Trenavar equilibrium

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  1. Pat... Just to shoot the sh!ts for a second... Sodium borohydride reduction done in cold dilute methanol would yield trenbolone in good purity... Could one elute the solution through aluminum (III) oxide (alumina) to filter out excess NaBH4 and NaBH3 followed by gentle heating above 60 dgC of trenbolone plus methanol solution (if one was able to attain this solution through the column chromotography) to get rid of methanol?

    Ibe, I will run 60mg and up from there if needed and put up picture results if good enough when I get the packets. I personally f!cking hate short cycles but whatever I'll run it solo 30-45 days depending on how/if I increase dose

    Henry........ Go back to whence you came... lol, Jk


  2. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Pat... Just to shoot the sh!ts for a second... Sodium borohydride reduction done in cold dilute methanol would yield trenbolone in good purity... Could one elute the solution through aluminum (III) oxide (alumina) to filter out excess NaBH4 and NaBH3 followed by gentle heating above 60 dgC of trenbolone plus methanol solution (if one was able to attain this solution through the column chromotography) to get rid of methanol?

    Ibe, I will run 60mg and up from there if needed and put up picture results if good enough when I get the packets. I personally f!cking hate short cycles but whatever I'll run it solo 30-45 days depending on how/if I increase dose

    Henry........ Go back to whence you came... lol, Jk
    this is in regards to borohydride reductions of water insoluble organics in general

    borohydride and oxidized borohydride by product (borate salts) are water soluble. your product isnt

    simply dilute with an excess of water and the product should precipitate out. filter the solid off and wash with water.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    this is in regards to borohydride reductions of water insoluble organics in general

    borohydride and oxidized borohydride by product (borate salts) are water soluble. your product isnt

    simply dilute with an excess of water and the product should precipitate out. filter the solid off and wash with water.
    got it... for some reason i thought trenbolone would be soluble in water due to the polarity induced by the electronegativity of oxygen at c17 and c3

    question tho, why is the final product not a racemic mixture?

    and you probably saw this coming, but what agents can you use for a specific alklylation of the product?

  4. well, i cant speak for everyone else, but i never thought it would "just" convert into trenbolone, so i dont feel mislead.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    got it... for some reason i thought trenbolone would be soluble in water due to the polarity induced by the electronegativity of oxygen at c17 and c3

    question tho, why is the final product not a racemic mixture?

    and you probably saw this coming, but what agents can you use for a specific alklylation of the product?

    that ketone and hydroxyl is nowhere near enuff to render it water soluble with those 20 carbon atoms arranged the way they are

    the reduction of the 17-ketone is stereospecific due to steric hindrance from the c18 carbon

    you cannot selectively alkylate this dione. you would have to first protect the 3-ketone somehow and I dont think there is a way to do that really
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    that ketone and hydroxyl is nowhere near enuff to render it water soluble with those 20 carbon atoms arranged the way they are

    the reduction of the 17-ketone is stereospecific due to steric hindrance from the c18 carbon

    you cannot selectively alkylate this dione. you would have to first protect the 3-ketone somehow and I dont think there is a way to do that really
    ohh got you

    i was asking about alkylating the trenbolone produced from the trendione reduction not alkylating the dione to begin with..... if that makes a difference

  7. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    ohh got you

    i was asking about alkylating the trenbolone produced from the trendione reduction not alkylating the dione to begin with..... if makes a difference
    you cant alkylate a hydroxyl group. unless you convert it to a ketone.

    i suppose if you took trenbolone, protected the 3-ketone group as an oxime or something, oxidized the 17b-OH (perhaps using IBX) then you could use either grignard or alkylithium reagent.

    removing the oxime would be the last step

    i dont think it would be worth the effort though and its highly illegal anyway
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    you cant alkylate a hydroxyl group. unless you convert it to a ketone.

    i suppose if you took trenbolone, protected the 3-ketone group as an oxime or something, oxidized the 17b-OH (perhaps using IBX) then you could use either grignard or alkylithium reagent.

    removing the oxime would be the last step

    i dont think it would be worth the effort though and its highly illegal anyway
    the end product is extremely tempting....

    so a hydroxylamine to form an oxime with the 3-ketone... It will not do this with the 17-ketone because of steric hindrance

    Oxidize 17-oh and a simple grignard with CH3MgBr to alkylate c17

    remove oxime... which i don't know how, but ill figure it out

    eeeeeenteresting

  9. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    the end product is extremely tempting....

    so a hydroxylamine to form an oxime with the 3-ketone... It will not do this with the 17-ketone because of steric hindrance

    Oxidize 17-oh and a simple grignard with CH3MgBr to alkylate c17

    remove oxime... which i don't know how, but ill figure it out

    eeeeeenteresting
    ur second sentence makes no sense. There is a hydroxyl at 17


    it sounds easy doesnt it. try it and you will see there is alot more to synthesis than you think. it might not even work
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  10. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post

    remove oxime... which i don't know how, but ill figure it out
    that may be the hardest part. oximes dont hydrolyze easily
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    ur second sentence makes no sense. There is a hydroxyl at 17


    it sounds easy doesnt it. try it and you will see there is alot more to synthesis than you think. it might not even work
    oh i thought i was working with trendione, not trenbolone at that point

    i want to try it, but i wouldnt even be able to check myself regardless, and thats the most important thing. i just wanted the information for the future when i might have personal access to GC and NMR... any access i have now is under supervision lol... the chemicals are accessible

    and it does sound easy lol... that sucks about the oxime :godf*ckingdamnit:

  12. On the note that everyone responds differently. I just finished week 4 at 60mg. I have only gained 2lbs with no noticeable strength gains. I have leaned out some and muscles appear fuller, so it is doing something. I will up to 75mg for a week, then jump to 90 if no noticeable improvements. If nothing at 90mg for me after 2 weeks, then I will consider if a flop for me. Just to note my diet and training are spot on. I have also ran just about every PH/PS over the years and typically need the higher dosages I wish I
    was responding as well as others, hoping to respond well to Ment.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    below is more relevant... but we're beating a dead horse at this point

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post

  14. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    oh i thought i was working with trendione, not trenbolone at that point

    i want to try it, but i wouldnt even be able to check myself regardless, and thats the most important thing. i just wanted the information for the future when i might have personal access to GC and NMR... any access i have now is under supervision lol... the chemicals are accessible

    and it does sound easy lol... that sucks about the oxime :godf*ckingdamnit:
    there is so much more to chemical synthesis than people think. its as much of an art as a science in many respects. it really takes some years of practice to get the hang of it. i wouldnt waste your material trying to learn
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  15. Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    I dont think there are much hydroxylated metabolites from trenbolone in humans, so the relevance of this flowchart is probably limited

    And and what is with metabolite number 3? no enzymes cant add tack on carbon carbon bond like that (the 2 methyl)
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  16. Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    this may be a dumd question but why is the shape of the d ring illustrated differently in some diagrams of steroid molecules?
    its five carbons either way. some just like to draw it differently
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    there is so much more to chemical synthesis than people think. its as much of an art as a science in many respects. it really takes some years of practice to get the hang of it. i wouldnt waste your material trying to learn
    you're not the first person to tell me it's more of an art

    ill take your advice, thanks for answering my questions Pat
  

  
 

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