[jeffas66]

...A kind of HRT, because doses are very low, but I wanted to ask you what you think about something like the plan below.

I'm already on low test doses for 6-8 months, and feel very well at 40. I don't really want to get much more mass (maybe 5-6 lbs, and stay very lean)

A link to show you how I look now (with stats) :
Jeffas66 pics

the plan :

w 1-13 Test enanth 120mg/w (0.5cc)
w 1-8 R long igf1 40mcg 3 x/w (after WO only)
w 5-13 50mg Proviron ed

w 14-26, 27-39 and 40-52...repeat

The only thing I could add is 1 or 2 short cycles/year , like PP+masteron or T Prop + win for 1 month...

Maybe I'm wrong, but with the igf, no need for hcg/PCT (I tried this summer, and it was incredible to recover quickly the size of my nuts...) . I also read the thread about igf 3 x/week and I'd like to try it (no sides, slow growth).

Not sure about how to use the proviron also, but I took this stuff 1 time : it was very nice for sex drive, and I have a ****load of powder my supplier gave me (didn't order it), so...

I do'nt know if anyone did already something like this, but any advice will be appreciated...

[B5150]

Originally Posted by jeffas66

...A kind of HRT, because doses are very low, but I wanted to ask you what you think about something like the plan below.

I'm already on low test doses for 6-8 months,

You're basically running a self administered TRT/HRT. Do you have any bloodwork to back you up? Was this at one time supervised by a physician? There are issues of Estrogen, hematocrit (thick blood) and PSA that at the very least you need to monitor.

JMHO

[jeffas66]

Originally Posted by B5150

You're basically running a self administered TRT/HRT. Do you have any bloodwork to back you up? Was this at one time supervised by a physician? There are issues of Estrogen, hematocrit (thick blood) and PSA that at the very least you need to monitor.

JMHO

You're totally right.

I did a bloodwork 8 months ago, that's one of the reasons why I'm "on" HRT. But it's self administered...In France, praticians are all against this, and even creatine or amino acid are scary for them

My T levels were at the very low "normal" range, 0.3μg/dl if I remember well (normal range were from 0.25 to 1.1 for the lab).
Hematocrit was at 42% before "HRT". I did 1 time a cycle with T and Eq, and it never get over 48% (after 12 weeks).
PSA was in the normal range, and I don't remember about estrogen, i think it was not tested (I can't vouch for this because I don't have the results here : I'm at work...).

The only thing who was a bit higher than normal were SGPT/SGOT, but triglycerides were low and gamma GT very low, so I don't thing it was any pb with my liver.

Does my plan looks crazy to you ? If I begin, I think I'll do a bloodwork at least 2 times/year...

[Rostam]

Originally Posted by jeffas66

You're totally right.

I did a bloodwork 8 months ago, that's one of the reasons why I'm "on" HRT. But it's self administered...In France, praticians are all against this, and even creatine or amino acid are scary for them

I'm sure if you look well you can find some who are specialized in HRT. Of course they have to trust you that you will not inform or charge your local insurance company (securite social) for/about that. That means YOU have to pay for everything , visit to your GP or specialist, blood works and of course treatments.

[klugman]

what are you doing to protect your prostate???

[jeffas66]

Originally Posted by klugman

what are you doing to protect your prostate???

Did you say that about the proviron ?

I do nothing really special...
I take a multivit (now Adam) with saw palmetto, Nettle root and lycopene. With also some added Nettle root on and off.

Never had before "DHT like" sides (I have all my hair, and no pb with my urinal tract). PSA was in the normal range in all the bloodworks I did before...

[klugman]

Originally Posted by jeffas66

Did you say that about the proviron ?

I do nothing really special...
I take a multivit (now Adam) with saw palmetto, Nettle root and lycopene. With also some added Nettle root on and off.

Never had before "DHT like" sides (I have all my hair, and no pb with my urinal tract). PSA was in the normal range in all the bloodworks I did before...

Yes, the proviron is of some concern.

I'm just paranoid. At 40, I would think that it is better to be overly safe than sorry.

Maybe I'm just over reacting...

[FYI777]

Jeffas66 why do they have Andriol,Pantestone and/or other brands of test undecanoate available in France for? If I'm mistaken please correct me tho.

[jeffas66]

Originally Posted by FYI777

Jeffas66 why do they have Andriol,Pantestone and/or other brands of test undecanoate available in France for? If I'm mistaken please correct me tho.

The oral Test you talk about is for mainly for hypogonadism (congenital...). There's no really prescriptions for men below 60 in France, at least with a "normal" practitioner...
At my age, my test level is considered as a bit low, but no real reasons to put me on HRT.

An article in french to show you how hysteric are the journalists, the government and the national health service when talking about HRT for the 40-60 years men :
http://www.lanutrition.fr/Le-dopage-...-a-705-90.html
(title translation : the old men doping...)

[FYI777]

Can't read French but I believe you Jeffas66.I also thought maybe France was not so uptight and looser. What about that Andorran place between France and Spain?

[jeffas66]

Originally Posted by FYI777

Can't read French but I believe you Jeffas66.I also thought maybe France was not so uptight and looser. What about that Andorran place between France and Spain?

The problem is not (for me) to find the gear for my "HRT".

It's only to find a MD who would hear me and understand me. They look at you as if you were crazy, when you only ask testing for T levels in a bloodwork (usual bloodworks are only for hematocrit levels, SGPT/SGOT, lipid levels, PSA when you're over 40, and so...but not hormones levels)

I found some praticians in Belgium for example, but with the price of only 1 consultation, I could get the stuff I need for 1 or 2 years (with powders).

I can't complain because we don't have to pay for anything with our national health program (only a small part of the drugs we have to buy), but it's a pain in the ass if you search for something not "usual".

I know I shouldn't say anything about this, but I already had very low T levels before beginning to train with weights (and also to be on juice). In fact, my natural "off" test levels are about the same as 6 years ago. But 6 years ago , my libido was very low (at 34) and I was tired all the time. I don't feel it's normal, and I don't want to feel again like this...

[FYI777]

I have relatives in Austria and I know there it's not that great also.

What I mean't to ask though was "did you ever try the test undec. ester for HRT purposes? I hear good and bad about it,one good is the unnecessary injection part.

[FYI777]

You mentioned your test levels were low to begin with,isn't that considered hypogonadism?

In your plan you talk of "R long igf1" and I can't comment on that for PCT/HRT purposes,but me myself I'd rather go with the tried and true HCG/serm route first.I think you should have had a blood test after using the igf and see if it actually did raise test levels.You mentioned it reversed shrinkage usually that means a reversal of shutdown.
On a side note HCG should raise test all by itself maybe a blood test before and after would tell.

One final note screw those doctors thinking you are crazy,it's our life and we have that inalienable right to do with it as we please.

[jeffas66]

Originally Posted by FYI777

You mentioned your test levels were low to begin with,isn't that considered hypogonadism?

In your plan you talk of "R long igf1" and I can't comment on that for post cycle therapy/HRT purposes,but me myself I'd rather go with the tried and true HCG/serm route first.I think you should have had a blood test after using the igf and see if it actually did raise test levels.You mentioned it reversed shrinkage usually that means a reversal of shutdown.
On a side note HCG should raise test all by itself maybe a blood test before and after would tell.

One final note screw those doctors thinking you are crazy,it's our life and we have that inalienable right to do with it as we please.

Thanks for your advice.

I never tried test undecanoate...can't try everything...maybe next time ...if only I had a prescription...

My test levels were actually low, but not enough to consider this as "hypogonadism". I 'm in the normal range, even for an endocrinologist.

I believe you should also have something like a micro penis and balls like hazel nuts, to get only 250mg of test every month here...

I never had a blood test right after hcg ans/or igf1, but the only thing I can say is that both are VERY efficient for me to reverse shrinkage and help my libido. I didn't really except this from the igf1, so I was really impressed with the immediate effects at this particular point of vue.

[FYI777]

So igf by itself is goodor do you mean together with hcg?

By the way how do you keep your midsection so lean?