- 12-21-2005, 03:44 AM
Very curious of the sleep patterns of others as we train and or supplement. It appears I am not alone. I on average get about 4 to 5 hours then I am restless or get up for a bit. Read the forums or some other technical stuff, get sleepy and try again. Very rare can I get more than 6 hours. I nap about an hour a day to get what I can when I can. Nothing like a Saturday afternoon nap for about 2-3 hours. Tend to be busy though. Been this way most of my life, more so as I age. I have yet to find the silver bullet, only learning to live with it instead of fighting it. Allot less stress that way.
OK somebody knock me out, I need the sleep!
- 12-21-2005, 08:19 AM
For me it varies, based on how much stress I am under at work.
I usually wake up at about 3am or so (like you it seems) and struggle to go back to sleep as my mind goes a mile a minute. No "night fears" like I read about on t-nation (Hour of the Wolf, they call it), but just general inability to relax.
If I take a mild dose of benadryl before going to bed I can usually avoid this.
During times of low stress (like Friday and Saturday night), this happens far less.
- 12-21-2005, 08:53 AM
My GF always marvels at how little sleep I need. I usually get about 5 hours (mostly restless sleep). Some days I can sneak in a power nap (10-20 minutes) and be very refreshed. Then it seems that twice a month, I have a day where I just go for a big 8-9 hour sleep fest.
12-21-2005, 12:33 PM
All of a sudden I don't feel so bad. I am thankful for 6 hours. It would not be bad at all if they were all together.
12-21-2005, 03:48 PM
We share the pain. Consecutive hours of rest would be wonderful, just not a reality for me. Sometimes just falling asleep is an effort. Can't seem to turn the brain off. If it gets off on some process I am had. Of course I must admit nothing a good back rub can't fix or at least improve. I have tried many types of bedding over the years. None seem to work any better. I do find stretching before bed helps me relax. Sounds like I am a candidate for some GH, as it appears to provide more restful sleep for some. And look at the side benefits. Makes a mind say ... Hmmmm?!
My current cycle does not seem to affect my sleep patterns much. I do feel a little more tired by days end but nothing inhibiting in any way. I believe I may be falling asleep faster. (after stretching) Can anyone else relate their cycle/sleep experience?
For those of us that are challenged I do give some concern to getting adequate rest when training. I try to rest when I can and feel tired. I practice stress relief as frequently as possible as well. So I feel energetic and ready to go most of the time. Of course I tend to feel that way once my eyes open irregardless of the time.
12-22-2005, 07:54 AM
Master the power nap. If I'm a little tired at work, I'll go to my car and crash for 10-20 minutes. I feel as though I've had 8 hours of sleep after that. I don't even need an alarm clock....I just wake up and get rolling again.
12-23-2005, 03:55 PM
I usually have to go to the john a couple of times a night, that seems to screw me up. I never feel like I get a complete nights sleep.
12-24-2005, 09:14 AM
12-24-2005, 11:28 AM
Well Ageless you would seem to be the most experienced among us. Been there and done most of what we speak of. And some we havent yet I am sure. Any tips sir?
12-24-2005, 05:40 PM
Some nights I toss & turn, cant sleep - my mind goes a mile a minute.
I found a very unusual way to sleep - now this is not a joke and it beats counting sheep....try it at least once.
I count the women in my life. I go back as far as I can remember - the first event (with names if possible) with each....in detail. (dont count ex wives or this wont work LOL)
I tell ya...this really works...I dont remember ever finishing the list and Im asleep - deep sleep.
Im going to go take a nap now LOL
12-24-2005, 07:10 PM
In my experiences, sleep is interrupted by urination, been this way for decades, talked to others that experience the same thing, could be a stoneage primal remnant. I try to drink no fluids with in 4 hours of bed time.
12-24-2005, 08:13 PM
Frequent urination need during sleep is a sign of Prostate enlargement, had it checked?
The problem with napping versus longer sleep is that you will get either deep delta sleep or light dreaming theta, but not both,and you need both for optimum mind and body renewal.
There are many chemical aids to sleep like Melatonin, 5HTP, Phenibut, etc and another possibility, works for many, is pink sound generators and/or sleep sound recordings that use binaural beats to lull you down.
12-24-2005, 11:07 PM
While not over 35, sleep problems have been constant in my life. Serious periods of insomnia, as in enough sleep deprivation to start hallucinating, were a regular occurance in my life for a while. Melatonin is the best thing I've found. Next best thing, no joke, director's commentaries on DVDs. DVDs that put me to sleep with the commentary on are The Exorcist, John Carpenter's The Thing, Natural Born Killers, The Seventh Seal and any of the Star Wars movies. Basically movies I'm familiar with and have seen a lot.Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
Bump to the prostate. Having to piss all the time isn't really normal, it's usually indicative of some problem. My father had his checked shortly before he died and it was enlarged. The reason he had it checked was because of frequent urination. It's something to keep an eye on.
12-25-2005, 12:10 AM
I sleep about 4-5 hours a night, I always feel messed up in the head, but its a good thing, it keeps me sharp...
12-25-2005, 12:16 AM
I always get 8 hrs of sleep. I currently work graves so when ever i have to pull a long shift i can sleep for up to 12 hrs.
12-25-2005, 12:20 AM
although I feel blessed in both sleep and appetite.The times I am awake I have learned to enjoy..because I use the same technique.I recount my memories from the earliest to present day.Most of them are about women(all)I am sure I don't have the same number as you, but it is especially satisfying when I remember one that I had forgot.I am also a big fan of the power nap usually around 11am or 7pm.When all else fails sex if possible(mastrubation just not as effective)reading,oatmeal,ZMA or my personal all time favorite Tryptophan.If you enjoy lucid dreaming(especially about the old girlfriends) try mixing tryptophan with tramadol.Merry Christmas I am still awake!Originally Posted by AGELESS
12-25-2005, 01:05 AM
I piss about 3-5 times per night....my prostate always checks out fine. I seem to have to piss whenever I relax. I drink 1.5 gallons of water each day and seem to hold onto it until I nap or go to bed. I always thought it was a prostate issue until I started having physicals....it isn't.
I'm going to try counting old GF's....Hell....I may even have to go out and get a few more to make this work.
I also enjoy watching Cold Case Files or Forensic Files.....they always relax me.
Pink noise works great. I have it in most areas where I work and I find it VERY hard to stay awake when I'm a little tired. I never thought of putting a generator in my room...hmmm....good idea.
12-25-2005, 01:58 AM
Yeah Man, my prostates okay,frequent urination at night is a sign of "Alpha Male" as well as hyper-vigilance remember,we evolved from a genetic quirk in a certain type of species that became bi-pedal with an opposable thumb. This is not to infer anything that would offend you or anyone else that may or not be "higher" or "lesser" evolved, even if there was such a thing. I like every one! Especially those that are concerned about my "wee wee"
12-25-2005, 02:23 AM
I might be a candidate for sleep apnea.. I am still waiting to drop some BF before I go in for a sleep study.
In general I dont have a problem falling asleep...but there have been nights.
It amazes me how many people complain of not being able to sleep but do not do any of the many basic things that could be done without spending money on prescriptions and supps. (not meaning you guys)
Here are a few things that work for me.
1. Get the TV out of the bedroom. If there is
a show you must watch get a DVR and record it.
2. Go to bed the same time every night.
3. Wake up the same time every morning.
4. Take a hot shower before bed.
5. Clean sheets and clean pajamas. Some people
prefer to sleep in the buff.. whatever is more comfortable.
6. Do not eat heavy late at night. Watch out for the spicy foods.
7. Get up early to get your workout in. Exercise to close to bedtime
is a bad idea. You guys probably already know that.
If you have business that could keep you up stressing about it and if you have time before your scheduled bedtime..take care of it. You will feel better knowing you did what you could do for the time being. If you cannot then read a boring book or do some kind of meditation to clear your head. I like to do some cleanning and get my food and clothes ready before I take my evening shower. I feel more "On top of things". It makes it easier to lift my head from the pillow in the morning knowing all I have to do is hit the shower, get dressed, grab my grub and hit the door. Limiting my coffee/caffeine consumption during the day has helped me as well. One hardy cup in the mornning should be all that you need provided your sleep starts improving.
Melatonin use should be restricted to establishing a sleep pattern... once established you should discontinue use. Otherwise it becomes a crutch and does not addresse the true problem.
I have had good experiences following the aforementioned... and have had some success experimenting with MR. U's Oral/inject p-gh. I seem to be getting a deeper sleep and waking more rested.
The hot shower,clean sheets, and comfortable clothes really helps me with the stress. White noise, reading, thinking about old girlfriends etc. Different things work for different people. But establishing a regular sleep pattern is king and is the one thing that has helped me the most.
Hope you start sleeping better.
Last edited by ryano; 12-25-2005 at 02:43 AM.
12-25-2005, 02:29 AM
12-25-2005, 11:16 AM
Everything you said is basically what my doc said, and for the most part it worked. I know people who take melatonin all the time, and when I tell them not to they think I'm bull****ting. I mean, it is a hormone, it's not something that should be messed with on a consistent basis.Originally Posted by ryano
12-27-2005, 08:06 PM
I work 24/7 shifts so the body clock is all over the place. I can cope with the shifts and the tiredness, I just wish the other half would understand why I get grumpy! lol
12-28-2005, 08:39 AM
My experience is they never will. Just rest when you can and do the best that you can. Those that sleep have no idea!Originally Posted by BrumMac
12-28-2005, 12:38 PM
If you're having sleep issues and you have insurance, have a sleep study done. I was diagnosed with OSA 3 years ago and CPAP therapy saved my life, literally. Ryan, don't wait until you lose weight, my pressures and need for therapy only changed 1-2 cm/ H20 with a 60 lb weight loss. I was hoping that I wouldn't need it anymore after the weight came off, no such luck.
12-31-2005, 10:34 PM
You are right. I will have it done regardless.
But I feel I am borderline.
The sleep has been improving alongside the weight coming off.
Im not tired all the time like I used too be. But snoring continues to be a problem. I think Glenihan just ordered his cpap. I wonder how its working out.
How is it working for you? Do you use it every night?
01-07-2006, 03:17 PM
I feel like a new man because of it. I am making better gains lifting now, than I ever did!! Do yourself a favor and get an auto if you can. I had issues with the fixed pressure unit that I had, now with the auto, I sleep soundly all night. The auto will adjust up or down depending upon how serious the sleep event is.Originally Posted by ryano
When I first started, I couldn't believe how much more energy I had to work with, that's what got my fat ass back into the gym. I've been on CPAP therapy for a little over 3 years and it did save my life. According to one of the docs at university I was about 6 months or less from a stroke! I've survived all kinds of freaky ****, but screwed up sleep almost killed me, go figure?
01-08-2006, 01:00 AM
01-13-2006, 02:04 PM
are you by chance a big caffeine or coffee imbiber?Originally Posted by SJA
And a big "thumbs up" to 5-HTP -- use for 1 week out of 4 it really helps.
01-13-2006, 04:54 PM
Well, I know im not old enough to be in this thread but I am really struggling. I have no problem falling asleep but after 3-4 hours i wake up, for 20 min to 2 hours, all my sleep after that is in bursts of bad dreams. Its killing me. I am trying to get my doc to give me a short script of ambien to break the pattern. Anyone have any immediate ways to help? I've tried sleep aids but the nightmares were worse.
01-13-2006, 07:05 PM
Snoring is one of the symptoms of sleep apnea, which is a beast. It places you at a higher risk for high blood pressure, CVD, diabetes, and metabolic syndrome... Some research (Wisconsin Sleep Cohort Study) suggests that if you are middle aged and overweight, chances are 50/50 that you have sleep apnea... Others say as many as 1 in 5 adults...But snoring continues to be a problem
Good news is that CPAP, when worn effectively (every night for the vast majority of the night), basically reverses the condition and causes the increased chronic disease risk to dissipate.
You say you were getting sleepy during the day too?
Check this link out: http://www.fitnessonline.com/tools/sleep/
This is a scale that rates excess daytime sleepiness, and asks you to rate on a scale of 0-3 how likely you are to doze while doing common daily activities. Anything over 10 is considered significant. If memory serves me correctly, CPAP cost in moderate sleep apnea with the presence of daytime sleepiness (score >10) is typically reimbursed by insurance. Dont know if this is still the case or not...
Good luck with the weight loss!
01-13-2006, 09:04 PM
This happened to a friend of mine...oddly enough, he eventually figured out it happened only when he slept on his left side...you never know...odds are against it but might be worth checking out to see if you have a position you go into mid-way through the night and it's related. Seems your mental state resumes based upon physical cues.Originally Posted by kjkriston
01-13-2006, 09:44 PM
I truly appreciate that insight but the fact is, I change position so often during these disturbing time s that nyquil is my only way out. Left side, right side, stomach, back. It never really matters. I have no problem falling asleep. When I wake up it seems I am unusually awake. Soemtimes I am reallly really tired. Then I have no problem falling back asleep but i ten dto have bad dreams after that. I have not figured out exactly what originally wakes me up. It seems to not be nightmares. I just sort of wake up. Its the dreams that follow that keep me aake for the rest of the night. I have had some significantly terrible experiecences that effect my dreams. But this phenomeneon has only recently started affecting me. I am a 2 time Iraq vet. I have always had those dreams but these are different. They involve my wife an dsometimes my son. So different than what I originally got used to. I just want to break the cycle to see if that helps. i was hoping there was an OTC that I could get real soon to see if it worked.
01-14-2006, 09:56 PM
I picked up some melatonin...can some one please give me a good dosage. It says 1 ....3 gram tablet is enough....sound right to you?
01-14-2006, 10:23 PM
Melatonin helps "set your clock" but doesn't seem to affect the quality or duration of your sleep from a number of studies I've read, although in some studies it does show improvement (esp. for elderly people) -- see the link at the end.Originally Posted by kjkriston
And did you say this is a 3 gram tablet? In case studies I've seen, the dose is up to 1000 times less (i.e. 3mg) but I'm afraid I don't know...
Here is a link for you...http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...an/ai_95676501
01-14-2006, 10:38 PM
01-15-2006, 01:38 AM
I responded better to 1.5 mg (3mg broke in half) better.
3mg seemed to be too much and did not do much for falling asleep.
This just might be me.
Expect some grogginess in the mornining. But once your up its easy to shake.
If you can get your hands on some GABA or pgh I would try that as well.
01-15-2006, 12:46 PM
Melatonin seems to help me stay asleep longer. I also do wake up groggy, but that is gone after I shower.
01-15-2006, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by Malek256
I don't usually drink coffee....but I do put away almost 2 gallons of water most days.
I'm going in for the sleep study....but they'd better get a piss bottle ready....otherwise they are going to get tired of pulling all of that **** off of me so that I can piss. Maybe I'll jsut let it go and give them something to do when I leave
01-16-2006, 12:39 PM
01-16-2006, 12:53 PM
I just have my current girlfriend talk to me about her day. I'm usually out like a light within minutes. I'm not kidding, it's very bizzare, and sadly comical.
I think it stems from years of always trying to get her to stop talking so I can go to sleep when I'm in bed.
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