Glucose Disposal Agents - Q&A with Dr. Dana Houser

[ssbackwards]

Things with the organic salts of vanadium SHOULD BE CYCLED. Studies show BA and uptake is greater into vanadium sensitive tissue like lkidneys and boneVS has poor bioavailability and is excreted readily so I feel ot to be supperior and no need to cycle off VS supplementsAlso 30mg BMOV is equivalent to 50mg VSYou don't see gastro sides of either till you hit about 125-150mg VS and 90-120mg bmovHowever that dose will vary among person. Some people get gastro sides at 100mg vs or 60mg bmovHope this helps a little

[MAxximal]

i gotta kilo of powder coming to my house this week!

and 1000 00 caps. gunna cap by hand and some other goodies. goat rue 3% gymnemma HCA yellowgold banaba (all mixed together)

ohhhh GOD Santa`s waiting for me!!!!!!!

[chainsaw]

What about using a GDA while bulking? Seems the mentioned of it in this thread is referred to cutting?

[Sourdough]

I love GDA's for bulking, always allows me to get in great amounts of cals, utilize what Im putting in better AND seems to minimize fat gain.

[AaronJP1]

Yeah Im courious on these GDAs as well.
I have been an advid user of glycobol.
Tried slin-sane it was ok. I felt it worked decently.
I have been looking at recompadrol as of lately, havent gotten around to researching all the ingredients and I have been thinking about giving the glycobol a break and try the recompadrol which I will probably do, but I want some feedback from people that knows those ingredients inside out or have used both products.

[chainsaw]

What dose on the Cinnamon 4:1?

Specifically how should one dose GDA's (Na-Rala, Recompadrol) in reference to dieting? With or without carb meals? Before or after workout?

[houstontexas]

I have been using leangains for quite a while now and have achieved a lot. I've recently incorporated carb back loading into my eating formula. Here is a sample of my eating schedule for a typical week.

M-F = Workout Days

break fast at noon = 800 calories, less than 50g carbs, 125-150g protein, XXg fat

Pre workout (sometimes) = 120 calories, 24g protein from scoop of whey

Post workout = 1680 calories, more than 200g carbs, 75-100g protein, XXg fat. Depending on what time it is, how tired I am, blah blah blah, I may split this into a typical post workout shake and another meal afterwards or I may just eat it all in one sitting.

2600 calorie daily avg

Sat-Sun = Non workout days

2000 calorie daily avg with around 30-100g carbs max

I have Recompadrol and Slin Sane and have been using them for my post workout meal, but after skimming through this thread it seems that is a bad idea. I'm looking for some help figuring out how to use them more efficiently given my schedule or even some redirection as far as my schedule goes. Thanks and if there is just a certain post in this thread I should reread to get my answer feel free to point me in that direction and I'll stfu lol.

[RawStrength]

I have been using leangains for quite a while now and have achieved a lot. I've recently incorporated carb back loading into my eating formula. Here is a sample of my eating schedule for a typical week.

M-F = Workout Days

break fast at noon = 800 calories, less than 50g carbs, 125-150g protein, XXg fat

Pre workout (sometimes) = 120 calories, 24g protein from scoop of whey

Post workout = 1680 calories, more than 200g carbs, 75-100g protein, XXg fat. Depending on what time it is, how tired I am, blah blah blah, I may split this into a typical post workout shake and another meal afterwards or I may just eat it all in one sitting.

2600 calorie daily avg

Sat-Sun = Non workout days

2000 calorie daily avg with around 30-100g carbs max

I have Recompadrol and Slin Sane and have been using them for my post workout meal, but after skimming through this thread it seems that is a bad idea. I'm looking for some help figuring out how to use them more efficiently given my schedule or even some redirection as far as my schedule goes. Thanks and if there is just a certain post in this thread I should reread to get my answer feel free to point me in that direction and I'll stfu lol.

Thanks for posting this but whats with the X for fat? How much fat are with these meals?

[Whacked]

Devil's advocate time:

Where is the proof that any or all of these GDA's in any form force the carbs into the muscle cells verses the adipocytes/fat cells? Enhanced insulin sensitivity/glucose tolerance is one thing, enhanced muscle cell sensitivity is entirely different.

If the subject worked out/trained, cool, the muscle cell receptors are extra sensitive already (while the fat cells are desesitized/resistant) and I subscribe the theory that the glucose will preferentially be directed towards these muscle cells (as opposed to fat cells)....but this occurs with or w/o GDAs.

However, when in a non-trained state, no matter the pathways/MOA utilized here (be it increased insulin sensitivity or enhanced insulin release), I guess I have yet to see anything that supports the use of these GDA's. I have an open mind and would like to accept the science, if one can prove it to me.

What drives me nuts is when people attempt to substantiate the proof by making statements like "When I'm taking GDA's with carbs, I dont feel as lethargic post-prandially". Again, where is the proof that these GDA's are directing the carbs towards muscles instead of fat cells? Removing the carbs from the blood quicker, even when it enters the fat cells instead, will cause a decreased perception of malaise post-carb intake for the carb-sensitive crowd. So will a small dose of caffeine

***Look, I do not dispute the ability of these agents to clear the blood of glucose in an more expeditious fashion. I just want to see more studies validating the claims that these GDA's are actually useful in mitigating lipogensis to any appreciable degree by allegedly forcing the activity/changing the processes by which insulin PREFERS to shuttle the carbs towards muscle cells preferentially. I've tried a plethora of these GDA's over the years and while they certainly assist with the feeling of laziness, I have yet to experience any leaning effects as these products claim to impart.

[ssbackwards]

the studies are basically shown in those of PPARy antagonist. This nuclear receptor needs to be activated for adipogenesis, as does AKT (and a number of others)

These are shown as you know, in many products. They reduce the chances of increased adipogenesis via inhibition of that pathway. Cellular uptake into the cells is one thing, but when the cell matures and splits is a totally different one.

Heres a little something to read on PPARy agonists vs antagonists if you would like to know more.

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/1172...foBZ9yLAQ0QA.4

Remember PPARy inhibition can increase adiponectin which is necessary for insulin sensitivity. It aids in fat loss and UCP1 (i believe)/ energy disspation as stated in the above link

[Whacked]

Sup SS.

That study did provide an argument in support of preferential shuttling of glucose into muscle cells vs fat cells.

PS: In the mean while - what PPARy inhibitors/antagonists are even available?

[ssbackwards]

antagonists: Berberine, Fucoxanthin

Partial agonists: Salacia Reticulata

off hand that is what i can remember strictly antagonizing the PPARy, There are definetly more, some tannins i believe from the banaba leaf.

Possibly african mango and specific extracts of bitter melon.


They are in numerous products. most GDAs will have one or another. Non stim fat burners SHOULD have one or another (or something that works similarly to supress adipogenesis but not by the PPARy pathway)

This is why GDAs work with or without carbs. It still activated or attenuates specific receptors.

[Whacked]

Good stuff. Thanks SS

Back OT though as I am still looking for validation that these GDA's supposedly get shuttled into muscle vs fat (in a non-trained state)

[AutoKal47]

ss your posts are always hella interesting!

[MAxximal]

Berberine is Superior to Metformin

http://www.life-enhancement.com/arti...te.asp?id=2439

[ssbackwards]

The only thing I can think of isa PPARa agonist mixed with narangin. Narangin blocks glucose into adipose cell causing freed fatty acids and insulin resistance in adipose cells but not muscle cellsIts similar to a state called diabulimia (seen only in type one diabetics) except in nondiabetics muscle and liver still uptake. How safe it is long term, I'm not 100% sure

[Whacked]

Now that would be HUGE if proven real world

[ssbackwards]

I'd have to do the research. They did do it in vitro I believe on the 3T3-L1 cell line

[Royd The Noyd]

The only thing I can think of isa PPARa agonist mixed with narangin. Narangin blocks glucose into adipose cell causing freed fatty acids and insulin resistance in adipose cells but not muscle cellsIts similar to a state called diabulimia (seen only in type one diabetics) except in nondiabetics muscle and liver still uptake. How safe it is long term, I'm not 100% sure

Check out cyclodextrin naringenin and the Harvard research done on it in humans.

[Whacked]

Very cool. Here it is.....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21494673

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0523101919.htm

Someone needs to start selling this stuff

I'd have to do the research. They did do it in vitro I believe on the 3T3-L1 cell line

Check out cyclodextrin naringenin and the Harvard research done on it in humans.