob. This is what I've been looking for in a supplement. Not only does it make me hit the weights harder, but I eat whatever I want and still lean out. This is awesome.
I got 1 more week of my first bottle. Let's see what happens this week. BTW, I had no DOMS at all during week 2..."
"I've been on MPS for 2 weeks now. See my previous post on page 2 of this thread for details. I want to preface this by saying that I'm REALLLLYYYYY pushing the limits diet/exercise/supplement-wise for the purpose of rapid fat loss for summer.
1) Better rest/refreshed feeling the next day when taken pre-bed
2) A nice sense of well-being at full dose (like Rob said, it's hard to put my finger on, but I feel good)
3) SIGNIFICANTLY reduced DOMS (none on upper body day, MUCH less on lower body day)"
It's still early, but here are the Synthagen hallmarks that are emerging...
1.) Sense of well being, that's difficult to put your finger on - but it's there
2.) Increased work capacity
3.) Increased VO2 max/stamina
4.) GREATLY accelerated recovery/reduced DOMS from exercise
05-21-2012, 11:28 PM
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