After Dark Muscle Building - AnabolicMinds.com

After Dark Muscle Building

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4094

    Reputation

    After Dark Muscle Building


    As per the title of the thread, I am curious people's bedtime snacks - successes and failures - whether that be particular foods that don't sit well; supplemental strategies; etc...

    After a few days, I will share with you some of the successes and failures of my clients over the years.




    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  2. New Member
    ka0tik's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    146
    Rep Power
    365

    Reputation

    zma has been a staple for 2 years along with melatonin, when needed. zma seems to help with a hangover as well.

    vitamin c and/or cla before bed is harsh on my stomach, especially when taken on an empty stomach or combined with fruit like strawberries, apples or grapes.

    50mg of 5htp gave me great sleep but made me very lethargic and out of it the next day lasting for 3-5 hours

    a pharmacy in thailand gave me tryptanol for jetlag. one pill made me sleep 12 hours and messed me up for a few days

    multivitamin as a hangover cure before bed made me have a tough time sleeping, im guessing because of the vitamin b's
  3. New Member
    redms's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  202 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    124
    Rep Power
    46032

    Reputation

    I have found zma to be very helpful as my workouts are late afternoon and have my preworkout drink fairly close to going to bed. I have no problem getting to sleep with the help of zma. I also have low fat cottage cheese just before bed. I did try nighttime proteins but felt bloated from them and found it hard to sleep feeling bloated.
    •   
       

  4. Senior Member
    ssbackwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    3027

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by ka0tik View Post
    zma has been a staple for 2 years along with melatonin, when needed. zma seems to help with a hangover as well.

    vitamin c and/or cla before bed is harsh on my stomach, especially when taken on an empty stomach or combined with fruit like strawberries, apples or grapes.

    50mg of 5htp gave me great sleep but made me very lethargic and out of it the next day lasting for 3-5 hours

    a pharmacy in thailand gave me tryptanol for jetlag. one pill made me sleep 12 hours and messed me up for a few days

    multivitamin as a hangover cure before bed made me have a tough time sleeping, im guessing because of the vitamin b's
    Melatonin is great helps not only regulate sleep but Diurnal leptin rythms.

    http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/288/4/E805.short
  5. Senior Member
    ssbackwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    3027

    Reputation

    i like to eat like 1.5 lbs of turkey chili with 4 ounce goat cheese and 2 servings of guac 2-3 hours pre bed. Works wonders. I mean i like it. Im just kinda maintaining thoguh now,.
  6. Senior Member
    OrganicShadow's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  162 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,973
    Rep Power
    251876

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I always wanted to know if waking mid sleep to eat again was a good idea or not. It seemed to rev my metabolism up but later down the road I felt like it started causing issues.

    Always supplemented Vitamin D and melatonin - especially when I worked overnight shift.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
    Franz Kafka
  7. Senior Member
    ssbackwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    3027

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    I always wanted to know if waking mid sleep to eat again was a good idea or not. It seemed to rev my metabolism up but later down the road I felt like it started causing issues.

    Always supplemented Vitamin D and melatonin - especially when I worked overnight shift.
    If you want my opinion ill give it, if not too bad.

    Its a good idea IF you were to fast a little throughout the day (somewhat) due to increased leptin levels. which in theory (at that time) will raise leptin a little higher allowing for more fat burning throughout the day, i would just not consume a meal for atleast 8 hours after that mid sleep snack.
  8. Senior Member
    Sourdough's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,137
    Rep Power
    198480

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I have an interesting twist to this as well... what about prebed workouts???

    I dont workout directly prebed right now but I have often had periods of my life where I would workout LATE, come home, eat and within 2 hours hit the sack... Ive made significant gains doing this as a hard gainer in my younger years yet I feel as though as I grow older and my metabolism is slowing that it tends to allow more weight gain in the undersireable fashion as well... so I try to workout at my equivalent to mid day...

    Thoughts on why this is????



    Prebed I enjoy a few things...

    nothing beats 1-carboxy/L-dopa for feeling of deep rest and recovery....

    BCAA's are great although not absorbed throughout the night Im not taking them for MUSCLE but rather the MIND at that point and the key roles BCAA's can play in GH release and other important brain functions...

    Lastly would be ZMA, taking this recently was more an experiment then anything, where I found it significantly helped in sleep and I would constantly wake with morning wood where previously it was not happening... leading me to believe it was aiding in test production.

    Interested in hearing your thoughts on diff supps and what reasoning late night workouts can help with hard gainers??? (at least this was true in my case and is purely anecdotal as far as I know... wondering if theres anything behind it?)
    iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html
  9. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,491
    Rep Power
    6035018

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Nimbus Nutrition Poseidon NT gave me deeper sleep and crazier dreams than any other OTC sleep aid. The profile does not seem too heavily geared towards sleep, and I honestly can't pinpoint what ingredient(s) set Poseidon NT apart, but it was fantastic. The key was to use it consistently for 6-8 weeks. The first 2-3 weeks, I barely noticed anything. As time passed, my sleep got progressively deeper. Unbelievably vivid dreams started around week 4...I created entire worlds in my mind and visited them, it was the stuff of movies. But here's the kicker:

    By week 6, I was LUCID dreaming essentially every single night. For whatever reason, I was cognizant of my dreaming every time I hit the sack. It was truly an awesome experience; I had never looked forward to sleep so much. Every night was an adventure, and I could recall my dreams perfectly the next day. Added a completely new dimension to my life. I'd like to hear what you thought caused this epic dreaming and deep sleep, because the sleep-geared ingredients look like nothing out of the ordinary.
  10. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4094

    Reputation

    Does anyone wake themselves up in the night to eat?



    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  11. Senior Member
    OrganicShadow's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  162 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,973
    Rep Power
    251876

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    If you want my opinion ill give it, if not too bad.

    Its a good idea IF you were to fast a little throughout the day (somewhat) due to increased leptin levels. which in theory (at that time) will raise leptin a little higher allowing for more fat burning throughout the day, i would just not consume a meal for atleast 8 hours after that mid sleep snack.
    Fine! Be that way! Lol, thanks.
    No I don't do that. When I worked overnight shift I was eating every 2-3 hours round the clock. Im convinced it wasnt a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    I dont workout directly prebed right now but I have often had periods of my life where I would workout LATE, come home, eat and within 2 hours hit the sack...
    Due to my work schedule and stupid long commute thats how my Tuesday/Thursday schedule goes. The I work out first thing Sat/Sun morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Does anyone wake themselves up in the night to eat?
    As stated before, I used to wake myself 2 hours prior to hit a shake then go back down till it was time to fully wake. It seemed to work great for pushing the metabolism up in the beginning but later seemed to cause problems. Not anymore, I try to get 6-7 hours uninterrupted.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
    Franz Kafka
  12. Diamond Member
    mattrag's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,027
    Rep Power
    335099

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nimbus Nutrition Poseidon NT gave me deeper sleep and crazier dreams than any other OTC sleep aid. The profile does not seem too heavily geared towards sleep, and I honestly can't pinpoint what ingredient(s) set Poseidon NT apart, but it was fantastic. The key was to use it consistently for 6-8 weeks. The first 2-3 weeks, I barely noticed anything. As time passed, my sleep got progressively deeper. Unbelievably vivid dreams started around week 4...I created entire worlds in my mind and visited them, it was the stuff of movies. But here's the kicker:

    By week 6, I was LUCID dreaming essentially every single night. For whatever reason, I was cognizant of my dreaming every time I hit the sack. It was truly an awesome experience; I had never looked forward to sleep so much. Every night was an adventure, and I could recall my dreams perfectly the next day. Added a completely new dimension to my life. I'd like to hear what you thought caused this epic dreaming and deep sleep, because the sleep-geared ingredients look like nothing out of the ordinary.

    This sounds amazing. Im gonna look into this. Anythign else give you similar experiences?
    RecoverBro ELITE
  13. Senior Member
    Sourdough's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,137
    Rep Power
    198480

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nimbus Nutrition Poseidon NT gave me deeper sleep and crazier dreams than any other OTC sleep aid. The profile does not seem too heavily geared towards sleep, and I honestly can't pinpoint what ingredient(s) set Poseidon NT apart, but it was fantastic. The key was to use it consistently for 6-8 weeks. The first 2-3 weeks, I barely noticed anything. As time passed, my sleep got progressively deeper. Unbelievably vivid dreams started around week 4...I created entire worlds in my mind and visited them, it was the stuff of movies. But here's the kicker:

    By week 6, I was LUCID dreaming essentially every single night. For whatever reason, I was cognizant of my dreaming every time I hit the sack. It was truly an awesome experience; I had never looked forward to sleep so much. Every night was an adventure, and I could recall my dreams perfectly the next day. Added a completely new dimension to my life. I'd like to hear what you thought caused this epic dreaming and deep sleep, because the sleep-geared ingredients look like nothing out of the ordinary.
    I wonder if its increasing levels of DMT.... sounds like a straight DMT trip, lol....
    iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html
  14. Senior Member
    bashman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  179 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,214
    Rep Power
    1497

    Reputation

    Usually just almonds/walnuts + shake or 6 whole eggs.
  15. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,491
    Rep Power
    6035018

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    This sounds amazing. Im gonna look into this. Anythign else give you similar experiences?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    I wonder if its increasing levels of DMT.... sounds like a straight DMT trip, lol....
    Yeah I will certainly be trying it again in the near future. As far as other products, I have tried quite a bit, and the ones that worked best gave me vivid dreams, but nothing like Poseidon NT. With Poseidon I was having dreams that "felt" like they lasted for years and were so crystal clear. One of the dreams I remember was when I was sitting in my room and reading a book. I could see every word on the page; there wasn't the usual "dream" haze. And the scary part was that the sentences flowed so well, as if written by a professional author. I'm still stumped as to how my mind did that....would love for it to recruit those writing skills for some of my essays!
  16. New Member
    counterspy's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Age
    36
    Posts
    195
    Rep Power
    1062

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nimbus Nutrition Poseidon NT gave me deeper sleep and crazier dreams than any other OTC sleep aid. The profile does not seem too heavily geared towards sleep, and I honestly can't pinpoint what ingredient(s) set Poseidon NT apart, but it was fantastic.
    I did a quick search for this, as maintaining sleep has always been a problem for me. Noticed that there were two Poseidon products, one not NT.

    NT formula:
    Taurine, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Inositol, Glutamine, Flavoring, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Gluconate, Niacin, Acesulfame Potassium, Potassium Bicaronate,Potassium Carbonate, GABA, L-Tryptophan, Phenibut, Sodium Biocarbinate, Niacin , Magnesium Gluconate, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, TriMethylGlycine, Methylcobalamin, Riboflavin ,Folic Acid, Biotin

    Non-NT:
    Taurine, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Inositol, Glutamine, Flavoring, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Gluconate, Niacin, Acesulfame Potassium, Sodium Bicarbonate, Potassium Bicaronate, Sucralose, Pantothenic acid, Zinc Gluconate, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, Trimethylglycine, Methylcobalamin, Folic Acid, Biotin

    Sticking out in the NT formula to me: GABA, L-Tryptophan, and Phenibut. I guess the vitamins and other stuff make these elements more useful? I'm curious enough to try, and there's a place I can order from who can get it to me in a day, so why not.
  17. New Member
    counterspy's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Age
    36
    Posts
    195
    Rep Power
    1062

    Reputation

    To answer Doc's question: no, I have never intentionally gotten up in the middle of the night just to eat. I have, as I mentioned earlier, gotten interrupted sleep and just felt hungry so I gave into cravings and impulses. Guess it just seemed better to do than rolling around & getting more pissed off that I couldn't go back to slumber.
  18. Diamond Member
    MidwestBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,038
    Rep Power
    3092033

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I've never set an alarm to wake up in the middle of the night just to eat; seems detrimental to the sleep cycle. I currently eat my last meal a little while before bed (usually just protein and a little fat); no special supplements or anything else. I wake up after 7-8 hours (unless I get to bed late for some reason), take my cytomel, and eat one hour later.

    In the past, I've used melatonin on a few occasions. It gave decent rest, but I didn't want to become reliant upon it.

    I've used PowerFull and Somnidren Ultra pre-bed and both have given me amazing deams.

    I'd used ZMA in the past for 2 separate month-long, or so, occasions and didn't notice anything in particular from it.

    I used to drink a casein shake (sometimes with natty pb) directly pre-bed, but stopped that. That was a pretty short stint.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
    EvoMuse Rep | This is what we've been workin on... | Inspire to Evolve
  19. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,491
    Rep Power
    6035018

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by counterspy View Post
    I did a quick search for this, as maintaining sleep has always been a problem for me. Noticed that there were two Poseidon products, one not NT.

    NT formula:
    Taurine, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Inositol, Glutamine, Flavoring, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Gluconate, Niacin, Acesulfame Potassium, Potassium Bicaronate,Potassium Carbonate, GABA, L-Tryptophan, Phenibut, Sodium Biocarbinate, Niacin , Magnesium Gluconate, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, TriMethylGlycine, Methylcobalamin, Riboflavin ,Folic Acid, Biotin

    Non-NT:
    Taurine, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Inositol, Glutamine, Flavoring, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Gluconate, Niacin, Acesulfame Potassium, Sodium Bicarbonate, Potassium Bicaronate, Sucralose, Pantothenic acid, Zinc Gluconate, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, Trimethylglycine, Methylcobalamin, Folic Acid, Biotin

    Sticking out in the NT formula to me: GABA, L-Tryptophan, and Phenibut. I guess the vitamins and other stuff make these elements more useful? I'm curious enough to try, and there's a place I can order from who can get it to me in a day, so why not.
    Yeah, I am aware of the 3 primary sleep aids, but they just seem too low-dosed to elicit the benefits I felt, especially when products with higher doses (i.e. somnidren GH) did not have the same effects. I was using 1.5 scoops of Poseidon NT a night.
  20. New Member
    counterspy's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Age
    36
    Posts
    195
    Rep Power
    1062

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Yeah, I am aware of the 3 primary sleep aids, but they just seem too low-dosed to elicit the benefits I felt, especially when products with higher doses (i.e. somnidren GH) did not have the same effects. I was using 1.5 scoops of Poseidon NT a night.
    It also seemed funny with all the supposedly energy promoting stuff - the B vitamins and Potassium. Of course, if that ordered list is to be believed, then yeah, they'd seem to be only a pinch compared to the rest of a scoop.

    On the BB.com forums, someone whom I guess is a rep said the following:
    The amount of Phenibut is proprietary, but I can say that it's just enough to “take the edge off” and put you in a positive stress and anxiety free frame of mind. The main sleep formula is comprised of GABA & L-Trytophan....combined with a small dose of Phenibut for its relaxation properties. This combined with Magnesium Gluconate, Zinc Gluconate, Pyrodoxine, Hydrochloride, Methylcobalamin...as well as the Poseidon Complex of vitamins, minerals, & electrolytes make for a great night of sleep.
    I will have some on my doorstep tomorrow and chime in on my fat loss log if I notice anything while I use it.
  21. Advanced Member
    rxp1997's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Age
    47
    Posts
    674
    Rep Power
    13208

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nimbus Nutrition Poseidon NT gave me deeper sleep and crazier dreams than any other OTC sleep aid. .....
    I use regular Poseidon pre-bed when I have nighttime cramping issues, I have also noticed that post-workout it helps me come back down from the workout stims
  22. Board Sponsor
    SwolenONE's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,185
    Rep Power
    1009624

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I used to like the old ZMT caps Nutra Planet made, bulk gaba I like too. For me, more than anything, I need a fairly large meal with carbohydrates within a few hours of bedtime or I simply will not fall asleep. When I was on keto it was impossible for me to sleep. Im not talking sugars and crap like that, just basic meat and potato type meals. Its never impacted my physique negatively either, but I train and do cardio pretty late in the day so I need/prefer those late night calories.
  23. Diamond Member
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15,955
    Rep Power
    4621961

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Casein protein keeps me up all night pissing. Check out this thread I made back in '07 about it,

    Casein Pre bed no more!
  24. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,491
    Rep Power
    6035018

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by counterspy View Post
    It also seemed funny with all the supposedly energy promoting stuff - the B vitamins and Potassium. Of course, if that ordered list is to be believed, then yeah, they'd seem to be only a pinch compared to the rest of a scoop.

    On the BB.com forums, someone whom I guess is a rep said the following:


    I will have some on my doorstep tomorrow and chime in on my fat loss log if I notice anything while I use it.
    There is 100mg Phenibut per serving as per the owner of Nimbus. Again, seems low, so idk how I noticed so much.

    Keep in mind that I noticed very little for the first 2-3 weeks. There is some cumulative effect at play.
  25. New Member
    coolbreeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    49
    Posts
    104
    Rep Power
    168

    Reputation

    A certain Dana Houser, MD said on an episode of Quantum Physiques that we need to respect the anabolic and catabolic cycles of daily life. As such night time is a key aspect of this, and I read that eating before bed inhibits Phase II liver detox (conjugation) so as such I prefer to avoid food. I simply take 5 grams BCAA, 2-3 grams Taurine, 2-3 grams Glycine and some magnesium taurate.
  26. Diamond Member
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15,955
    Rep Power
    4621961

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
    A certain Dana Houser, MD said on an episode of Quantum Physiques that we need to respect the anabolic and catabolic cycles of daily life. As such night time is a key aspect of this, and I read that eating before bed inhibits Phase II liver detox (conjugation) so as such I prefer to avoid food. I simply take 5 grams BCAA, 2-3 grams Taurine, 2-3 grams Glycine and some magnesium taurate.

    Any relation to this guy?

  27. New Member
    Diesel656's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    88

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
    A certain Dana Houser, MD said on an episode of Quantum Physiques that we need to respect the anabolic and catabolic cycles of daily life.
    I would love to get some more information on this. For a while I was one of those suckers that thought digestion during sleep would allow extended nutrient absorption and that it would benefit me. i just ended up cramping and pissing a lot - Just like T-Bone.
    The more you sweat in times of peace, the less you bleed during war.
  28. Senior Member
    OrganicShadow's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  162 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,973
    Rep Power
    251876

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    This Poseidon NT sounds really appealing. Im gonna look into it.

    I can buy into the idea of a anabolic/catabolic cycle as per functions such as liver detox and conjugation.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
    Franz Kafka
  29. New Member
    counterspy's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Age
    36
    Posts
    195
    Rep Power
    1062

    Reputation

    Well, last night was interesting. I was up later than usual, and I wanted to try to get some solid rest so I could rise early & walk the dog. I took 2 scoops of Poseidon NT with about 24oz of water, then sat in front of the computer to wait for drowsiness.

    I guess I never really knew what a niacin flush was, until last night. It was like I had a fiery peripheral neuropathy, except it was just my head and neck, not my hands or feet. It even hurt when I scratched my head. Anyway, as the agony started to subside, I went to bed. Eventually, I fell asleep. I only got to sleep for about 4 hours, but in that time frame, I had one wicked/stupid dream. For me, it's the kind where it is nonsensical and I wake up, almost abruptly like a nightmare, but instead wonder, "WTF was that?!"

    Mind you, it wasn't as if I expected miracles to happen after the first dose, and it's my own fault I stayed up later than I should, but this effect on my dreaming is consistent with what happened when I last took 250mg phenibut before bed, back in 2006-7.

    Edit* - it also made me wonder what effect the constituents of the regular Poseidon might have on things like Oxiracetam / CDP Choline / Centrophenoxine / Alpha GPC for daytime use.
  30. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,491
    Rep Power
    6035018

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by counterspy View Post
    Well, last night was interesting. I was up later than usual, and I wanted to try to get some solid rest so I could rise early & walk the dog. I took 2 scoops of Poseidon NT with about 24oz of water, then sat in front of the computer to wait for drowsiness.

    I guess I never really knew what a niacin flush was, until last night. It was like I had a fiery peripheral neuropathy, except it was just my head and neck, not my hands or feet. It even hurt when I scratched my head. Anyway, as the agony started to subside, I went to bed. Eventually, I fell asleep. I only got to sleep for about 4 hours, but in that time frame, I had one wicked/stupid dream. For me, it's the kind where it is nonsensical and I wake up, almost abruptly like a nightmare, but instead wonder, "WTF was that?!"

    Mind you, it wasn't as if I expected miracles to happen after the first dose, and it's my own fault I stayed up later than I should, but this effect on my dreaming is consistent with what happened when I last took 250mg phenibut before bed, back in 2006-7.

    Edit* - it also made me wonder what effect the constituents of the regular Poseidon might have on things like Oxiracetam / CDP Choline / Centrophenoxine / Alpha GPC for daytime use.
    Yeah give it time. I personally didn't even dream during the first week or so. No need to use 2 scoops btw. 1.5 was as high as I went, and it ended up being my sweet spot.
  31. New Member
    counterspy's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Age
    36
    Posts
    195
    Rep Power
    1062

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Yeah give it time. I personally didn't even dream during the first week or so. No need to use 2 scoops btw. 1.5 was as high as I went, and it ended up being my sweet spot.
    Last night I only took 1 scoop; barely any flush this time. Had a few dreams, don't recall any really out there, but actually stayed in the same position for the most part - that's remarkable, because typically, I'm shifting all the time because I get disturbed. Also funny, is that when I did get disturbed, it was like a mini scare. If that keeps up, I consider it a win, because it would mean I'm focused on the sleep and little else.

    Bad part is that my dog went ape-**** at 3 in the morning because she either saw foxes or deer in the yard. Even though I fell asleep quickly after that episode, I could not budge when my alarm went off at 6AM. With the weekend I can be lazy, but I have to exert more willpower during the work week.
  32. New Member
    dlasusa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    15
    Rep Power
    49

    Reputation

    Poseidon NT - caused me GI distress the following day, so I never really used it long enough to see any great effects (though I've searched and I think I'm the only one that has EVER had GI distress from Poseidon *shrug*)

    Cottage Cheese - always made me feel much LESS rested

    Melatonin 3mg oral - worked but left me very groggy in the morning

    Melatonin 1mg sublingual - love it, works well...but I try to only use it when I really NEED to use it (Red eye flights, etc.)

    Yogi "Bedtime" tea - not as noticeable as melatonin for me, but nice and relaxing.

    Bioforge V3 - I don't take it at night, but after a week or so, I find that I'm sleeping really well.

    Still looking for something for those more vivid dreams!
  33. Senior Member
    OrganicShadow's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  162 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,973
    Rep Power
    251876

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by counterspy View Post
    I guess I never really knew what a niacin flush was, until last night.
    Im like a high school girl on orgasms here: I think I know Ive had it once or twice but Im not sure exactly its what I felt.

    Melatonin Ive learned the importance of cycling it. Tried some bedtime teas, the mental idea of winding down helps a lot. That and picking a song almost as a lullaby. Things that mentally trigger drowsiness.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
    Franz Kafka
  34. Senior Member
    AdelV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,940
    Rep Power
    45188

    Reputation

    Food before bed is bad? Done that for 10 yra, healthy and lean! I sleep much better if i eat carbs before bed.. Weird! I tried the no eatin for 4 hrs before bed.. Didnt lose any strengh from it either. im interested what the best line to take is!
  35. Senior Member
    Sourdough's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,137
    Rep Power
    198480

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    well its a fact. If you have circulating insulin in your body when you go to sleep, it will inhibit GH release.

    That alone is a good reason to avoid foods that spike blood glucose for a few hours pre-bed...



    the Dr has been MIA a lot recently... would be really nice to get his input on some of these threads...
  36. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4094

    Reputation

    I am pawing through this one...some rapid-fire comments:

    1) Yes, as coolbreeze offered, I do think a significant amount of bodybuilding is sometimes lost in "lifestyle" and I think it would pay off in such a small way, if at all, to wake yourself up in the middle of the night to eat. Sleep plays such a quintessential role in the diurnal hormonal process that interrupting this would be a significant problem.

    2) While niacin before sleep is an "ok" idea; I usually have clients "graduate" to high-order niacin therapy when they have been with me long enough...and that means EVERYONE! Misinterpretations of the AIM-HIGH trial aside, if you want a healthy body, if you want to have successful control of hormones; niacin is important. BUT, before sleep is only if you really can't take the 2-5 minute niacin flush.

    Allow simple illustration with the following graph with GH:

    http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com...h-hormone.html

    exercise-induced effect: niacin “turbocharges” the growth hormone response to anaerobic exercise!!!

    Now, it also comes with copious other POSITIVES, but for those supplementing it at night, and those who don't essentially cry about a little flush (Christ, if you're using Beta-alanine and not niacin....SHAME on you!!). And I mean a "REAL" dose guys upwards of about 2 grams for those truly serious about maximizing hormonal response and health effects (namely isolated low HDL syndrome and Anabolic Steroid use).

    3. GABA - I like this agent in pulsatile fashion; in other words, adopting different supplemental protocols rather than EVERY day. Whether that be every other day or 5-on/2-off or 3-on/1-off ... whatever the case, it has nice sleep induction GH Secretion synergism. I don't think it can be ignored. Does it belong in a combo product like those mentione in this thread? Feck NO!!!!

    4. Melatonin - great option; again, not a fan of nightly use (you will see a trend with nighttime supps) - this could even play a role in estrogen antagonism; there's still a lot unclear about it though.

    5. Stop it with leptin!!!! Leptin discussion in every thread, although it is very rare, in some humans - leptin deficiency - just like that in the ob/ob mouse - has been identified ; this is where the propagation of false info began (kind of like Cushing's Syndrome/Disease data being applied to "belly fat" Relacore, et al commercials - STOP IT)!!!! Now, leptin resistance can be acknowledged, BUT like insulin resistance - the more FAT you are - the more RESISTANCE will develop. Your best bet is to lose weight to combat resistance and this does NOT need to come in the form of FASTING ( that is unfounded and has NOT proven reality in it's claims as the "holy grail" of weight loss - why? Humans and mice differ in its configuration and when we took studies to humans, the theory literally sh*t the bed!!!). This is one time where petri dishes and mouse models are junk. Just as being more fat will lead to more resistance; Being more thin will alleviate this (simple). However, understand that leptin is produced by fat cells and the fatter you are, the more you make. You will be making less by losing weight; the key is NOT to just throw more leptin into the equation - a theory that failed over a decade ago...that's like throwing insulin at a type 2 diabetic patient (insulin resistant) - more insulin does NOT alleviate insulin resistance...it actually makes it worse.

    The key is losing weight and your best push with "fasting" protocols is that you might be able to comply better and lose more weight; but I still maintain when you collectively take ALL hormones and ALL metabolic cascades into account (testosterone, cortisol, nitrogen retention, hypothalamic regulation, etc...) - fasting is NOT superior in that domain. It will help people lose "weight." I will offer the best transition from point A to point B with "maintenance of muscle tissue" and loss of "fat." You cannot convince me that the data is there for "fasting" when it comes to maintaining muscle, etc... in a CONTROLLED setting.



    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  37. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4094

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    well its a fact. If you have circulating insulin in your body when you go to sleep, it will inhibit GH release.

    That alone is a good reason to avoid foods that spike blood glucose for a few hours pre-bed...



    the Dr has been MIA a lot recently... would be really nice to get his input on some of these threads...

    Unfortunately, there will be times when it is more difficult for me to respond than others. Just a fact of life. I think is more appropriate to rephrase your statement above in fairness though...

    "If you have circulating insulin in your body when you go to sleep, it will attenuate GH release."

    Keep in mind, your greatest GH-burst is during sleep INDUCTION; one could pontificate that multiple nap/sleep sessions throuhgout the day versus one concentrated rest would yield higher GH...but one might also suggest who cares! I mean, that isn't practical - nor has it been for anyone - except Albert Einstein interestingly enough - he'd sleep 15 minutes of every hour and obviously function well from a cognitive capacity.

    Fortunately, GH is pulsatile throughout the day, so I would question how much this would really mean stacked up against things like nitrogen retention and a whopping dose of cortisol.

    I am not making a case either way (there are arguments on both sides) - per se, here...just looking for experiences (successes/failures).


    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  38. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4094

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    Food before bed is bad? Done that for 10 yra, healthy and lean! I sleep much better if i eat carbs before bed.. Weird! I tried the no eatin for 4 hrs before bed.. Didnt lose any strengh from it either. im interested what the best line to take is!
    Not necessarily "weird" as metabolisms, genetics, et al... differ and should be considered on a case-by-case basis which is why I am an advocate of personalized programs versus following bodybuilder Joe's out of Magazine X.



    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  39. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4094

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
    A certain Dana Houser, MD said on an episode of Quantum Physiques that we need to respect the anabolic and catabolic cycles of daily life. As such night time is a key aspect of this, and I read that eating before bed inhibits Phase II liver detox (conjugation) so as such I prefer to avoid food. I simply take 5 grams BCAA, 2-3 grams Taurine, 2-3 grams Glycine and some magnesium taurate.
    Unfortunately, I don't know about the liver detox per se and I am uncertain I have seen data to even postulate a mechanism as GI transit time before overt assimilation of particulate matter does not occur prior to reaching the small intestine (2-2.5 hours post-ingestion).

    Not knocking it, but what have you noticed from Taurine and Glycine (we have touched on the glycine before a little bit)...

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Any relation to this guy?

    Howser does not equate with Houser

    Also, I prefer vaginas!



    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  40. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4094

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Casein protein keeps me up all night pissing. Check out this thread I made back in '07 about it,

    Casein Pre bed no more!
    ...no idea...

    Post #15 in that thread probably holds truth.


    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. new to muscle building.
    By dee23232 in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-06-2011, 05:44 PM
  2. HRT and building muscle
    By dirtwarrior in forum 35 and Older
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-06-2011, 09:27 PM
  3. For Sale: MHP Dark Rage Cola Fizz (Muscle Builders)
    By mpness in forum Supplement Auction
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-18-2009, 08:32 PM
  4. For Sale: Muscle Building Package (Muscle Builders)
    By anty in forum Supplement Auction
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-06-2009, 10:12 PM
  5. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 06-06-2008, 11:27 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in