PP/Xmass/Trn/Zol - over the hill stack?

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    PP/Xmass/Trn/Zol - over the hill stack?


    Tis the season of change and time for another round. I have begun an interesting stack of components. Hoping for mass gains with a dry finish. I doubt if I will have the time to update on a regular basis due to the time of the year and other duties. But I felt others may want to know a little about this stack and its results, so I will make a decent attempt of keeping an account. All things are in order from pre-loaded supps to a (SERM/ATD/ACTIVATE/DHEA/FENU/PGH) PCT program. As always clean bulking with 40/40/20 ratios and carb loading 1-2 days a week. Letting the body tell me what it needs. I am on the second day administering to the rat ...

    PP/X-mass 2-3caps ea ED wk 1-4
    TRN 4-6mg wk 3-6
    Zol 150-200mg wk 2-6

    I may experiment with carb restriction during the last week or so of the cycle but NOT during PCT.

    Pressing ON...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoky
    Tis the season of change and time for another round. I have begun an interesting stack of components. Hoping for mass gains with a dry finish. I doubt if I will have the time to update on a regular basis due to the time of the year and other duties. But I felt others may want to know a little about this stack and its results, so I will make a decent attempt of keeping an account. All things are in order from pre-loaded supps to a (SERM/ATD/ACTIVATE/DHEA/FENU/PGH) PCT program. As always clean bulking with 40/40/20 ratios and carb loading 1-2 days a week. Letting the body tell me what it needs. I am on the second day administering to the rat ...

    PP/X-mass 2-3caps ea ED wk 1-4
    TRN 4-6mg wk 3-6
    Zol 150-200mg wk 2-6

    I may experiment with carb restriction during the last week or so of the cycle but NOT during PCT.

    Pressing ON...
    I don't think 4 orals is a good idea. Run two together or run one for 3 weeks and another for three weeks with a third thrown in weeks 3-6.
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    There is one Methyl in the stack from my understanding. Big plus there. Dr. D I believe had written something to the effect of multi-oral doesn't always mean 2x the toxicity as well. I won't attempt to quote him. I am hitting all support supps with the same tenacity so as to not miss a lick. As I read, TRN has had good anecdotals. As I know none of them personaly, but feel good about the board general population as opinions and advice go. I am also looking to keep dosing down but achieve a synergy. I feel comfortable with it but will adjust as my body tells me, up or down. I might add that I look at it as the time frame I will consider adding a component. The Zol may be delayed if I feel the need, as an example. So here I am at the start with three good weeks to evaluate and adjust if needed. I tend to go with the cycles of the body and how it adapts. I have and am still considering moving the Zol back 2 weeks and extending to 8 weeks. I do like the finish it lends but as I consider TRN I may not need it yet. I had considered TST as a component as well but chose not. This choice seems to provide the best combo with low methyl based on current stock and a bulking cycle.

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    Today is the fifth day of PP/Xmass. Nothing notable at this time, but anxious to hit the weights later in the day. I have been packing the calories with a jump of approx 3 pounds since the start. Starting this week I expect to hit the weights hard and heavier than I have been to this point. As I am expecting things to start kicking in.
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    Yesterdays workout went well. Stamina is up, as I felt like I could have kept going. Recovery was better than expected. Look forward to the next visit. In a nutshell it's coming on. By weeks end I should be in full swing. All systems are coming online. Hungry most of the time as well. Smooth water to this point.

    Pressing On...
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    Subcribed

    Good luck Smoky!

    Let us know of any problems you may encounter, such as hair lost, prostate, HBP, ext. & what you use to counter the effects. We have to watch these things closer as we get alittle older.

    OUT
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    Thanks for the support!

    I feel great overall. Moods are just as good. Plumbing is fully operational and running at normal tolerances. BP is stable and even my sleep has been slightly improved. I am in good health with no broken bones or surgery yet to date. I believe this lifestyle has taken good care of me over the years. Believe it! With various incidents/accidents along the way I am in pretty good shape. My strength has kept me going and minimized my injuries over the years. Not to say I don't have any wear and tear. Time takes its toll on everyone. Just don't have to take it laying down.

    It appears I am bloating some, but feeling fuller as well. It was predicted to be a wet start with a dry finish. So far so good.

    Pressing ON...
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    Smoky,
    Keep us informed as to progress, body weight increase, lifting increases, asthetic improvements, mood, energy.......etc.
    Also, even if you are not seeing alot of feedback here keep posting because we are reading.
    I am curious, is it the Xmass that is causing the retension ? The last one I ran was PP and I had no retension.......
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    Hey Smoky, have u used pp before as a stand alone, yea I,m am fighting that age thing with all I got, never give in !!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipdnTxs
    Hey Smoky, have u used pp before as a stand alone, yea I,m am fighting that age thing with all I got, never give in !!!!!
    No I have not.

    Life sometimes can Just hang tough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardgain
    Smoky,
    Keep us informed as to progress, body weight increase, lifting increases, asthetic improvements, mood, energy.......etc.
    Also, even if you are not seeing alot of feedback here keep posting because we are reading.
    I am curious, is it the Xmass that is causing the retension ? The last one I ran was PP and I had no retension.......
    Most report very little if any retention from PP but the Xmass (MaxLMG) is a bit different. Hence one of the reasons I chose to stack them. It (Xmass) was also designed to be stacked from what I have researched on it as well. Being non-methyl for that reason as well. Neither are reported to be as aggressive as SD, so we will see how it stacks. My diet was off a bit for two days which I think affected the situation as well.
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    Time for an update. Body weight is up about 10-12 pounds with some bloating. I decided to increase PP and Xmass to 3 caps a day. Skin seems a bit more oily and the scalp is a bit itchy. Retention is with me with out doubt. I am prepared to deal with it if it gets bad enough. I figure a little Adex @ .5mg eod would be a place to start. I am attempting to modify the diet some to see if I can have an effect. The appetite is in full swing as I could eat everything in site or so I feel anyway. Since I increased the dosage sleep patterns have changed. Harder falling asleep and staying asleep. No other sides to report at this time.

    Pressing ON...
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    Body weight up 10-12 pounds is good, since you are retaining water what part of that increase is lean mass would you say ? Just a simple educated guess.....

    Also, how is your strength along with this weight gain ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardgain
    Body weight up 10-12 pounds is good, since you are retaining water what part of that increase is lean mass would you say ? Just a simple educated guess.....

    Also, how is your strength along with this weight gain ?
    Really hard to say how much is LBM. Feeling fuller overall. If I picked up 3 pounds I would feel lucky. The weight came on very fast as I cranked up the calories. Strength increases at this point are nothing notable. Stamina and recovery are improving as are the pumps. Last workout produced incredible pumps and a fullness that is still with me. Next week is when I expect the strength to increase notably..

    Pressing ON...
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    Bloat is quite apparent at this point. I have decided to administer anastrazole starting @ .5mg EOD to address the issue.
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    Weighed in this morning at 205, that is about a 15 lb. increase. Feeling pretty good still. I am adding the TRN today at 4mg. Getting pumps via simple activities but so far nothing as wicked as a SD pump.

    Pressing ON...
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    Todays workout showed strength increases in all movements. No problems with BP, systems running normal. Hawthorne and Celery Seed are my bread and butter there. I notice the wheels get a good pump going early in the day and stay that way as well. Only look forward to the next workout.
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    Smoky,
    How goes it ? 4 days not post , what up ? I need a sit rep..........
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    Weigh in this morning was 206 lbs. All things are moving along. No sides to report. This week I will either increase the TRN or consider adding ZOL. I am leaning towards bumping the TRN. The TRN seems to add a level of hardness some what similar to ZOL. I have been running 1mg Adex EOD for the bloat with good results. Hope to stop the Adex after next week. Energy and strength has been so abundant I am tossing in some additional light work on off days.(currently running a 3 day split) Curious to see if this puts me into an over trained state or more growth. BP has remained stable with support supps. At this point I find PP/Xmass a great bulking stack with little to no sides for me.

    Overall Mood - GREAT!
    Libido - no change yet
    Sleep - getting less
    Strength - came on end of 2nd week
    Weight Gain - EASY! Big appetite
    Pumps - OUTSTANDING!
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    Cycle update, no problems to report and still feeling great. BP remaining under control. I have increased TRN to 6mg ED holding off on the ZOL at this time. I have been tweaking the diet instinctively with good results. I have restricted carbs the past two days. Weigh in this morning was 201 lbs. No problems with energy levels during that time. I did not eliminate carbs only restricted them considerably. Today the carbs are back. I decided to take advantage of a board sponsorís sale and picked up some T3 and have begun @ 25mcg planning to go 3-4 weeks ramping up in 25mcg increments. If all goes well I plan to top @ 100mcg then taper off. I am considering adding Alb/Ket as well but much later. Perhaps during PCT for the metabolism boosting and anti-catabolic characteristics. Still studying... I believe I can instinctively manipulate my diet and training to achieve my goals. Of course with a little help from modern chemistry. I highly recommend all learn to train and diet instinctively. It is less stressful and I think more productive. We all have natural cycles that create conditions within us. These can be sleep patterns or lack there of, or a need for added water. Most of us know when we are thirsty and not just desiring a soft drink. Discover the same level of awareness within yourself concerning your training and diet. The body talks to us,. we only need to listen. Donít be afraid to adapt and adjust. Think of it like surfing, finding the sweet spot and riding it for all it is worth. I find one can reach their goals more efficiently and with less stress to boot. If you feel the need pursue it, just listen to your body along the way.
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    Post Tale of the Tape


    It has now been three full weeks with PP/Xmass and one week of TRN. Took some cold measurements prior to workout so here's the poop.

    weight +10#
    Bicep +1/2"
    Forearm +1/4" (no direct work)
    Chest +3/4"
    Waist +3/4"
    Thigh +1/2"
    Calf +1/2"

    Mirror reports:

    Fuller look
    More Definition
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    Smoky,
    Looking good so far, do you think that the +3/4" waist is bloat ?
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    First off let me correct a minor error on my part. Waist was +1/2". It is now only +1/4" from starting stats. I attribute most of it to bloat. The Adx works very effectively controlling it @ 1mg ED. Still feeling good to this point. BP is good with some rise in the systolic but reasonable. This did not show a significant rise till TRN was increased to 6mg. The T3 is now @ 50mcg moving to 75 tomorrow. I beleive the T3 is effecting the BP as well. Body temp showing no rise in temp. Immediately upon waking it was 97.7 via digital device. I should state the I have abstained from cardio to this point. I find it very easy to eat everything in sight but restrain myself and keep things as clean as possible. Weigh in this morning was 200#. The mirror tells me I am dropping BF. Sleep has become harder to get. Falling asleep has grown difficult to say the least. I already have irratic sleep patterns, so they have only gotten worse. I have ordered some REM-R3G to address this issue. I beta tested their product with great results so I am anxious to see how it will perform within this cycle. I expect it to arrive tomorrow.

    Pressing ON...
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    Best of luck Smokey! Looking forward to your results.
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    Yesterday was not a good day. Lack of quality sleep caught up to me and I basicaly unplugged for the day and slept as much as possible. Got up to feed but not much more. Hopefully energy levels will rise today. Stopped the Xmass/PP today after 4 weeks, and started Zol @100mg. T3 also bumped to 75 today as well. I tried a bit of cardio this morning but the shins started tightening up very quickly, so it was abreviated. The effect was nowhere near as severe, as with SD. I'll give 'er another whirl in the am. I did get the REM-R3G and look forward to any assistance it can provide with getting quality sleep. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it cause of your age, it just takes a bit more effort. Please be aware this statement does not take into account any medical conditions that may be present as we age. Take the proper precautions or abstain as conditions may require. It is not as easy as it was 20 years ago but still doable. Watch the macros and be as complete as possible. Maximize your efforts with efficiency and intelligent planning to reap the benefits with minimal expenditure.

    Pressing ON...
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    smoky just wonderind how you are doing the trn bump I was rolling along fine at 4mg then bumped up to 6 and the sides really kicked in for me. blood pressure, hair loss etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup
    smoky just wonderind how you are doing the trn bump I was rolling along fine at 4mg then bumped up to 6 and the sides really kicked in for me. blood pressure, hair loss etc.
    Things are going well. Some rise in in the upper number after bumping to 6mg which I mentioned earlier. I notice nothing like that of which you make reference.
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    Midway through the 5th week and here is an update. I was getting pretty lethargic during the 4th week of PP/Xmass, but I feel that has passed since halting both. I am now pushing 6mg TRN and 150mg ZOL which I feel will bump to 200 later this week. Also have bumped T3 to 100mcg which I plan to hold there for about 3 weeks, then tapering down at that point. So far things are on track. The REM-R3G supplement seems to be helping me with quality of sleep. I have been raising training intensity and lowering volume with good results. A bit early to truly say but so far I like the TRN/ZOL combo.

    Pressing ON...
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    smoky when do you take your t3? I have noticed in the past that the t3 makes me and alot of my friends sleepy so I usually take it before bed
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup
    smoky when do you take your t3? I have noticed in the past that the t3 makes me and alot of my friends sleepy so I usually take it before bed
    I dose first thing in the morning prior to any fluid or food intake. Wait 45-60 minutes before ingesting anything. Research has indicated this to be the best as I can tell.
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    Status Report:

    I was not feeling my best for a few days this week. Very lethargic and somewhat of a unstable stomach. This has passed and all systems are up. Lost a couple of workouts but I am making up for it. Since the addition of T3 I have converted to a minor cutting diet. Hit the scale this morning at 196 with no noticable muscle loss, just the pants getting lose. Even though I have lifted most of my life I have never been lean enough to show abs. Well I am on my way as the definition creeps in. Not sure how long it will take but I am on a mission. It is not as easy to manipulate as it was 20 years ago but it does still work. Muscles at 20 something was easy in comparison to now. Pay attention to the details for they matter more now than they ever did.

    Pressing ON...
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    Weighed in this morning at 195. Insomnia is a major problem with TRN. Coupled with the T3, has raised the heart rate so much that I need to slow down and keep super sets and the like to a minimum. I have been dealing with this by taking longer rests between sets. This allows me to keep the intensity up but keep the cardio effect to a minimum. The REM R3G is not improving my sleep patterns any but I do notice less muscle soreness than I usually have. I am beginning to question the ZOL. I have previously used Prostan @ 100mg and found it good for me, great for hardening and drying. Heck with the Prostan I got the red eyes, but not with ZOL. Perhaps there is synergy going on here. I am running 200mg ZOL and dont believe I am getting the same or similar result. As for the TRN, with a cutting diet it appears I am getting some vascularity in the legs and arms like never before. Of course I must say I didn't notice this till I worked out in shorts and just happen to run my hand over the leg. The hair obviously hides it from plain view. Of course I have that lovely winter white thing going on as well. Can't wait to open the pool for that reason alone. I am curious what TRN will do under an abundance of calories. If I don't consume enough carbs prior to WO I can sure tell. T3 is tolerable at this point. Appear to be leaning out but am unsure as what to expect being the first encounter. Can anyone comment on T3 and post cycle therapy? It seems to not be the thing to do. Plenty going on in the threads with Alb/Keto/Clen but what about T3 and post cycle therapy? Wouldn't the lack of anabolic support be too catabolic to muscle tissue?

    Pressing ON...
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    Just Another Update:

    I have bumped to 125mcg of T3 and believe I now notice a difference. Allot warmer and sweating more at night. The pants are continuing to get loser. I have hit the last notch on the belt and it is not enough. I'll have to get a new one if this goes where I want it to. I have added TST to the mix as I feel like I am standing still with the TRN/ZOL. I also will drop the ZOL as I feel it isn't benefiting me any at this point. Droping it should answer that. Libido is slipping and appears to be some shrinkage but minimal at this point. I am keeping the weights heavy and still running the 3 day split. I started carb depletion yesterday as well. Hungry none the less.

    Pressing ON...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoky
    Just Another Update:

    I have bumped to 125mcg of T3 and believe I now notice a difference. Allot warmer and sweating more at night. The pants are continuing to get loser. I have hit the last notch on the belt and it is not enough. I'll have to get a new one if this goes where I want it to. I have added TST to the mix as I feel like I am standing still with the TRN/ZOL. I also will drop the ZOL as I feel it isn't benefiting me any at this point. Droping it should answer that. Libido is slipping and appears to be some shrinkage but minimal at this point. I am keeping the weights heavy and still running the 3 day split. I started carb depletion yesterday as well. Hungry none the less.

    Pressing ON...
    What do you expect of the TRN/ZOL combo that it isn't delivering?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    What do you expect of the TRN/ZOL combo that it isn't delivering?
    I guess the shortest answer would be a drier harder effect. I base this on previous prostan usage. Granted I had not run it with TRN, so I am eliminating the ZOL to find out what it was doing if anything. My biggest concern I suppose right now is maintaining the proper anabolic state for the T3 and muscle preservation.. Two more weeks to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoky
    Can anyone comment on T3 and post cycle therapy? It seems to not be the thing to do. Plenty going on in the threads with Alb/Keto/Clen but what about T3 and post cycle therapy? Wouldn't the lack of anabolic support be too catabolic to muscle tissue?

    Pressing ON...
    Grunt in your research did you find anything relating to this?? I know you understand T3 fairly well as I have followed your logs and gleaned allot from you as well. Sure seems to be a NO-NO but I am curious if anyone has looked at it. Or is it there are better choices in Alb/Keto? I know that Dr. D states he has been running thyroid implementation for years. Perhaps he has or could comment on the subject. I am sure he has bumped into a cycle or two along the way to a better thyroid.

    EDIT: let me add I dont mean to be cutting during PCT just maintaining the metabolism so to speak, figuring it should provide a rich environment for hormone production.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoky
    Grunt in your research did you find anything relating to this?? I know you understand T3 fairly well as I have followed your logs and gleaned allot from you as well. Sure seems to be a NO-NO but I am curious if anyone has looked at it. Or is it there are better choices in Alb/Keto? I know that Dr. D states he has been running thyroid implementation for years. Perhaps he has or could comment on the subject. I am sure he has bumped into a cycle or two along the way to a better thyroid.

    EDIT: let me add I dont mean to be cutting during post cycle therapy just maintaining the metabolism so to speak, figuring it should provide a rich environment for hormone production.

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    I am only a practitioner of the imaginery art of BodyBuilding_FU. No credit taken nor deserved. All opinions are just that, opinions. Never to be taken seriously, for even I know I don't know jack. But perhaps I can learn along the way... share a story or two...

    Dr. D says thyroid hormones help even recovery in PCT quicker. I concur. Thyroid basically makes EVERYTHING faster. As long as you keep the dosage low, you should be OK. I myself am extending T3 2 weeks into PCT, one at 25mcg ED, and the other one at 12.5 mcg ED. I start my thyroid PCT during that week, as 12.5mcg isn't suppressive. I believe the amount of T3 naturally produced by the body averages 24.6mcg daily. (don't quote me on that figure, it's from memory and could be wrong).

    No matter, yes T3 at low doses can be beneficial in most situations. It is used in bulking at 37.5 - 50 mcg with AAS also, although T2 is said to be superior in this instance... Another story, that.
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    One more week to go. I am tapering down the T3. I will run 12.5mcg during post cycle therapy in an attempt to benefit the metabolism. Strength has maintained considering I have been in a caloric deficit. It's been five days since dropping ZOL and I do not notice its absence. TST/TRN has a nice anabolic feel at this point. The TST seemed to make a difference with the libido for a few days. But only slightly. All else is stable...

    Pressing ON...
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    Smoky, Have you done any bloodwork at this point? I would be curious to know if a cycle of this length and combination of multiple hormones will/has seriously impacted your numbers. Having been watching this since you started and running some overlapping compounds myself, I am encouraged to extend my cycle plan .............
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardgain
    Smoky, Have you done any bloodwork at this point? I would be curious to know if a cycle of this length and combination of multiple hormones will/has seriously impacted your numbers. Having been watching this since you started and running some overlapping compounds myself, I am encouraged to extend my cycle plan .............
    I start post cycle therapy tomorrow and no tests as of this time. Hope to find some more time to post later. Quite busy here, dealing with allot of issues. More later...

    Pressing ON...
  

  
 

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