3,3 Diiodo L Thryonine and 3,5 Diiodo L Thyronine...works?

  1. Elite Member
    MAxximal's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,901
    Rep Power
    122082
    Level
    55
    Lv. Percent
    25.36%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    3,3 Diiodo L Thryonine and 3,5 Diiodo L Thyronine...works?


    Hi Dana


    What do you think about 3,3 Diiodo L Thryonine and 3,5 Diiodo L Thyronine really works?


    Thanks
    SNS Online Representative
    Maxximal @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com

    Got Glycophase ...?



  2. Senior Member
    ssbackwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    3030
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    98.29%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    to get legitamite sources are so hard to do for these ingredients, plus EXPENSIVE. i dont know how they do this. i always buy the powders of these products bc id rather do that (much cheaper, actually just got a kilo of ALA instead of caps). Found a kilo to be so expensive.
  3. Elite Member
    MAxximal's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,901
    Rep Power
    122082
    Level
    55
    Lv. Percent
    25.36%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    one thing i noticed when i used this stuff is a tremendous lethargy is like hypoglycemic symptoms
    SNS Online Representative
    Maxximal @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com

    Got Glycophase ...?


    •   
       

  4. Senior Member
    BBB's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  192 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,874
    Rep Power
    321372
    Level
    39
    Lv. Percent
    10.52%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    I've been using Dexaprine which contains both products. This stuff is a great energy enhancer. I am a bit concerned about the long term effects of using thyroid hormones.
  5. Elite Member
    MAxximal's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,901
    Rep Power
    122082
    Level
    55
    Lv. Percent
    25.36%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    bump!
    SNS Online Representative
    Maxximal @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com

    Got Glycophase ...?


  6. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,736
    Rep Power
    1317329
    Level
    94
    Lv. Percent
    29.36%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    one thing i noticed when i used this stuff is a tremendous lethargy is like hypoglycemic symptoms
    I get the same thing when I use any thyroid modulator. ALCAR and coffee help out a lot.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  7. Elite Member
    MAxximal's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,901
    Rep Power
    122082
    Level
    55
    Lv. Percent
    25.36%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I get the same thing when I use any thyroid modulator. ALCAR and coffee help out a lot.
    very true and this is i use a stim too. and another thing i noticed after few days of use the stuff every meal i eat no matter what got insane hungry again in less an hour.
    SNS Online Representative
    Maxximal @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com

    Got Glycophase ...?


  8. New Member
    RawStrength's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    197
    Rep Power
    333
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    47.78%

    Any truth to the statement that 3,5 is more suppressive than 3,3?

    I have read before that 3,5 diiodo-l-thryonine will suppress your natural TSH function but 3,3 diiodo-l-thryonine wont do this.

    Any truth?
  9. Elite Member
    BPjohn123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    30
    Posts
    6,985
    Rep Power
    7211398
    Level
    91
    Lv. Percent
    29.97%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Bump for the doc..
    PES REPRESENTATIVE
    pescience.com
    http://pescience.com/insider
  10. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4097
    Level
    20
    Lv. Percent
    86%

    Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    What do you think about 3,3’ Diiodo L Thryonine and 3,5 Diiodo L Thyronine really works?
    We need to define "works" the way you are using it.


    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    to get legitamite sources are so hard to do for these ingredients, plus EXPENSIVE. i dont know how they do this. i always buy the powders of these products bc id rather do that (much cheaper, actually just got a kilo of ALA instead of caps). Found a kilo to be so expensive.
    Yes, as I commented on in a similar thread and talking to Matt Boldt (owner of SAN); I would be very choosy in my sampling of products and the SAN one is probably the best if you are going to try one at all. Even with the 3,5 - they are nothing like they used to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    one thing i noticed when i used this stuff is a tremendous lethargy is like hypoglycemic symptoms
    If you are not hypothyroid; you can certainly rev up all metabolic processing to a level that is effectively ... "too much." It will actually chew away muscle tissue in this scenario.



    Quote Originally Posted by RawStrength View Post
    Any truth to the statement that 3,5 is more suppressive than 3,3?

    I have read before that 3,5 diiodo-l-thryonine will suppress your natural TSH function but 3,3 diiodo-l-thryonine wont do this.

    Any truth?
    This is pure pontification from studies; however, most combine the two - so you'd have potential for suppression in either sense. I have tried 3,3 solo and don't feel as though I get any effect from it; nor have my thyroid numbers moved at all unfortunately.


    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  11. New Member
    RawStrength's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    197
    Rep Power
    333
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    47.78%

    Thanks doc!

    So something like Pure T2 from taurus (which is just 3,5 diiodo) or TT-33 from Iforce (which is a combo of 3,3 and 3,5) should be fine to take?

    I was only concerned since within the advertisement for alpha T2 (which is just 3,3) they sad said that 3,5 was suppressive and more dangerous and 3,3 being the better option.

    Glad to hear this isnt true. Thanks for clearing it all up doc!
  12. Senior Member
    ssbackwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    3030
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    98.29%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    i duno i tried sourcing this powder myself as id experiment. not sure of the MW but if it was under 300 it would go in a topical, if it was over id consume enough for me to feel it.

    Price though for a minimum of a kilo is so insanely high, i wonder how some companies do it. especially the newer ones.
  13. Senior Member
    Rhadam's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  196 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,815
    Rep Power
    596680
    Level
    47
    Lv. Percent
    58.14%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    i duno i tried sourcing this powder myself as id experiment. not sure of the MW but if it was under 300 it would go in a topical, if it was over id consume enough for me to feel it.

    Price though for a minimum of a kilo is so insanely high, i wonder how some companies do it. especially the newer ones.
    I think it's pretty obvious how they do it lol.
    ~ Serious Nutrition Solutions ~
    Ask me about Reload. Free SNS for your labels
    Rhadam [@] seriousnutritionsolutions.com
  14. New Member
    RawStrength's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    197
    Rep Power
    333
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    47.78%

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhadam View Post
    I think it's pretty obvious how they do it lol.
    Care to elaborate?

    Curious as to what you are implying here..
  15. Elite Member
    BPjohn123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    30
    Posts
    6,985
    Rep Power
    7211398
    Level
    91
    Lv. Percent
    29.97%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by RawStrength View Post
    Care to elaborate?

    Curious as to what you are implying here..
    Yes...interested
    PES REPRESENTATIVE
    pescience.com
    http://pescience.com/insider
  16. New Member
    RawStrength's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    197
    Rep Power
    333
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    47.78%

    Quote Originally Posted by BPjohn123 View Post
    Yes...interested
    Seems like he is suggesting that Taurus pure T2 and PES alpha T2 and shift products do not contain real diiodo or is spiked with something else or in underdosed or... I dunno what else he could be suggesting. He did used to work with Eric (former owner of LG and current owner of Taurus) so maybe he knows something we dont (inside scoop) ???
  17. Elite Member
    BPjohn123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    30
    Posts
    6,985
    Rep Power
    7211398
    Level
    91
    Lv. Percent
    29.97%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by RawStrength View Post
    Seems like he is suggesting that Taurus pure T2 and PES alpha T2 and shift products do not contain real diiodo or is spiked with something else or in underdosed or... I dunno what else he could be suggesting. He did used to work with Eric (former owner of LG and current owner of Taurus) so maybe he knows something we dont (inside scoop) ???
    Or maybe he doesn't.

    PES REPRESENTATIVE
    pescience.com
    http://pescience.com/insider
  18. Senior Member
    classic34's Avatar
    Stats
    5'3"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Age
    24
    Posts
    1,476
    Rep Power
    1396226
    Level
    53
    Lv. Percent
    66.97%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    i duno i tried sourcing this powder myself as id experiment. not sure of the MW but if it was under 300 it would go in a topical, if it was over id consume enough for me to feel it.

    Price though for a minimum of a kilo is so insanely high, i wonder how some companies do it. especially the newer ones.
    You do realize how much a kilo of these ingredients is right? They are dosed in micrograms...1 kilo goes a loooong way.
    USPlabs | Ultra-Premium Sports Supplements | Product Educator

    usplabsdirect.com
  19. Senior Member
    ssbackwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    3030
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    98.29%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by classic34 View Post
    You do realize how much a kilo of these ingredients is right? They are dosed in micrograms...1 kilo goes a loooong way.
    oh absolutely

    but
    when there are 10g per bottle,

    assuming 100 bottle is equal to 1 kilo.............

    they pay assuming its 3500 per kilo (i think it was around there give or take 200), they are more then likely paying upward of 15k for 500bottle, maybe more which doesnt include bottling labeling and testing.

    quite a price to be honest.
  20. Senior Member
    Ev52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Age
    31
    Posts
    2,334
    Rep Power
    33137
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    63.21%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    oh absolutely

    but
    when there are 10g per bottle,

    assuming 100 bottle is equal to 1 kilo.............

    they pay assuming its 3500 per kilo (i think it was around there give or take 200), they are more then likely paying upward of 15k for 500bottle, maybe more which doesnt include bottling labeling and testing.

    quite a price to be honest.
    However, like anything it drops significantly when buying in bulk. Check the price on 25 kilo's.
  21. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4097
    Level
    20
    Lv. Percent
    86%

    Quote Originally Posted by RawStrength View Post
    Thanks doc!

    So something like Pure T2 from taurus (which is just 3,5 diiodo) or TT-33 from Iforce (which is a combo of 3,3 and 3,5) should be fine to take?

    I was only concerned since within the advertisement for alpha T2 (which is just 3,3) they sad said that 3,5 was suppressive and more dangerous and 3,3 being the better option.

    Glad to hear this isnt true. Thanks for clearing it all up doc!
    The combo products are "interesting" as the entire rationale for using them in this fashion is to avoid potential suppression and yet still they put the 3,5 variant in coupled with the 3,3'.

    Let's back up for a second and understand how this whole 3,5-T2 = suppresion / 3,3'-T2 = non-suppression thing shapes up...

    T3 and 3,5-T2 are very similar in their effect on TSH with suppression at about 75% in RODENTS (mice or rats; I don't recall exactly nor do I have the citation). Similar studies with the 3,3'-T2 variant have comparably shown no suppression, however, one must consider the 3,5 is STRICTLY thyromimetic, which can NOT be said about the 3,3'.

    For those looking at quick cycles (your guess at a definition for this term is as good as mine); I am uncertain the level of suppression that would be seen with even the 3,5-T2 because there is an exponential impact when considering iodination cascades and susbequent feed into the HPTA. What I can say is that 3,5-T2 has actually increased basal metabolic rate (as measured gas analysis through either direct or indirect calorimetry as well as through calculation of the RQ for an individual). 3,5-T2 also has a MUCH better effect on GH secretion, increasing it about 5-fold.

    How to summarize my aforementioned jibberish...

    (1) I am not chastizing those that use both, BUT the reason to use both is NOT to avoid suppression.
    (2) Suppression by way of 3,5-T2 can be avoided by short cycles, though we've never understood well what truly constitues "short."
    (3) There is an exponential effect seen with T2/T3 and TSH and this allows us "rough predictability" of how long it would take to see effect on the HPTA, but nothing more (and I don't care if the best advertised supplement manufacturer suggests the contrary).
    (4) Additional hormone alteration - like that of a 5-fold increase in GH - is seen with the 3,5-T2 and NOT the 3,3'-T2.
    (5) I cannot speak for Taurus Nutrition's or IForce's products as no one outside of SAN has proven good sourcing in my estimation (not that I have asked said groups...but SAN is the only one I could verify). Given this is a VERY HARD item to source; I am gathering it is exceedingly easy to get screwed in this market if trying these products and a "buyer beware" effort should be used.



    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  22. Senior Member
    classic34's Avatar
    Stats
    5'3"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Age
    24
    Posts
    1,476
    Rep Power
    1396226
    Level
    53
    Lv. Percent
    66.97%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    oh absolutely

    but
    when there are 10g per bottle,

    assuming 100 bottle is equal to 1 kilo.............

    they pay assuming its 3500 per kilo (i think it was around there give or take 200), they are more then likely paying upward of 15k for 500bottle, maybe more which doesnt include bottling labeling and testing.

    quite a price to be honest.
    10g per bottle for a typical 100 cap bottle would be 100mg per cap...100mcg per cap works out much cheaper.
    USPlabs | Ultra-Premium Sports Supplements | Product Educator

    usplabsdirect.com
  23. New Member
    RawStrength's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    197
    Rep Power
    333
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    47.78%

    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    The combo products are "interesting" as the entire rationale for using them in this fashion is to avoid potential suppression and yet still they put the 3,5 variant in coupled with the 3,3'.

    Let's back up for a second and understand how this whole 3,5-T2 = suppresion / 3,3'-T2 = non-suppression thing shapes up...

    T3 and 3,5-T2 are very similar in their effect on TSH with suppression at about 75% in RODENTS (mice or rats; I don't recall exactly nor do I have the citation). Similar studies with the 3,3'-T2 variant have comparably shown no suppression, however, one must consider the 3,5 is STRICTLY thyromimetic, which can NOT be said about the 3,3'.

    For those looking at quick cycles (your guess at a definition for this term is as good as mine); I am uncertain the level of suppression that would be seen with even the 3,5-T2 because there is an exponential impact when considering iodination cascades and susbequent feed into the HPTA. What I can say is that 3,5-T2 has actually increased basal metabolic rate (as measured gas analysis through either direct or indirect calorimetry as well as through calculation of the RQ for an individual). 3,5-T2 also has a MUCH better effect on GH secretion, increasing it about 5-fold.

    How to summarize my aforementioned jibberish...

    (1) I am not chastizing those that use both, BUT the reason to use both is NOT to avoid suppression.
    (2) Suppression by way of 3,5-T2 can be avoided by short cycles, though we've never understood well what truly constitues "short."
    (3) There is an exponential effect seen with T2/T3 and TSH and this allows us "rough predictability" of how long it would take to see effect on the HPTA, but nothing more (and I don't care if the best advertised supplement manufacturer suggests the contrary).
    (4) Additional hormone alteration - like that of a 5-fold increase in GH - is seen with the 3,5-T2 and NOT the 3,3'-T2.
    (5) I cannot speak for Taurus Nutrition's or IForce's products as no one outside of SAN has proven good sourcing in my estimation (not that I have asked said groups...but SAN is the only one I could verify). Given this is a VERY HARD item to source; I am gathering it is exceedingly easy to get screwed in this market if trying these products and a "buyer beware" effort should be used.



    D_
    Thanks for the response doc!

    Couple questions..

    1- what kind of effect will TSH suppression have on me? Would it effect testosterone production? (I imagine so since you mentioned HPTA)

    2. If TSH does get suppressed, is there anyway to bring it back? Do you know of anything that will help restore TSH? I guess a PCT sort to speak? I have heard DAA is helpful post cycle when your FH is suppressed.. Would DAA help restore FSH too?

    3. If my TSH gets suppressed due to the 3,5 usage.. How would I know? Are there any signs or symptoms I should look for which would indicate TSH suppression? I imagine blood work would be the definitive way to know but was wondering if there were any signs I could look for.

    And lastly.. What if I am on a anabolic cycle while taking the 3,5.. Would a suppressed TSH effect the anabolics results? I wouldnt think so since anabolics dont work with the HPTA since it is outside hormones... Am I wrong?

    Thanks a million doc!!!!
  24. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4097
    Level
    20
    Lv. Percent
    86%

    Quote Originally Posted by RawStrength View Post
    1- what kind of effect will TSH suppression have on me? Would it effect testosterone production? (I imagine so since you mentioned HPTA)
    I am NOT a fan of the term HPTA with "T" meaning "Testicular" due to the confusion that can arise when considering the other HPTA with "T" equalling "Thyroidal" axis. To discern the two - when you hear me reference the testes and their respective axis, it will be very clearly labeled HPGA with "G" equalling "Gonadal" axis.

    TSH suppressive actions means that as any of the following: T2/T3/T4 go up, TSH (signal to produce MORE of said thyroidal products) goes DOWN as the signal is being effectively "turned off" - the concern is that in the long-run, you may become dependent on thyroidal products or wreak the side effects - slowed endogenous metabolism, et al...



    2. If TSH does get suppressed, is there anyway to bring it back? Do you know of anything that will help restore TSH? I guess a PCT sort to speak? I have heard DAA is helpful post cycle when your FH is suppressed.. Would DAA help restore FSH too?
    In a word, "time." If anything is going to help "bring TSH back" like many other hormonal pituitary signals...it's time. There is an exponential shift in TSH...but usually this takes on average about 3-6 weeks to "re-set." 7-keto DHEA, tyrosine, and iodine may be "helpful" however, getting the dose incorrect could also play detriment and most take said agents in a haphazard manner.

    DAA has no identified role in the thyroidal axis.



    3. If my TSH gets suppressed due to the 3,5 usage.. How would I know? Are there any signs or symptoms I should look for which would indicate TSH suppression? I imagine blood work would be the definitive way to know but was wondering if there were any signs I could look for.
    While it may sound counter-intuitive, a low TSH means hypERthyroid (increased thyroid) that you have supplied exogenously. In effect...you could look for signs of hypERthyroidism (rapid heart beat/flutter, increased sweating, and so on...) however, it is very difficult to discern this with signs of acute thyroid product ingestion if dosing too high; it's also very difficult if you (as many are) are ingesting many stimulants as the "symptoms" are VERY similar.



    And lastly.. What if I am on a anabolic cycle while taking the 3,5.. Would a suppressed TSH effect the anabolics results? I wouldnt think so since anabolics dont work with the HPTA since it is outside hormones... Am I wrong?

    Thanks a million doc!!!!
    Again, let's discern the following:

    1) HPTA (thyroid): affected by thyroid products

    2) HPGA (gonadal/testis): affected by anabolic steroids/prohormones, et al...


    -- hypERthyroid states can be VERY CATABOLIC (breaking down) which is why people take them when attempting to lose fat (fat is one of only 4 tissue types you have in your ENTIRE body) and CATABOLIC periods are necessary if you are ever to rid your body of any of said tissue types (something that even most "experts" forget).

    THYROID stuff in general is VERY TRICKY and could play an unfortunate role if employing them haphazardly...if doing so without the assistance of a well-identified clinician, use EXTREME caution. I could take the role of saying "don't use them at all," but I realize too that those words will fall on deaf ears in most instances (that is not directed toward you; it's just a general understanding being around the physique conscious - or anyone for that matter over the better part of the last 20 years).


    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  25. Board Sponsor
    Urban Monk's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,462
    Rep Power
    14388
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    8.03%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    People often suggest products like Lean Xtreme (DS) or a 7-Keto product as PCT for using these type of products. Do you agree w/ that?
  26. New Member
    alexoc949's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Age
    36
    Posts
    378
    Rep Power
    96512
    Level
    22
    Lv. Percent
    30.93%

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Monk View Post
    People often suggest products like Lean Xtreme (DS) or a 7-Keto product as PCT for using these type of products. Do you agree w/ that?
    like PES Erase?

    i'm wondering the same thing.
  27. New Member
    D3Baseball's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  196 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Age
    24
    Posts
    467
    Rep Power
    9705
    Level
    17
    Lv. Percent
    96.56%

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Monk View Post
    People often suggest products like Lean Xtreme (DS) or a 7-Keto product as PCT for using these type of products. Do you agree w/ that?
    He used to recommend this, yes. I'm interested in whether he still does as he seems a little more pessimistic in this posting about the diiodos than he has in older postings.

    Dr. Houser, I cut (and bulk, sometimes) using Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0. This involves week long "cycles" with 4 keto days, 2 refeed days, and one day that can go either way based on user preference. If using a thyroidal (SAN T2 Xtreme, contains both 3,3' and 3,5) in this kind of 4 on - 3 off manner, are chances of suppression lowered or am I just begging for fat gain during the refeed period due to some temporary suppression? Can't decide which way to think of it and I suppose you may not be able to know either.

    Thanks!
  28. Featured Author
    dinoiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    4097
    Level
    20
    Lv. Percent
    86%

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Monk View Post
    People often suggest products like Lean Xtreme (DS) or a 7-Keto product as PCT for using these type of products. Do you agree w/ that?
    The problem with Lean Xtreme is that it is not monotherapy (in other words, the multi-ingredient and proprietary blend offering makes it very difficult to discern what kind of dosing is needed, etc...).

    Furthering the problem is that 7-OH variants have less ORAL bioavailability.

    7-Keto products are great (are cheaper and have better oral bioavailability)...even for long periods (designated as longer than 8-12 weeks).


    Quote Originally Posted by alexoc949 View Post
    like PES Erase?
    Are you asking if you should use ERASE followed by a 7-keto "PCT"?


    Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    He used to recommend this, yes. I'm interested in whether he still does as he seems a little more pessimistic in this posting about the diiodos than he has in older postings.
    I am not pessimistic per se.

    Think of the logic used on combo products...

    Issue #1:
    We want to avoid suppression so we'll use the new 3,3' + 3,5 and that is somehow supposed to avoid suppression (a 3,3' may but not a combo)

    Issue #2:
    IF you are talking about something STRICTLY thyromimetic, you would absolutely HAVE TO get some level of TSH suppression. That's fortunately or unfortunately (dependent upon how you look at it); the way it works. Incidentally, you do have Cytomel (T3) users with significant suppression of their TSH, but I don't hear many of them complaining.


    Dr. Houser
    , I cut (and bulk, sometimes) using Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0. This involves week long "cycles" with 4 keto days, 2 refeed days, and one day that can go either way based on user preference. If using a thyroidal (SAN T2 Xtreme, contains both 3,3' and 3,5) in this kind of 4 on - 3 off manner, are chances of suppression lowered or am I just begging for fat gain during the refeed period due to some temporary suppression? Can't decide which way to think of it and I suppose you may not be able to know either.

    Thanks!
    If you are going to use the thyroidal stimulant at all, I have found the response greater when used straight through (as opposd to say, a stim using in the 5-on, 2-off method due to autoregulation). Now, using periods of carb-up will stave off suppression of thyroidal axis dysregulation induced by a low-carb and/or low-calorie diet at baseline. The use of thyoridal stimulants like T2s or T3 would possibly afford you the thyroidal issue all-in-all when it comes to low-carb dieting, however.

    The true understanding of this is still a work in process, but it is becoming more and more clear with more time of use.


    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  29. New Member
    D3Baseball's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  196 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Age
    24
    Posts
    467
    Rep Power
    9705
    Level
    17
    Lv. Percent
    96.56%

    Thank you for the thoughtful reply!
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. 3,5-diiodo-l-thyronine presentation
    By holmes215 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-24-2011, 04:47 PM
  2. 3,5'-Diiodo-L-Thyronine and aerobic fitness
    By Sevaldrud in forum Supplements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-17-2011, 03:05 PM
  3. 3,3 and 3,5 Diiodo-L-Thyronine
    By LJ57 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 12-07-2010, 03:44 PM
  4. Bad Sides from Trx (3,5 diiodo-l-thyronine)
    By Brodus in forum Supplements
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-14-2004, 07:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in