DAA Product Opinions

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    DAA Product Opinions


    Im considering trying out DAA, obvioulsy there are alot of products that contain it or you can buy it in bulk. My main question is what experiences have people had with specific DAA products. How have things like D-pol or Formula X really differed from bulk DAA, what results have anyone really seen that made them a better option than just bulk DAA, cost is not a factor for comparison

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    bump please anyone!
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    What do you want? A fun workout? Just a test boost? What are you looking for from your supp? This will help me recommend a DAA product to you.
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    I already have experienced some intensity in workouts based off test boosting products, but I havent tried vary many, and DAA seems to be alot more accepted as actually increasing test. The thing I dont understand is what the difference between increase in overall test is and just increase in free test. Also I would want advice on how much more effective the DAA seems to be while accompanied by an AI.
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    Again wrong section you don't need to post this in the PA section get more responses in the supplement section. I can tell you what he recommends TestForce2 go buy it now.
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    IM a moron I had no idea it was posted in this section sorry guys
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    Just realized you did this.
    PA is gonna send you poisonous DAA now, he hates noobz!
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    Its a smart idea to take a DAA product that also contains sarcosine

    http://epharmnutrition.com/testforce2.php
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    Its a smart idea to take a DAA product that also contains sarcosine

    http://epharmnutrition.com/testforce2.php
    Very True, in my experience I saw a big difference when I took bulk DAA and a product like Test Force 2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    Its a smart idea to take a DAA product that also contains sarcosine

    http://epharmnutrition.com/testforce2.php
    do you still have the study on this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    do you still have the study on this?
    what study are you referring to?
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    where you showed the link between daa and sarcosine
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    Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    where you showed the link between daa and sarcosine

    its on my hard drive at work. its saturday
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    its on my hard drive at work. its saturday
    Hey this is America. The economy is dwindling. Sometimes you gotta put in some OT.
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    TestForce2

    TestForce2 contains the most soluble form of d-aspartic acid combined with another remarkable amino acid known as sarcosine. This combination provides results clearly superior to other d-aspartic acid product formulations.
    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/User/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gif[/IMG]
    In case you aren’t aware, d-aspartic acid is the hottest supplement ingredient on the market right now. It has more scientific literature supporting its ability to act as a natural regulator of anabolic hormone (i.e. testosterone, growth hormone) release in the body than any supplement ingredient EVER. And E-Pharm was the company to bring you the premium form of d-aspartic acid – d-aspartate calcium chelate. This form is more than 75 times as water soluble as regular d-aspartic acid and soluble over a wide pH range. This ensures the most rapid and complete absorption possible.
    And now E-Pharm has taken the lead in d-aspartic acid technology again with the patent pending addition of the amino acid sarcosine.
    Please allow me to explain why the inclusion of sarcosine is so vital to getting the most out of d-aspartic acid.

    Why Sarcosine?
    Let me start with some background. When d-aspartic acid (DAA) is ingested it is absorbed into the body and taken up preferentially by endocrine tissues such as the hypothalamus, pituitary, and testicles. There it stimulates the activity of what are known as NMDA receptors. NMDA receptors are located on neurons and they regulate neuronal activity. DAA binds to a specific docking site (receptor) located on the NMDA receptor known as NMDA binding site.
    In the hypothalamus the stimulation of NMDA receptors leads to the production of gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH). GnRH then stimulates the pituitary gland to release luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH). LH and FSH then in turn travel to the testicles to initiate the process of steroidogenesis, which leads eventually to the release of testosterone into the blood stream. Stimulation of NMDA receptors in the hypothalamus also leads to the release of growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) which in turn promotes the release of growth hormone from the pituitary gland.
    So the key here is the NMDA receptor. The more you activate this receptor in the hypothalamus the greater the release of GnRH and GHRH, and ultimately testosterone and growth hormone.
    The NMDA receptor is somewhat unique in that it requires activaton by two ligands (a ligand is like a “key” to a receptor). In the hypothalamus the main ligand for the NMDA receptor is d-aspartic acid. The secondary ligand (or co-activator) is the amino acid glycine. Both DAA and glycine have specific binding sites on the NMDA receptor. These sites are known as the NMDA binding site and the glycine binding site respectively. Think of it this way - just like how firing a nuclear missile requires two soldiers to turn two separate keys, so the NMDA receptor requires binding by two ligands to initiate its influence on the firing of a neuronal signal.
    So to review, administration of DAA leads to it’s uptake into the hypothalamus and binding to the NMDA receptors there. And to activate the NMDA receptor you also require adequate levels of ligands that bind to the glycine site of the NMDA receptor. Now common sense would lead one to assume that by ingesting supplemental amounts of glycine would ensure that glycine site co-activation is ensured. However the scientific literature has shown that this method has limited efficacy.
    The reason that glycine administration is not very effective at stimulating NMDA activity is not completely straight forward, but one reason is because it is efficiently removed from the synapses by the reuptake regulator Glycine Transporter 1 (GT1).
    Interestingly, much of the science published on the subject of stimulaton of NMDA receptor activity revolves around the theory that NMDA receptor hypo-activity is a causative factor in schizophrenia. For years scientists have been investigating ways to stimulate NMDA activity as a means for treating schizophrenic patients. One of the most effective strategies has been through targeting the GT1 protein. And one of the most efficient means to do this is actually through supplementation with sarcosine.
    Of course we aren’t concerned about treating schizophrenia here, what we are concerned with is maximally stimulating natural production of testosterone (or growth hormone) But the mechanism in question is exactly the same for both purposes. By blocking the re-uptake of glycine you increase the concentration of glycine in neuronal synapses, and therefore increase the influence of NMDA upon nerve transmission. In essence this is the exact way some anti-depressants (such as SSRIs) work, except the goal there is to increase binding and activating of serotonin or dopamine receptors, not NMDA receptors.
    Blocking glycine reuptake is not the only mechanism through which sarcosine stimulates DAA activity. Sarcosine actually can itself bind to the glycine binding site of NMDA receptors. In fact, it binds with a higher affinity than even glycine. So basically it replaces glycine as well as serves as its own reuptake inhibitor. It totally solves the glycine co-activation issue in one shot.
    Knowing all these facts you can see why sarcosine produces a rather dramatic effect on NMDA neuronal transmission compared to glycine itself, or other endogenous ligands for the glycine receptor such as d-serine.

    Conclusion

    To summarize, for d-aspartic acid to work to its maximum potential it must be taken with an efficient stimulator of the glycine binding site on the NMDA receptor. The most efficient non-drug stimulator we know of is the natural amino acid sarcosine.
    TestForce2 contains 3 grams of d-aspartic acid (as d-aspartate calcium chelate) and 3 grams of sarcosine per serving. It also is flavored with a light fruit punch flavor and slightly sweetened to provide a very pleasurable taste experience. It dissolves almost instantly.
    So if you like d-aspartic acid you will love TestForce2. And if you were one of the few “non-responders” to d-aspartic acid then you will also love TestForce2 because you will no longer be a non-responder. You would be a fool to settle for any other d-aspartic acid supplement.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
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    Pat-

    If the original studies showed 3 grams of DAA worked well, would'nt that equate to less of your product since it has better bioavailability? I think you once said better solubility was a factor and your TF2 is obviously much improved in this area.

    Not to mention the addition of sarcosine.

    Could we get similar results using say 2 grams of TF2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    TestForce2

    TestForce2 contains the most soluble form of d-aspartic acid combined with another remarkable amino acid known as sarcosine. This combination provides results clearly superior to other d-aspartic acid product formulations.
    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/User/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gif[/IMG]
    In case you aren’t aware, d-aspartic acid is the hottest supplement ingredient on the market right now. It has more scientific literature supporting its ability to act as a natural regulator of anabolic hormone (i.e. testosterone, growth hormone) release in the body than any supplement ingredient EVER. And E-Pharm was the company to bring you the premium form of d-aspartic acid – d-aspartate calcium chelate. This form is more than 75 times as water soluble as regular d-aspartic acid and soluble over a wide pH range. This ensures the most rapid and complete absorption possible.
    And now E-Pharm has taken the lead in d-aspartic acid technology again with the patent pending addition of the amino acid sarcosine.
    Please allow me to explain why the inclusion of sarcosine is so vital to getting the most out of d-aspartic acid.

    Why Sarcosine?
    Let me start with some background. When d-aspartic acid (DAA) is ingested it is absorbed into the body and taken up preferentially by endocrine tissues such as the hypothalamus, pituitary, and testicles. There it stimulates the activity of what are known as NMDA receptors. NMDA receptors are located on neurons and they regulate neuronal activity. DAA binds to a specific docking site (receptor) located on the NMDA receptor known as NMDA binding site.
    In the hypothalamus the stimulation of NMDA receptors leads to the production of gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH). GnRH then stimulates the pituitary gland to release luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH). LH and FSH then in turn travel to the testicles to initiate the process of steroidogenesis, which leads eventually to the release of testosterone into the blood stream. Stimulation of NMDA receptors in the hypothalamus also leads to the release of growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) which in turn promotes the release of growth hormone from the pituitary gland.
    So the key here is the NMDA receptor. The more you activate this receptor in the hypothalamus the greater the release of GnRH and GHRH, and ultimately testosterone and growth hormone.
    The NMDA receptor is somewhat unique in that it requires activaton by two ligands (a ligand is like a “key” to a receptor). In the hypothalamus the main ligand for the NMDA receptor is d-aspartic acid. The secondary ligand (or co-activator) is the amino acid glycine. Both DAA and glycine have specific binding sites on the NMDA receptor. These sites are known as the NMDA binding site and the glycine binding site respectively. Think of it this way - just like how firing a nuclear missile requires two soldiers to turn two separate keys, so the NMDA receptor requires binding by two ligands to initiate its influence on the firing of a neuronal signal.
    So to review, administration of DAA leads to it’s uptake into the hypothalamus and binding to the NMDA receptors there. And to activate the NMDA receptor you also require adequate levels of ligands that bind to the glycine site of the NMDA receptor. Now common sense would lead one to assume that by ingesting supplemental amounts of glycine would ensure that glycine site co-activation is ensured. However the scientific literature has shown that this method has limited efficacy.
    The reason that glycine administration is not very effective at stimulating NMDA activity is not completely straight forward, but one reason is because it is efficiently removed from the synapses by the reuptake regulator Glycine Transporter 1 (GT1).
    Interestingly, much of the science published on the subject of stimulaton of NMDA receptor activity revolves around the theory that NMDA receptor hypo-activity is a causative factor in schizophrenia. For years scientists have been investigating ways to stimulate NMDA activity as a means for treating schizophrenic patients. One of the most effective strategies has been through targeting the GT1 protein. And one of the most efficient means to do this is actually through supplementation with sarcosine.
    Of course we aren’t concerned about treating schizophrenia here, what we are concerned with is maximally stimulating natural production of testosterone (or growth hormone) But the mechanism in question is exactly the same for both purposes. By blocking the re-uptake of glycine you increase the concentration of glycine in neuronal synapses, and therefore increase the influence of NMDA upon nerve transmission. In essence this is the exact way some anti-depressants (such as SSRIs) work, except the goal there is to increase binding and activating of serotonin or dopamine receptors, not NMDA receptors.
    Blocking glycine reuptake is not the only mechanism through which sarcosine stimulates DAA activity. Sarcosine actually can itself bind to the glycine binding site of NMDA receptors. In fact, it binds with a higher affinity than even glycine. So basically it replaces glycine as well as serves as its own reuptake inhibitor. It totally solves the glycine co-activation issue in one shot.
    Knowing all these facts you can see why sarcosine produces a rather dramatic effect on NMDA neuronal transmission compared to glycine itself, or other endogenous ligands for the glycine receptor such as d-serine.

    Conclusion

    To summarize, for d-aspartic acid to work to its maximum potential it must be taken with an efficient stimulator of the glycine binding site on the NMDA receptor. The most efficient non-drug stimulator we know of is the natural amino acid sarcosine.
    TestForce2 contains 3 grams of d-aspartic acid (as d-aspartate calcium chelate) and 3 grams of sarcosine per serving. It also is flavored with a light fruit punch flavor and slightly sweetened to provide a very pleasurable taste experience. It dissolves almost instantly.
    So if you like d-aspartic acid you will love TestForce2. And if you were one of the few “non-responders” to d-aspartic acid then you will also love TestForce2 because you will no longer be a non-responder. You would be a fool to settle for any other d-aspartic acid supplement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
    Pat-

    If the original studies showed 3 grams of DAA worked well, would'nt that equate to less of your product since it has better bioavailability? I think you once said better solubility was a factor and your TF2 is obviously much improved in this area.

    Not to mention the addition of sarcosine.

    Could we get similar results using say 2 grams of TF2?

    2.098373 grams

    duh!!
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    obviously i agree with you theoretically. however you know that i cant definitively say that 2 grams is as good as 3 grams or 4 or whatever. because to say that i would have to do a clinical study to specifically test out the different doses in alot of people.

    you realize this dont you?
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    Very good info Patrick. You have convinced me to run testforce 2 as my next DAA product. I'm a big fan of it in general and your product sounds like one of if not the most solid of all the DAA supplements. I've used and liked tcf1 and da-hcg and ofcourse litup and all worked well for me. I really liked DA-hcg with it's inclusion of the lactic acid. Do you have any thoughts on that ingredient being included.
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    PA, thoughts on N-methyl-DAA (NMDA)? and it being 100x's more potent than regular DAA...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by schizm View Post
    PA, thoughts on N-methyl-DAA (NMDA)? and it being 100x's more potent than regular DAA...?
    no. no particular thoughts. sorry
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    Wink


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    obviously i agree with you theoretically. however you know that i cant definitively say that 2 grams is as good as 3 grams or 4 or whatever. because to say that i would have to do a clinical study to specifically test out the different doses in alot of people.

    you realize this dont you?
    Do you really care if I realize this? I'm touched, well not yet, but why dont you call me and arrange for said. lol

    seriously, thanks - I had thought you might have some lab rats who'd love to get "pricked" by or for you (bloods). lol
  

  
 

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