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  1. Quote Originally Posted by blackjackcat View Post
    Curious, do you suggest taking r-ala or NAC when taking the Carnitine combo you put on your list?
    Why not use both? If you have to pick, r-ala or coq10 would work best with carnitine.


  2. Hey Coop,

    What is your take on Humanofort? Dr. Houser seems to like it, and I think I read in previous posts that Vaughn thinks it has potential (albeit in fairly large doses).
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by domore View Post
    Hey Coop,

    What is your take on Humanofort? Dr. Houser seems to like it, and I think I read in previous posts that Vaughn thinks it has potential (albeit in fairly large doses).
    The data seems to be there. Unfortunately, dosing it correctly would necessitate heavy expenses. It's similar to phosphatidylserine in that there is good, human data on the compound, but it's excluded from the market simply due to cost and the presence of other ingredients that can get the job done without hurting your wallet as badly.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    The data seems to be there. Unfortunately, dosing it correctly would necessitate heavy expenses. It's similar to phosphatidylserine in that there is good, human data on the compound, but it's excluded from the market simply due to cost and the presence of other ingredients that can get the job done without hurting your wallet as badly.
    Okay, if I can save up some money, cut back on some of the unnecessary things I have now, I may give it a go.

    Do you think Humanofort will be included in MAN's new product, PF3?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Why not use both? If you have to pick, r-ala or coq10 would work best with carnitine.

    I do use Ubiquinal currrently(for the last few months) and was going to start on the Carnitine. Thanks for the quick response.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Why not use both? If you have to pick, r-ala or coq10 would work best with carnitine.
    I was wondering about the na-r-ala for free radical damage from dosing 2 grams each of LCLT/PLC/ALCAR, but it looks like D said as long as your not doing it long term(i.e. more than 3-4 months), free radicals damage should not be a problem. How do you dose when you use these three? Do you take them together, empty stomach, with carbs, pre and post workout, pre-bed ect? I ordered all three, from Nutraplanet and just was wondering how you take them. I did some searching, but there seems to be different opinions, but you seem to be know what your talking about and have used these before.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by domore View Post
    Okay, if I can save up some money, cut back on some of the unnecessary things I have now, I may give it a go.

    Do you think Humanofort will be included in MAN's new product, PF3?
    Was not aware MAN was making a new product besides the Nolva one. What's it advertised to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackjackcat View Post
    I was wondering about the na-r-ala for free radical damage from dosing 2 grams each of LCLT/PLC/ALCAR, but it looks like D said as long as your not doing it long term(i.e. more than 3-4 months), free radicals damage should not be a problem. How do you dose when you use these three? Do you take them together, empty stomach, with carbs, pre and post workout, pre-bed ect? I ordered all three, from Nutraplanet and just was wondering how you take them. I did some searching, but there seems to be different opinions, but you seem to be know what your talking about and have used these before.
    I would not concern yourself with free radicals induced my carnitine pro-oxidation. That effect was documented at the 6 month stage (though it may have occurred sooner).

    LCLT - 2g preworkout
    PLCAR - 2g preworkout or upon rising
    ALCAR - 2g preworkout or upon rising

    I personally take PLCAR at 2g preworkout only and and ALCAR at 2g both preworkout and on off days. When I have LCLT, I use about 3g preworkout.

    Do them all on empty unless you're trying to elevate muscle carnitine (which should NOT be your goal unless you are wealthy).

  8. Bump for Humanofort information

  9. Quote Originally Posted by zaire2d
    Bump for Humanofort information
    What is humanafort?
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  10. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Was not aware MAN was making a new product besides the Nolva one. What's it advertised to do?



    I would not concern yourself with free radicals induced my carnitine pro-oxidation. That effect was documented at the 6 month stage (though it may have occurred sooner).

    LCLT - 2g preworkout
    PLCAR - 2g preworkout or upon rising
    ALCAR - 2g preworkout or upon rising

    I personally take PLCAR at 2g preworkout only and and ALCAR at 2g both preworkout and on off days. When I have LCLT, I use about 3g preworkout.

    Do them all on empty unless you're trying to elevate muscle carnitine (which should NOT be your goal unless you are wealthy).
    This was the exact info I was looking for, thanks Mr. Cooper!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Was not aware MAN was making a new product besides the Nolva one. What's it advertised to do?



    I would not concern yourself with free radicals induced my carnitine pro-oxidation. That effect was documented at the 6 month stage (though it may have occurred sooner).

    LCLT - 2g preworkout
    PLCAR - 2g preworkout or upon rising
    ALCAR - 2g preworkout or upon rising

    I personally take PLCAR at 2g preworkout only and and ALCAR at 2g both preworkout and on off days. When I have LCLT, I use about 3g preworkout.

    Do them all on empty unless you're trying to elevate muscle carnitine (which should NOT be your goal unless you are wealthy).
    Split dosing not necessary?

    I had been taking 1.5g pre and then .75g later on, typically with food.
    This is with 2.5-3g LCLT pre

  12. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Split dosing not necessary?

    I had been taking 1.5g pre and then .75g later on, typically with food.
    This is with 2.5-3g LCLT pre
    What are you splitting, ALCAR?

    It's too much labor I'd say for LCLT. Just take it preworkout all at once. You'll get plenty of the recovery benefits that way, and the other benefits you get from LCLT even if you're sedentary will still apply if you take it in one dose preworkout. It has a long half life, no need to split.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Split dosing not necessary?

    I had been taking 1.5g pre and then .75g later on, typically with food.
    This is with 2.5-3g LCLT pre
    ALCAR can be split. Only one I wouldn't split is LCLT.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    ALCAR can be split. Only one I wouldn't split is LCLT.
    Yeah ALCAR is what I'm splitting, my bad. Should I not bother with it?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    .
    double post****
    ...::: Olympus Labs Representative :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  16. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    .
    Coop, inbox full but here is my response

    Potentiation of alpha and delta ppar agonists?
    ...::: Olympus Labs Representative :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  17. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Yeah ALCAR is what I'm splitting, my bad. Should I not bother with it?
    Just take it at once if you don't get a headache

  18. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Just take it at once if you don't get a headache
    Only felt effect I've ever had from ALCAR is headaches when keto dieting. No problems or benefits for that matter on a normal diet. I'll try full dose pre.

    Dodge over at bb.com said something about depletion of carnitine levels throughout the day or something.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Only felt effect I've ever had from ALCAR is headaches when keto dieting. No problems or benefits for that matter on a normal diet. I'll try full dose pre.

    Dodge over at bb.com said something about depletion of carnitine levels throughout the day or something.
    Depletion of carnitine? You certain? It's been demonstrated that muscle carnitine can be increased with administration of 2g carnitine daily with carbs.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Depletion of carnitine? You certain? It's been demonstrated that muscle carnitine can be increased with administration of 2g carnitine daily with carbs.
    Coop, why do some recommend alcar to be taken with alpha lipoic acid?
    PES ALPHAMINE Log
    h ttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213082-pes-alphamine-log.html

  21. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Was not aware MAN was making a new product besides the Nolva one. What's it advertised to do?
    I think it is only in beta testing.

    From what I gather, it is just concentrated doses of growth factors, and some other proprietary ingredient that will be known upon release.

    I threw out a guess that Humanofort may be the hidden ingredient.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza

    Coop, why do some recommend alcar to be taken with alpha lipoic acid?
    That had been answered a few pages back. He posted a really good reply if you look.
    Training Log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/271254-what-aw-hell.html
    "Jackie Treehorn treats objects like woman man."

  23. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    This is a great point. The carnitine moiety is likely what is responsible for the effects of LCLT on AR density and recovery, but at the same time, we do not know if other carnitine salts can accomplish this end result due to the fact that LCLT has superior kinetics/half-life. As far as ALCAR and PLCAR, I think most of the documented benefits are exclusive to those salts. For instance, the nootropic effect (acetate donation) of ALCAR and the cardioprotective effect (Propionyl-CoA elevation in cardiomyocytes) of PLCAR would be exclusive to those two forms.
    Well, I don't exactly agree - especially in terms of carioprotective effect. Standard LCAR has been studied actually and yields comparable results EXCEPT in needed times of overt ischemia (i.e. - acute MI); but really...the salt is less dependent on much outside of "timed need," which may or may not be expedited in some instances [The data is available; I just don't have time at present to offer a great retort outside of that unfortunately, but a simple search of Carnitine versus PLC would yield plenty of data]. I am absolutely convinced that the salt becomes less pertinent in a dose-dependent manner as well.


    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  24. Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Well, I don't exactly agree - especially in terms of carioprotective effect. Standard LCAR has been studied actually and yields comparable results EXCEPT in needed times of overt ischemia (i.e. - acute MI); but really...the salt is less dependent on much outside of "timed need," which may or may not be expedited in some instances [The data is available; I just don't have time at present to offer a great retort outside of that unfortunately, but a simple search of Carnitine versus PLC would yield plenty of data]. I am absolutely convinced that the salt becomes less pertinent in a dose-dependent manner as well.


    D_
    I believe you're right, but would you not agree that the accelerated rate of carnitine entry into cardiomyocytes is dependent on PLCAR's ability to enter skeletal muscle directly, rather than needing prolonged administration (as with L-Car and LCLT).

  25. Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    I actually think the studies show quite the contrary - the problem (at least in some people's eyes), they are all Romanian... and in Romania, its actually still classified a drug. Many supplements GROSSLY underdose the thing, but effective dosing is a minimum of 300mg (if not more) - but in individuals with decreased IGF-1, we've had great response with Humanofort monotherapy.

    A company known as GEN used to have the best product dosed at 300mg...years later, Labrada picked it up and in the stand-alone, it was not remotely the same item as when I had used it in years previous out of GEN. Since the release of their HumanoGrowth, which I recently invested in (wary - to say the least) and over the course of the last 4 days - DOUBLE-DOSED mind you (so, 8 caps before bed)...I have had incredible sleep results and wake up feeling great (mind you, given my schedule - sleep is a hot commodity).

    So, if the science fits...Humanofort should lead to an elevation of 17-ketosteroid levels in the adrenal gland (my DHEA levels were low on a recent blood draw and decreased DHEA and/or IGF-1 levels are met with increased cardiovascular disarray). In fact, Humanofort has shown to raise these levels by as much as 68%! Increased 17-ketosteroid levels will mean increased lipid metabolism and improved anabolism, through an elevation of androgens and a decrease in the catabolic hormone cortisol (which has been talked about a great deal in this and many other threads in this subforum). The documented antioxidant proprieties will also limit exercise-induced free radical damage to muscle tissue (again - let's re-visit the utility when we have spoken of oxidation and the like in this thread). In any event, I will do a full review when done with the Labrada product - but again, double-dosed, so we are talking only a 15-day trial...but I would be happy to invest in it - even at the cost of the product for 15 day cycles IF it actually works; I will follow up with blood work too btw on my DHEA levels and any impact to adrenal steroids...stay tuned.




    1. Effects of Oral Administered Humanofort on Steroid Hormones Level and on Oxidative Stress” by Prof. Gh. Mihaescu, T. Stoica, F. Oancea, Medicine Pharmacy University „Carol Davila” Bucharest, Romania

    2. Oxidative Stress decrease in Old Age Patients Treated with Drugs Containing Embryonic Peptides Gh. Mihaescu, O. Mihaescu, I. Mihaescu, National Institute for Geriatrics and Gerontology „Ana Aslan”, Bucharest, Romania

    3. Clinical Trial of Humanofort Effect on Overweight Endocrinology Institute „C. I. Parhon” Bucharest, Romania




    D_
    Bumpin' for Dr. Houser

  26. finally finished reading this whole thread, now i'm yearning for a top 15 or top 20...

  27. These supplements should be included on my top 10 list: immune support, krill oil, chlorella, coq10 and vitamin b12.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by wandagustov
    These supplements should be included on my top 10 list: immune support, krill oil, chlorella, coq10 and vitamin b12.
    Krill? Why? From what i've read thus far, you're better off sticking with fish oil.
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  29. Dr,

    Should we worry about getting too much folic acid as a result of taking a B Complex? Ergo-log just posted a study saying getting too much folate can promote cancer. Thanks for your help.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Garyboy View Post
    Dr,

    Should we worry about getting too much folic acid as a result of taking a B Complex? Ergo-log just posted a study saying getting too much folate can promote cancer. Thanks for your help.
    Do you have a link to that post?
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