[poacher]

Yup I'm the new old guy and could really use some help. Been training in my basement for a bout a year now. Good bench olympic bar 500 lbs of weight and dumbells to 75 and lat machine. Okay, my wife joins a health club about 3 weeks ago. Family membership cause the have a great pool and my young son loves swimming thier. The have a great weight room. So I started training their in the mornings. Here is the odd thing. I am getting weeker. This is how my first workout went. Bench. woked up tp 315 for 2 335 for a single 275 for reps. The I did inclines for the first time in over 10 years. I tried 225 and figured It would be heavy. Well I did 7 and stopped cause it felt like a feather. Then did 245 for 5 and 255 for 3. Then did flys 90's for 10 then 8. Now a couple weeks later 295 on the bench for 2 feels hard 225 on the incline for 3 sets of 5 is hard. Does this seem like overtraining or is my body just needing time to adapt to the new work load. I do chest shoulders triceps. Can list shoulder and tri workout if that would help. thanks, poacher.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by poacher

... Now a couple weeks later 295 on the bench for 2 feels hard 225 on the incline for 3 sets of 5 is hard. Does this seem like overtraining or is my body just needing time to adapt to the new work load. I do chest shoulders triceps....

What variables have changed?

If you were using creatine but now you are not you can be weaker. If you were using a strong stimulant or even something like Citruline Malate but now you are not you can be weaker. If you were using an anabolic before but now you are not you can be weaker.

Has your diet changed or the timing of your pre-workout meal? Calories? Carbs? What nutrients were you using during your workout & what are you using now?

Is your rotator cuff strained? Do you do rotator cuff work?

Are you giving your muscles enough time to recuperate before training them again? Is your CNS fully recovered before you train again?

Intensity, volume, going to failure, etc. all play a role in recovery.

These are some things to examine.

Routines become stagnant and must be periodically changed. Exercises, set & rep schemes, tempo, rest and methodologies are some things that can be changed in trying to stay one step ahead of the body's ability to adapt and consequently fail to grow/strenghten.

[poacher]

The big thing that has changed has been the access to the gym. Have added a couple exercises I have not done in a lone time. I am getting great pumps, feel like I am thickening up but was thinking maybe my streangth is down and will be off till I get in better shape to handle the extrat work

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by poacher

The big thing that has changed has been the access to the gym. Have added a couple exercises I have not done in a lone time. I am getting great pumps, feel like I am thickening up but was thinking maybe my streangth is down and will be off till I get in better shape to handle the extrat work

Yep I see what you're saying. This happens to me as well whenever I go from a DC style of training to more of a volume approach.

If I try to be cute with DC training and add volume my strength goes down and if I leave DC for a while and just do volume training my strength goes down as well. Thats just the way it is.

Sounds like w/ all the new equipment options you are a kid in a candy store. I wouldn't worry about the strength loss. It'll come back when you get settled in.

[Old Navy]

DatBtrue

Props on your posts to Poacher. Good questions and good suggestions.

[poacher]

Datbrute thanks. I am like a kid in a candy store. I havent done inclines and hardly done any behind the neck press in over 10 years. Well third week in traing and I decided to mix it up a little. Started with shoulder got 205 X 5 military [behind the neck] And I buried them deep. Then I did incline 225 x8 225 x 7 then 225 x3. Strict dumblee flies 95 x8. Then I finished shoulders. Better workout this morning than I have had in 2 weeks. Thanks agin for all the help.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by poacher

Datbrute thanks. I am like a kid in a candy store. I havent done inclines and hardly done any behind the neck press in over 10 years. Well third week in traing and I decided to mix it up a little. Started with shoulder got 205 X 5 military [behind the neck] And I buried them deep. Then I did incline 225 x8 225 x 7 then 225 x3. Strict dumblee flies 95 x8. Then I finished shoulders. Better workout this morning than I have had in 2 weeks. Thanks agin for all the help.

Just my opinion, poacher, but I would avoid any behind the next exercises, including presses, pull ups and pull downs. Behind the neck sets put extra stress on your neck and shoulders, placing them in an unnatural position during the lift. It's better to keep the weights in front of you.

[poacher]

Thanks old navy. Nobody in the place does behind the necks. The said it's old school. The do this kind of machine called hammer stength. The guys I seen using it were moving a lot of weight but the had very small shoulders. I don't know, maybe it's worth a try. You ever used any hammer stength equiptment. Is it worth doing. And yup my neck is a little sore but in a good way.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by poacher

Thanks old navy. Nobody in the place does behind the necks. The said it's old school. The do this kind of machine called hammer stength. The guys I seen using it were moving a lot of weight but the had very small shoulders. I don't know, maybe it's worth a try. You ever used any hammer stength equiptment. Is it worth doing. And yup my neck is a little sore but in a good way.

I use free weights mostly, but I do work with Hammer Strength, Life Fitness and a couple other brands for specialty exercises.

[datBtrue]

I have to agree with Old Navy...be very careful going behind the neck. They have real value but if you do them make sure to:

1. Do not go below earlobe height.
2. Use lower weight & higher reps (i.e. don't go 6-8 reps go 15-20)
3. Pre-stretch those shoulders, warm them up and do rotator cuff work before this exercise
4. Stop if they pop

You might want to use the Smythe Machine and do them seated, controled and let the weight brush the back of the head (don't go any further behind). Again lower weight & higher reps for behind the necks.

If you must go behind the neck consider doing it later in the shoulder rotation and/or use pre-exhaust methods first...this will reduce the weight you need. If you do this use the Smythe machine...that way you won't use those tired stabilizers and hopefully decrease injury.

If you must go behind the neck consider using them only occassionaly and choose other presses as the main exercises.

As for Hammer Strength it is OK but by itself it won't build massive shoulders. Instead rely on the BB Military Press both standing and seated; DB presses standing, seated (using both parallel and palms forward grips), Arnolds; Push Presses (BB and Smythe); Smythe Machine Presses to the front; Clean and Presses.

Heavy Rows & Deads will hit the rear delts.

Side delts are built with presses not laterals...but if you need them Glass laterals (pinkie high throught the movement) work well.

Most guys discover as they get older that the low rep work (i.e. 6-8) they did in their younger days wasn't as productive as higher rep work. Also rotator cuff injuries from heavy sets and/or behind the neck work occuring in their younger days never completely heal and so they must always be extra careful cus the tenderness is always lurking. Something to consider.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by datBtrue

I have to agree with Old Navy...be very careful going behind the neck. They have real value but if you do them make sure to:

1. Do not go below earlobe height.
2. Use lower weight & higher reps (i.e. don't go 6-8 reps go 15-20)
3. Pre-stretch those shoulders, warm them up and do rotator cuff work before this exercise
4. Stop if they pop

You might want to use the Smythe Machine and do them seated, controled and let the weight brush the back of the head (don't go any further behind). Again lower weight & higher reps for behind the necks.

If you must go behind the neck consider doing it later in the shoulder rotation and/or use pre-exhaust methods first...this will reduce the weight you need. If you do this use the Smythe machine...that way you won't use those tired stabilizers and hopefully decrease injury.

If you must go behind the neck consider using them only occassionaly and choose other presses as the main exercises.

As for Hammer Strength it is OK but by itself it won't build massive shoulders. Instead rely on the BB Military Press both standing and seated; DB presses standing, seated (using both parallel and palms forward grips), Arnolds; Push Presses (BB and Smythe); Smythe Machine Presses to the front; Clean and Presses.

Heavy Rows & Deads will hit the rear delts.

Side delts are built with presses not laterals...but if you need them Glass laterals (pinkie high throught the movement) work well.

Most guys discover as they get older that the low rep work (i.e. 6-8) they did in their younger days wasn't as productive as higher rep work. Also rotator cuff injuries from heavy sets and/or behind the neck work occuring in their younger days never completely heal and so they must always be extra careful cus the tenderness is always lurking. Something to consider.

DatBTrue:

Another great post for the poacher man. If you are not a certified personal trainer, you should be. You know your exercise physiology. Sweet!

[poacher]

Datbtrue , I could just tell that hammer machine had to much mechanical advantage to build shoulders. And like Old Navy said wow very very sage advice. Yup I got to do them Behind the Neck bad boys but I will switch it up to high reps and go no lower than ear lobe height. I do chest first so shoulders are usually warmed up well. Think I will do 3 sets for 15 reps 20 reps sounds high but I may try it. Thanks Poacher.

[poacher]

Took everyones advice. Dropped weight this morning on a couple exercises including Military press and did high reps. Have to say it worked out real good. First set I wasn't to sure. But the second high rep set really got the pump going. Thanks for the help guys.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by Old Navy

DatBTrue:

Another great post for the poacher man. If you are not a certified personal trainer, you should be. You know your exercise physiology. Sweet!

Thank you sir. That is indeed high praise coming from you.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by poacher

Took everyones advice. Dropped weight this morning on a couple exercises including Military press and did high reps. Have to say it worked out real good. First set I wasn't to sure. But the second high rep set really got the pump going. Thanks for the help guys.

Our pleasure poacher. Sounds like you're finding your groove.

[dbl38]

Whens the best way to decide on a switch in exercise, I am lifting three days on one day off and I continue to get stronger on most lifts, but I haven't gained a whole lot of weight and I am definitly pron to overtrain and also with the ester creatine 12wk on 4wk cycle what can you take for the 4 wks?