Top 10 Supplements

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    Wonder if creatinol-o-phosphate might make it to the top10 list? Too bad getting the real thing is impossible right now.

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    My preferred dosing...


    10. Selenium

    * 400 mcg of selenomethionine daily for adequate prevention of deficiency with male effects ranging from proper thyroid function to ensuring ideal fertility.


    9. Creatine (MCC or Creatine Orotate preferred)

    * 2.5- 5 grams of combined creatine salts per day for the average 200-lb. bodybuilder and dependent upon activity level alongside body composition.


    8. Curcumin

    * I was not kidding earlier in the thread when I said – as much as you can feasibly afford. If not a low-carb advocate, the expression “sprinkle it on your corn flakes” may be appropriate.


    7. Magnesium (100s of enzymatic processes in the body);


    * This is one which will depend upon the salt used. In other words – magnesium orotate has wonderful bioavailability but the orotic acid molecule is very large limiting the amount of elemental magnesium you get. If using something more common like magnesium oxide, you are talking about 2 oxygen molecules limiting the amount of elemental magensium to a much lighter degree. Magnesium oxide is our standardizing molecule where we would use about 400 mg per day to ensure adequate amounts, whereas magnesium orotate is about double this. Most other magnesium salts fall somewhere between the two.
    Keep in mind this general rule of thumb when shopping for magnesium, the lower the amount of elemental magnesium, the higher the level of bioavailability (there are a few exceptions to this BUT that generally holds true).



    6. L-carnitine (all forms, but LOVE LCLT/PLC/ALCAR combo);


    * Would prefer about 2 grams of each; all forms have a different tissue predilection.


    5. Leucine (NOT all BCAAs; leucine alone is overlooked and the only sole ketogenic BCAA);


    * 25% your total amino acid pool for Maximum Muscle Protein Synthesis; if you need more info (and I mean really need more) – see the BCAA Discussion Thread.


    4. Beta-alanine (has supplanted creatine as the true necessity when it comes to anti-oxidant prowess and ergogenic value...its unmatched);


    * 3.2 grams or some rough estimate that hits the study mark.

    3. CoQ10 (multi-function strikes again - can change type I muscle fibers to type IIs; can protect the heart; act as an antioxidant, etc...);

    * Minimum 200mg-1000mg Ubiquinone / 100-500mg Ubiquinol


    2. Vitamins C and D (Vit C at 500 mg with EVERY meal through the day; even eating is an oxidative process. NO MORE than 500mg so abort pills that contain 1000 mg or whatever...they actually turn PRO-oxidant. Also, Vit C is vital at promoting collagen resynthesis. Vitamin D. What can I say? Actually, what can I not?);

    * Vitamin C – 500mg with every meal except pre- and post-workout meals
    * Vitamin D – 2000-12,000 IU dependent upon multiple factors


    1. B Complex (not flashy and can be taken with Vit C at all meals, but given its multitude of functions and co-factor offering, I wouldn't dream of going without it).

    * Co-factor form preferred, roughly 3-4 evenly-spaced doses throughout the day.


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    Quote Originally Posted by keyser View Post
    Wonder if creatinol-o-phosphate might make it to the top10 list? Too bad getting the real thing is impossible right now.

    Hard to suggest a Top 10 element in its infancy, but certainly some eye-opening data for sure.


    D_
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    I love selenium but I have to disagree with a 400mcg dose:

    Dietary Selenium Intake Modulates Thyroid Hormone and Energy Metabolism in Men (weight gain at high doses)
    Effects of Long-Term Selenium Supplementation on the Incidence of Type 2 Diabetes (methodoligically flawed IMO, but still worth noting)

    Any particular reason for exceeding 200mcg?
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    Very interesting list. I never heard about the COq10/Ubiq changing muscle fiber types. Good info all around. Happy I have been seeing lately what you say about Vit C.
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    Thanks for the info. I've been waiting on the list.
    Are those doses independent of how much you get from food or total?
    Seems like an obvious answer but my assumptions suck.
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    yes...very nicely done Doc. Im thinking about dropping the multi thing and going with the above mentioned in the appropriate amounts. Already take many of these, but going to stop taking the vit c (1g doses).

    I already take the following:
    vit d
    vit c
    selenium
    coq10
    Mg
    Zinc
    beta alanine
    MCC
    LCLT / ALCAR / GPLC
    B-12
    Leucine (5g preworkout ...5g PWO)


    Just been doing research on curcumin and ive gotta find a good place to buy this stuff in bulk. Too many good things from curcumin for someone not to take it.

    again , thanks
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    Thank you Dana... =)...
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    No fish oil in your top 10 doc?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    No fish oil in your top 10 doc?
    I think he's assuming we are eating diets rich in fatty fish.
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    Good then I'm pretty much set for supps besides my preworkouts here and there... BUT I need a good Co-enzyme B complex. REPS for quality suggestions (no reps for duplicates).

    Ubiquininol 200mg/day *may up it to 400mg in the future
    MCC and/or creatine nitrate 3-5g/day
    ZMK (MST) 200mcg selenium + 500mg magnesium
    ALCAR/LCLT/GPLC/PLCAR 6g/day I started to rotate between all these with 1 month breaks after two months on
    Ajipure L-Leucine 10g+/day 6g postworkout w/40g isolate and the rest with a shake during the day. Plan on capping some to take with meals
    Buffered Vit C (now foods) have to cap it myself soon but been using here and there but not near workout.
    Beta-alanine/ COP Gonna rotate between the two. Cycling on and off... 2months on 1 off.
    *need to pick up new B complex Open to suggestions
    Not starting curcumin yet...

    **other staples
    Lovaza (4g) and Neptune Krill Oil (500mg-1g).
    :blindfold:
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash
    Good then I'm pretty much set for supps besides my preworkouts here and there... BUT I need a good Co-enzyme B complex. REPS for quality suggestions (no reps for duplicates).

    Ubiquininol 200mg/day *may up it to 400mg in the future
    MCC and/or creatine nitrate 3-5g/day
    ZMK (MST) 200mcg selenium + 500mg magnesium
    ALCAR/LCLT/GPLC/PLCAR 6g/day I started to rotate between all these with 1 month breaks after two months on
    Ajipure L-Leucine 10g+/day 6g postworkout w/40g isolate and the rest with a shake during the day. Plan on capping some to take with meals
    Buffered Vit C (now foods) have to cap it myself soon but been using here and there but not near workout.
    Beta-alanine/ COP Gonna rotate between the two. Cycling on and off... 2months on 1 off.
    *need to pick up new B complex Open to suggestions
    Not starting curcumin yet...

    **other staples
    Lovaza (4g) and Neptune Krill Oil (500mg-1g).
    Can't go wrong w Now brand. They have one.
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    I'm not sure of the all the rules w outside sources yet. I know NOW is in a board sponsor's inventory but...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkuk View Post
    I'm not sure of the all the rules w outside sources yet. I know NOW is in a board sponsor's inventory but...
    Thanks. gonna have to sift thru the good and bad. I don't like when they use mulitpile versions of a vitamin and don't tell you how much comes from the co-enzyme form....

    the ones I like so far

    Source Naturals, Coenzymate B Complex, Orange Flavored Sublingual, 60 Tablets 3/day for 20 days @ 13$

    Jarrow Formulas, B-Right, 100 Veggie Caps 4/day for 25 days @ 11$
    AOR Advanced b complex (kinda pricey) 3/day for 30days @ 27$


    The source naturals seems legit might have to try that one to start out. Let me know if there's better quality without being crazy $$.
    Last edited by monstermash; 02-28-2012 at 09:17 AM.
    :blindfold:
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    If you are getting a B-Complex, the best on the market is AOR B-Complex. For those who want a cheaper alternative that is still effective, get Jarrow B-Right (I use this one).
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    If you are getting a B-Complex, the best on the market is AOR B-Complex. For those who want a cheaper alternative that is still effective, get Jarrow B-Right (I use this one).
    Hey cooper, check out the source naturals one I posted... seems like a happy medium b/w AOR and Jarrow. What do you think about the sublingual delivery?
    :blindfold:
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post

    Jarrow Formulas, B-Right, 100 Veggie Caps 4/day for 25 days @ 11$
    just found this for 8.50. Im stoked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I love selenium but I have to disagree with a 400mcg dose:

    Dietary Selenium Intake Modulates Thyroid Hormone and Energy Metabolism in Men (weight gain at high doses)
    Effects of Long-Term Selenium Supplementation on the Incidence of Type 2 Diabetes (methodoligically flawed IMO, but still worth noting)

    Any particular reason for exceeding 200mcg?
    Bump for response, I was curious on the first link especially.
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    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    just found this for 8.50. Im stoked.
    What's it w/ shipping? the place for 11 was free shipping over 20$.
    :blindfold:
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    $5 flat rate shipping, but i intend on buying the following from there also (very reputable company...think v)

    vitamin c (500mg)
    Zinc
    magnesiuim
    cinnamon
    selenium
    maybe some cucurmin.

    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    What's it w/ shipping? the place for 11 was free shipping over 20$.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    Hey cooper, check out the source naturals one I posted... seems like a happy medium b/w AOR and Jarrow. What do you think about the sublingual delivery?
    Wow I had the thread open for a while before posting so I never realized that you basically posted the exact same thing before me .

    The source naturals product looks solid, and I suspect that the sublingual delivery will aid particularly with the b-12, as oral bioavailability isn't the best and instrinsic factor is limiting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Wow I had the thread open for a while before posting so I never realized that you basically posted the exact same thing before me .

    The source naturals product looks solid, and I suspect that the sublingual delivery will aid particularly with the b-12, as oral bioavailability isn't the best and instrinsic factor is limiting.
    Sweet, replacing my old one (thorne research basic b) with this. Better profile and price point.
    :blindfold:
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    Doc, I'm curious what your thoughts are on dosing any of these if you've had blood tests without dosing them that show levels at normal and/or optimal levels.

    I mainly ask about selenium, though I'm curious about magnesium, as well. I've had serum tests on both and they're both pretty much where I'd want to see them. However, I know there has always been debate from different doctors on proper ways to measure different things; i.e. is the best test urine, or blood or hair or saliva? And the reason I mention selenium is because I have Hashimoto's and I know adding in certain minerals can provide the opposite of the desired effect.

    If my blood work shows:

    Magnesium - 1.9mg/dL (ref: 1.8 - 2.5)
    Selenium - 151 ug/L (ref: 23-190)
    Zinc - 91 ug/dL (ref 60-120)

    What are your thoughts (as these levels are only from what I obtain via diet and a multi-vitamin)?
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    RBC test for zinc and magnesium, not serum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    6. L-carnitine (all forms, but LOVE LCLT/PLC/ALCAR combo);


    * Would prefer about 2 grams of each; all forms have a different tissue predilection.
    Dr. Houser,

    What are your thoughts on the following study

    PubMed Abstract
    Full Text

    It seems convention has been not to combine the two. Yet you recommend a combination of the 3. With recent consideration to add the carnitines to my daily regimine, I am curious of your thoughts on the matter.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Dr. Houser,

    What are your thoughts on the following study

    PubMed Abstract
    Full Text

    It seems convention has been not to combine the two. Yet you recommend a combination of the 3. With recent consideration to add the carnitines to my daily regimine, I am curious of your thoughts on the matter.
    def in for response on this.
    :blindfold:
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    Also, if you could I would be interested in your thoughts on supplementing with Choline in conjunction with Carnitine supplements. For reference:

    Abstract
    Full Text (Warning: PDF)
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Dr. Houser,

    What are your thoughts on the following study

    PubMed Abstract
    Full Text

    It seems convention has been not to combine the two. Yet you recommend a combination of the 3. With recent consideration to add the carnitines to my daily regimine, I am curious of your thoughts on the matter.
    I just posted that a couple days ago in another thread.. Thanks for the full paper

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Also, if you could I would be interested in your thoughts on supplementing with Choline in conjunction with Carnitine supplements. For reference:

    Abstract
    Full Text (Warning: PDF)
    And another one - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/7616311/

    And this one seems to suggest that the combination of carnitine and choline would be a nice combination for fat loss

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12514272/
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    I do remember Wes Silveria (ironaddict) was a big proponent of Choline/Inositol combo, as they worked synergistically
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    I take ginger and R-ALA every day. Are they far from making to the top10 list?
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    Sub'd for answers to HereToStudy's posts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyser View Post
    I take ginger and R-ALA every day. Are they far from making to the top10 list?
    Make it Na-R-ALA and it's on my top 10 list.
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    Thumbs up "B Complex" is Best One


    I would like to go with “B Complex” because its organically present is many foods and vegetables. Today several supplements are available in market but very few are good and can complete your needs of vitamins and minerals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    Welcome to AM!

    Just to give you a heads up, you can't post site names other than sponsors here. You can talk about non-sponsored items/products just don't mention the name of where you bought them in a post.
    ok my bad thanks man
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    1. fish oil
    2. ubiquinol
    3. vit C or ascorbyl palmitate
    4. resveratrol
    5. Rainbow lite men's multi
    6. natural beta carotinoid mix
    7. zinc
    8. magnesium
    9. potassium bicarbonate
    10. beta alanine, choline, and or ALCAR-fumarate generally in rotation and not all at once.

    11. HCG, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    1. fish oil
    2. ubiquinol
    3. vit C or ascorbyl palmitate
    4. resveratrol
    5. Rainbow lite men's multi
    6. natural beta carotinoid mix
    7. zinc
    8. magnesium
    9. potassium bicarbonate
    10. beta alanine, choline, and or ALCAR-fumarate generally in rotation and not all at once.

    11. HCG, lol
    Any specific reason for not using Beta Alanine and ALCAR at the same time? Just curious because I am currently supplementing with both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator View Post
    Any specific reason for not using Beta Alanine and ALCAR at the same time? Just curious because I am currently supplementing with both.
    There is no reason. In fact, I encourage combining alcar with choline. Beta-alanine is a staple regardless.
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    Dr, really enjoyed reading your posts over the years.

    Not sure if this has been addressed so apologies if I have missed it. Im really looking for your optimal dosing of ala , agmatine and l-carnitine through out the day. ( ideally for body composition purposes)

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigmatthew View Post
    Dr, really enjoyed reading your posts over the years.

    Not sure if this has been addressed so apologies if I have missed it. Im really looking for your optimal dosing of ala , agmatine and l-carnitine through out the day. ( ideally for body composition purposes)

    Thanks
    300-600mg of R-ALA (hopefully salt stabilized).
    750mg-1g agmatine.
    2g of carnitine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyser
    I take ginger and R-ALA every day. Are they far from making to the top10 list?
    Ginger is a nice natural chemoprotectant
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