Ecdysterone yes or no? - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 3

Ecdysterone yes or no?

Page 3 of 5 First 12345 Last
  1. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Can you recommend a quality company selling ecdy? I have tried it in the past but I did not notice much. I forget what company I used but it seemed like everyone was using a different standardization method.
    Muscle and Sports Science has been offering quality Ecdysterone extracts since 1993. Ax1 very kindly recommended my product, Mass Pro Synthagen. It's my formula, done under MASS's label. It's brand new, contains Ecdy (amongst MANY complimentary ingredients) and the feedback has exceeded even my expectations. The first two batches sold out fast, and we continue to see great things.

    I wrote "The Blueprint" Ebook, which is an optimal use protocol for adaptogens of sorts. Ecdy research figured prominently in its development. It was published just prior to Ebol's release (2nd version of Ebol, if I'm not mistaken). Almost immediately, my guys running BP paired it with Ebol resulting in incredible success. Today, Ebol has perhaps the longest running, successful track record within BP. It too, would be an excellent choice. If it's pure Ecdy/Ecdy heavy formula you're looking for, Ebol would be my recommendation.

    I think you'll find source material for Ecdy is a big issue. You can find "Ecdy" for $300/kilo out of China, but it's largely 20-hydroxyecdysterone from the inferior source genus cyanotis vaga. Thermolife goes to the Institute of Chemistry and Plant Sciences in Uzbekistan for their raws/Rhaponticum/Turkesterone.

    Says alot, about the quality of Ecdy in Ebol.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  2. Senior Member
    bigdavid's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,274
    Rep Power
    19618

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Muscle and Sports Science has been offering quality Ecdysterone extracts since 1993. Ax1 very kindly recommended my product, Mass Pro Synthagen. It's my formula, done under MASS's label. It's brand new, contains Ecdy (amongst MANY complimentary ingredients) and the feedback has exceeded even my expectations. The first two batches sold out fast, and we continue to see great things.

    I wrote "The Blueprint" Ebook, which is an optimal use protocol for adaptogens of sorts. Ecdy research figured prominently in its development. It was published just prior to Ebol's release (2nd version of Ebol, if I'm not mistaken). Almost immediately, my guys running BP paired it with Ebol resulting in incredible success. Today, Ebol has perhaps the longest running, successful track record within BP. It too, would be an excellent choice. If it's pure Ecdy/Ecdy heavy formula you're looking for, Ebol would be my recommendation.

    I think you'll find source material for Ecdy is a big issue. You can find "Ecdy" for $300/kilo out of China, but it's largely 20-hydroxyecdysterone from the inferior source genus cyanotis vaga. Thermolife goes to the Institute of Chemistry and Plant Sciences in Uzbekistan for their raws/Rhaponticum/Turkesterone.

    Says alot, about the quality of Ecdy in Ebol.
    Thank you for the detailed response. I had disregarded ecdy in the past but was not using any of the products that you listed. I am just going to assume that I was not getting quality ecdy and may give it a second shot in the future with one of the products you mentioned.
  3. Diamond Member
    mattrag's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,027
    Rep Power
    335099

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid

    Thank you for the detailed response. I had disregarded ecdy in the past but was not using any of the products that you listed. I am just going to assume that I was not getting quality ecdy and may give it a second shot in the future with one of the products you mentioned.
    If I run mass pro synthagon I will let you know.
    RecoverBro ELITE
    •   
       

  4. Diamond Member
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15,943
    Rep Power
    4568196

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I'm not an insect, so no.
  5. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Thank you for the detailed response. I had disregarded ecdy in the past but was not using any of the products that you listed. I am just going to assume that I was not getting quality ecdy and may give it a second shot in the future with one of the products you mentioned.
    I'm going to PM you a training tip, that you can use with a quality Ecdy. This type of training leverages the point I made, about there being a stress necessary, for adaptogens to work optimally.

    Sincerely hope it helps you...
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  6. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    If I run mass pro synthagon I will let you know.
    Please do man. In the meantime, we have a dosing/feedback thread on The BP Forums you may want to peruse. It may help you figure out where, when and how best to dose it.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  7. ax1
    Elite Member
    ax1's Avatar
    Stats
    4'6"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,383
    Rep Power
    1092781

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Have run it?
    It's OOS now.
    Not yet but plan to at some point (currently running other things to get out of the way).

    I highly respect the formula, Its easy for me to suggest it.

    Leuzea Rhaponticum carthamiodes at an effective dose is a great starting point. Its supporting cast of ingredients make it for something special and different from everything else on the market. I trust the company too, I know their raws are legitimate and the highest quality.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
  8. Diamond Member
    mattrag's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,027
    Rep Power
    335099

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by ax1

    Not yet but plan to at some point (currently running other things to get out of the way).

    I highly respect the formula, Its easy for me to suggest it.

    Leuzea Rhaponticum carthamiodes at an effective dose is a great starting point. Its supporting cast of ingredients make it for something special and different from everything else on the market. I trust the company too, I know their raws are legitimate and the highest quality.
    Nice.
    Thanks for replying
    RecoverBro ELITE
  9. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    If I run mass pro synthagon I will let you know.
    Although the first two batches completely sold out, I'm told a very small run is expected in next Tuesday. Then first week of June, the mother load arrives for the national launch.

    Here's a SMALL sample, of the feedback we've received in just the first 3 weeks. Keep in mind, nobody got comped product - and these are 100% unsolicited...

    GARETH DENYER, CPT - 18 YEARS TRAINING, PREPS TX HS FOOTBALL PLAYERS FOR/DIV. 1

    "Just started Synthagen this past Tuesday (May 1st). Using 7 pre and 7 post workout along with 7 at night time and stacking 3 capsules of Adaptogen-N at night time.

    Within the past two nights I have slept incredibly well. My workouts on Tues and Thursday were the two best I have had in the past month, breaking two PR's and having plenty of stamina even at the end. I wanted to keep working out, which is completely unlike me due to my 15 hour work days and lack of sleep. It's difficult to explain but I have a better sense of well being. I don't feel so damn drained in other words.

    I can't wait to see what Synthagen will allow me to accomplish this month! I have to thank Rob for creating this product.

    Going on about two weeks of Synthagen and I have to say this supplement has vast array of benefits. The restorative properties and the increased sense of well being is amazing!! Not only can you train harder and increase intensity/density, you wake up the next day with no soreness and ready to train again....you have to literally force yourself to not train on the days you are supposed to take off.

    On the days I do take off from training, I am taking 7 caps before and after a gorge meal, eating whatever at high quantities. I have used insulin many times before and it does compare the partitioning properties that Synthagen has....everything you take in makes you full and vascular, the exact opposite of insulin from what I experienced while taking 20 iu's a day. Slin made me bloated and tired, not to mention the water retention was ridiculous even while eating super clean and using Karbolyn.

    I'm telling you now this supplement is revolutionary....I'm scared to run out of this stuff. Rob has found something special and we are lucky enough to be first to try it. For those who are wanting to train on the next level, this product will take you there...

    PMARTINEZ78

    "I noticed this morning that the stubborn fat in my lower abs looks like it has gone down a little. Maybe it's just me.

    UPDATE: Well it looks like it wasn't just me after all. I decided to measure my waist on Saturday morning to find out if I've lost any bf and it turns out that I have lost 1/2 an inch on my waist where I'm holding the last bit of fat. This is pretty impressive to me because I'm not following any diet plan aside from fasting all day. I don't count calories like a lot of people do and pretty much eat whatever my wife cooks which most of the time isn't all that healthy.

    Well I'm sold, Rob. This is what I've been looking for in a supplement. Not only does it make me hit the weights harder, but I eat whatever I want and still lean out. This is awesome.

    I got 1 more week of my first bottle. Let's see what happens this week. BTW, I had no DOMS at all during week 2..."

    THICKETMAN

    "I've been on MPS for 2 weeks now. See my previous post on page 2 of this thread for details. I want to preface this by saying that I'm REALLLLYYYYY pushing the limits diet/exercise/supplement-wise for the purpose of rapid fat loss for summer.

    I echo:

    1) Better rest/refreshed feeling the next day when taken pre-bed
    2) A nice sense of well-being at full dose (like Rob said, it's hard to put my finger on, but I feel good)
    3) SIGNIFICANTLY reduced DOMS (none on upper body day, MUCH less on lower body day)"

    It's still early, but here are the Synthagen hallmarks that are emerging...

    1.) Sense of well being, that's difficult to put your finger on - but it's there
    2.) Increased work capacity
    3.) Increased VO2 max/stamina
    4.) GREATLY accelerated recovery/reduced DOMS from exercise
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  10. Senior Member
    bigdavid's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,274
    Rep Power
    19618

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    I'm going to PM you a training tip, that you can use with a quality Ecdy. This type of training leverages the point I made, about there being a stress necessary, for adaptogens to work optimally.

    Sincerely hope it helps you...
    Would ecdy be a good product for a 5x5 type style program (or even 531 by Wendler)? Bill Starr's 5x5 for example, if you are familiar with it.
  11. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Would ecdy be a good product for a 5x5 type style program (or even 531 by Wendler)? Bill Starr's 5x5 for example, if you are familiar with it.
    Generally speaking, no. I'm going to caveat that though, by saying that for an adaptogen like Ecdy to work optimally - there needs to be a rather profound environmental stress, to adapt to. In the absence of that, adaptogens perform sub-optimally. You also needn't go over-board on the protein, like so many companies will recommend with Ecdy. Fact of the matter is, Ecdy's glucose disposal (and other) properties are as prominent - if not moreso than its effect on protein synthesis.

    In the right formula, you can leverage ALL that Ecdy has to offer. For the record, it offers a LOT. Take a gander... See PDF in particular section 7:

    http://ecdybase.org/index.php?&action=ecdyeffects


    "Effects on vertebrates, including mammals
    1. Effects of exogenous ecdysteroids
    2. Ecdysteroid metabolism in mammals

    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  12. New Member
    southsideguy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    405
    Rep Power
    44224

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick

    Generally speaking, no. I'm going to caveat that though, by saying that for an adaptogen like Ecdy to work optimally - there needs to be a rather profound environmental stress, to adapt to. In the absence of that, adaptogens perform sub-optimally. You also needn't go over-board on the protein, like so many companies will recommend with Ecdy. Fact of the matter is, Ecdy's glucose disposal (and other) properties are as prominent - if not moreso than its effect on protein synthesis.

    In the right formula, you can leverage ALL that Ecdy has to offer. For the record, it offers a LOT. Take a gander... See PDF in particular section 7:

    http://ecdybase.org/index.php?&action=ecdyeffects

    "Effects on vertebrates, including mammals
    [*]Effects of exogenous ecdysteroids[*]Ecdysteroid metabolism in mammals
    Tart Cherry Juice with Synthagen....BOOM!!
  13. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by southsideguy View Post
    Tart Cherry Juice with Synthagen....BOOM!!
    Yeah, it's quite the experience. When I put Synthagen to the test though, I did so in a unique fashion - did everything I could, to subvert the product. Yep, brought protein DOWN to under 75g/day for weeks at a time. Then brought calories way below maintenance. Deliberately tried to over-train, etc.. I still gained in the gym/lost no muscle. That's when I knew it was ready.

    Little wonder then, the slew of positive reviews that have been coming in. The latest was just one such case. He had been ravaged by life, I guess you could say. Here's what went down..

    Mattlaw30



    Joined: 30 Apr 2011
    Posts: 10
    Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject:

    "This product is amazing. In the last month I have been getting over a cold and stressed out beyond belief due to work. Not sleeping or eating well. My body is probably swimming in cortisol. Despite all of this I have been able to workout and make gains using Synthagen; 5 caps before workout, 5 after and 2 in the morning on off days. Visually my shoulders look different. Wider and you can see striations. I love this product..."

    So enough about Synthagen... :-) Here's a relevant question - why don't more companies try doing this, prior to bringing a product to market?

    As I sit here thinking about it, the BEST products I ever used were ones that seemingly made things "failsafe". You know, they had that eerie similarity to androgens insofar as their ability to make up for certain dietary/training or lifestyle faux pas - and you still did well on them. I'm not talking about gross offenses here, like eating at McDonald's every day or partying until 2AM every night. Just the "life happens" stuff.

    Dunno. It just seems to me that it's a good way to go about putting XYZ product to the test.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  14. New Member
    Thunder1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    170
    Rep Power
    253

    Reputation

    ^^^ So your saying volume is the way to go to induce the stress or something like super & drop sets?
  15. Diamond Member
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15,943
    Rep Power
    4568196

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
  16. Diamond Member
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15,943
    Rep Power
    4568196

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Oh no!. No free use allowed!
  17. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    46
    Posts
    31,830
    Rep Power
    768795

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Yeah, it's quite the experience. When I put Synthagen to the test though, I did so in a unique fashion - did everything I could, to subvert the product. Yep, brought protein DOWN to under 75g/day for weeks at a time. Then brought calories way below maintenance. Deliberately tried to over-train, etc.. I still gained in the gym/lost no muscle. That's when I knew it was ready.

    Little wonder then, the slew of positive reviews that have been coming in. The latest was just one such case. He had been ravaged by life, I guess you could say. Here's what went down..

    Mattlaw30



    Joined: 30 Apr 2011
    Posts: 10
    Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject:

    "This product is amazing. In the last month I have been getting over a cold and stressed out beyond belief due to work. Not sleeping or eating well. My body is probably swimming in cortisol. Despite all of this I have been able to workout and make gains using Synthagen; 5 caps before workout, 5 after and 2 in the morning on off days. Visually my shoulders look different. Wider and you can see striations. I love this product..."

    So enough about Synthagen... :-) Here's a relevant question - why don't more companies try doing this, prior to bringing a product to market?

    As I sit here thinking about it, the BEST products I ever used were ones that seemingly made things "failsafe". You know, they had that eerie similarity to androgens insofar as their ability to make up for certain dietary/training or lifestyle faux pas - and you still did well on them. I'm not talking about gross offenses here, like eating at McDonald's every day or partying until 2AM every night. Just the "life happens" stuff.

    Dunno. It just seems to me that it's a good way to go about putting XYZ product to the test.
    you do have me wanting to try synthagen now....

    I think though there are a few reasons that doesn't happen often. For one of course, the supplement companies that are in the advertising in magazines you read, sponsoring serious athletes, etc are in business to make money. Effectiveness of a product often comes quite secondary to ability to sell and make a profit. The less cynical reason is that since they do compete against each other, they have to try and release things rapidly and make changes rapidly to keep from falling behind with their competitors.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
  18. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder1 View Post
    ^^^ So your saying volume is the way to go to induce the stress or something like super & drop sets?
    Not necessarily, no. My point being, when you combine known "negatives" that adversely affect your training (like over-training, too little sleep, sub-maintenance protein/calories to support growth, etc.), it will oftentimes illustrate the efficacy (or lack thereof) of a nutraceutical/supplement. Picture the above scenario with and without the product. When you're in this environment and NOT using the product, your training seems futile.

    When you ARE using the product, you're still getting stronger, going longer and recovering FAST. That's when you know you have something with potential. On the other end of the spectrum, you take the guy who's doing everything right - he's likely going to make gains with or without the product. When the product is added, it's a lot tougher to decipher if gains are above and beyond those of training supplement free.

    Granted, it's not a university study with DEXA scans, bloodwork etc - but as a practical, "real world" test, I rather favor it. Besides, you'd have to be loaded to fund a study like that. Even if results were stellar (and legit), you're going to get cold water thrown on it b/c you (the person selling the product), funded the study.

    Catch - 22...
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  19. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    you do have me wanting to try synthagen now....

    I think though there are a few reasons that doesn't happen often. For one of course, the supplement companies that are in the advertising in magazines you read, sponsoring serious athletes, etc are in business to make money. Effectiveness of a product often comes quite secondary to ability to sell and make a profit. The less cynical reason is that since they do compete against each other, they have to try and release things rapidly and make changes rapidly to keep from falling behind with their competitors.
    You make great points. It just blows my mind that product efficacy comes second to hiring an ad agency, getting some juiced up pro to endorse it and gearing up for methyl 2-test, because methyl 1-test was so "last month".

    In my mind, the true test is as follows...

    1.) The product generates repeat buys, over a decade or more
    2.) The product doesn't need much advertising - it sells itself through word of mouth

    I keep seeing "new"! New doesn't mean better. Better is better....
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  20. Diamond Member
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15,943
    Rep Power
    4568196

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    You make great points. It just blows my mind that product efficacy comes second to hiring an ad agency, getting some juiced up pro to endorse it and gearing up for methyl 2-test, because methyl 1-test was so "last month".

    In my mind, the true test is as follows...

    1.) The product generates repeat buys, over a decade or more
    2.) The product doesn't need much advertising - it sells itself through word of mouth

    I keep seeing "new"! New doesn't mean better. Better is better....

    I'm old so I don't have time to wait over a decade. What you say in this post makes sense though.
  21. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I'm old so I don't have time to wait over a decade. What you say in this post makes sense though.
    Thank you.

    I didn't mean to suggest waiting that long, just an observation on my part. The test of time is most telling. I like flipping through old musclemags from years ago. 99% of the "hot" products then, aren't around today. A scant few are. Those are the ones I look further into, trying to understand why...
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  22. Senior Member
    truthornothin's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,121
    Rep Power
    26984

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I'm old so I don't have time to wait over a decade. What you say in this post makes sense though.
    you're not old, I am old
    E-PHARM Nutrition Representative
    Better one ugly truth than a million pretty lies
    Check Out Ur-Spray and D-Serine at Prototype Nutrition



  23. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    46
    Posts
    31,830
    Rep Power
    768795

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    You make great points. It just blows my mind that product efficacy comes second to hiring an ad agency, getting some juiced up pro to endorse it and gearing up for methyl 2-test, because methyl 1-test was so "last month".

    In my mind, the true test is as follows...

    1.) The product generates repeat buys, over a decade or more
    2.) The product doesn't need much advertising - it sells itself through word of mouth

    I keep seeing "new"! New doesn't mean better. Better is better....
    well, there are a few other parts too as well. in general in sports nutrition now, particularly considering the volume of obesity research a dedcade isn't relevant. The understanding of relatively simple processes and what affects them changes sometimes drammatically in that time. Also, although the no advertising/word of mouth is nice, there is definitely a serious income limitation on that. That doesn't sound relevant, but for the sake of the argument say you want to start some free childhood obesity programs for schools. doing something national just to start it could cost into the hundreds of thousands. You can't make that very easily on word of mouth.

    sure, new doesn't mean better, but neither does old mean better so if you aren't watching what is new, and potentially incorporating it, you may be doing your customers a disservice. Not saying you are, but that the possibility exists.


    btw an interesting article on the tart cherry juice. How long does a bottle of synthagen last? and do you have many/any users who happened to be on TRT using it? just wondering in terms of effectiveness.

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/conte...ry-juice-1448/
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
  24. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    well, there are a few other parts too as well. in general in sports nutrition now, particularly considering the volume of obesity research a dedcade isn't relevant. The understanding of relatively simple processes and what affects them changes sometimes drammatically in that time. Also, although the no advertising/word of mouth is nice, there is definitely a serious income limitation on that. That doesn't sound relevant, but for the sake of the argument say you want to start some free childhood obesity programs for schools. doing something national just to start it could cost into the hundreds of thousands. You can't make that very easily on word of mouth.

    sure, new doesn't mean better, but neither does old mean better so if you aren't watching what is new, and potentially incorporating it, you may be doing your customers a disservice. Not saying you are, but that the possibility exists.


    btw an interesting article on the tart cherry juice. How long does a bottle of synthagen last? and do you have many/any users who happened to be on TRT using it? just wondering in terms of effectiveness.

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/conte...ry-juice-1448/

    I appreciate your commentary/perspective. I do my absolute best, to stay current with the research as well as the "tried and true" stuff. Insofar as the marketing end of things, that's admittedly not my niche. Nor is the bottling, fulfillment/distribution - which is why I elected to private label it, so to speak. I know what my strengths are (and aren't), LOL.

    With respect to Synthagen - A bottle will last most folks almost a month. MANY are doing terrific on just 5 caps, twice a day for a total of 10 caps/day. It's the timing of administration, that need only be dialed in. Pre/post workout on training days is the slam dunk, as is just prior to your largest meal(s) of the day. For some curious reason (I admittedly don't know why - yet), it has a rather profound ability to help you digest a LOT of food, in one sitting. One other note: Someone on my board posted a rather riveting piece about the carcinogens sprayed on non-organic cherries. Fortunately, I always buy the organic cherry juice. I normally see this type of info as too "scare tactic" like, but he's one sharp guy, and posted plenty of backup to make his case.

    Finally, I do have a handful of folks using Synthagen with HRT but not Thyroid Replacement Therapy (assuming that's what you meant, by TRT). I'd surmise it would help with the catabolism thyroid hormones (generally) impart, but being honest - that's speculation on my part. I CAN tell you, "it really shines on a cut..." type commentary keeps showing up, a LOT. This would only make sense, given the ingredient profile and what it "puts back", insofar as cellular energy substrates, proposed MOA etc.

    BEST EXAMPLE: pmartinez78

    pmartinez78 wrote:

    "Well I finished my 1st bottle of MPS this Saturday. In 3 weeks of using MPS, I lost 2lbs, lost 1% bf, and lost 1 inch off my waist where I have the last bit of fat. There was no muscle gains nor any muscle loss either.

    Now again, keep in mind that I did not follow any diet plan and did not count calories either. I stayed fasted till after 6pm and pretty much ate whatever I wanted. If I have to guess, I'd say my calorie intake was around 60% on a daily basis. No other suppliment was used other than MPS.

    Overall I'm pretty impressed with MPS. It allowed me to go strong in the gym even in a fasted state. It allowed me to eat whatever I wanted in the evening and still lose bf and it completely eliminated DOMS after the first week. I haven't been sore since then..."

    In the spirit of staying on topic, I think this thread provided evidence of Ecdy's potential as a non-hormonal adaptogenic/therapeutic agent. It's far from "mystery solved", but there's clearly something going on for many users. Whether or not it passes your personal cost/benefit ratio test, I suppose only you can answer...
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  25. Senior Member
    Cool's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,352
    Rep Power
    111952

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post

    With respect to Synthagen -
    After looking at BP collective it looks very interesting. Can you post a pic of the lable? I couldn't seem to find one on Musclemass. Also, is currently sold out? ETA on more?
  26. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cool View Post
    After looking at BP collective it looks very interesting. Can you post a pic of the lable? I couldn't seem to find one on Musclemass. Also, is currently sold out? ETA on more?
    Factory fresh Synthagen ships out to MASS on Monday, which means they'll likely have it in stock Thursday/Friday. He's taking pre-orders now, and it's first come first served. Now I know you've heard about possible shortages before, but that did in fact happen after the first two production runs were gobbled up. This run is larger though, and geared to the official launch - so hopefully no "out of stock" issues for awhile.

    Tried attaching a graphic of the label, but it wouldn't take. Here's a link to my FB page, which displays what's in Mass Pro Synthagen. Mods, I hope this is OK. If not please let me know and I'll remove it immediately...

    Rob Regish | Facebook
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  27. New Member
    southsideguy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    405
    Rep Power
    44224

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick

    Factory fresh Synthagen ships out to MASS on Monday, which means they'll likely have it in stock Thursday/Friday. He's taking pre-orders now, and it's first come first served. Now I know you've heard about possible shortages before, but that did in fact happen after the first two production runs were gobbled up. This run is larger though, and geared to the official launch - so hopefully no "out of stock" issues for awhile.

    Tried attaching a graphic of the label, but it wouldn't take. Here's a link to my FB page, which displays what's in Mass Pro Synthagen. Mods, I hope this is OK. If not please let me know and I'll remove it immediately...

    Rob Regish | Facebook
    Black and white capsules on these batches?
  28. Senior Member
    Cool's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,352
    Rep Power
    111952

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Thanks that was I looking for. On another note, any idea why the I-force ecdy seemed to underwhelm so much?
  29. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by southsideguy View Post
    Black and white capsules on these batches?
    Yes indeed...
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  30. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cool View Post
    Thanks that was I looking for. On another note, any idea why the I-force ecdy seemed to underwhelm so much?
    They used the right source genus (Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract), but over-standardized for 20-Hydroxyecdysterone. As I've stated many times, this is a mistake - albeit an understandable one. I surmise they looked at the literature (which is heavy on 20-H), and determined this was the correct Ecdysterone to utilize. It is not, especially orally.

    There are now 463 identified ecdysteroids (see link), of 20-H is just one. More are being discovered every day. The gold standard IMO, is the full spectrum of ecdysteroids (variously referred to as the "levseins complex", in the former Soviet literature), from RCE. They're a grouping of 10 specific ecdysteroids in a very precise ratio, which impart unique benefits. I call it retaining "natures fingerprint".

    It's for this reason, that I included "full spectrum" RCE in Synthagen. The feedback you will find on Synthagen, speaks for itself.

    http://ecdybase.org/
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  31. Senior Member
    Cool's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,352
    Rep Power
    111952

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    It's for this reason, that I included "full spectrum" RCE in Synthagen. The feedback you will find on Synthagen, speaks for itself.

    http://ecdybase.org/
    Yea I'm pretty much sold. Now I just gotta go sell some plasma or sperm or something
  32. Senior Member
    xR1pp3Rx's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  222 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,513
    Rep Power
    1020548

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    i would like to share.. i recently used LGs sublingual substerone and Natadrol both double dosed..currently using the body opus diet i gained and incredible amount of strength and size. i put 10 lbs on in 4 weeks but mostly because the subtle yet obvious increase in hunger.. yet i stayed under maintence every single day... i acheived several PRs and had quite possibly the best recovery ive seen next to using anabolics..

    haveing some past good experience with ecdys i would have to say that LGs actually delivered quite well and i would truely recomend it for people to try... keep in mind i doubled the recomended doses and i stacked with natadrol.. so you can take that for what its worth.. i have no prior experience with natadrol so i can not say if it did or didnt contribute.. i can say tho the classic discription mixel mentioned about ecdy and its benifits, for me atleast, are very very real.

    after reading this entire thread i will be adding ecdy to my next hormone cycle as well!
  33. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    It is great to see minds opening up to the possibilities of Ecdy, because IMO - the benefits ARE real. An incredible piece of Mass Pro Synthagen feedback was emailed to me today. I obtained his permission to use his real name/feedback:

    DAVE ROBICHAUD
    San Luis Obispo, CA.


    "Hi Rob, so I've used the Synthagen now for a total of 12 days. Wanted to wait to see if I was imagining anything. How did u do it? Never used anything except for deca and anadrol that made such a difference in how I feel related to the recovery process. Can I buy stock in it? ha! congratulations.."

    His words, not mine. Nor is Synthagen the only Ecdy based product out there, of course. It's just great to see those willing to give Substerone, Ebol etc. a chance. Because I can confidently say this: Ecdysterone products are light years more effective than they were just 5 years ago, thanks in large part to superior sourcing, brighter minds and a more thorough understanding of Ecdy's vast array of benefits.

    Things only get better, from here...
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  34. Senior Member
    oogaly_boogal's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  191 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,524
    Rep Power
    153585

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Woah 12 pages....what have i done!?
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates
  35. Diamond Member
    bdcc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    10,195
    Rep Power
    10502210

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx View Post
    i would like to share.. i recently used LGs sublingual substerone and Natadrol both double dosed..currently using the body opus diet i gained and incredible amount of strength and size. i put 10 lbs on in 4 weeks but mostly because the subtle yet obvious increase in hunger.. yet i stayed under maintence every single day... i acheived several PRs and had quite possibly the best recovery ive seen next to using anabolics..

    haveing some past good experience with ecdys i would have to say that LGs actually delivered quite well and i would truely recomend it for people to try... keep in mind i doubled the recomended doses and i stacked with natadrol.. so you can take that for what its worth.. i have no prior experience with natadrol so i can not say if it did or didnt contribute.. i can say tho the classic discription mixel mentioned about ecdy and its benifits, for me atleast, are very very real.

    after reading this entire thread i will be adding ecdy to my next hormone cycle as well!
    I have used Natadrol on it's own and alongside Substerone (as part of a sponsored stack log). For me the results on Natadrol were on par with the results stacking with Substerone. I would purchase the Natadrol with my own money but would not use it on Substerone again.
    PES Representative
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com
  36. Senior Member
    Cool's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,352
    Rep Power
    111952

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I would purchase the Natadrol with my own money but would not use it on Substerone again.
    Care to elaborate on your training/diet while using? Seems to be the key, and not just conventional "train hard and eat well".
  37. Diamond Member
    bdcc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    10,195
    Rep Power
    10502210

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Sure, here is everything in detail.

    anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/190993-bdccs-lg-sciences.html
    PES Representative
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com
  38. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cool View Post
    Yea I'm pretty much sold. Now I just gotta go sell some plasma or sperm or something
    It's was in stock and shipped last Friday. The response/re-order rate for Mass Pro Synthagen has been so great, MASS just ordered back up and 2 more runs from the lab.

    Now for anyone interested, DAVE ROBICHAUD (who favorably compared Synthagen's recovery properties to Deca and Anadrol), will be on SHR this coming Tuesday. NOTE: This wasn't at my request, he apparently called the SHR studio to express how happy he was with the product. I know we've ALL heard this before, "miracle supplement finally here...".

    I'm not here to proclaim it a miracle, but simply state that it's worthy of your consideration. It has been called a "game changer"/"revolutionary" and "the single best supplement I have ever used...". These are REAL people's words, not mine. Rather than take my word for it, I'd encourage you to speak to ANYONE who's used Synthagen - or listen to Dave to see if it's right for you.

    I'll also be the first to tell you the FUNDAMENTALS of training, diet, rest etc. will ALWAYS trump ANY supplement - including mine. That's just the truth, and it's never going to change...



    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  39. Senior Member
    xR1pp3Rx's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  222 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,513
    Rep Power
    1020548

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    mixel what is the price point and how many bottles to run a 8 week cycle for a 200 lber?
    FINAFLEX forum rep
    visit our website at finaflex.com
  40. Advanced Member
    Mixelflick's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    549
    Rep Power
    11281

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx View Post
    mixel what is the price point and how many bottles to run a 8 week cycle for a 200 lber?
    If you order the 3 bottle special, it brings it down to about $56/bottle - including shipping. We're seeing great results at just 10 tabs/day - or a shade over $2/day. We're still working out the optimal dose protocol, but the good news is this: The finished product is considerably stronger than the prototype I was running (likely due to the superior raws, MASS was able to source). Which means this...

    Each bottle will last roughly a month then, at 10tabs/day.

    I've spoken to many that are north of 200lbs though, that do fine on just 4 caps pre/post workout on training days, and a similar amount on off days. It's simply a matter of dialing in your dosing. Along those lines, here's what I'd recommend

    7 caps preworkout/7post, out of the gate. This should obliterate DOMS the very first workout, for almost anyone. At the very most, I've heard it takes one week. Thereafter, reduce that to 6 and 6, 5 and 5 etc. until such time as you establish your lowest effective dose pre/post workout. Just makes sense, financially and physiologically to use the lowest effective dose for YOU.

    Off days, the product excels when taken 10min before meals. If eating frequently (every 2-3 hours), consider 2-3 caps prior to your 3 biggest meals of the day. If using IF (which many are thriving on), consider dosing 5 prior to your 1 or 2 big meals.

    I do NOT recommend using the product all day/every day as some would espouse, especially if running BP. In fact, I'm currently suggesting you just run it during the Feast phase, or the 6-8 weeks of your most intense/heaviest loading. Having said that, people like it so much they're now using it during Cruise. If you plan to use it without BP, I'd likewise recommend using it for up to 8 weeks, with perhaps 2-4 weeks off.

    Given all that it does and the fact many have found it to cut their supp/food bill substantially, it's seen as a "core companion" product among most of The BP Army. Meaning other products may be rotated in/out of the mix such as test boosters, NO products, creatines etc. - but Synthagen stays. This due in part, to the fact it seems to magnify and tie together everything else you use/eat. That may sound like hyperbole, but anyone using the product will confirm. In fact, I encourage you to contact them to validate what I'm saying. Some have even dropped that "mandatory" 5lb bag of whey every month - and are thriving.

    Coming off is the eye opener. B/C it ain't pleasant...
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Ecdysterone
    By ironparson in forum Supplements
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-07-2009, 05:28 PM
  2. ecdysterone
    By superbot in forum Supplements
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-26-2008, 02:24 PM
  3. About ECDYSTERONE
    By pocketboy in forum Supplements
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 10-22-2007, 02:14 PM
  4. Ecdysterone
    By PH3 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-23-2006, 03:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in