[matheje]

I'm 46 and have been lifting since my early 20's. I did two cycles back in the day, now looking to do something legal.

I'm about 5'9, 175 lbs. My goals now are to try and get a bit more lean, as I have just a little midsection fat, and put on about 5 lbs of muscle. For my first forray I'm stepping in slowly and I'm running:

Havoc
Cycle Support

I also use:
Animal Pak (1 in the a.m.)
NO Explode (pre-workout)
Amino Fuel (liquid protein immediately after workout)
A good Whey product, twice per day, in the a.m. and at night

I work out 6 days per week, 3 days lifting, 3 days cardio/abs:

Day 1 Chest, Back
Day 2 Cardio/abs
Day 3 Shoulders/bis/tris
Day 4 Cardio/abs
Day 5 Legs
Day 6 Cardio/abs

Any thoughts on the effectiveness of my supplements and training program? Would anyone suggest additional supplements, a fat burner or modification of my routine?

[classic27]

hi,

I am your size and will be going on a havoc cycle later this summer so I would like to see how this works out for you.

Do you have pct lined up?

[matheje]

Originally Posted by classic27

hi,

I am your size and will be going on a havoc cycle later this summer so I would like to see how this works out for you.

Do you have pct lined up?

Yes, but some here would say no!

I purchased Advanced PCT at the suggestion of someone I know who has used Havoc and followed with APCT and says he's had no issues whatsoever.

Many here suggest a true SERM is called for, i.e. Nolvadex , which I believe is only available with a prescription or through a "connection"....I believe Nolvadex is a drug often used with breast cancer patients...I don't think I'm inclined to go that route!

I'll keep you posted on my results...but in any event if I notice signs of gyno, I'm off the stuff and heading to my Doc.

Did you have an idea of what PCT you'd use?

[luclyluciano]

I'm 45 and just finished my 1st cycle ever of E-max, an Epistane clone...same as Havoc. I pulsed the cycle since it can be suppressive and took Advanced PCT and Cycle Support on off days. This worked great...you need cycle support to lower blood pressure, cholesterold, and protect your liver. You should not get gyno on this...I'm told allot of people on these forums greatly exagerate symptoms.

One thing is for sure...your training and diet must be perfect BEFORE you start this. You can take Havoc and not get any benefits and more importantly...LOSE IT ALL AFTERWARDS....and what good would that be to spend all that money, make some gains and go back to where you were b4. You must be training hard...almost to your MAX weights and your diet must be CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN and the proper amount of carbs, protein, & fat or you'll be wasting money, time & staining your health for nothing.

I am 45 and one of the most muscular guys in the gym & I am one of the heaviest lifters...I eat clean, yet I hardly gained any weight from my pulse cycle because my diet did not have enough of an increase in calories to build more muscle. I got awsome pumps but guess what...they go away fast.

Best of luck...Lucky!

[classic27]

well personally I will probably use nolvadex and cycle support. I don't want to take chances of not using a good serm. I have already done that before. nolvadex is pretty easy to get. We can't give sources but its not too hard to find a site.

[Good Shepherd]

Originally Posted by matheje

I'm 46 and have been lifting since my early 20's. I did two cycles back in the day, now looking to do something legal.

I'm about 5'9, 175 lbs. My goals now are to try and get a bit more lean, as I have just a little midsection fat, and put on about 5 lbs of muscle. For my first forray I'm stepping in slowly and I'm running:

Havoc
Cycle Support

I also use:
Animal Pak (1 in the a.m.)
NO Explode (pre-workout)
Amino Fuel (liquid protein immediately after workout)
A good Whey product, twice per day, in the a.m. and at night

I work out 6 days per week, 3 days lifting, 3 days cardio/abs:

Day 1 Chest, Back
Day 2 Cardio/abs
Day 3 Shoulders/bis/tris
Day 4 Cardio/abs
Day 5 Legs
Day 6 Cardio/abs

Any thoughts on the effectiveness of my supplements and training program? Would anyone suggest additional supplements, a fat burner or modification of my routine?

The first thing I would do is make sure the diet is dialed in. Next, rethink those supplements- scratch the liquid aminos.....at the very least consumer a quality whey isolate/hydro supp. Fell free to throw in some bcaa's as well as some kind of carb source -whether it be from solid food( oats,yams,ect) or a liquid source like waxy maize or some glucose blend. Bracket something simple like that around the weight workout as a starting point. Try using the animal pack following the work out as well.

[matheje]

Originally Posted by Good Shepherd

The first thing I would do is make sure the diet is dialed in. Next, rethink those supplements- scratch the liquid aminos.....at the very least consumer a quality whey isolate/hydro supp. Fell free to throw in some bcaa's as well as some kind of carb source -whether it be from solid food( oats,yams,ect) or a liquid source like waxy maize or some glucose blend. Bracket something simple like that around the weight workout as a starting point. Try using the animal pack following the work out as well.

Thanks for the reply.

The diet is by far the most difficult part for me. I'm constantly on the run, coaching sports, running the kids here and there and it's tough to stay dialed in. Any basic suggestion regarding diet, i.e. what to eat when?

[Usf97j4x4]

Have you considered H-Drol? You could easily drop 2% bf and put on 6-8 lbs with it...

[Usf97j4x4]

Originally Posted by matheje

I'm 46 and have been lifting since my early 20's. I did two cycles back in the day, now looking to do something legal.

I'm about 5'9, 175 lbs. My goals now are to try and get a bit more lean, as I have just a little midsection fat, and put on about 5 lbs of muscle. For my first forray I'm stepping in slowly and I'm running:

Havoc
Cycle Support

I also use:
Animal Pak (1 in the a.m.)
NO Explode (pre-workout)
Amino Fuel (liquid protein immediately after workout)
A good Whey product, twice per day, in the a.m. and at night

I work out 6 days per week, 3 days lifting, 3 days cardio/abs:

Day 1 Chest, Back
Day 2 Cardio/abs
Day 3 Shoulders/bis/tris
Day 4 Cardio/abs
Day 5 Legs
Day 6 Cardio/abs

Any thoughts on the effectiveness of my supplements and training program? Would anyone suggest additional supplements, a fat burner or modification of my routine?

Ditch the NO explode and save it for PCT... the stimulants in it could cause an increase in blood pressure - which will already be elevated above baseline by the Havoc. For this same reason I would limit your cardio, at least drop it to 1-2 days/week.

[Manchester]

I agree with Usf97j4x4 that you should probably discontinue the NO Xplode while on any epi product because of the risk of hypertension (particularly while working out). Advanced PCT is fine for post-cycle therapy as long as your epi doses aren't off of the chart. However, I do agree with everyone else, if you have any concerns whatsoever, you should consider a SERM.

[matheje]

Originally Posted by Manchester

I agree with Usf97j4x4 that you should probably discontinue the NO Xplode while on any epi product because of the risk of hypertension (particularly while working out). Advanced PCT is fine for post-cycle therapy as long as your epi doses aren't off of the chart. However, I do agree with everyone else, if you have any concerns whatsoever, you should consider a SERM.

Appreciate th responses, guys.

Anyone have a feel for whether creatine has any blood pressure implications?

[crewchief182]

I'm 47 and have tried many of the prohormone/prosteriod products in the past. Havoc, SD, original Halo etc. Most of the gains were lost after using these products, even with proper PCT to include Serms. I don't think I'll be using my remaining stockpile of these types of products either.

I can honestly say that I am having my best results right now, without these types of products. Never thought I would be saying this either. I have been using three products from USP Labs: PowerFull, Recreate & Anabolic Pump. The gains are wonderful and permanent and not only safe, but healthy. My daily regimen also consists of:
Fish oil
Creatine
Glutamine
Protien Powder
Multi's
Celery seed
BCAA's

The gains from all the Prohormone type products were decent, yet very temporary and not worth the risks, no matter how small that may be. I did find the sides varied greatly from product to product.

Good luck with the Havoc though, as it did work for me in the past.

[luclyluciano]

Originally Posted by crewchief182

I'm 47 and have tried many of the prohormone/prosteriod products in the past. Havoc, SD, original Halo etc. Most of the gains were lost after using these products, even with proper PCT to include Serms. I don't think I'll be using my remaining stockpile of these types of products either.

I can honestly say that I am having my best results right now, without these types of products. Never thought I would be saying this either. I have been using three products from USP Labs: PowerFull, Recreate & Anabolic Pump. The gains are wonderful and permanent and not only safe, but healthy. My daily regimen also consists of:
Fish oil
Creatine
Glutamine
Protien Powder
Multi's
Celery seed
BCAA's

The gains from all the Prohormone type products were decent, yet very temporary and not worth the risks, no matter how small that may be. I did find the sides varied greatly from product to product.

Good luck with the Havoc though, as it did work for me in the past.

That's Funny! I am 45 yrs old, finished an EPI pulse about a month ago, went on PCT with those supps you mentioned...Powerfull, AP, Lean Xtreme, Drive, Mass FX and as much as I hate to say it there is no comparison...for me those supps are a bunch of Hype and false advertizing. Just read what their literature states. Alpha male, increased libido, massive pumps, leaning out, on and on....with results like these Ronnie Coleman and Me would not need Roids!
What a waste of $200 and one months time. My buddy gave me a bottle of 6-0x0 and man this stuff rocks...the rest is crap & a ripoff in comparison.

The Epistane pulse was awsome...skin splitting pumps...I had everone in the gym staring at me when I was working out...I couldn't believe my eyes. I maintained everything except the strength and endurance. My lifts all went up by 20-30% and that's HUGE...I maintained most of the strenght because of sheer will....you must WANT to keep lifting the same weights otherwise forget it. I force myself to lift the same even if it's for forced reps.

As far as I am concerned...doing the occasional cycle like most on these forums is stricktly for breaking past plateaus in your lifting....It's up to you to maintain that lifting/strength with hard work...otherwise you'll be one of those who say "I lost alll my gains"

Those herbal supps are very weak in comparison but their advertizing makes them sound like the holy grail...don't fall for it and don't be fooled by the placebo effect either.

Many here feel just like I do but rarely talk about it but if you dig enough you'll see what I'm telling you is true.

Epistane is FANTASTIC...can't wait till my next cycle.

Lucky

[matheje]

Well, gotta say the HAvoc cycle was interesting. I started real slow, then went 20, 30, 30, 40, 40...it wasn't until the end of the cycle that I really saw gains.

They weren't all that dramatic, maybe 3 lbs of LM, modest strength gains, but damn, I looked harder and more pumped by far. When in the gym, I almost wanted to put on some sleeves, cuz the guys I am friendly with there, who are all middle aged guys, were looking at me funny.

On the flip side, my nuts started shrinking around week 3, and my sex drive took a dip to some extent. I've been off a week and change now and everything's coming back...although I already see the gains dissipating a bit, despite that I am working my ass off.

All in all? If going on a vacation or something and want to look jacked, start this stuff 3-4 weeks prior and time it. Otherwise I don't think the sides justify the temporary gains.

[Blazer40]

How does Methyl 1d by Lg compare to the Havoc? Has any1 tried the both of them for a good comparison?

Just wondering as I am looking for a good OTC prohormone and pct cycle.

Any suggestions?

[crewchief182]

Havoc (epi) would be my choice, based on what I've read here about Methyl 1d. Never tried the Methyl 1d. Havoc was good to me though.