Thinking about HRT......
- 02-11-2006, 07:19 PM
Thinking about HRT......
Been checking out all the "legal" avenues for test...jeez, they are expensive. Looks like about $385 for bloodwork, $190 for the consultation, $50 for ???, and then somewhere around $125-$175 for 12 week supply of test cyp. I'm not sure how much they prescribe to pin a week, probably not near as much as someone who did not have a script would use. I just wonder if it will be worth it.
- 02-12-2006, 10:31 AM
dang. I went to my Dr. got bloodwork, paid $20 for the co-pay, and pay $50 for 10 weeks of test cyp. Most is covered by my insurance. Might want to go that route if you think you have low test..if you are trying just to get legal juice, then you'll pay some $$ for it.
- 02-12-2006, 10:39 AM
02-12-2006, 11:00 AM
I'm going to check out some Doctors on my health plan, I think these online deals are way off the board with their prices. Then they probably low dose you.
02-12-2006, 11:18 AM
02-12-2006, 12:03 PM
Have you noticed any changes in your body composition yet? What are the expected results?Originally Posted by tattoopierced1
02-12-2006, 01:01 PM
at 100mg my test levels are still low per my last bloodwork. I am going in on Friday to get more work done to see where my levels are. I am thinking he is going to up me to 200mg per week. Off of 100mg per week, I did notice an increase in my sex drive, other than that, nothing...but my test levels are still low, so after we alter the dosage, i'll report back.
02-12-2006, 01:14 PM
02-12-2006, 02:12 PM
After getting out of trade school, I am now working a new job that has really good health insurance.
I also just had more bloodwork done after being AAS free for 9+ months now. My TT is only 350 and FT was really low, don't have numbers atm. My body doesn't show it though and by looking at me, you would never think that I had low-average T levels. Due to my training style and diet, I try and be over cautious about overtraining and the like which is and has payed off greatly. Right now I sit about 255-260 and and have somewhat visible abs when relaxed....I'm a natural ecto, but have the advantage of having a large bone frame. But being AAS free for this long, I'm slowly losing LBM due to genetics and for the time being I really don't care much as I think I'd be happier with a smaller physique, say 240 or so.
Anyways, to make a long story short , I went to an endo last week and he said that I would be able to get on HRT if I chose to do so. I told him yes, but only if I could get injections and do them myself. He said no problem and I think I may start it up here real soon. He said something like I would only have to pay around 100-150 month for continous bloodwork, and cyp injections. Other ancillaries if needed would require a co-pay of 20 each or so...not too bad if you ask me.
Has anybody ever heard of a younger guy getting HRT when they are still within hte normal range for T levels? I just don't want to mess up a good thing and have this doc get in trouble or whatever.
02-12-2006, 02:14 PM
oh, and just to clarify, I'm not using this for personal stash, I'm doing this in order for me to get my T right around 1000ng/ml...that would be totally worth it for myself.
02-12-2006, 02:53 PM
I think 350 is kind of low for someone your age. I believe the doctor would be correct in offering you HRT if you so desired. I'd like to get my body weight down around 190-200, but I don't want to lose any muscle, actually add more and lose some bodyfat.
02-12-2006, 02:57 PM
Well, that would be cool then. It would be so nice to be able to eat less calories each day and workout more w/o worrying myself to death about overtraining and things. I have to eat around 5500 cals each day to try and keep as much LBM as possible and that of course keeps adding to the waistline....especially when I cannot workout very much due to OT'ing. It's like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't...lol.
02-12-2006, 03:01 PM
I think those are some realistic goals. You would do nicely if you go the HRT route as do all men. It will really help with building LBM and losing fat...these things are sometimes taken for granted when looking at other young guys or guys that have naturally healthy T levels in general.Originally Posted by delta314
02-12-2006, 03:49 PM
02-14-2006, 11:23 AM
350 is low. My level was 475 before I started HRT, but I'm old enough to be your dad. Still, at your age I would exhaust all alternatives before starting HRT. It’s important to know that test levels can fluctuate radically. They can be affected by any kind of illness, change in diet, sleep patterns or training. There is a book about hormone control through diet. I'm sorry but I cannot remember the name. I'm sure you'll find a lot of information on the net.Originally Posted by lifted
Also, USPLabs has a supp called Powerfull. I think it raises test levels without negative sides. I'm on a transdermal test cream (200 mg/day) which is much less potent than injections. After 10 weeks on Powerfull, my total test jumped to 1711.
Running a cycle is one thing, but committing to HRT at your age is a major decision – one that you have to be sure of.
02-14-2006, 11:32 AM
So, are you making gains on that dose? You cycle on and off in conjuction with HRT?Originally Posted by tattoopierced1
02-14-2006, 11:57 AM
no, i dont use HRT for "gains" I use it to feel normal, not tired, etc.. Sure things are a bit easier in the gym now that my test levels are in the low normal range, but that isnt why I use HRT for the gains. If I want to see more gains than my diet is providing, then I'll use gear. If you dont need HRT, there is no point in trying to get it just to get dr. prescribed test to make "gains". If you arent making gains naturally, then there is something wrong with your diet. And yes I have used in the past, made good gains while on HRT and gear.
02-14-2006, 03:31 PM
I definitely want to feel better and not always feels run down. But I was hoping that with test injections, I would also get some good gains. Is that not the case?
02-14-2006, 03:38 PM
No, it is the case......at 200mg of test, it's like 5x the normal amount produced (not sure of the #, but it's a lot....)....so do the math.
02-14-2006, 03:41 PM
02-14-2006, 04:02 PM
02-14-2006, 04:03 PM
100-1 says you get the patch, which will do minimal....no doc is just gonna give you a bottle of test bro...sorry.
02-14-2006, 04:17 PM
There are quite a few places that will give you a script for test cyp. I've checked out about ten of them. I spoke to one on the phone yesterday and he said a common script is 200mg tesy cyp injections once a week for 10 weeks on, 4 off, and repeat.
02-14-2006, 09:16 PM
HRT is meant to restore your levels. Were you able to gain when you were young?Originally Posted by delta314
Personally I wouldn't do cycles of cyp for HRT. I'm on a transdermal that doesn't need to be cycled, and my levels are high.
02-14-2006, 10:06 PM
cyp isnt cycled either. And JKurz, Drs will give you bottles of test as mine let me choose which I wanted. HRT is for LIFE...what is so hard to understand...you dont cycle it, it becomes a part of your lifestyle....also, the transdermal does work for some individuals, so pigeon holing it isnt the thing to do.
02-14-2006, 10:24 PM
What you say makes sense. If cyp is administered in low doses, then why should it need to be cycled?Originally Posted by tattoopierced1
I suppose each doctor has his preference. Mine told me that injections would need to be cycled because they deliver more than transdermal. I had never run anything at less than 500mgs/wk so I figured he knew what he was talking about. However, the transdermal he put me on sent my total test to 1711 in only 4 months. My LH dropped so I had to lower my daily dose and run HCG. Remarkably my estradiol didn't change much.
I have to have another blood test in March.
My first choice would have been injection. The cream takes forever to dry and its application is time consuming.
Last edited by colkurtz_spf; 02-14-2006 at 10:43 PM.
02-15-2006, 06:28 AM
02-15-2006, 06:41 AM
High serum levels of estrogen also trick the brain into thinking that enough testosterone is being produced, further slowing the natural production of testosterone. This happens when estrogen saturates testosterone receptors in the hypothalamus region of the brain. The saturated hypothalamus then stops sending out a hormone to the pituitary gland to stimulate secretion of luteinizing hormone that the gonads require to produce testosterone. High estrogen can thus shut down the normal testicular production of testosterone
02-15-2006, 07:22 AM
The book is Titled "Natural Hormonal Enhancement" by Rob Faigin. It's a great read and a real eye opener backed buy numerous scientific studies. I've been training and eating using the guidlines outlined in the books and have had great results making gains like never before. I'm 46 and thought about HRT but I'm thinking I'll save HRT for later in life when I really need it. In early fall I did an SD cycle with all the proper PCT. At the completion of PCT my nads were so shut down I was thinking I screwed myself for life. Since I started the NHE program things have really turned around. My morning lumber is back big time. Making some really solid gains in the gym, sleeping better and able to lose a little body fat while putting on lean mass with out all the negative sides of some kind of cycle.Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf
In no way am I connected to making money off of this book. It's just really good and has changed my life.
02-15-2006, 09:00 AM
Thanks! That's the book. Have you done any bloodwork since you've been on the diet? If so, what were the results?Originally Posted by xr650r
02-15-2006, 09:26 AM
02-15-2006, 09:33 AM
02-15-2006, 10:50 AM
02-15-2006, 05:13 PM
Yeah, let us know how it goes delta, good luck with everything.
colkurtz, sounds like the dermal is doing really well for you, that's awesome. If I could get levels like that, I guess I wouldn't mind it so much over the injects.
xr, thx for that link, I'm gonna check it out.
02-16-2006, 03:05 PM
My test was around 300 and I started 200mg wk of Test Cyp and it worked great.. but after a year didn't seem the same...but my levels were up around 900 which is were the Dr wanted...right now I'm not sure where they are..I just got bloodwork done and I started doing the Androgel pump...but I don't like it...going to get back to the injections
Insurance co pay for vial of Test $7.00...
02-16-2006, 05:06 PM
Your own testosterone converts to estrogen. Exogenous cyp will also convert to estrogen.Originally Posted by AGELESS
Its not about total testosterone - its about FREE testosterone. Make sure your DR checks your estrogen - trust me, in most cases- bring that estrogen back in line - then check your total & free test.
I know I'm rambling on and on but noone has said anything about estrogen control and thats a MUST!!
It happened to me - they were loading me up with CYP and my estrogen levels went thru the roof. I was holding water like crazy, swelling up etc. Boderline gyno....only reason Im bringing this up is cause no one has talked about it.
02-16-2006, 06:46 PM
I read that one of the levels they check is estrodiol (?) I read that link Ageless, and you're right about estrogen control. I have picked a doctor that was in the Mens Health Network, which specializes in HRT. I didn't want one of those fly by night companies that send you for a high dollar blood test, charge you a high price for a "consultation", and then you buy your "gear" from their pharmacy....
02-16-2006, 08:02 PM
Using transdermal continuously my free test is 2.68 out of a range between 1.1 and 2.8. My estradiol is 20 out of a range of 10-50. It says it's in the normal range but my old number was 10, which means it doubled.Originally Posted by AGELESS
02-17-2006, 09:50 AM
02-17-2006, 03:06 PM
I kinda wonder... If you have a script, does it matter that you have cheap UG gear? I'd think you'd still be OK, legal-wise...?
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