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    Quote Originally Posted by BurghHardcore View Post
    Is it a good idea to take Astaxanthin and Beta-Carotene together? I was thinking of purcashing the two supplements below. What do you think? Also, you say you can take water soluble vitamins C and B with meals throughout the day, what is the best way and time to take fat soluble vitamins A, D, and E? Spread out from one another with meals? All at one at breakfast?

    Astaxanthin Supplement Facts

    Serving Size: 1 softgel
    Servings per Container: 60
    Calories 5
    Calories from Fat 4
    Total Fat .05g 1%
    Vitamin A (100% as Natural Beta-Carotene) 105 IU 2%
    Vitamin E (as Natural d-alpha Tocopherol) 50 IU 167%
    BioAstin Natural Astaxanthin (from Haematococcus pluvialis Extract) 4mg **
    Lutein 40 mcg **


    and

    Natural Beta Carotene Supplement Facts

    Serving Size: 1 Softgel
    Servings per Container: 180
    Beta-Carotene (as pro-Vitamin A 15mg) 25,000 IU 500%
    Vitamin E (from Mixed Tocopherols) 5 IU 17%
    Lecithin (61% Phosphatides) 10mg **
    Sure, mixed carotenoids is probably the best way to go and one would suggest a balance to be established with all of them.

    The first product looks better and the second one (not bad, just unnecessary).

    As for fat-soluble vitamins...Vitamin D depends on how much you take, if you're taking D2 or D3 (I presume most on this board take D3), or if you have any absorption issues. We can't always control absorption issues...but safely 2,000-5,000IU can be taken by everyone daily of Vitamin D3...once during the day is fine as they accumulate in the liver and various other fatty areas.

    Vitamin A, you'd be taking care of with your mixed carotenoid supplement. Vitamin A (retinol) itself does NOT need to be taken supplementally and could prove toxic really easy; beta-carotene (two retinol molecules put together)...is only called to action when needed. Use beta-carotene before considering a retinol supplement.

    Vitamin E....I think people on this board have done well in taking all 8 isomers (A product like someone mentioned above in Primordial Performance's Toco-8 and there are some products from Jarrow and/or AOR that are decent isomer variants of the vitamin - again, once daily is plenty.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    As far as the CLA goes, are you saying I shouldn't give up on it just yet?. Also I didn't know it was an Omega 6 fatty acid. I probably could have figured that out via google though so guess I'm just lazy with some things...Anyway I have another question for you now regarding this. I have read numerous times that people get more than enough omega 6 fatty acids from diet. Plus if you supplement with excess omega 6 fatty acids this will throw off balance between omega 3's and omega 6's causing you to become deficient in omega 3s. So now I'm even more concerned about my CLA usage..... On the Astaxanthin dosage I really have no idea on the dosage. I read about it online here. I can tell a difference in endurance since I started taking it, but not sure how large of a dose is actually needed to maintain that. Bio Mend is an antioxident supplement.
    As for CLA...fear not, my friend...you must realize that Linoleic (alongside linolenic) acid are ESSENTIAL (in other words, you gotta take them daily). If you're supplementing with 2-4 grams of combined EPA + DHA, you should not push your 3:6 ratio off much, if at all. There are plenty of positives for this fatty acid and I think if you stop it, you'll probably have the easiest time identifying what it did while you were on it...but yeah, I agree it isn't a caffeine or anything that you could feel any different with in any quick time frame unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    Dr. Houser,
    What dose do you recommend for curcumin?
    Can I say as much as you can take...spice, root, powder, pill. I am well aware of the absorption issues with it and unfortunately, I don't think anyone can answer this with 100% certainty....but I think it should be used as frequently as money can afford it and in as much a tally.


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    My top supplements.

    Beef
    Chicken
    Greens
    Eggs
    Almost any non farm raised fish
    Beef
    Any greens
    Beef
    Sugar
    Non farm raised fish

    If most people spent the money they spent on supps on organic foods, locally grown foods, hormone free meats, etc... They would be healthier And wealthier.

    Oh and again, this is my list. I MAY have an occasional protein shake if I'm pressed for time but that's about as much as I supplement.

    Just me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    On top of this what about the dosage for vitamin B (and all the "-#" like b-12 etc.) I have heard that vitamin B is grossly overdosed. Or is it that the RDA levels are grossly underdosed? I know that there is research stating that vitamin B6 over dosing can down regulate androgen receptors... A nice dosing procedure for your top 10 would be excellent
    There's a product called "B-Right" from Jarrow Formulations with lower dose B vitamins in their cofactor form. I recommend 1-2 caps with EVERY meal. That's right...I said every meal if you can afford it. Vitamin B actually has research supporting it's use (agree with B6 being an issue, but its easier to worry about peripheral neuropathy than it is testosterone deficiency with it) in MUCH higher doses than recommended.

    I have got to break for the night in a minute, BUT will offer what I USE in dosing of the top 10 tomorrow at some point. You can extrapolate what you will from that.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnlikelyToad View Post
    How much Selenium daily Doc? I find that if I supplement at night it gives me anxiety and keeps me up. Quite a few products I've used in the past that contain Selenium has done this... ZMK, Hgh-Up etc.
    Hey Jordan!

    Selenium (as I just posted) at 200-400mcg/day...not too high as it has a narrow therapeutic index (side effects are very real if going too high). I am unsure what is in the product Hgh-Up (but I did believe that to be a nighttime formula, so interesting), but I do know that ZMK is a "krebs cycle product" which some of those salts could easily account for the anxiety you feel and keeping you up at night. Let me review what is in Hgh-Up and get back to you to see if I see any pattern in ingredient/form, etc...

    I don't know if everyone on the board wants kids, but - if that's the case selenium is VERY important in this regard (some may do well without procreating and they can turn a blind eye to my writing on this). I am happy everyone is taking heed to the notion that it is VERY important.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dunhill225 View Post
    My top supplements.

    Beef
    Chicken
    Greens
    Eggs
    Almost any non farm raised fish
    Beef
    Any greens
    Beef
    Sugar
    Non farm raised fish

    If most people spent the money they spent on supps on organic foods, locally grown foods, hormone free meats, etc... They would be healthier And wealthier.

    Oh and again, this is my list. I MAY have an occasional protein shake if I'm pressed for time but that's about as much as I supplement.

    Just me.
    Well said and point well taken actually.

    Most bodybuilder's diets are, however, usually deficient in something and certain things do have an ergogenic effect above a certain dose.

    D_
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Can I say as much as you can take...spice, root, powder, pill. I am well aware of the absorption issues with it and unfortunately, I don't think anyone can answer this with 100% certainty....but I think it should be used as frequently as money can afford it and in as much a tally.
    Wow. Well I guess I'll be picking up a bunch of turmeric then... thanks!
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    So complicated, lol

    Ill stick to my Orange Triad, Fish Oil, Garlic Oil, E3 Live (Klamath Lake Frozen Liquid Blue Green Algae), extra Vitamin C and D.

    Orange Triad Link
    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/c...-270-tabs.html
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    [QUOTE=dinoiii;3044865]Nice List; I have very few gripes with it. I would suggest a switch to leucine and possibly dumping the taurine (simply to save money if you feel it's done nothing for you; I can't say I have ever gotten much from it either).

    The only thing i notice from taurine it is a slight reduction in back pumps when doing deadlifts. But Ill be changing some things around in my list after reading your posts on some things in here. I read over in the bcaa thread. So you believe leucine outside of bcaa has just as much benifit? Bc your thread turned into a study war lol
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    [QUOTE=SweetLou321;3045060]
    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Nice List; I have very few gripes with it. I would suggest a switch to leucine and possibly dumping the taurine (simply to save money if you feel it's done nothing for you; I can't say I have ever gotten much from it either).

    The only thing i notice from taurine it is a slight reduction in back pumps when doing deadlifts. But Ill be changing some things around in my list after reading your posts on some things in here. I read over in the bcaa thread. So you believe leucine outside of bcaa has just as much benifit? Bc your thread turned into a study war lol
    How come you get back pumps after deadlifts? Or maybe I should ask, where in your back do you get them?
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    Its like a pump in the lumbar region that can be cripling. Similar to those ppl feel when on certain AAS. I havent had the issue in ages, so ill prob drop the taurine.
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    Guess I will continue with the CLA than. It is pretty cheap so no problem continuing use.
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    Sub'd for more info and looking forward to hearing more doses used on these products/ingredients (minimum/maximum and optimal, along with timing).
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    8. Curcumin (anti-inflammatory/pro-testosterone, can be found in every guy's cupboard I hope...understand bioavailability is poor, so take more of it!!!!); How much ? Are we talking 1g p/d?

    6. L-carnitine (all forms, but LOVE LCLT/PLC/ALCAR combo); I agree, I'll be honest the original form started leaning me out! I plan on taking 5g p/d.

    5. Leucine (NOT all BCAAs; leucine alone is overlooked and the only sole ketogenic BCAA); Any info on timing?

    3. CoQ10 (multi-function strikes again - can change type I muscle fibers to type IIs; can protect the heart; act as an antioxidant, etc...); This actual form, or the other form? How much should we take?

    Thanks
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    Doc,

    Where is augmatine in this list? MAN promotes it as the "Holy Grail" of bodybuilding supplements. I also know you have researched it extensively. I have tried it and I can't say it did much for me but I only used one bottle. It may need to be used for a longer period to exert it's overall effects. Moreover, it doesn't get a lot of love on the bodybuilding forums.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    8. Curcumin (anti-inflammatory/pro-testosterone, can be found in every guy's cupboard I hope...understand bioavailability is poor, so take more of it!!!!); How much ? Are we talking 1g p/d?

    6. L-carnitine (all forms, but LOVE LCLT/PLC/ALCAR combo); I agree, I'll be honest the original form started leaning me out! I plan on taking 5g p/d.

    5. Leucine (NOT all BCAAs; leucine alone is overlooked and the only sole ketogenic BCAA); Any info on timing?

    3. CoQ10 (multi-function strikes again - can change type I muscle fibers to type IIs; can protect the heart; act as an antioxidant, etc...); This actual form, or the other form? How much should we take?

    Thanks
    At least for the curcumin, dinoiii said as much as you can get should be your goal.
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    OK my 10 would be

    Vitamin C
    Resveratrol
    Fish oil
    B-Vits
    Lecithin
    Aniracetam
    Creatine
    Milk thistle
    Beta-alanine
    N-acetyl-cystiene
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    Dana,
    Should someone that is in a exclusively explosive sport avoid q10? Lets say a long drive golfer.. would it slow down his muscle fibers?
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    doc,
    wondering why so much b complex is suggested, as a former trainee under u i had to cut mine back to once or twice a day do to insomnia, and it hurting like hell to pee after a few days of taking b complex with every meal!

    probably dont remember this but it was way too much fro me to take a b complex with every meal, kind of over use if u ask me?

    also DAA gave me the WORST heartburn i have ever had in my life! had to drop it fast! why i ask?

    also HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE/???:

    3. CoQ10 (multi-function strikes again - can change type I muscle fibers to type IIs; can protect the heart; act as an antioxidant, etc...);

    i was under the sumption that once your born with a muscle make up, that one COULD NOT CHANGE THEIR MUSCLE FIBER TYPES, but could learn to train them instead, i was not aware that ones genetics could change by a single supplement, at all!

    IF THIS IS IN FACT A TRUTH, THEN THE FDA WILL HAVE A FIELD DAY WITH THIS, AND ALSO WE HAVE FOUND THE "MAGIC PILL!!!"

    please do explain in laymans terms and non of that doctor type lingos, because i might throw in the flag on this one!
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    11 dianabol - yes, there IS an 11th supplement!
    10 resveratrol and quercetin - resv = bulk powder. too many reasons to use it. querc = - too many reasons to use it, helps stuff like resveratrol work, cheap.
    9 lclt/alcar combo - bulk powders. too many reasons to use these
    8 green foods powder - chlorella, spirulina, veggies, mixed into a shake, usually post workout or pre-bed.
    using NOW green phytofoods atm...
    7 coq10, ala, sam-e/tmg, cinnamon, ginger, garlic, olive oil - tie!
    6 multimineral - using a NOW product, actually 1/2 daily dose, with 1/2 tab crushed and added to intra drink on wo days too. generating less than 1/4 the selenium recommended by d_. need to get a selenium supp in the mail asap!
    5 omega 3s - keep them in the fridge!
    4 coconut oil - outside and inside, good for you, helps absorption of phs and fat soluble stuffs, full of mct's (lauric acid, anyone?), antimicrobial, use on skin too mixed with other essential oils, cedar being one of my favorites.
    3 vitamins d and c - d = take 10,000iu/day through the winter, none in the summer with 2hours shirtless sun between 10 and 2:00/week, c = buffered with calcium and magnesium, not pre-workout.
    2 turmeric/curcumin - bulk powder, dump a few grams turmeric in natty choco whey shakes, add olive/coconut oil - tastes great!
    1 astaxanthin - 1 gram 1% bulk powder daily - after a couple weeks of this with curcumin, i was able to bench again after many years of heavy shoulder pain. now, 80-90% less pain doing these movements.

    what i am taking away from this thread -
    focus on ingredients.
    get BACK on a cooenzyme b complex... dammit!
    get a BACK on a selenium SPECIFIC supplement... dammit!
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    Hey Dr.
    Any thoughts on a Tumeric Phytosome like Meriva?
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    Great info in here...Love it
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    Quote Originally Posted by jin View Post
    11 dianabol - yes, there IS an 11th supplement!
    10 resveratrol and quercetin - resv = bulk powder. too many reasons to use it. querc = - too many reasons to use it, helps stuff like resveratrol work, cheap.
    9 lclt/alcar combo - bulk powders. too many reasons to use these
    8 green foods powder - chlorella, spirulina, veggies, mixed into a shake, usually post workout or pre-bed.
    using NOW green phytofoods atm...
    7 coq10, ala, sam-e/tmg, cinnamon, ginger, garlic, olive oil - tie!
    6 multimineral - using a NOW product, actually 1/2 daily dose, with 1/2 tab crushed and added to intra drink on wo days too. generating less than 1/4 the selenium recommended by d_. need to get a selenium supp in the mail asap!
    5 omega 3s - keep them in the fridge!
    4 coconut oil - outside and inside, good for you, helps absorption of phs and fat soluble stuffs, full of mct's (lauric acid, anyone?), antimicrobial, use on skin too mixed with other essential oils, cedar being one of my favorites.
    3 vitamins d and c - d = take 10,000iu/day through the winter, none in the summer with 2hours shirtless sun between 10 and 2:00/week, c = buffered with calcium and magnesium, not pre-workout.
    2 turmeric/curcumin - bulk powder, dump a few grams turmeric in natty choco whey shakes, add olive/coconut oil - tastes great!
    1 astaxanthin - 1 gram 1% bulk powder daily - after a couple weeks of this with curcumin, i was able to bench again after many years of heavy shoulder pain. now, 80-90% less pain doing these movements.

    what i am taking away from this thread -
    focus on ingredients.
    get BACK on a cooenzyme b complex... dammit!
    get a BACK on a selenium SPECIFIC supplement... dammit!
    Reps for the EVCO! I wouldnt even thought to add that and I use it just about everyday from cooking to shaving! Definitely a necessity for me!!
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    right on man!
    i shave with it too!
    i mix a few drops of cedar and/or sage oil in some coconut oil (extra virgin, yes, best smell and flavor) and slather the jawline.
    the razor GLIDES man! leaves the skin smooth, clean, and naturally resistant to infection, fungus, etc.
    thanks for the reps...
    feels good to be of the same mind with a man like yourself...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jin View Post
    right on man!
    i shave with it too!
    i mix a few drops of cedar and/or sage oil in some coconut oil (extra virgin, yes, best smell and flavor) and slather the jawline.
    the razor GLIDES man! leaves the skin smooth, clean, and naturally resistant to infection, fungus, etc.
    thanks for the reps...
    feels good to be of the same mind with a man like yourself...
    your from the lean bulk board right?
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    ...Shaving with EVCO? You gents are brilliant!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve
    ...Shaving with EVCO? You gents are brilliant!
    Wow I need to look into this
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    I seriously will never go back to shaving creams or gels. I might switch to some non virgin coconut oil though as EVCO starts to get expensive when you are using it for so many things daily
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Hmm...I'm not even sure I have a "top 10" supplements lol. I personally believe that most of these things are gimmicks at best and the clinical studies done for the majority of these are too narrow or the test base is way too small to make accurate conclusions. With that said, here are my "staples" if you will...

    Non-hormonal aka supporting supps:

    4)Fish oils
    3)Coq-10
    2)Hawthorne Berry
    1)UDCA (low dose 250mg/day)

    Hormonal Supps:

    8)GHRP's [Ipa and (-2)]
    7)IGF-1
    6)PEG MGF-1
    5)Toco-8
    4)DAA
    3)Clomid
    2)Formestane/Exemestane
    1)Testosterone and it's derivatives
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    so whats the suggested dosing on Coq10 to achieve the mentioned results and what duration should that be attempted? constant?
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    Just ordered some Selenium, Curcumin, Magnesium, ALCAR, CoQ10, Vitamin C / D, and a B complex...feels nice to place an order that I know will directly benefit my health, and not just strictly performance/size blah blah.

    Also grabbed some DAA, for my next stack I'm throwing together. Already have BA (Intraxcell), Omega3's (oximega), and creatine (Creatine RT).


    This thread is definitely a step in the right direction, and it really hit home when Dana made a point that our goals for whichever sport we compete should in no way compete with the priority of our own health...and in fact they should be focused on cohesively in a sense.

    Health = longevity
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveGabe24 View Post
    Just ordered some Selenium, Curcumin, Magnesium, ALCAR, CoQ10, Vitamin C / D, and a B complex...feels nice to place an order that I know will directly benefit my health, and not just strictly performance/size blah blah.

    Also grabbed some DAA, for my next stack I'm throwing together. Already have BA (Intraxcell), Omega3's (oximega), and creatine (Creatine RT).


    This thread is definitely a step in the right direction, and it really hit home when Dana made a point that our goals for whichever sport we compete should in no way compete with the priority of our own health...and in fact they should be focused on cohesively in a sense.

    Health = longevity
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    I'd like to make a similar order. I'm hoping the doc will weigh in on the doses and timing, still
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveGabe24 View Post
    Just ordered some Selenium, Curcumin, Magnesium, ALCAR, CoQ10, Vitamin C / D, and a B complex...feels nice to place an order that I know will directly benefit my health, and not just strictly performance/size blah blah.

    Also grabbed some DAA, for my next stack I'm throwing together. Already have BA (Intraxcell), Omega3's (oximega), and creatine (Creatine RT).


    This thread is definitely a step in the right direction, and it really hit home when Dana made a point that our goals for whichever sport we compete should in no way compete with the priority of our own health...and in fact they should be focused on cohesively in a sense.

    Health = longevity
    Longevity = More time for success
    completely agree with you here!

    I placed an order that looked very similar to that recently too
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    I'm gonna make some potent caps on custom capsule! CQ10 is expensive, esp if I dose it at 400mg? But I get a year's worth for $130. No one has chimed in about dosage!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    Sub'd for more info and looking forward to hearing more doses used on these products/ingredients (minimum/maximum and optimal, along with timing).
    Bump
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    I'm gonna make some potent caps on custom capsule! CQ10 is expensive, esp if I dose it at 400mg? But I get a year's worth for $130. No one has chimed in about dosage!
    I'm actually surprised we didn't see it go up further in price after the disaster in japan. A lot of it is manufactured there.
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    hmmm so really NO ONE knows an appropriate dose??? Im sure D isnt the only one here with some knowledge on the subject... any studies with a specific dose showing changes in fiber content??
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    Under the Age of 35: 100-200 mg of Ubiquinone (plain CoQ10) once daily

    Over the Age of 35: 100 mg of Ubiquinol CoQ10. Therefore, you don't have to worry about conversion rates since it is already in active form. Younger people can get away with plain ubiquinone.
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    so i read back....

    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd
    In this paper, we report results obtained from a continuing clinical trial on the effect of coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) administration on human vastus lateralis (quadriceps) skeletal muscle. Muscle samples, obtained from aged individuals receiving placebo or CoQ10 supplementation (300mg per day for four weeks prior to hip replacement surgery) were analysed for changes in gene and protein expression and in muscle fibre type composition. Microarray analysis (Affymetrix U95A human oligonucleotide array) using a change in gene expression of 1.8-fold or greater as a cutoff point, demonstrated that a total of 115 genes were differentially expressed in six subject comparisons. In the CoQ10-treated subjects, 47 genes were up-regulated and 68 down-regulated in comparison with placebo-treated subjects. Restriction fragment differential display analysis showed that over 600 fragments were differentially expressed using a 2.0-fold or greater change in expression as a cutoff point. Proteome analysis revealed that, of the high abundance muscle proteins detected (2,086 +/- 115), the expression of 174 proteins was induced by CoQ10 while 77 proteins were repressed by CoQ10 supplementation. Muscle fibre types were also affected by CoQ10 treatment; CoQ10-treated individuals showed a lower proportion of type I (slow twitch) fibres and a higher proportion of type IIb (fast twitch) fibres, compared to age-matched placebo-treated subjects. The data suggests that CoQ10 treatment can act to influence the fibre type composition towards the fibre type profile generally found in younger individuals. Our results led us to the conclusion that coenzyme Q10 is a gene regulator and consequently has wide-ranging effects on over-all tissue metabolism. We develop a comprehensive hypothesis that CoQ10 plays a major role in the determination of membrane potential of many, if not all, sub-cellular membrane systems and that H2O2 arising from the activities of CoQ10 acts as a second messenger for the modulation of gene expression and cellular metabolism.
    I guess thats a starting point but this is only for 4 weeks.... is it safe to continue this dosage for longer periods of time? I dont even know whats rec on a bottle honestly....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ev52 View Post
    Under the Age of 35: 100-200 mg of Ubiquinone (plain CoQ10) once daily

    Over the Age of 35: 100 mg of Ubiquinol CoQ10. Therefore, you don't have to worry about conversion rates since it is already in active form. Younger people can get away with plain ubiquinone.
    thanks for replying...

    I wonder what this means for the study then and if dose was increased due solely to age and what form of CoQ10 was actually used to equate a safe and reasonable dose to use for younger aged individuals.

    My guess is ubiquinone is cheaper too and the reason why its suggested if one can adequately convert it???
  

  
 

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