Trenavar equilibrium

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason79 View Post
    My understanding was also that 17a-hsd is likely located in the sex organs and kidneys. This might explain why test and epi test are produced naturally, but exogenously administered test renders no epi test. (Upon reaching tissues with 17a-hsd, it's already committed to other metabolic pathways.) We can at least infer from this that 17a-hsd isn't present at high levels, or isn't especially active in tissues other than testis and kidneys.
    it is true that exogenously administered test does not increase epi test levels... but androstendione consumption does. this indicates 17a-hsd is probably active participant in the consumption of diones... like trenavar

    Quote Originally Posted by IBE View Post
    trendione is indeed binding to the AR it's more potent then thought. raising heart rate warm feeling all over and stim like feeling I would say it;s doing something would'nt you think?
    on the basis of it being an androgen yes it will bind... doesn't mean anything tho. any diones anabolic properties come from it's conversion to 17-oh... and i dont think you understand the issue

    it will move forward to trenbolone and have some noticeable anabolic properties through this pathway alone, but your write up is wrong in stating it will exclusively go to trenbolone (read thread). i'm not gonna buy trenavar from your company when your dosing vs price is based on wrong information...

    if your hypothesis were true, injectable trenbolone would be a moot point no? lol

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    How about I send you 3 packs for you to run solo and I bet you will be say defferenly. then why do you feel it on the first day? I am talking real life here not paper you and I both know paper compared to real life pretty showed us all it;s not always right. I did not do the write up henry V did why don't you talked to him about this. I have taken tren at very high dosage and I can tell you that there is a high conversion with trendione or it;s active on it;s owne and then you are wrong. I can care less what you are saying but the results are going against what you are trying to to say.



    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    it is true that exogenously administered test does not increase epi test levels... but androstendione consumption does. this indicates 17a-hsd is probably active participant in the consumption of diones... like trenavar



    on the basis of it being an androgen yes it will bind... doesn't mean anything tho. any diones anabolic properties come from it's conversion to 17-oh... and i dont think you understand the issue

    it will move forward to trenbolone and have some noticeable anabolic properties through this pathway alone, but your write up is wrong in stating it will exclusively go to trenbolone (read thread). i'm not gonna buy trenavar from your company when your dosing vs price is based on wrong information...

    if your hypothesis were true, injectable trenbolone would be a moot point no? lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBE View Post
    How about I send you 3 packs for you to run solo and I bet you will be say defferenly. then why do you feel it on the first day? I am talking real life here not paper you and I both know paper compared to real life pretty showed us all it;s not always right. I did not do the write up henry V did why don't you talked to him about this. I have taken tren at very high dosage and I can tell you that there is a high conversion with trendione or it;s active on it;s owne and then you are wrong. I can care less what you are saying but the results are going against what you are trying to to say.
    all im saying is trendione will go to trenbolone in lesser amounts than predicted so the dosing vs price you have up might be skewed in your favor aka we pay more for less. i'd love a chance to experiment with it and put the dosing question to the test. pm sent
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    so far 45-60 mg is a good dose to start with for some reason it is very fast acting you will start feeling it on the first day. everyone is thinking 90mg and up but there is no need for that high of a dose, it is very potent at 60mg
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBE View Post
    so far 45-60 mg is a good dose to start with for some reason it is very fast acting you will start feeling it on the first day. everyone is thinking 90mg and up but there is no need for that high of a dose, it is very potent at 60mg
    Id like to think my prediction on the dosing was pretty good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    all im saying is trendione will go to trenbolone in lesser amounts than predicted so the dosing vs price you have up might be skewed in your favor aka we pay more for less. i'd love a chance to experiment with it and put the dosing question to the test. pm sent
    If you log this bro, Lemme know Ill sub (Doesn't have to be run on AM, just send me a PM)
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBE View Post
    trendione is indeed binding to the AR it's more potent then thought. raising heart rate warm feeling all over and stim like feeling I would say it;s doing something would'nt you think?
    17-ketones really dont have much binding to the androgen receptor. i thought the idea was it converts to trenbolone, which does bind very strongly
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    it is true that exogenously administered test does not increase epi test levels... but androstendione consumption does. this indicates 17a-hsd is probably active participant in the consumption of diones... like trenavar

    l
    injectable test is not a fair comparison to oral androstenedione. oral administration leads to different pattern of metabolites than injectable
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBE View Post
    How about I send you 3 packs for you to run solo and I bet you will be say defferenly. then why do you feel it on the first day? I am talking real life here not paper you and I both know paper compared to real life pretty showed us all it;s not always right. I did not do the write up henry V did why don't you talked to him about this. I have taken tren at very high dosage and I can tell you that there is a high conversion with trendione or it;s active on it;s owne and then you are wrong. I can care less what you are saying but the results are going against what you are trying to to say.

    you have taken oral trenbolone before?
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    No only injectable. it seems the conversion is pretty high for trendione or something esle is happening


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    you have taken oral trenbolone before?
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    sure was I was and I did not forget about your promised tren I willl be sending monday


    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    Id like to think my prediction on the dosing was pretty good.
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    IBE's definitely trying to be a stand-up company [ reps for that ] - people asking left & right for free packets so they can "test out" the product and find the right dosages. Whatever happened to taking a risk and buying it? There's another guy who's 'testing' Trenavar with the mindset to disprove IBE & dudes already jumping the gun with the dosages. Some people might be forgetting that whatever works or doesn't work for them may not hold true with somebody else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oli View Post
    IBE's definitely trying to be a stand-up company [ reps for that ] - people asking left & right for free packets so they can "test out" the product and find the right dosages. Whatever happened to taking a risk and buying it? There's another guy who's 'testing' Trenavar with the mindset to disprove IBE & dudes already jumping the gun with the dosages. Some people might be forgetting that whatever works or doesn't work for them may not hold true with somebody else.

    Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but i ran a log for them to beta test it, so IBE said hed send me some packs for that, i also did buy my own, bought three packs worth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBE View Post
    How about I send you 3 packs for you to run solo and I bet you will be say defferenly. then why do you feel it on the first day?
    I'll take you up on this offer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT

    Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but i ran a log for them to beta test it, so IBE said hed send me some packs for that, i also did buy my own, bought three packs worth.
    I think he's directing that more towards shwellington.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBE View Post
    How about I send you 3 packs for you to run solo and I bet you will be say defferenly. then why do you feel it on the first day? I am talking real life here not paper you and I both know paper compared to real life pretty showed us all it;s not always right. I did not do the write up henry V did why don't you talked to him about this. I have taken tren at very high dosage and I can tell you that there is a high conversion with trendione or it;s active on it;s owne and then you are wrong. I can care less what you are saying but the results are going against what you are trying to to say.
    The day before this thread mentioned it I arrived at a similar conclusion to CM (suspected conversion to epitren through 17a-HSD). The writeup was written over a year ago.
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    I will leave at this I don't think no one can say exactly what is going on but something is and it seems there is alot of tren in there or trendione is active on it;s owne. right now it;s paper against real life so we will see who wins.



    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    The day before this thread mentioned it I arrived at a similar conclusion to CM (suspected conversion to epitren through 17a-HSD). The writeup was written over a year ago.
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    Very interested in hearing more of the loggers' experiences. It seems very few are logging solo, but there are a few out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBE View Post
    I will leave at this I don't think no one can say exactly what is going on but something is and it seems there is alot of tren in there or trendione is active on it;s owne. right now it;s paper against real life so we will see who wins.
    if it works it works. i wouldnt get all caught up in theory.
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    I agree if works it works. so far it;s working ...thank god....lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    if it works it works. i wouldnt get all caught up in theory.
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    Pat... Just to shoot the sh!ts for a second... Sodium borohydride reduction done in cold dilute methanol would yield trenbolone in good purity... Could one elute the solution through aluminum (III) oxide (alumina) to filter out excess NaBH4 and NaBH3 followed by gentle heating above 60 dgC of trenbolone plus methanol solution (if one was able to attain this solution through the column chromotography) to get rid of methanol?

    Ibe, I will run 60mg and up from there if needed and put up picture results if good enough when I get the packets. I personally f!cking hate short cycles but whatever I'll run it solo 30-45 days depending on how/if I increase dose

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Pat... Just to shoot the sh!ts for a second... Sodium borohydride reduction done in cold dilute methanol would yield trenbolone in good purity... Could one elute the solution through aluminum (III) oxide (alumina) to filter out excess NaBH4 and NaBH3 followed by gentle heating above 60 dgC of trenbolone plus methanol solution (if one was able to attain this solution through the column chromotography) to get rid of methanol?

    Ibe, I will run 60mg and up from there if needed and put up picture results if good enough when I get the packets. I personally f!cking hate short cycles but whatever I'll run it solo 30-45 days depending on how/if I increase dose

    Henry........ Go back to whence you came... lol, Jk
    this is in regards to borohydride reductions of water insoluble organics in general

    borohydride and oxidized borohydride by product (borate salts) are water soluble. your product isnt

    simply dilute with an excess of water and the product should precipitate out. filter the solid off and wash with water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    this is in regards to borohydride reductions of water insoluble organics in general

    borohydride and oxidized borohydride by product (borate salts) are water soluble. your product isnt

    simply dilute with an excess of water and the product should precipitate out. filter the solid off and wash with water.
    got it... for some reason i thought trenbolone would be soluble in water due to the polarity induced by the electronegativity of oxygen at c17 and c3

    question tho, why is the final product not a racemic mixture?

    and you probably saw this coming, but what agents can you use for a specific alklylation of the product?
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    well, i cant speak for everyone else, but i never thought it would "just" convert into trenbolone, so i dont feel mislead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    got it... for some reason i thought trenbolone would be soluble in water due to the polarity induced by the electronegativity of oxygen at c17 and c3

    question tho, why is the final product not a racemic mixture?

    and you probably saw this coming, but what agents can you use for a specific alklylation of the product?

    that ketone and hydroxyl is nowhere near enuff to render it water soluble with those 20 carbon atoms arranged the way they are

    the reduction of the 17-ketone is stereospecific due to steric hindrance from the c18 carbon

    you cannot selectively alkylate this dione. you would have to first protect the 3-ketone somehow and I dont think there is a way to do that really
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    that ketone and hydroxyl is nowhere near enuff to render it water soluble with those 20 carbon atoms arranged the way they are

    the reduction of the 17-ketone is stereospecific due to steric hindrance from the c18 carbon

    you cannot selectively alkylate this dione. you would have to first protect the 3-ketone somehow and I dont think there is a way to do that really
    ohh got you

    i was asking about alkylating the trenbolone produced from the trendione reduction not alkylating the dione to begin with..... if that makes a difference
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    ohh got you

    i was asking about alkylating the trenbolone produced from the trendione reduction not alkylating the dione to begin with..... if makes a difference
    you cant alkylate a hydroxyl group. unless you convert it to a ketone.

    i suppose if you took trenbolone, protected the 3-ketone group as an oxime or something, oxidized the 17b-OH (perhaps using IBX) then you could use either grignard or alkylithium reagent.

    removing the oxime would be the last step

    i dont think it would be worth the effort though and its highly illegal anyway
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    you cant alkylate a hydroxyl group. unless you convert it to a ketone.

    i suppose if you took trenbolone, protected the 3-ketone group as an oxime or something, oxidized the 17b-OH (perhaps using IBX) then you could use either grignard or alkylithium reagent.

    removing the oxime would be the last step

    i dont think it would be worth the effort though and its highly illegal anyway
    the end product is extremely tempting....

    so a hydroxylamine to form an oxime with the 3-ketone... It will not do this with the 17-ketone because of steric hindrance

    Oxidize 17-oh and a simple grignard with CH3MgBr to alkylate c17

    remove oxime... which i don't know how, but ill figure it out

    eeeeeenteresting
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    the end product is extremely tempting....

    so a hydroxylamine to form an oxime with the 3-ketone... It will not do this with the 17-ketone because of steric hindrance

    Oxidize 17-oh and a simple grignard with CH3MgBr to alkylate c17

    remove oxime... which i don't know how, but ill figure it out

    eeeeeenteresting
    ur second sentence makes no sense. There is a hydroxyl at 17


    it sounds easy doesnt it. try it and you will see there is alot more to synthesis than you think. it might not even work
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post

    remove oxime... which i don't know how, but ill figure it out
    that may be the hardest part. oximes dont hydrolyze easily
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    ur second sentence makes no sense. There is a hydroxyl at 17


    it sounds easy doesnt it. try it and you will see there is alot more to synthesis than you think. it might not even work
    oh i thought i was working with trendione, not trenbolone at that point

    i want to try it, but i wouldnt even be able to check myself regardless, and thats the most important thing. i just wanted the information for the future when i might have personal access to GC and NMR... any access i have now is under supervision lol... the chemicals are accessible

    and it does sound easy lol... that sucks about the oxime :godf*ckingdamnit:
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    On the note that everyone responds differently. I just finished week 4 at 60mg. I have only gained 2lbs with no noticeable strength gains. I have leaned out some and muscles appear fuller, so it is doing something. I will up to 75mg for a week, then jump to 90 if no noticeable improvements. If nothing at 90mg for me after 2 weeks, then I will consider if a flop for me. Just to note my diet and training are spot on. I have also ran just about every PH/PS over the years and typically need the higher dosages I wish I
    was responding as well as others, hoping to respond well to Ment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    below is more relevant... but we're beating a dead horse at this point

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    oh i thought i was working with trendione, not trenbolone at that point

    i want to try it, but i wouldnt even be able to check myself regardless, and thats the most important thing. i just wanted the information for the future when i might have personal access to GC and NMR... any access i have now is under supervision lol... the chemicals are accessible

    and it does sound easy lol... that sucks about the oxime :godf*ckingdamnit:
    there is so much more to chemical synthesis than people think. its as much of an art as a science in many respects. it really takes some years of practice to get the hang of it. i wouldnt waste your material trying to learn
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    I dont think there are much hydroxylated metabolites from trenbolone in humans, so the relevance of this flowchart is probably limited

    And and what is with metabolite number 3? no enzymes cant add tack on carbon carbon bond like that (the 2 methyl)
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    this may be a dumd question but why is the shape of the d ring illustrated differently in some diagrams of steroid molecules?
    its five carbons either way. some just like to draw it differently
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    there is so much more to chemical synthesis than people think. its as much of an art as a science in many respects. it really takes some years of practice to get the hang of it. i wouldnt waste your material trying to learn
    you're not the first person to tell me it's more of an art

    ill take your advice, thanks for answering my questions Pat
  

  
 

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