Glucose Disposal Agents - Q&A with Dr. Dana Houser

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Great thread!

    So what is your recommended dose of R-ala or Na-rala in terms of a lower carb meal for ex. 50g or less, and a larger carb meal of say 100-200g?
    I would love to hear your thoughts on this. As well as your preference between ALA, R-ALA, and NA-RALA


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds

    I would love to hear your thoughts on this. As well as your preference between ALA, R-ALA, and NA-RALA
    Me too, I've been doing a lot of reading on the topic and it seems to have some solid science backing its effects on glucose.
    Always willing to learn :D
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  3. Na-R-Ala is the effective isomer and it is highly soluble so I'm sure he's going to pick Na-R-Ala .

  4. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Na-R-Ala is the effective isomer and it is highly soluble so I'm sure he's going to pick Na-R-Ala .
    WE SHALL SEE!!!
    Always willing to learn :D

  5. What do you think about recompadrol?

    I eat very low carb and when I eat a meal with 10-20g carbs I usually have 1 cap of recompadrol prior.

    I saw your post about refeeds and stopped taking it when i have my refeeds now
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by RawStrength View Post
    What do you think about recompadrol?

    I eat very low carb and when I eat a meal with 10-20g carbs I usually have 1 cap of recompadrol prior.

    I saw your post about refeeds and stopped taking it when i have my refeeds now
    this comes to an individuality.

    VS in rats is shown to increase leptin sensitivy when leptin is injected into them.

    your able to kind of offset some of the fat gain via ACL inhibiton and PPARy down regulation along with increased glycogenolysis.

    the insulin increase will still occur you just may need more to get the same responce which is fine if doing a refeed. general refeeds for a 180-185 lb individual (as per dan duchaines kg x 16) is about 1250-1440 carbs in the 2 days. Im sorry but im not doing that wityout a saftey net. Dan duchaine also advocates things like VS for refeeds as well as phenformin OR metformin (which berberine works very similar to show in human studies at 1500mg per day i believe)

    also if your having a **** meal and not a real refeed you want to down regulate gene expression associated with fat gain.

  7. Whoa! This is another thread that has gotten a lot of response; but unfortunately it will take me some time to wade through all the posts to give any kind of educated responses. I will likely have some time to offer much more with the holiday weekend.



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  8. bump
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  9. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...201000534/full

    ALA on a cheat meal or refeed , after reading this i dont think so!!!!

    dont want to inhibit secrection unless leptin resistant in which case its a golden supplement.

    this also says it doesnt activate the insulin pathway...

    i need full article.

    Keywords:

    • Lipoic acid;
    • Leptin;
    • Obesity;
    • PI3K;
    • Sp1 transcription factor

    Abstract

    Scope: Lipoic acid (LA) is an antioxidant with therapeutic potential on several diseases such as diabetes and obesity. Hyperleptinemia and oxidative stress play a major role in the development of obesity-linked diseases. The aim of this study was to examine in vivo and in vitro the effects of LA on leptin production, as well as to elucidate the mechanisms and signalling pathways involved in LA actions.

    Methods and results: Dietary supplementation with LA decreased both circulating leptin, and adipose tissue leptin mRNA in rats. Treatment of 3T3-L1 adipocytes with LA caused a concentration-dependent inhibition of leptin secretion and gene expression. Moreover, LA stimulated the anaerobic utilization of glucose to lactate, which negatively correlated with leptin secretion. Furthermore, LA enhanced phosphorylation of Sp1 and inhibited Sp1 transcriptional activity in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. Moreover, LA inhibited Akt phosphorylation, a downstream target of phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase (PI3K). Treatment with the PI3K inhibitor LY294002 mimicked LA actions, dramatically inhibiting both leptin secretion and gene expression and stimulating Sp1 phosphorylation.

    Conclusion: All of these data suggest that the phosphorylation of Sp1 and the accompanying reduced DNA-binding activity are likely to be involved in the inhibition of leptin induced by LA, which could be mediated in part by the abrogation of the PI3K/Akt pathway.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...201000534/full

    ALA on a cheat meal or refeed , after reading this i dont think so!!!!

    dont want to inhibit secrection unless leptin resistant in which case its a golden supplement.

    this also says it doesnt activate the insulin pathway...

    i need full article.

    Keywords:

    • Lipoic acid;
    • Leptin;
    • Obesity;
    • PI3K;
    • Sp1 transcription factor
    Abstract

    Scope: Lipoic acid (LA) is an antioxidant with therapeutic potential on several diseases such as diabetes and obesity. Hyperleptinemia and oxidative stress play a major role in the development of obesity-linked diseases. The aim of this study was to examine in vivo and in vitro the effects of LA on leptin production, as well as to elucidate the mechanisms and signalling pathways involved in LA actions.

    Methods and results: Dietary supplementation with LA decreased both circulating leptin, and adipose tissue leptin mRNA in rats. Treatment of 3T3-L1 adipocytes with LA caused a concentration-dependent inhibition of leptin secretion and gene expression. Moreover, LA stimulated the anaerobic utilization of glucose to lactate, which negatively correlated with leptin secretion. Furthermore, LA enhanced phosphorylation of Sp1 and inhibited Sp1 transcriptional activity in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. Moreover, LA inhibited Akt phosphorylation, a downstream target of phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase (PI3K). Treatment with the PI3K inhibitor LY294002 mimicked LA actions, dramatically inhibiting both leptin secretion and gene expression and stimulating Sp1 phosphorylation.

    Conclusion: All of these data suggest that the phosphorylation of Sp1 and the accompanying reduced DNA-binding activity are likely to be involved in the inhibition of leptin induced by LA, which could be mediated in part by the abrogation of the PI3K/Akt pathway.
    Wow.. that's some news.

    I haven't been using GDAs on refeed day since this 3d, but at this point
    wouldn't be better not to use ALA AT ALL when dieting to avoid further drop of leptin?
    ..:: ENHANCED BODY FORMULATIONS ::..
    Recompadrol & AAV2 - PM me with any questions


  11. Dang this is horrible. Any idea how relevant/significant this study was? I mean there is so much more saying that ALA is a wonder supplement. I dont know if I'd toss it out because of this one study.
    RecoverBro ELITE

  12. Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Dang this is horrible. Any idea how relevant/significant this study was? I mean there is so much more saying that ALA is a wonder supplement. I dont know if I'd toss it out because of this one study.
    cant really know aside from the full study to review it all.

    AK- wouldnt matter while dieting, it would just make it less time to do a refeed

    for example every 5 instead of 7 or something like that i would assume.

    i only use it on refeed. and a lot of it. i saw no difference... however....... i havent taken it in almost 2 weeks. and im leaner now then i was. at prolly same caloric intake.

  13. Sometimes I'm under the impression that we simply know very lil about what really happens inside our bodies,
    every other day there is a study coming out stating completely the opposite of the one before, and different from
    the one that will come.

    Bah, I'll start to really cut *a lot* of stuff that I use to take, stick to the basics,
    few good product that I know they work on me, good prewo and that's it.
    Diet and kick ass training will do the rest
    ..:: ENHANCED BODY FORMULATIONS ::..
    Recompadrol & AAV2 - PM me with any questions


  14. Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47
    Sometimes I'm under the impression that we simply know very lil about what really happens inside our bodies,
    every other day there is a study coming out stating completely the opposite of the one before, and different from
    the one that will come.

    Bah, I'll start to really cut *a lot* of stuff that I use to take, stick to the basics,
    few good product that I know they work on me, good prewo and that's it.
    Diet and kick ass training will do the rest
    Haha. Yup.
    RecoverBro ELITE

  15. ALA is amazing, i wont cut it out. i simply just dose higher.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards
    ALA is amazing, i wont cut it out. i simply just dose higher.
    I dose ala pretty high as well. But mainly for overall health. Not just for gda
    RecoverBro ELITE

  17. Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    I dose ala pretty high as well. But mainly for overall health. Not just for gda
    i gotta kilo of powder coming to my house this week!

    and 1000 00 caps. gunna cap by hand and some other goodies. goat rue 3% gymnemma HCA yellowgold banaba (all mixed together)

  18. Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards

    i gotta kilo of powder coming to my house this week!

    and 1000 00 caps. gunna cap by hand and some other goodies. goat rue 3% gymnemma HCA yellowgold banaba (all mixed together)
    Omfg. That's one hell of a nutrient partitioner. Yg is great!!
    RecoverBro ELITE

  19. I am not sure if this was asked/answered yet but someone who has taken GDAs can chime in...I am going to start my first GDA got glyocobol on sale so that is going to be my first go. Do you have to cycle off GDAs or is it a supplement you can consider a staple?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    I am not sure if this was asked/answered yet but someone who has taken GDAs can chime in...I am going to start my first GDA got glyocobol on sale so that is going to be my first go. Do you have to cycle off GDAs or is it a supplement you can consider a staple?
    I do cycle Glycobol, I don't cycle Recompadrol, I still have to open the bottle of Slin Sane
    ..:: ENHANCED BODY FORMULATIONS ::..
    Recompadrol & AAV2 - PM me with any questions


  21. Things with the organic salts of vanadium SHOULD BE CYCLED. Studies show BA and uptake is greater into vanadium sensitive tissue like lkidneys and boneVS has poor bioavailability and is excreted readily so I feel ot to be supperior and no need to cycle off VS supplementsAlso 30mg BMOV is equivalent to 50mg VSYou don't see gastro sides of either till you hit about 125-150mg VS and 90-120mg bmovHowever that dose will vary among person. Some people get gastro sides at 100mg vs or 60mg bmovHope this helps a little

  22. Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    i gotta kilo of powder coming to my house this week!

    and 1000 00 caps. gunna cap by hand and some other goodies. goat rue 3% gymnemma HCA yellowgold banaba (all mixed together)
    ohhhh GOD Santa`s waiting for me!!!!!!!

  23. What about using a GDA while bulking? Seems the mentioned of it in this thread is referred to cutting?

  24. I love GDA's for bulking, always allows me to get in great amounts of cals, utilize what Im putting in better AND seems to minimize fat gain.
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  25. Yeah Im courious on these GDAs as well.
    I have been an advid user of glycobol.
    Tried slin-sane it was ok. I felt it worked decently.
    I have been looking at recompadrol as of lately, havent gotten around to researching all the ingredients and I have been thinking about giving the glycobol a break and try the recompadrol which I will probably do, but I want some feedback from people that knows those ingredients inside out or have used both products.
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
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  26. What dose on the Cinnamon 4:1?

    Specifically how should one dose GDA's (Na-Rala, Recompadrol) in reference to dieting? With or without carb meals? Before or after workout?

  27. I have been using leangains for quite a while now and have achieved a lot. I've recently incorporated carb back loading into my eating formula. Here is a sample of my eating schedule for a typical week.

    M-F = Workout Days

    break fast at noon = 800 calories, less than 50g carbs, 125-150g protein, XXg fat

    Pre workout (sometimes) = 120 calories, 24g protein from scoop of whey

    Post workout = 1680 calories, more than 200g carbs, 75-100g protein, XXg fat. Depending on what time it is, how tired I am, blah blah blah, I may split this into a typical post workout shake and another meal afterwards or I may just eat it all in one sitting.

    2600 calorie daily avg

    Sat-Sun = Non workout days

    2000 calorie daily avg with around 30-100g carbs max

    I have Recompadrol and Slin Sane and have been using them for my post workout meal, but after skimming through this thread it seems that is a bad idea. I'm looking for some help figuring out how to use them more efficiently given my schedule or even some redirection as far as my schedule goes. Thanks and if there is just a certain post in this thread I should reread to get my answer feel free to point me in that direction and I'll stfu lol.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by houstontexas View Post
    I have been using leangains for quite a while now and have achieved a lot. I've recently incorporated carb back loading into my eating formula. Here is a sample of my eating schedule for a typical week.

    M-F = Workout Days

    break fast at noon = 800 calories, less than 50g carbs, 125-150g protein, XXg fat

    Pre workout (sometimes) = 120 calories, 24g protein from scoop of whey

    Post workout = 1680 calories, more than 200g carbs, 75-100g protein, XXg fat. Depending on what time it is, how tired I am, blah blah blah, I may split this into a typical post workout shake and another meal afterwards or I may just eat it all in one sitting.

    2600 calorie daily avg

    Sat-Sun = Non workout days

    2000 calorie daily avg with around 30-100g carbs max

    I have Recompadrol and Slin Sane and have been using them for my post workout meal, but after skimming through this thread it seems that is a bad idea. I'm looking for some help figuring out how to use them more efficiently given my schedule or even some redirection as far as my schedule goes. Thanks and if there is just a certain post in this thread I should reread to get my answer feel free to point me in that direction and I'll stfu lol.
    Thanks for posting this but whats with the X for fat? How much fat are with these meals?

  29. Devil's advocate time:

    Where is the proof that any or all of these GDA's in any form force the carbs into the muscle cells verses the adipocytes/fat cells? Enhanced insulin sensitivity/glucose tolerance is one thing, enhanced muscle cell sensitivity is entirely different.

    If the subject worked out/trained, cool, the muscle cell receptors are extra sensitive already (while the fat cells are desesitized/resistant) and I subscribe the theory that the glucose will preferentially be directed towards these muscle cells (as opposed to fat cells)....but this occurs with or w/o GDAs.

    However, when in a non-trained state, no matter the pathways/MOA utilized here (be it increased insulin sensitivity or enhanced insulin release), I guess I have yet to see anything that supports the use of these GDA's. I have an open mind and would like to accept the science, if one can prove it to me.

    What drives me nuts is when people attempt to substantiate the proof by making statements like "When I'm taking GDA's with carbs, I dont feel as lethargic post-prandially". Again, where is the proof that these GDA's are directing the carbs towards muscles instead of fat cells? Removing the carbs from the blood quicker, even when it enters the fat cells instead, will cause a decreased perception of malaise post-carb intake for the carb-sensitive crowd. So will a small dose of caffeine

    ***Look, I do not dispute the ability of these agents to clear the blood of glucose in an more expeditious fashion. I just want to see more studies validating the claims that these GDA's are actually useful in mitigating lipogensis to any appreciable degree by allegedly forcing the activity/changing the processes by which insulin PREFERS to shuttle the carbs towards muscle cells preferentially. I've tried a plethora of these GDA's over the years and while they certainly assist with the feeling of laziness, I have yet to experience any leaning effects as these products claim to impart.
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  30. the studies are basically shown in those of PPARy antagonist. This nuclear receptor needs to be activated for adipogenesis, as does AKT (and a number of others)

    These are shown as you know, in many products. They reduce the chances of increased adipogenesis via inhibition of that pathway. Cellular uptake into the cells is one thing, but when the cell matures and splits is a totally different one.

    Heres a little something to read on PPARy agonists vs antagonists if you would like to know more.

    http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/1172...foBZ9yLAQ0QA.4

    Remember PPARy inhibition can increase adiponectin which is necessary for insulin sensitivity. It aids in fat loss and UCP1 (i believe)/ energy disspation as stated in the above link
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