Top 10 Supplements
- 02-28-2012, 12:40 PM
The source naturals product looks solid, and I suspect that the sublingual delivery will aid particularly with the b-12, as oral bioavailability isn't the best and instrinsic factor is limiting.
- 02-28-2012, 01:16 PM
02-28-2012, 01:30 PM
Doc, I'm curious what your thoughts are on dosing any of these if you've had blood tests without dosing them that show levels at normal and/or optimal levels.
I mainly ask about selenium, though I'm curious about magnesium, as well. I've had serum tests on both and they're both pretty much where I'd want to see them. However, I know there has always been debate from different doctors on proper ways to measure different things; i.e. is the best test urine, or blood or hair or saliva? And the reason I mention selenium is because I have Hashimoto's and I know adding in certain minerals can provide the opposite of the desired effect.
If my blood work shows:
Magnesium - 1.9mg/dL (ref: 1.8 - 2.5)
Selenium - 151 ug/L (ref: 23-190)
Zinc - 91 ug/dL (ref 60-120)
What are your thoughts (as these levels are only from what I obtain via diet and a multi-vitamin)?
02-28-2012, 01:46 PM
RBC test for zinc and magnesium, not serum.
02-29-2012, 11:03 AM
What are your thoughts on the following study
It seems convention has been not to combine the two. Yet you recommend a combination of the 3. With recent consideration to add the carnitines to my daily regimine, I am curious of your thoughts on the matter.
02-29-2012, 11:16 AM
02-29-2012, 03:52 PM
02-29-2012, 04:36 PM
And this one seems to suggest that the combination of carnitine and choline would be a nice combination for fat loss
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
02-29-2012, 05:36 PM
I do remember Wes Silveria (ironaddict) was a big proponent of Choline/Inositol combo, as they worked synergistically
03-01-2012, 03:24 PM
03-01-2012, 03:44 PM
03-02-2012, 12:18 AM
03-02-2012, 12:56 AM
"B Complex" is Best One
I would like to go with “B Complex” because its organically present is many foods and vegetables. Today several supplements are available in market but very few are good and can complete your needs of vitamins and minerals.
03-04-2012, 12:44 PM
03-04-2012, 01:15 PM
1. fish oil
3. vit C or ascorbyl palmitate
5. Rainbow lite men's multi
6. natural beta carotinoid mix
9. potassium bicarbonate
10. beta alanine, choline, and or ALCAR-fumarate generally in rotation and not all at once.
11. HCG, lol
03-04-2012, 01:49 PM
03-05-2012, 01:21 AM
03-06-2012, 04:32 AM
Dr, really enjoyed reading your posts over the years.
Not sure if this has been addressed so apologies if I have missed it. Im really looking for your optimal dosing of ala , agmatine and l-carnitine through out the day. ( ideally for body composition purposes)
03-06-2012, 01:32 PM
03-10-2012, 12:31 AM
Ginger is a nice natural chemoprotectantOriginally Posted by keyser
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03-11-2012, 06:27 AM
03-13-2012, 09:51 AM
03-18-2012, 01:09 PM
I will try and address all of the questions according to my time commitments, but this thread generated an amazing response (much more than I had ever anticipated)...
The below is an example of an interesting question...
This board is HOPEFULLY full of people who are intensely involved in anaerobic (weight/sprint/etc...) training and I will say +/- aerobic training. Not assumed as the generally sedentary lay-population used in said studies unfortunately.
The rationale is the same reason I hate when people try and apply suggested data on Vitamin E (especially when solely alpha-tocopherol is used as monotherapy).
Anyway; one must consider the amount of free radical generated on a daily basis (each time you go to the gym, each time you put something in your mouth - healthy or otherwise, oxidizing fat en route to a svelte physique you hold dear, and so on...EVERYTHING generates free radicals). Vitamin E works in synergy with the endogenous antioxidant glutathione to quench lipid peroxidation. But to do so, glutathione needs selenium which "holds" lipid radicals so that glutathione can get a crack at them. Selenium is also required for vitamin E to function properly.
NOW - ANYTHING (statin drugs, niacin, etc...) that modifies lipids (cholesterol, et al...) WILL alter glucose metabolism to some degree. Its funny how frequent this is forgotten especially by the authors of silly studies suggesting increased incidence of insulin resistance and/or diabetes development when not using clamp studies, but alas I digress.
Its not much use, however, taking selenium, if you don't have enough glutathione in the first place. Intense exercise (granted, probably 95% of gym-goers, and possibly even a good percentage who read these boards do not really embark on truly "intense" exercsie can deplete muscle glutathione by 40% and liver glutathione (from which the muscles get their refills, like glycogen) by 80%! So, rightfully so - I probably should have suggested some conditions with the dosing of selenium:
1. Barring you are truly doing "INTENSE" exercise (defined in anaerobic training as HOW close you lift to your 1RM, not by speed...there is a speed component in transitioning from aerobic to anaerobic in what is generally thought of as cardio - a shift from a jog to a sprint).
2. Fat oxidation is truly something being incorporated into your physique regimen (both on a microscopic level: if you have not had a NMR analysis by Lipo Science and evaluation of your Lp(a) and Homocysteine scores; you won't really be able to identify this -AND- on a macroscopic level: your outward phenotype).
3. You are somehow regenerating glutathione lost with exercise (which people don't generally put a lot of credence on). What I may have qualified my statement with is use of the generalized antioxidant stack: Selenomethionine + NAC + SAMe (with B Vitamins as co-factors), but there are very few products that would supply this in what I feel people really need.
While selenium supply isn't necessarily a bad one with most people's diets - let's take bodybuilder modifications: low-carb, cyclical macro, hyper- and hypo-caloric, etc... BUT also consider that selenium is NOT as well-defined in soil and farmer's don't turn profit enough to give a damn on replenishment.
But, I do appreciate you keeping me honest here. I more than likely should have said that #10 was collectively: Selenomethionine + NAC + SAMe (or TMG I suppose as "poor man's SAMe") + B vitamins (but Bs were already coming in at #1 for so many different co-factor reasons) and barring exercise intensity was up to par (recall that you will harbor some level of insulin resistance - even non-diabetic with as littel as > 48 hours of inactivity; the studies illustrated are not ideal to apply to most I would hope to campaign for on this board.
On those ingredients left out (i.e. - Fish Oil)...
I just had to label the Top 10 Supplement ingredients that I think could make impact now, so when people suggest fish oil - I have most (if not all of my clients on it), but I had to separate out what I felt could be obtained by the diet and what could not (at least not in all macronutrient shifts).
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
03-18-2012, 02:02 PM
Now, that is IN ADDITION TO foodstuffs as I just don't believe that even in your best efforts could a diet truly supply the appropriate amount of nutrient value (for whatever the reason: nutrients in soil depleted, etc...).
mr.cooper is essentially spot on. I would say about 95% of clients and patients are on some form of fish oil product and if there was a top 15, fish oil would be included EVEN when you can get it from foodstuffs.
I recommend Jarrow B Right as well - to all of my clients due to cost effiency, etc...
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
03-18-2012, 02:07 PM
Swanson just released a new "activated b complex." $17.99 for 60caps.
1 capsule contains:
Thiamin (vitamin B-1) (as benfotiamine) 54.4 mg 3,627% Riboflavin (as riboflavin 5'-phosphate) 50 mg 2,941% Niacin (as inositol hexanicotinate) 100 mg 500% Vitamin B-6(as pyridoxal 5-phosphate) 50 mg 2,500% Folate (as Quatrefolic® [6S]-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic acid equivalent to 1.6 mcg of [6S]-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic acid, glucosamine salt) 800 mcg 200% Vitamin B-12(as methylcobalamin) 500 mcg 8,333% Biotin 50 mcg 17% Choline(as choline dihydrogen citrate) 50 mg * PABA (para-aminobenzoic acid) 50 mg * Pantethine (coenzyme A precursor)(from Pantesin® 80% pantethine) 50 mg * Inositol(from inositol hexanicotinate) 25 mg *
03-18-2012, 02:22 PM
If I were presented at the office with a patient who was truly B12 deficient; I usually prescribe 3-5 days of IM injection followed by chronic methylcobalamin therapy (usually in the form of Metanx so I can guarantee where the person is getting their supplemental source of MB12). The 3-5 days is NOT, however, because it is absorbed any better per se and/or that it would correct the deficiency any better, but it does increase the serum level in the acute setting of a week - and if the patient is symptomatic ONLY would I waste their money on any reason to employ this type of said dosing. Symptoms are usually in the form of paresthesia (numbness and tingling kind of like beta-alanine but they do not go away and in diabetics - it is often mistaken and written off as peripheral neuropathy). One must be very careful, however, that you not overdo Vitamin B6 therapies either as there is a true OPTIMIZATION curve that exists for this vitamin where you get paresthesia with too little and too much of the vitamin.
Some might suggest that in the advent of sublingual epithelial cell testing, both of the former will be left in the dust though.
But again, mineral testing is not generally the best mode of testing deficiencies or adequacies - it is actually through end organ effects (which is done on a CLINICAL assessment, however, good luck to you in finding a physician good at the physical exam any more).
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
03-18-2012, 02:30 PM
03-18-2012, 02:34 PM
1) LCLT - androgen receptor
2) PLC - Cardiovascular
3) ALCAR - Cerebrovascular / Neurovascular
If simply for general health, a combination of the three with focus on all of the studied parameters - a little attenuation of levels is one thing, an omission is another.
Agmatine - depends on goal; what are you using it for?
R-ALA is to Na-R-ALA about a 2:1 ratio, so if you use say 600 mg of R-ALA, then I would say use 300 mg of Na-R-ALA for equivalency. The reason for using this is reflected in my recommendations: If using it for general antioxidant - probably 100-300mg is sufficient. If using it for glycemic variation attenuation - minimally double that number at 300-600 mg (for some very insulin resistant, probably even upwards of 3 times the dose or 900 mg) spread over the larger meals of the day (B/L/D).
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
03-18-2012, 07:37 PM
Noted on the b12 comment. Expect a PM for more info...I am, in fact, a genetically b12-deficient individual and do get treatment (intrinsic factor deficiency).
03-19-2012, 12:19 AM
Thank you for your time Doc.
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