Every other day!
- 01-06-2006, 06:03 PM
Every other day!
I am 38 and I have been nice and regular at the gym for at least the last year and a half.
I have a three day split;
Tues: Chest / Tri / Abs
Thurs: Back / Bi / Calves
Sun: Shoulders / Legs
I do cardio about 4x week.
The problem is, I *CAN'T* do two days in a row of lifting - I need at least one day in-between to recover.
i.e., if I miss Tues workout and do it Wednesday, I need Thurs to recover to hit the usual body parts. Even though I am not working those muscle groups, my body just wants to time off.
Anyone else like this?
- 01-06-2006, 08:00 PM
nah, i've missed before and made it up the next day with a split very similar to yours. chest/tri/abs shouldn't interfere with a back/bi/calves workout IMO.
01-06-2006, 08:24 PM
If you are having so much of an issue to not recover enough to do a pull after a push you may need to look into your nutrition or the type of exercise/intensity. Your split is a very good basic split and you should be able to do 2on, 1off, 1on, at the very least, if not three consecutive.
01-06-2006, 09:52 PM
01-06-2006, 10:02 PM
I'm 49 and my partner is 40, we do a Mon-Chest, Tues-Tris & Bi's, Wed-legs, Thurs-Shoulders, Fri-Back with Sat & Sun off. Doing just legs on Wed breaks it up pretty good for us. We do a high intesity hour each morning and I usually go back each day for at least an hour of cardio. The diet is the hardest part. My nose is turning into a freakin beak........
01-06-2006, 10:10 PM
Thanks for the info so far - I know that this split is super basic.
As it stands, I have no problem unless I try to stack them closer.
There is no doubt that my intensity is high - I put on the headphones and crank it up, and the world could explode around me and I would never notice.
I do 3-4 excercizes per body part for 3-4 sets each, at 7-10 reps. It takes me about 60-75 mins for an average workout, without the cardio.
My diet is pretty clean, high protein, low carb. I am 6'2" 227lbs. I am pretty religious about pre and post workout nutrition. I am getting some good results, so I know the body is responding the way that I want it to.
The reason I posted in this area was to see if other older dudes like me have a similar problem.
Can you guys think of any more specifics that I could provide that might explain this, other than age? I guess two variables that I have left out are that I am on a statin drug (lipitor), and I am also a completely controlled type II diabetic - BG is perfectly normal.
Maybe I am a pus and I just need to suck it up?
01-06-2006, 10:14 PM
Damn, so Tues arms following chest the day before is no problem eh?Originally Posted by delta314
I could probably do back the day after shoulders. The problem might be more the fact that I am really working three body parts and going high intensity for so long.
Unfortunately, I can really only make it to the gym on these days - so they have to be busy ones.
01-06-2006, 10:33 PM
Is it really that bad or are you just stiff/sore. I know I sometimes train and I am still stiff/sore from the previous days workout. But after a reasonable 15-20 warm up the wheels are greased and I can perform my days workout. Are you warming up thoroughly every time you train?Originally Posted by Rhyalus
3-4 exercise per body part at high intensity is quite a bit. You could be over training. If you do 4 exercises for 4 sets thats 16 set for a body part. If you are doing chest and tris that is 32 sets. Way too much. Cut it in half. Chest 3-4 sets of incline, 3-4 sets of flat (or exercises of choice). Tris 3-4 sets crushers and maybe a couple three of push downs (or exercises of choice). Then the next time that day comes around use the other two exercises, for each body part, respectively.
01-06-2006, 11:49 PM
01-06-2006, 11:51 PM
I wouldn't do tris after chest, not giving them enough recovery that way.Originally Posted by Rhyalus
But back to your question, yes some weeks I feel that I need more time between resistance training days. Usually has to do with my attitude rather than anything physical. I can convince myself that I need the day off from lifting very easily, especially when not taking any "Ergonomics"
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
01-07-2006, 12:01 AM
Yes I hear you, consecutive days dont work for me either, I think we have to remember that these split routines and other routines listed in bodybuilding magazines are designed by guys using lots of juice. Split routines always exhausted me and killed my muscle tone. What does work for me is 3 full body workouts a week using a modified HST periodization. It doesnt mean you are a wuss, I have felt similar in the past and decided to just "suck it up" that attitude resulted in injury and put me out of routine for months.
01-07-2006, 12:07 AM
Don't worry, your time will come.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
01-07-2006, 12:09 AM
01-07-2006, 09:39 AM
Well, I guess the answer is that the muscles are sore, and my body feels like it wants rest. I like going to the gym feeling fresh, so that the accessory muscles won't get hurt from over exertion. I usually do an eliptical for 10mins to get the pulse up, then I stretch for about 5 mins. My first set is usually light weight, for 12 reps.Originally Posted by B5150
I guess 16 is the upper limit of what I would do for a body part - usually it is 3-4 excersizes for 3 sets. Either way, I hear you on the "too much".
I'll post some printouts of my workout schedule. I have an excel sheet with all of the excersizes that I do, and I rotate from week to week.
01-07-2006, 09:40 AM
01-07-2006, 09:42 AM
Hi Knowbull,Originally Posted by Knowbull
I have to tell you that I did wholebody for years, and in the last year and a half where I went to split routines, I have made huge gains.
There is no way on earth that I have enough energy (or time!) to do all the work that is needed on a particular muscle group to get hypertrophy.
Thanks for the reminder that not being a pus can result in injury, too... point well taken.
01-07-2006, 09:44 AM
I have only done one cycle of legal supps, but I have to say that I did not get that enhanced recovery thing going on. This was PP....Originally Posted by jonny21
I was hoping for it, too!
Cissus Rx seems to help - although my joints are fine.
01-07-2006, 05:16 PM
See, this is where I've always gotten corn frittered.Originally Posted by B5150
If that was all there is to it, then why couldn't your split be something like: Chest/Shoulder/Tri, Back/Bi, Legs then repeat. This cycle could potentially go on and on indefinitely without time off IF it was just about nutrition, no?
However that never seems to be tha case with me and I would suspect that that as you age, you do indeed need more and more time off.
01-07-2006, 06:31 PM
when I was in NC I heard some yoots talk like that.Originally Posted by TheUnlikelyToad
At times I can and do train just like that. Now the issue is can you physically do it? Some people's threshold (in this case Rhyalus) of pain (soreness/DOMS) tolerance seems to be less than others. I train around it, not training the same BP's consecutively. Rarely am I fresh when I hit a days split, and certainly carry residual soreness form the previous split. Once warmed up I am not hindered by it at all. But no it is not JUST nutrition of course. Volume, intensity and frequency need to be balanced to accomadate your own body and its recovery needs. You will likely hinder you growth potential and or overtrain if you are not physically made up to handle it.If that was all there is to it, then why couldn't your split be something like: Chest/Shoulder/Tri, Back/Bi, Legs then repeat. This cycle could potentially go on and on indefinitely without time off IF it was just about nutrition, no?
Speaking only for myself, I need to train to stay sane. Time off is not a good thing for my psycological condition and as time goes on it progresses...the condition, that is. I take a week off (this Christmas/NY almost 2 full weeks) every 8 to 12 weeks depending on my goals.However that never seems to be tha case with me and I would suspect that that as you age, you do indeed need more and more time off.
BTW Toad you know I am no expert...except maybe on the condition 'thing'.
01-07-2006, 06:32 PM
I am in the gym 7 days per week. I listen to my body as I know it well. But I'm lifting a 5 day split right now and my "off" days include calves/abs/cardio. If I start feeling fatigued I take a real rest day. I feel flu like during the cutting season and take more rest days then. But in the bulking season where I lift heavy and take rest between sets....I never feel over trained. My eating is typically on target (save for the holidays and infrequent cheat meals). Diet is a HUGE factor in this.....as is your conditioning level. You just have to listen to your body and if you feel as though you can push through....you probably can. But if you feel as though you need rest....you'd better listen or you will be
01-07-2006, 06:39 PM
What he said. I believe my conditioning has allowed me for greater recovery. Some supplements help this out tooOriginally Posted by SJA
01-08-2006, 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by Rhyalus
I'm 47 and also need a great deal of recovery. I workout with my family on a four day split that works well for us. Realizing that I would always need at least three to four days per body part for recovery I split my workouts between upper and lower body. Most weeks there's at least two days that are back to back. However, by splitting upper/lower I don't have to worry much about recovery. I do a 45 minute brisk walk four mornings a week (on an empty stomache), and 20 min of HIT cardio after my Saturday workout. My workouts cycle between Power, Rep Range and shock, a method developed by Eric Broser - it's been published in Iron Man.
A typical 2 week period would go as follows:
Mon - Lower (heavy) Wed - Upper (heavy) Friday - Lower (Rep range) Saturday - Upper (Rep range) following Mon - Lower (shock) Wed (upper shock) and so on.
I include abs only on Upper body days. My lower body workouts do a pretty good job of hitting my abs. You can see that each body part is hit every three to four days. If I feel my central nervous system is being over taxed I can move the schedule up a day or two for more recovery. Usually within a week or two I'm back on schedule. I normally take a full week off every 8 -10 weeks, and two weeks off twice a year.
Here's a sample of my routines. They can easily be adjusted to accommodate any goal:
Legs/Lower Back (Heavy)
squats...3 x 4-6 (three warm up sets)
Dead lifts...3 x 3-6 (one warm up)
leg press...3 x 4-6
single leg extension...2 x 4-6
Seated calve raise…3 x 6-8 (one warm up set)
Legs/Lower Back (Rep Range)Leg: rep range
leg extension...2 x 8-10
rack squat...3 x 10-12
leg press...3 x 12-15
Leg press calve presses…3 x 15 – 20
Standing calve raises….2 x 12 - 15
leg curl...2 x 6-8
weighted hyperextension (pad on thighs to hit hams)...2 x 8-10
Legs/Lower Back (shock)
leg extension...2 x 8-10 drop 8 x 10
leg press...2 x 10 – 12 drop 10 – 12
Superset squats/stiff-legged dead lifts…2 x 10-12
leg curl... 2 x 6-8 drop 6-8
Standing calve raises….2 x 10-12, drop 10-12, 10-12
Upper Body (heavy)
Weighted rope tucks…4 x 6-8
Bent over rows…3 x 4-6 (3 warm up sets)
Barbell bench press…3 x 4-6 (3 warm up sets)
WG T-bar rows…2 x 4-6
Incline DB press…2 x 4-6
Weighted chin ups… 3 x 4-6
Weighted parallel bar dips…3 x 4-6
Clean and press…3 x 4-6 (one warm up)
Upper Body (rep range)
ab crunch 2 to failure
leg raises 2 to failure
Lat pulls...3 x 6-8 (three warm up sets)
incline DB press...3 x 6-8 ( three warm up sets)
One arm DB rows…2 x 10-12
Chest flies…2 x 10-12
CG Bench…3 x 8-10
Barbell Curl…2 x 8-10 (one warm up)
Seated DB press 3 x 6-8 (one warm up set)
Lateral raises 2x 10-12
DB shrugs 2 x 12-15
Upper Body (shock)
Superset leg raises/crunches 2 x 12-15
WG pull down / stiff arm pull down superset...-2 x 8-10 each (one warm up)
Superset incline DB press/bent over DB rows...2 x 8-10 reps each
Superset... flat bench db press/pullovers...2 x 8-10 reps each
Drop set...machine bench press...1 x 8-10, drop 8-10, drop 6-8
Drop set... CG seated pulley row 1 x 8-10, drop, 8-10, drop, 6-8
Giant sets… lateral raise/front raise/bent over raise 2 x 10-12
Drop set… cable shrugs 1 x 10-12, drop 10-12 drop 8-10
Compound super drop set… triceps rope push down 1 x 10, drop 10, drop 10, drop 10 (without rest proceed to cable bar curls standing preacher angle) 1 x 10, drop 10, drop 10, drop 10.
Last edited by colkurtz_spf; 01-10-2006 at 10:25 PM.
01-18-2006, 12:12 AM
UUMMM....No Pain , No Gain anyone?
Tearing muscle fibers hurts. Too bad it is the only way to build muscle. No matter how much positive nitrogen your cycling or how much glycogen is in your working muscles, you ultimately have to breakdown muscle tissue, to build it back stronger and larger.
The pain thresh hold is a big thing. I have a high tolerance for injury pain. However I find the nagging pain from workout to be annoying. The pain often distracts me from basic daily tasks.( getting dressed, getting in and out of bed) But thats the trade, to me its worth it. I have less tolerance for pain as I have grown older, but I seem to understand and appreciate it more. Everytime I have trained my shoulders or my legs for the last 20 year I have had 2 days of pain. I am used to it but I still don't like it...Although there are lots of things I like even less,.. like weakness!
05-21-2006, 11:07 AM
Nothing wrong with your routine bra, I hit it for three on one off with Kempo twice a week for my cardio. Six on one off,..one off for what ? I grow well with a lil time off in between, but no longer than three, or its like I gotta start allover again to get that grove back. lol
05-21-2006, 11:05 PM
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