Epistane: Specific Questions

luclyluciano · 03-25-2008, 07:54 PM

New to this board & loving it.
I'm 45 yrs old, never done AS and been lifting 10yrs.
Good build & get lots of stares at the gym etc.
Heard great things about Epistane & ready to give it a go.
Here Goes the Questions;

a) Dutchman posted that he uses it as a transdermal but I see it sold in capsules...which is whic? Confused????
b)I'm interested in pulsing it and very confused with all the recommend for PCT. Can I keep it to 1 product only and keep it simple. What should it be??
c) is this gonna be hard on my liver and what exactly does this mean & how will I know if I have a problem>
d) I"m from Toronto Canada, was considering ordering from Nutriplanet via Fed Ex to my office...50 people there.
Does Nutriplanet have the best PCT so I can order from the same source? Is shipping to my office OK.
e) Duthcman seemed to recommend the Epi together with Formastene....Not sure what it does and is it a good idea or should I just stick to the Epi

All I can think of for now-Support greatly appreciated

Luckyluciano

brandon615 · 03-25-2008, 08:51 PM

Wow lots of questions. Umm he probably makes his own transdermal out of it.
Its your first aas so IMO i think you would be alright to run it as a solo.
People on these boards suggest running a serm as your main supp of pct. I wish i had a link to neo's post about epistane it has tons of information. Use the search feature on this website and look up epistane you should find his post there.

Edit: My guess would be he removes the powder and mixes it with his formula for makin a transdermal. I honestly have no idea tho.

brandon615 · 03-25-2008, 08:56 PM

O and yes its methylated so it will be hard on your liver.
nutraplanet carries post cycle support by AI. Very effective pct option, but its not a Rx serm (which is what ppl suggest you get).

heebs10 · 03-25-2008, 09:30 PM

a) never heard of anyone using epi in a transdermal, perhaps he has some bulk epi stright from the supplier and puts it in a TD carrier. epi, havoc, and all the clones come in caps and taken orally.
b) Post Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations was designed to by used after epi cycles and seems to be one of the single best over the counter pct products out there.(support/liver supps should still be used)
c) epi is methylated and is hepatoxic (toxic to the liver) to some degree. pulsing cycles help to cut down the overall toxicity. your liver metabolizes these compounds and is put under additional stress similar to how alcohol puts additional stress on the liver. elevated liver enzymes and lipid profiles are pretty common but the pulse method helps to minimize this. blood tests before and after the cycle is the only way know how much damage was done. Cycle Support (also made by anabolic Innovations) should be taken on off days during your cycle and into your PCT, this also helps minimize liver damage even further.
d) if you decide to or Post Cycle Support for your pct, it is sold at NP as well. should not have problems shipping it to your office as the product is legal unless your office has rules against that kind of thing.
e) for your first cycle, keep it simple, dont add the formastain this time around. (formastain is a transdermal and might be where the epi/transdermal confusion came from)

keep researching before starting,
good luck dude

luclyluciano · 03-26-2008, 11:50 AM

is 1 or 2 cycles really that bad for the liver? is using a transdermal totally bypassing the liver??

**ozarkaBRAND** · 03-26-2008, 11:59 AM

a). transdermal delivery is unnecessary since this particular oral is methylated.. Making a transderm out of this would be a waste of time, and money.
b). If you pulse it, or if you don't, you could use sustain alpha or post cycle support, along with a good test booster for pct.. This should work fine, and all of these are available at nutraplanet.
c). It will tax the liver to some degree, but it's nothing to worry about. Epi is one of the mildest methyl's when it comes to hepatoxicity.
d). shipping to an office is fine, pct was answered above.
e). epi with formestane is an awful idea, unless you want your joints to creak and hurt like crazy.. I recommend DHEA along with epi.

**ozarkaBRAND** · 03-26-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luclyluciano

is 1 or 2 cycles really that bad for the liver? is using a transdermal totally bypassing the liver??

No, and no.

luclyluciano · 03-26-2008, 12:18 PM

i once read on coast-coast bodybuilding that your 1st cycle was the most important for gains & should be the most important because after the 1st cycle there were deminishing relults....is this true?? Are future cycles of Epistan going to show any further gains??

brandon615 · 03-26-2008, 12:41 PM

After repeated usage of AAS people say that your androgen receptors become use to the substance therefore you wont see as good of results. Thats why ppl cycle and take off and cycle something different then later they might come back to the original AAS used.

heebs10 · 03-26-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luclyluciano

i once read on coast-coast bodybuilding that your 1st cycle was the most important for gains & should be the most important because after the 1st cycle there were deminishing relults....is this true?? Are future cycles of Epistan going to show any further gains??

cycle after cycle you will still make gains. but the more cycles you have under your belt, the more your going to burn your androgen receptors. for example, if you cycle 30mg of epi for a month straight, and you do that exact cycle every third or forth month, you wont get the same gains you got from your first cycle when your on your sixth cycle.

luclyluciano · 03-26-2008, 06:23 PM

thanks for all the responses...this board is the best!

Nutraplanet sells IBE's version of Epistane! Is IBE the best way for me to go? Nutraplanet says out of stock!!!

How many bottlles of 90 caps would I need for my 1st cycle and should I do the pulse for my 1st cycle??

Keeping it all very simple, what else should I order for support, PCT and hair loss prevention. For me...less is more, I'd like to keep this as simple as possible as I am very busy with my business, life, kids etc!

Thanx in adance...you guys are great!!!

brandon615 · 03-26-2008, 10:29 PM

one 90 cap bottle will be more than enough. somethin like 20/30/30/40 or 20/30/40/40. I would just run a straight four week cycle. Umm your pct depends on whether or not your goin the Rx route or non-Rx route. As far as support supplemets go i would go with cycle support by anabolic innovations, its got everything you need.

heebs10 · 03-26-2008, 11:07 PM

running your cycle at 20/30/30/40 would come out to exactly 90 caps, but 20/30/40/40 obviously comes out to 100 caps. for your first cycle though 20/30/30/40 would be just fine, so just get one bottle. epistane and havoc are the two most popular but epidrol is probably third most popular, either one of the three is a good choice IMO (all three are exactly the same compound, mg per cap, and #of caps).

brandon615 · 03-26-2008, 11:10 PM

lol damn i miscalculated....

luclyluciano · 03-27-2008, 11:27 AM

what must I do so I do not lose my gains?

what is the Rx-route VS the non Rx-route???

brandon615 · 03-27-2008, 05:08 PM

Most Importantly!

No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

SERM + P.C.T Guide

Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.

1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

Alternative Torm Dosing:
Week1: Days 1-3: 120mg Torm, Days 4-7: 90 mg Torm
Week2: 60mg Torm
Week3: 60mg Torm
Week4: 30mg Torm

You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board.

Example Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday

I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - Good reviews or I have used: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide

1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended)

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

Things To Note

1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT

3. Know what gyno is and the symptoms of gyno: @@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@ - Bodybuilding.com Forums

4. Real Gynomastia Before & After's:

5. Love your Liver!

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Well it didnt work but this is neo's post. He has a lot of good info on epistane and if you find one of his post a bunch of info is in his sig...