[GO_OUTSIDE!]

This is long.
Ok, so I came to this forum to research pro hormones, to cheat my way to more mass. You got me. I believed the hype, I thought steroids would be the fountain of youth. I thought I needed them to make gains in mass, recovery time and joint health. This forum has got me thinking otherwise.
Apparently, I need to try harder to reach my full genetic potential before I start using steroids. Maybe I can reach my goals without them. I hope so, because it seems so ****ing complicated that I would'nt have time to train from all the research.
So here I am 36yrs old, 6'0" 185lbs I've been trying to build muscle for my entire life. I started lifting weights when I was 17 when I was 6'0" and 145lbs. I have tried weight gainers and protein powders, all manner of GNC supplements, I have trained every day and not at all. Until 3 yrs ago my max weight was 155 lbs.
My workouts had always been 3-4 sets, 15 reps increasing the weight along the way. Always the most I could possibly lift. 3-5 days a week 1hr/day. I was always ripped and skinny.
I ate as much as I could, probably not the best diet, lots of beer.
Now I lift 3 days/wk 1.5 hour/day, each muscle group once a week. 4-5 sets 10,8,5,3,1reps. Till failure. Once or twice a week I'll throw in some cardio for fun. Now I am starting to gain.
I eat less than I used to 3 square homecooked meals a day, and i sleep more 10hrs night. I take muscle milk first thing in the morning and again in the afternoon after a workout. At night I drink some sustained release protein.
I have tried everything, right now I supplement with:
ISS Prominoplus (started this week)
Higher power ZMA
gnc mega man multi
vitamin C 2grams/day
vitamin E 400iu/day
Flax seed oil
How do I refine my training to reach my potential? Where do I start?
Please dont mention that F***ing search button. All it has done is keep me up past my bed time tracking down empty leads. Nice stickies though.

[noviceiron]

I was in the same boat a few years ago...

Right now I am 36, soon to be 37 but at 6' and about 20%bf I am 235lbs. How long have you been at it... continuously?

Regarding training, I have tried a lot of things but the one that I think works the best... DC training. If you need some info on it, go to intensemuscle.com (I think that is it) and look in the training forum. There should be a sticky with all the details. If you can't find it, I can get it to you.

Agreed with the searching thing. I hit that search button, but with all the results, you would be searching for a year through all the different forum topics and threads to find your answer. Some folks get bent when you post a similar topic... these folks don't understand that not everyone can start out as an expert.

Also, if you are only eating 3 meals a day, that will kill your gains. Eat more whole foods and less drinks and you will see more results. At 185lbs and 12%bf (I am just guessing) you would need to consume aprox 4000 calories, give or take depending on your daily caloric burn.

[mmowry]

Try cutting training to 3 days wk.3x6 for big multi movement lifts.ie bench,bent rows,deads,squats. Go 2x10 or 3x8 on accessory lifts ie shoulders,tris,bis.

You will build more strength and functional mass.High rep sets killed me and my gains.Also low to medium cardio(brisk walk or eliptical) for 20-30 min 3x/wk really helps in recovery and with growth hormone production.

Remember you grow outside of the gym so its lift eat and get rest.Best of luck to ya.

[Irish_Rogue]

If you are going for mass gains, stop the volume lifting mate. Low reps, very heavy. Diet is the key of all things. I know I hear everyone say here my diet is "spot on", if you are not gaining weight then your diet is not correct. At your weight I would suggest 3400-3600, adjust as you gain weight of course.
Hit each body part 2x a week, I hit chest 3x,s myself.

Best of luck

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

I tried the eat more approach for years, only difference it made was in my food bill (and I shat more).
Also, I have found that I make better strength gains when I give each major muscle group a full weeks rest. I know its not the fastest way to the top but, I overtrain easily. Hardgainer or something.
mmowry, are you suggesting I do fewer sets?
Thanks for the advice, i'll check out the DC training.
I wonder if the extra sleep I have been getting is why I am starting to gain. I hope its not just fat. My weights are going up after all.

[mmowry]

Yes my first few years of training I used the 5x5 3 lifts per body part and 4-5 day split.Now with more muscle mass it takes longer to recover.I do less sets NEVER to failure and I only lift 3 days/wk.

When I start going heavy with less set rep it takes longer for the Central Nervous System to recover.When you do less sets/reps with heavier weight you get less sarcoplastic sp? hypertrophy but much more functional strength from my experience.Because big and strong is what Im looking for.Good luck.

Well if the weights are going up in time there will be a coresponding size increase also.The sleep is definately helping the more sleep the more repair.

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

How come NEVER to failure? I thought that was one of the keys to forcing our bodies to make ourselves stronger. Something about if the body is capable of the work we ask of it, it doesnt need to change.
I was just trying to find some information on the failure bit and came across something else. What do you think of supplementing with digestive enzymes?
Oh, and according to "golds gym" they recommend going to failure and beyond, although I have tried alot of their recomendations without success.
Thanks for the advice.

[thesinner]

Originally Posted by GO_OUTSIDE!

How come NEVER to failure? I thought that was one of the keys to forcing our bodies to make ourselves stronger. Something about if the body is capable of the work we ask of it, it doesnt need to change.
I was just trying to find some information on the failure bit and came across something else. What do you think of supplementing with digestive enzymes?
Oh, and according to "golds gym" they recommend going to failure and beyond, although I have tried alot of their recomendations without success.
Thanks for the advice.

The bigger and stronger you get, the more fibrils break when you lift; you don't want to break as many as you can because the after you snapped so many, additional breaks produce lower hypertrophic responses. Eventually it gets to the point that this hypertrophic response is being used to repair 'unnecessary' fibrils you've snapped.

In contrast, training beyond failure has been perceived to give a hyperplastic response. Perhaps train to or beyond failure, but only on occasions.

As for digestive enzymes, I have had great success with them affecting DOMS. There's been some studies with bromelain showing results on DOMS, though I am aware as to how well controlled they were.

[mmowry]

Taking reps to failure overloads the cns thus much more recovery time necessary.Also your muscles repair quicker than your cns.
When going heavy your body still has to adapt because its not like its used to doing these particular moves daily.

The probiotics help to assimilate food nutrients into your system rather than passing partialy digested food in your stool.

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

What are DOMS?

[mmowry]

DOMS=delayed onset muscle soreness

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

Oh yeah, got that a plenty!
I tried something called prominoplus. It tweaks me out but it also gave me so much energy I couldnt wear myself out.
It damn near eliminated that DOMS crap also.
The rep says it has an ingredient called procosanoid that turns into a form of caffeinne in the body but, I've checked it out and dont see how. I'm waiting for them to get back to me, cause if the stuff is ok I'm going to start using it again at lower doses.
DC-dogcrap training?
Sounds like what I do with less sets and less rest time between sets. I usually wait as long as I can without cooling down 1-2 min. Is that too long?

[mmowry]

About 2 years ago I tried DC training for about 4 months and it fried me.
I think for this to work for me things would have had to be a whole lot more monitored in my life at the time(nutrition,rest,stress etc)
I like the principal but for those of us that have less than superhuman recovery it may be a little too much.Although if all things were in check and an enhancement protocol was in place it would be very effective.

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

Ive taken a week off so I'm well rested for a backpacking trip tommorrow, and I've still gained weight. UH OH. This could be a problem.
My father has been warning me for ten years about this.
I think its time to step up the cardio.
I guess I wont know till I get back and see what my lifts look like.
How do you measure body fat %? I need one of them pinchy measuring things huh?

[SoMdHunter]

I've found that the beer will also hinder progress. Leave the brews in the fridge for a few weeks. Makes a world of difference.

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

I just read that alcohol prevents protein synthesis for 24hrs.
?