Topical DHEA Question

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag

    I'm wondering if I should see if I can run this for four weeks the stack it with ah and epi till its gone... Lol. I'm looking to increase my strength this winter. Weight doesn't matter much.
    That sounds tasty.... AH and epi both should help mitigate estrogenic side effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwa254 View Post
    7,8 Benzoflavone (36mg), Resveratrol (36mg), Pregnenolone (18mg), and Chrysin (9mg) are also included. Would these ingredients counter any negative effects of DHEA?
    the dose of res is too low in my opinion to be of much use. i dunno what dose of the benzoflav would be effective at and chrysin is neithered dosed remotely effectively nor soluble enough to get through the skin.

    everyone has diffreent sensitivities so if you can handle dhea and like it then fine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    ha this has been my sentiments exactly regarding all these DHEA products...

    4-DHEA, 1-DHEA, those are different... but come on.... whos out there really buying up DHEA at 50-60 bucks a bottle when you can get grams of the stuff in powder for a few dollars and it will still be just as pointless unless your in a severely deficient hormonal state.... in that case you should be on TRT anyways.

    BTW we have a ton of dhea capsules at 200mg here that we dont sell and if everyone wants to scoop them up just lemme know
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    Quote Originally Posted by freefall365 View Post
    this is a very interesting topic. Sourdough you ask "who's really out there buying up DHEA anyway" and the answer is tons of ppl swear buy such DHEA products.

    I know ppl who train and ran dermacrine who definitely achieved tighter/denser muscle mass (albeit not drastic but seemingly real effects) and reported hightened sense of well being. I know without bloodwork such a experience is hard to quantify, but still... Makes one wonder where this suggested increase of male hormone came from if DHEA really isn't for guys as is suggested.

    DHEA has been proposed to be an antagonist at the GABA(A) receptor so its possible some people feel a stimulatory effect from it
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelhead View Post
    this study seems to show that dhea itself binds to the androgen receptor

    http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...760(06)00039-2

    i would bet you a million bucks that its ability to regulate AR mediated gene transcription is a teeny fraction of of a fraction compared to the classical physiological androgens like test and dht. So its hard for me to imagine that in eugonadal males its contribution to the androgen pool is even significant

    now if you are a woman, a castrate, or a child that may be different
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    Quote Originally Posted by schizm View Post
    Def good convo in here...PA, ATD being pretty potent (which If I'm not mistaken, binds to the site of the aromatase enzyme & renders it inactive)...would you think 25mg/day would be the next best thing to a SERM....or not so much?
    it may block the conversion of DHEA into classical estrogens but it wouldnt do anything to stop the estrogenic actions of the metabolite 5-adiol and DHEA itself
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    I would doubt so... Its still not blocking anything at the ER itself. That's what is absolutely essential to block dhea's estrogenic effects since dhea and a few of its metabolites have direct interactions with the ER and no amount of aromatase blocking will stop those interactions.

    In fact in a study I just read....

    http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/49/49_685.pdf

    It shows that males administered 50mg for DHEA 6 days in a TD gel showed no significant increased in either estrogen OR testosterone, just dhea and its metabolite dheas.... Until they did the follow up blood draws 5 weeks after ceasing the dose.

    This showed a 50% increase in testosterone had occurred from the downstream cascade of enzymatic conversions from dhea built up in the body.... One could only assume this number would increase if dose was increased and prolonged beyond 6 days just like in a typical cycle.

    This would all be good and fine, except for one thing. Estrogen also had an increase in those 5 weeks after only 6 days of dhea administration.... 300% over baseline values..... Imagine what a 4-8 week cycle would yield?

    .

    My guess is that the DHEA was somehow upregulating enzymes which shuttle DHEA and other sex hormone precursors to active androgens and estrogens. The bad part of that equation of course is the compensatory downregulation of LH/FSH

    So not a good thing to take post cycle, at least transdermally
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelhead View Post
    plant based Ai's are probably worthless in the real world. they require fairly large doses to have any effect and i seriously doubt a transdermal carrier could carry the amount necessary to achieve an effect in the body. resveratrol is good for u but taking it to keep from gettin gyno is comical. .
    you cant make such dismissive statements. not enough research has been done on these things. much of what has been published is suggestive of the possibility of benefit but we just dont know yet

    just because something was chemically synthesized and something is natural doesnt mean one works and the other one has to suck

    (chrysin probably does suck though, as a couple of studies have not come out well at all)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Estrogen conversion is largely a function of the androgen in question, and enzymes conversion rates. Individual differences are present, but in my experience and in every bit of feedback I've seen on finished products/homebrews (including my own bloodwork) - there's little issue in the case of TOPICAL DHEA. Orally, it's a WHOLE 'nother story.

    In any case, getting enough of it into circulation is job #1. In this respect, you'll see the term "flux" showing up over, in the trandermal literature. This simply refers to the amount of surface area the product is spread across/over. Yes, some areas of the body have thinner/thicker skin covering such, but PE's (penetration enhancers) should be included to address. The gold standard is DMSO, but prude that the FDA is - they take a dim view of such. You might spill an oz. or two by accident, into your topical. It's unfortunate but happens. The world is frought with hazard, given all the multi-tasking that goes on today.

    ONE CAVEAT: DMSO (with the exception of the incredibly rare "odorless" variety PA once sold), stinks to high heaven. Accordingly, I spill at least 2-3 oz. of D-Limonene (constituent of orange/citrus peel) into the diabolical mix. It's an excellent PE enhancer, and has a pleasant citrus likesmell.

    Mistakes happen, so be on the lookout for them. Hope that helps...

    we still have many gallons of the odor free dmso here. i dunno how odor free it still is though
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelhead View Post
    i' m gonna start selling transdermal cholesterol as a otc replacement for test base. there should be good conversion but it must be applied to the scrotum. it's called PLACEBODROL made from 100% non-organic animal fat. please contact me if u need any. bulk orders available
    just wrap your nuts in bacon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    we still have many gallons of the odor free dmso here. i dunno how odor free it still is though
    in for some of that, That was from Skulpt right? I had good results from that whatever happened to it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    we still have many gallons of the odor free dmso here. i dunno how odor free it still is though
    Yeah, you sold me some! It's not QUITE what I'd call odor free - but it's one HELL of a lot better, than the other stuff that's out there. I'd imagine a fresh batch, would be darn close...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    just wrap your nuts in bacon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    we still have many gallons of the odor free dmso here. i dunno how odor free it still is though
    how would we get our hands on this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    how would we get our hands on this?
    I'm thinkin' in Japan, Probably not
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    in for some of that, That was from Skulpt right? I had good results from that whatever happened to it?
    lol-only result i got from skulpt was stained clothes. skulpt was a dud, imho.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    lol-only result i got from skulpt was stained clothes. skulpt was a dud, imho.
    yeah I got the yellow clothes too only if you didn't let it dry enough. It was good for getting rid of the last vestiges of my love handles it was a tuner not a make over, you had to be eating under maintenance, it just targeted the stubborn hard spots
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    yeah I got the yellow clothes too only if you didn't let it dry enough. It was good for getting rid of the last vestiges of my love handles it was a tuner not a make over, you had to be eating under maintenance, it just targeted the stubborn hard spots

    6oxo and 6oxo extreme were big favorites of mine, and having used 6oxo bulk in a topical solution i was very disappointed in skulpt. only thing i can think of is the 6oxo was very underdosed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin
    I'm thinkin' in Japan, Probably not
    None in japan? Sigh..
    6oxo I hear was some good stuff. Donno the correct or effective dose though.

    6bromo was good. But I mistakenly used that in pct....
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    None in japan? Sigh..
    6oxo I hear was some good stuff. Donno the correct or effective dose though.

    6bromo was good. But I mistakenly used that in pct....
    Yeah 6 oxo was outstanding. Back when I was running PH's it was always in the stack and I even used it as a stand alone test booster, it was a little hard on the hairline.....of course now that is of no concern to me. lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin
    Yeah 6 oxo was outstanding. Back when I was running PH's it was always in the stack and I even used it as a stand alone test booster, it was a little hard on the hairline.....of course now that is of no concern to me. lol
    Bald is beautiful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Bald is beautiful.
    Actually once I did it, I liked it so much I couldn't figure why I hung on to my hair for so long. Bald is beautiful..... if you have the noggin for it, I saw this dude the other day..... He should have kept his hair.... big divot oof
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin
    Actually once I did it, I liked it so much I couldn't figure why I hung on to my hair for so long. Bald is beautiful..... if you have the noggin for it, I saw this dude the other day..... He should have kept his hair.... big divot oof
    Hahaha.
    My wife told me I couldn't shave my head. But then I told her I'd save money cause I wouldnt need to go get my hair cut she said fine. Then when I did it she said I should've done it sooner... Lol.
    Plus in judo everyone says I look meaner and stronger. Haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    we still have many gallons of the odor free dmso here. i dunno how odor free it still is though
    Holy cow.... I just read about your odor free dmso last week....

    If its still good lmk... I'd like to pick some up from you if possible!
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    hey pa, what do you think of adding a little rogaine to topical solutions? i was told this will enhance absorbtion?
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    i dont understand rogaines connection to absorption. i am not a rogaine expert though
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    From Rogaine:
    About VersaFoam Technology

    As a leader in novel topical delivery systems, Connetics owns worldwide rights to a number of unique topical delivery systems and has branded its proprietary foam drug delivery vehicle, VersaFoam. This unique, versatile topical drug delivery vehicle quickly absorbs into the skin when applied and has versatility for application on multiple body sites.
    The formulation is thermolabile, which melts at skin temperature and evaporates quickly. In addition, it is easy to apply, non-dripping, stain-free and leaves minimal to no residue. It is also preservative-free. The VersaFoam system has important cosmetic and functional benefits compared with conventional delivery vehicles including creams, ointments, gels and lotions. Connetics' VersaFoam-based products are OLUX for scalp dermatoses and non-scalp psoriasis, Luxiq Foam for scalp dermatoses and Evoclin Foam for the treatment of acne.
    These formulations have earned wide acceptance by physicians and patients due to their clinical effectiveness, high quality and cosmetic elegance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ev52 View Post
    From Rogaine:
    About VersaFoam Technology

    As a leader in novel topical delivery systems, Connetics owns worldwide rights to a number of unique topical delivery systems and has branded its proprietary foam drug delivery vehicle, VersaFoam. This unique, versatile topical drug delivery vehicle quickly absorbs into the skin when applied and has versatility for application on multiple body sites.
    The formulation is thermolabile, which melts at skin temperature and evaporates quickly. In addition, it is easy to apply, non-dripping, stain-free and leaves minimal to no residue. It is also preservative-free. The VersaFoam system has important cosmetic and functional benefits compared with conventional delivery vehicles including creams, ointments, gels and lotions. Connetics' VersaFoam-based products are OLUX for scalp dermatoses and non-scalp psoriasis, Luxiq Foam for scalp dermatoses and Evoclin Foam for the treatment of acne.
    These formulations have earned wide acceptance by physicians and patients due to their clinical effectiveness, high quality and cosmetic elegance.
    nice post....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ev52 View Post
    From Rogaine:
    About VersaFoam Technology

    As a leader in novel topical delivery systems, Connetics owns worldwide rights to a number of unique topical delivery systems and has branded its proprietary foam drug delivery vehicle, VersaFoam. This unique, versatile topical drug delivery vehicle quickly absorbs into the skin when applied and has versatility for application on multiple body sites.
    The formulation is thermolabile, which melts at skin temperature and evaporates quickly. In addition, it is easy to apply, non-dripping, stain-free and leaves minimal to no residue. It is also preservative-free. The VersaFoam system has important cosmetic and functional benefits compared with conventional delivery vehicles including creams, ointments, gels and lotions. Connetics' VersaFoam-based products are OLUX for scalp dermatoses and non-scalp psoriasis, Luxiq Foam for scalp dermatoses and Evoclin Foam for the treatment of acne.
    These formulations have earned wide acceptance by physicians and patients due to their clinical effectiveness, high quality and cosmetic elegance.
    sounds like a nifty and convenient topical base but I am not so sure how convenient it would be for a topical that you want to get over as much skin as possible. that would be alot of rubbing. Spraying would be quicker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    sounds like a nifty and convenient topical base but I am not so sure how convenient it would be for a topical that you want to get over as much skin as possible. that would be alot of rubbing. Spraying would be quicker

    a capful added to a systematic td solution should be enough to enhance absorbtion by a considerable margin.....not really that large of an area needs to be covered. even if you were adding to a local solution, you wouldn't be increasing the amount of rubbibg by adding the rogaine.


    but if you were to create a spray incorporating some rogaine who knows, lol.
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