Hi I find this forum very interesting...but also a little complicated.
So I decided to post this hoping to recieve some "simplified" help.
i just turned 43! All my life I have done lots fo sports and I have trained in gym's for the past 20 years. Up untill the age of 36-37 I managed to maintain a rock climber physique...but with age this has proved to be harder to maintain. Last year I spent 6 months in California and gained 20 pounds just with the diet change. This has been very good as I gained a little mass and strength. You will see however from the attached picture that its still not very impressive.
The problem now is no matter how hard I train (5-6x per week) I seem to make no more progress.
I have never tried anything except for protein shakes and multivitamin but they don't do much for me. So I'm completely new to this.
What would you recommend? Would Havoc for example make any sense?
Thx

Originally Posted by The Swiss;

Hi I find this forum very interesting...but also a little complicated.
So I decided to post this hoping to recieve some "simplified" help.
i just turned 43! All my life I have done lots fo sports and I have trained in gym's for the past 20 years. Up untill the age of 36-37 I managed to maintain a rock climber physique...but with age this has proved to be harder to maintain. Last year I spent 6 months in California and gained 20 pounds just with the diet change. This has been very good as I gained a little mass and strength. You will see however from the attached picture that its still not very impressive.
The problem now is no matter how hard I train (5-6x per week) I seem to make no more progress.
I have never tried anything except for protein shakes and multivitamin but they don't do much for me. So I'm completely new to this.
What would you recommend? Would Havoc for example make any sense?
Thx

I would do body recomposition first. DCP/RPM/Drive would make a great stack in this area.

Hey Swiss,
Welcome from across the pond!
It seems that you have been overtraining a bit,and being an older guy like me,you can't let the catabolic devil take away your hard earned gains.
As for Havoc,EPI, and such, just take your time, knowledge
takes patience.

In my opinion Havoc (a pro-steroid) seems to be a pretty drastic step from your present situation (workout and diet experience etc.).

If you search other threads here, you'll find some excellent workout routines, diets and cutting and bulking cycles that can help you get some great sustainable results naturally (or with some OTC supplements anyways not including the pro-steroids).

For example if you wanted to run a cutting cycle with ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin, there are a couple of threads right now with good information -- guys there are reporting great fat-loss results.

Originally Posted by FX01

Hey Swiss,
Welcome from across the pond!
It seems that you have been overtraining a bit,and being an older guy like me,you can't let the catabolic devil take away your hard earned gains.
As for Havoc,EPI, and such, just take your time, knowledge
takes patience.

Yes sounds like it. I train 3 times a week and find myself still making gains at 49. I train very hard when I do but I try not to design routines that take more than 45 minutes. Mind you that 45 minutes can be very balistic. Work hard and get out.

Diet is the key to everything, you have to balance your macronutrients and eat very clean. Supplement protein if you need to.

Re-educate yourself on training and diet, experiment with new things to try and figure what works best for you. A friend of mine used to say "Everything works just not for very long", wise words using periodization and progression in your routines, attack the weights like an animal and the world will turn.

The Swiss: Bienvenue, Willkommen. Forgive me as an old lifter who spent much of his life in Germany and Holland. I am familiar with some of the problems you face. In this case I would strongly suggest that you AVOID overtraining and cut back to 4 X per Wk @ 1 to 1 1/4 hrs per workout. Although I am one of the strongest supporters of using Epistane (I am not a Havoc fan) I suggest in your case, that you try to use some Formastane to support your prostate and at the same time boost your testosterone. It has become a staple in my supplementation. I just don't think that you have to jump into Epi just yet. There is nothing better but try to build up to it with Form first. You will, absolutely will, gain in strength and even some mass with the Form. When you eventually try some Epi you will go nuts with your strength impovements. Step by step, you will get there.

Originally Posted by Dutchman

The Swiss: Bienvenue, Willkommen. Forgive me as an old lifter who spent much of his life in Germany and Holland. I am familiar with some of the problems you face. In this case I would strongly suggest that you AVOID overtraining and cut back to 4 X per Wk @ 1 to 1 1/4 hrs per workout. Although I am one of the strongest supporters of using Epistane (I am not a Havoc fan) I suggest in your case, that you try to use some Formastane to support your prostate and at the same time boost your testosterone. It has become a staple in my supplementation. I just don't think that you have to jump into Epi just yet. There is nothing better but try to build up to it with Form first. You will, absolutely will, gain in strength and even some mass with the Form. When you eventually try some Epi you will go nuts with your strength impovements. Step by step, you will get there.

dutchman, i too am a big fan of formestane. are you on a daily regimen, if so whats your dosing? do you cycle off? i dont usually go more than a month before taking time off.

Originally Posted by ClintCanada

In my opinion Havoc (A Steroid) seems to be a pretty drastic step from your present situation (workout and diet experience etc.).

If you search other threads here, you'll find some excellent workout routines, diets and cutting and bulking cycles that can help you get some great sustainable results naturally (or with some OTC supplements anyways not including the pro-steroids).

For example if you wanted to run a cutting cycle with ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin, there are a couple of threads right now with good information -- guys there are reporting great fat-loss results.

fixed

Originally Posted by thebigt

dutchman, i too am a big fan of formestane. are you on a daily regimen, if so whats your dosing? do you cycle off? i dont usually go more than a month before taking time off.

thebigt, I'm serious when I say I have made it a staple of my daily supplementation. It's as important to me as my green tea, cissus, creatine/L-arginine/beta-alanine etc. you have to remember that as an old, old fart I produce more estro than test and likely, more estro than the dutchess. For several years I have tried to reduce estro with Rebound XT and Activate or just Nettle Root. Now I use formastane 2X ED @ 6 squirts per. I go 2 to 3 months and then take a short break of two weeks and start up again. I am currently coming back from my third RC tear and with my Cissus for repair and Form to boost my test I am making outstanding progress.

Originally Posted by Dutchman

thebigt, I'm serious when I say I have made it a staple of my daily supplementation. It's as important to me as my green tea, cissus, creatine/L-arginine/beta-alanine etc. you have to remember that as an old, old fart I produce more estro than test and likely, more estro than the dutchess. For several years I have tried to reduce estro with Rebound XT and Activate or just Nettle Root. Now I use formastane 2X ED @ 6 squirts per. I go 2 to 3 months and then take a short break of two weeks and start up again. I am currently coming back from my third RC tear and with my Cissus for repair and Form to boost my test I am making outstanding progress.

thats the kind of shiit i like to hear, oh yeah look into diesel trib test extreme as a cheaper alternative nettle root. dutchman, great to hear you are doing well. T

Originally Posted by T-Bone

fixed

what does fixed mean?

dont they have anti aging clinics in Swiss, also i think steroids/hgh are legal there??