After Dark Muscle Building

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  1. After Dark Muscle Building


    As per the title of the thread, I am curious people's bedtime snacks - successes and failures - whether that be particular foods that don't sit well; supplemental strategies; etc...

    After a few days, I will share with you some of the successes and failures of my clients over the years.




    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author


  2. zma has been a staple for 2 years along with melatonin, when needed. zma seems to help with a hangover as well.

    vitamin c and/or cla before bed is harsh on my stomach, especially when taken on an empty stomach or combined with fruit like strawberries, apples or grapes.

    50mg of 5htp gave me great sleep but made me very lethargic and out of it the next day lasting for 3-5 hours

    a pharmacy in thailand gave me tryptanol for jetlag. one pill made me sleep 12 hours and messed me up for a few days

    multivitamin as a hangover cure before bed made me have a tough time sleeping, im guessing because of the vitamin b's
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  3. I have found zma to be very helpful as my workouts are late afternoon and have my preworkout drink fairly close to going to bed. I have no problem getting to sleep with the help of zma. I also have low fat cottage cheese just before bed. I did try nighttime proteins but felt bloated from them and found it hard to sleep feeling bloated.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by ka0tik View Post
    zma has been a staple for 2 years along with melatonin, when needed. zma seems to help with a hangover as well.

    vitamin c and/or cla before bed is harsh on my stomach, especially when taken on an empty stomach or combined with fruit like strawberries, apples or grapes.

    50mg of 5htp gave me great sleep but made me very lethargic and out of it the next day lasting for 3-5 hours

    a pharmacy in thailand gave me tryptanol for jetlag. one pill made me sleep 12 hours and messed me up for a few days

    multivitamin as a hangover cure before bed made me have a tough time sleeping, im guessing because of the vitamin b's
    Melatonin is great helps not only regulate sleep but Diurnal leptin rythms.

    http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/288/4/E805.short

  5. i like to eat like 1.5 lbs of turkey chili with 4 ounce goat cheese and 2 servings of guac 2-3 hours pre bed. Works wonders. I mean i like it. Im just kinda maintaining thoguh now,.
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  6. I always wanted to know if waking mid sleep to eat again was a good idea or not. It seemed to rev my metabolism up but later down the road I felt like it started causing issues.

    Always supplemented Vitamin D and melatonin - especially when I worked overnight shift.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
    Franz Kafka

  7. Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    I always wanted to know if waking mid sleep to eat again was a good idea or not. It seemed to rev my metabolism up but later down the road I felt like it started causing issues.

    Always supplemented Vitamin D and melatonin - especially when I worked overnight shift.
    If you want my opinion ill give it, if not too bad.

    Its a good idea IF you were to fast a little throughout the day (somewhat) due to increased leptin levels. which in theory (at that time) will raise leptin a little higher allowing for more fat burning throughout the day, i would just not consume a meal for atleast 8 hours after that mid sleep snack.

  8. I have an interesting twist to this as well... what about prebed workouts???

    I dont workout directly prebed right now but I have often had periods of my life where I would workout LATE, come home, eat and within 2 hours hit the sack... Ive made significant gains doing this as a hard gainer in my younger years yet I feel as though as I grow older and my metabolism is slowing that it tends to allow more weight gain in the undersireable fashion as well... so I try to workout at my equivalent to mid day...

    Thoughts on why this is????



    Prebed I enjoy a few things...

    nothing beats 1-carboxy/L-dopa for feeling of deep rest and recovery....

    BCAA's are great although not absorbed throughout the night Im not taking them for MUSCLE but rather the MIND at that point and the key roles BCAA's can play in GH release and other important brain functions...

    Lastly would be ZMA, taking this recently was more an experiment then anything, where I found it significantly helped in sleep and I would constantly wake with morning wood where previously it was not happening... leading me to believe it was aiding in test production.

    Interested in hearing your thoughts on diff supps and what reasoning late night workouts can help with hard gainers??? (at least this was true in my case and is purely anecdotal as far as I know... wondering if theres anything behind it?)
    iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html

  9. Nimbus Nutrition Poseidon NT gave me deeper sleep and crazier dreams than any other OTC sleep aid. The profile does not seem too heavily geared towards sleep, and I honestly can't pinpoint what ingredient(s) set Poseidon NT apart, but it was fantastic. The key was to use it consistently for 6-8 weeks. The first 2-3 weeks, I barely noticed anything. As time passed, my sleep got progressively deeper. Unbelievably vivid dreams started around week 4...I created entire worlds in my mind and visited them, it was the stuff of movies. But here's the kicker:

    By week 6, I was LUCID dreaming essentially every single night. For whatever reason, I was cognizant of my dreaming every time I hit the sack. It was truly an awesome experience; I had never looked forward to sleep so much. Every night was an adventure, and I could recall my dreams perfectly the next day. Added a completely new dimension to my life. I'd like to hear what you thought caused this epic dreaming and deep sleep, because the sleep-geared ingredients look like nothing out of the ordinary.

  10. Does anyone wake themselves up in the night to eat?



    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  11. Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    If you want my opinion ill give it, if not too bad.

    Its a good idea IF you were to fast a little throughout the day (somewhat) due to increased leptin levels. which in theory (at that time) will raise leptin a little higher allowing for more fat burning throughout the day, i would just not consume a meal for atleast 8 hours after that mid sleep snack.
    Fine! Be that way! Lol, thanks.
    No I don't do that. When I worked overnight shift I was eating every 2-3 hours round the clock. Im convinced it wasnt a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    I dont workout directly prebed right now but I have often had periods of my life where I would workout LATE, come home, eat and within 2 hours hit the sack...
    Due to my work schedule and stupid long commute thats how my Tuesday/Thursday schedule goes. The I work out first thing Sat/Sun morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Does anyone wake themselves up in the night to eat?
    As stated before, I used to wake myself 2 hours prior to hit a shake then go back down till it was time to fully wake. It seemed to work great for pushing the metabolism up in the beginning but later seemed to cause problems. Not anymore, I try to get 6-7 hours uninterrupted.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
    Franz Kafka

  12. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nimbus Nutrition Poseidon NT gave me deeper sleep and crazier dreams than any other OTC sleep aid. The profile does not seem too heavily geared towards sleep, and I honestly can't pinpoint what ingredient(s) set Poseidon NT apart, but it was fantastic. The key was to use it consistently for 6-8 weeks. The first 2-3 weeks, I barely noticed anything. As time passed, my sleep got progressively deeper. Unbelievably vivid dreams started around week 4...I created entire worlds in my mind and visited them, it was the stuff of movies. But here's the kicker:

    By week 6, I was LUCID dreaming essentially every single night. For whatever reason, I was cognizant of my dreaming every time I hit the sack. It was truly an awesome experience; I had never looked forward to sleep so much. Every night was an adventure, and I could recall my dreams perfectly the next day. Added a completely new dimension to my life. I'd like to hear what you thought caused this epic dreaming and deep sleep, because the sleep-geared ingredients look like nothing out of the ordinary.

    This sounds amazing. Im gonna look into this. Anythign else give you similar experiences?
    RecoverBro ELITE

  13. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nimbus Nutrition Poseidon NT gave me deeper sleep and crazier dreams than any other OTC sleep aid. The profile does not seem too heavily geared towards sleep, and I honestly can't pinpoint what ingredient(s) set Poseidon NT apart, but it was fantastic. The key was to use it consistently for 6-8 weeks. The first 2-3 weeks, I barely noticed anything. As time passed, my sleep got progressively deeper. Unbelievably vivid dreams started around week 4...I created entire worlds in my mind and visited them, it was the stuff of movies. But here's the kicker:

    By week 6, I was LUCID dreaming essentially every single night. For whatever reason, I was cognizant of my dreaming every time I hit the sack. It was truly an awesome experience; I had never looked forward to sleep so much. Every night was an adventure, and I could recall my dreams perfectly the next day. Added a completely new dimension to my life. I'd like to hear what you thought caused this epic dreaming and deep sleep, because the sleep-geared ingredients look like nothing out of the ordinary.
    I wonder if its increasing levels of DMT.... sounds like a straight DMT trip, lol....
    iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html

  14. Usually just almonds/walnuts + shake or 6 whole eggs.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    This sounds amazing. Im gonna look into this. Anythign else give you similar experiences?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    I wonder if its increasing levels of DMT.... sounds like a straight DMT trip, lol....
    Yeah I will certainly be trying it again in the near future. As far as other products, I have tried quite a bit, and the ones that worked best gave me vivid dreams, but nothing like Poseidon NT. With Poseidon I was having dreams that "felt" like they lasted for years and were so crystal clear. One of the dreams I remember was when I was sitting in my room and reading a book. I could see every word on the page; there wasn't the usual "dream" haze. And the scary part was that the sentences flowed so well, as if written by a professional author. I'm still stumped as to how my mind did that....would love for it to recruit those writing skills for some of my essays!

  16. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nimbus Nutrition Poseidon NT gave me deeper sleep and crazier dreams than any other OTC sleep aid. The profile does not seem too heavily geared towards sleep, and I honestly can't pinpoint what ingredient(s) set Poseidon NT apart, but it was fantastic.
    I did a quick search for this, as maintaining sleep has always been a problem for me. Noticed that there were two Poseidon products, one not NT.

    NT formula:
    Taurine, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Inositol, Glutamine, Flavoring, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Gluconate, Niacin, Acesulfame Potassium, Potassium Bicaronate,Potassium Carbonate, GABA, L-Tryptophan, Phenibut, Sodium Biocarbinate, Niacin , Magnesium Gluconate, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, TriMethylGlycine, Methylcobalamin, Riboflavin ,Folic Acid, Biotin

    Non-NT:
    Taurine, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Inositol, Glutamine, Flavoring, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Gluconate, Niacin, Acesulfame Potassium, Sodium Bicarbonate, Potassium Bicaronate, Sucralose, Pantothenic acid, Zinc Gluconate, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, Trimethylglycine, Methylcobalamin, Folic Acid, Biotin

    Sticking out in the NT formula to me: GABA, L-Tryptophan, and Phenibut. I guess the vitamins and other stuff make these elements more useful? I'm curious enough to try, and there's a place I can order from who can get it to me in a day, so why not.

  17. To answer Doc's question: no, I have never intentionally gotten up in the middle of the night just to eat. I have, as I mentioned earlier, gotten interrupted sleep and just felt hungry so I gave into cravings and impulses. Guess it just seemed better to do than rolling around & getting more pissed off that I couldn't go back to slumber.
  18. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    I've never set an alarm to wake up in the middle of the night just to eat; seems detrimental to the sleep cycle. I currently eat my last meal a little while before bed (usually just protein and a little fat); no special supplements or anything else. I wake up after 7-8 hours (unless I get to bed late for some reason), take my cytomel, and eat one hour later.

    In the past, I've used melatonin on a few occasions. It gave decent rest, but I didn't want to become reliant upon it.

    I've used PowerFull and Somnidren Ultra pre-bed and both have given me amazing deams.

    I'd used ZMA in the past for 2 separate month-long, or so, occasions and didn't notice anything in particular from it.

    I used to drink a casein shake (sometimes with natty pb) directly pre-bed, but stopped that. That was a pretty short stint.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by counterspy View Post
    I did a quick search for this, as maintaining sleep has always been a problem for me. Noticed that there were two Poseidon products, one not NT.

    NT formula:
    Taurine, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Inositol, Glutamine, Flavoring, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Gluconate, Niacin, Acesulfame Potassium, Potassium Bicaronate,Potassium Carbonate, GABA, L-Tryptophan, Phenibut, Sodium Biocarbinate, Niacin , Magnesium Gluconate, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, TriMethylGlycine, Methylcobalamin, Riboflavin ,Folic Acid, Biotin

    Non-NT:
    Taurine, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Inositol, Glutamine, Flavoring, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Gluconate, Niacin, Acesulfame Potassium, Sodium Bicarbonate, Potassium Bicaronate, Sucralose, Pantothenic acid, Zinc Gluconate, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, Trimethylglycine, Methylcobalamin, Folic Acid, Biotin

    Sticking out in the NT formula to me: GABA, L-Tryptophan, and Phenibut. I guess the vitamins and other stuff make these elements more useful? I'm curious enough to try, and there's a place I can order from who can get it to me in a day, so why not.
    Yeah, I am aware of the 3 primary sleep aids, but they just seem too low-dosed to elicit the benefits I felt, especially when products with higher doses (i.e. somnidren GH) did not have the same effects. I was using 1.5 scoops of Poseidon NT a night.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Yeah, I am aware of the 3 primary sleep aids, but they just seem too low-dosed to elicit the benefits I felt, especially when products with higher doses (i.e. somnidren GH) did not have the same effects. I was using 1.5 scoops of Poseidon NT a night.
    It also seemed funny with all the supposedly energy promoting stuff - the B vitamins and Potassium. Of course, if that ordered list is to be believed, then yeah, they'd seem to be only a pinch compared to the rest of a scoop.

    On the BB.com forums, someone whom I guess is a rep said the following:
    The amount of Phenibut is proprietary, but I can say that it's just enough to “take the edge off” and put you in a positive stress and anxiety free frame of mind. The main sleep formula is comprised of GABA & L-Trytophan....combined with a small dose of Phenibut for its relaxation properties. This combined with Magnesium Gluconate, Zinc Gluconate, Pyrodoxine, Hydrochloride, Methylcobalamin...as well as the Poseidon Complex of vitamins, minerals, & electrolytes make for a great night of sleep.
    I will have some on my doorstep tomorrow and chime in on my fat loss log if I notice anything while I use it.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nimbus Nutrition Poseidon NT gave me deeper sleep and crazier dreams than any other OTC sleep aid. .....
    I use regular Poseidon pre-bed when I have nighttime cramping issues, I have also noticed that post-workout it helps me come back down from the workout stims

  22. I used to like the old ZMT caps Nutra Planet made, bulk gaba I like too. For me, more than anything, I need a fairly large meal with carbohydrates within a few hours of bedtime or I simply will not fall asleep. When I was on keto it was impossible for me to sleep. Im not talking sugars and crap like that, just basic meat and potato type meals. Its never impacted my physique negatively either, but I train and do cardio pretty late in the day so I need/prefer those late night calories.

  23. Casein protein keeps me up all night pissing. Check out this thread I made back in '07 about it,

    Casein Pre bed no more!

  24. Quote Originally Posted by counterspy View Post
    It also seemed funny with all the supposedly energy promoting stuff - the B vitamins and Potassium. Of course, if that ordered list is to be believed, then yeah, they'd seem to be only a pinch compared to the rest of a scoop.

    On the BB.com forums, someone whom I guess is a rep said the following:


    I will have some on my doorstep tomorrow and chime in on my fat loss log if I notice anything while I use it.
    There is 100mg Phenibut per serving as per the owner of Nimbus. Again, seems low, so idk how I noticed so much.

    Keep in mind that I noticed very little for the first 2-3 weeks. There is some cumulative effect at play.

  25. A certain Dana Houser, MD said on an episode of Quantum Physiques that we need to respect the anabolic and catabolic cycles of daily life. As such night time is a key aspect of this, and I read that eating before bed inhibits Phase II liver detox (conjugation) so as such I prefer to avoid food. I simply take 5 grams BCAA, 2-3 grams Taurine, 2-3 grams Glycine and some magnesium taurate.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
    A certain Dana Houser, MD said on an episode of Quantum Physiques that we need to respect the anabolic and catabolic cycles of daily life. As such night time is a key aspect of this, and I read that eating before bed inhibits Phase II liver detox (conjugation) so as such I prefer to avoid food. I simply take 5 grams BCAA, 2-3 grams Taurine, 2-3 grams Glycine and some magnesium taurate.

    Any relation to this guy?


  27. Quote Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
    A certain Dana Houser, MD said on an episode of Quantum Physiques that we need to respect the anabolic and catabolic cycles of daily life.
    I would love to get some more information on this. For a while I was one of those suckers that thought digestion during sleep would allow extended nutrient absorption and that it would benefit me. i just ended up cramping and pissing a lot - Just like T-Bone.
    The more you sweat in times of peace, the less you bleed during war.

  28. This Poseidon NT sounds really appealing. Im gonna look into it.

    I can buy into the idea of a anabolic/catabolic cycle as per functions such as liver detox and conjugation.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
    Franz Kafka

  29. Well, last night was interesting. I was up later than usual, and I wanted to try to get some solid rest so I could rise early & walk the dog. I took 2 scoops of Poseidon NT with about 24oz of water, then sat in front of the computer to wait for drowsiness.

    I guess I never really knew what a niacin flush was, until last night. It was like I had a fiery peripheral neuropathy, except it was just my head and neck, not my hands or feet. It even hurt when I scratched my head. Anyway, as the agony started to subside, I went to bed. Eventually, I fell asleep. I only got to sleep for about 4 hours, but in that time frame, I had one wicked/stupid dream. For me, it's the kind where it is nonsensical and I wake up, almost abruptly like a nightmare, but instead wonder, "WTF was that?!"

    Mind you, it wasn't as if I expected miracles to happen after the first dose, and it's my own fault I stayed up later than I should, but this effect on my dreaming is consistent with what happened when I last took 250mg phenibut before bed, back in 2006-7.

    Edit* - it also made me wonder what effect the constituents of the regular Poseidon might have on things like Oxiracetam / CDP Choline / Centrophenoxine / Alpha GPC for daytime use.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by counterspy View Post
    Well, last night was interesting. I was up later than usual, and I wanted to try to get some solid rest so I could rise early & walk the dog. I took 2 scoops of Poseidon NT with about 24oz of water, then sat in front of the computer to wait for drowsiness.

    I guess I never really knew what a niacin flush was, until last night. It was like I had a fiery peripheral neuropathy, except it was just my head and neck, not my hands or feet. It even hurt when I scratched my head. Anyway, as the agony started to subside, I went to bed. Eventually, I fell asleep. I only got to sleep for about 4 hours, but in that time frame, I had one wicked/stupid dream. For me, it's the kind where it is nonsensical and I wake up, almost abruptly like a nightmare, but instead wonder, "WTF was that?!"

    Mind you, it wasn't as if I expected miracles to happen after the first dose, and it's my own fault I stayed up later than I should, but this effect on my dreaming is consistent with what happened when I last took 250mg phenibut before bed, back in 2006-7.

    Edit* - it also made me wonder what effect the constituents of the regular Poseidon might have on things like Oxiracetam / CDP Choline / Centrophenoxine / Alpha GPC for daytime use.
    Yeah give it time. I personally didn't even dream during the first week or so. No need to use 2 scoops btw. 1.5 was as high as I went, and it ended up being my sweet spot.
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