SD/Prostanz cycle

[Smoky]

Hello all,

This seems to be the area where I fit best. I like many other am making my best efforts a regaining what once was. I have stayed in fair condition for most of my life but as we know life keeps us busy. Finally at this point in my life I can focus on me again. So I have researched and kicked off on my first cycle to the new me. Let me say I have and am currently taking my preventative supplements both pre and post (pct w/nolva). I am looking to attain lean mass but am not limiting my calories only keeping them clean. Any and all feedback is appreciated and taken accordingly. I am currently on day 6 @ 20mg of SD. My planned cycle is …
5 weeks
SD 20
SD 20/30
SD 20 Prostanz 75
Prostanz 100
Prostanz 100

supplementing AX Rampage pre WO- does seem to push the energy level a bit.

Current status is some hardness beginning to appear and water consumption is up alot. Appetite seems to have grown as well. General mood and energy levels are good. By all measures this seemed to be a good choice for lean bulking.

 

[Rkstr]

Is SD something that you would recomend?

 

[revodrew]

Hey, I would bump the Prostanz to atleast 100mg as it is underdosed. Possibly up to 125mg ed.

 

[Smoky]

I was considering raising the dosage of Prostanz as most reports concur with the undersized doses. Perhaps 100mg to start, with growth to 150/175mg would be more apporpriate. Any input?? :blink:

As for recommending SD I will refrain till I complete my cycle. But it is obvious I give it some creditability or I wouldn't be on the cycle. Time will tell if my decsion was wise.

 

[revodrew]

Yeah, starting with 100mg would be good. Then up to 150 and see how that turns out for you. Probally would stay there to be honest.

 

[RipdnTxs2]

I,m sure u have researched SD already, but keep an eye on your BP while on, good luck, keep us posted.....

 

[xtraflossy]

Have you considered running the SD at only 1 a day for an extra week and keeping the Proztanz at 75mgs?

Prostanz wont help ya much on its own, it seems to be more anti-catabolic at 75 a day. Most epople I've herd from expirence all sorts of issues ramping up the doses above 125.

The extra SD at 1 a day (or half a day) would work to help keep your gains and hopefully allow the extra glycogen storrage to lessen a little- could help keep the weight around the stomach off after.

After 3 weeks the SD starts to loose effect it seems. You can use the 2 weeks of Prostanz to solidify your gains, and start PCT durring the last week of Prostanz.

I have put on 10lbs this way and 3 weeks after have maintained it.

 

[Smoky]

I was considering an extra week of SD for that reason. So to make sure I am understanding you correctly....

SD 20
SD 20
SD 20/30
SD 10 Pro 100
Pro 125/150
Pro 125/150

are we on the same page?

 

[Smoky]

day 7

Still kickin the weights! Last night I jumped my poundage’s by at least 10lbs. Energy levels are good, still no perceptible sides. Darn glad I am not a delivery driver or trucker. Frequency of urination has increased a fair amount. The water intake increases as well. Looking forward to the 2nd week, as most report gains coming on steady by then.

I have been doing a bit more research on cycling with Prostanz and all indicators point towards using it most effectively as a bridge from SD into PCT. It indicates to me that it will assist in preserving mass and transitioning to a lean harder state. Of course keeping in mind cycle lengths and adequate PCT.

A bridge involves transitioning from heavier androgenic-anabolic agents, which are highly suppressive, to the less-androgenic but still highly anabolic compounds. I am suggesting that Prostanz fits this requirement well. Do we have anyone that can clarify or certify this theory?
:run:

 

[Grunt76]

Actually Superdrol is extremely anabolic and only very slightly androgenic whereas prostanozol is the reverse, that is much more androgenic than anabolic... And being so different is what makes it so good to stack them together...

 

[jonny21]

A bridge involves transitioning from heavier androgenic-anabolic agents, which are highly suppressive, to the less-androgenic but still highly anabolic compounds. I am suggesting that Prostanz fits this requirement well. Do we have anyone that can clarify or certify this theory?
:run:

Like Grunt stated Prostanazol would be on the androgenic end of the spectrum. Nevertheless, the idea is to not let your body adapt and compensate, so the switch is beneficial. I like the idea of starting with a higher androgen and finishing with an anabolic/low androgen.

A Test/OT cycle is in my near future.

But that is me and I don't really know **** anyway.

 

[Grunt76]

But that is me and I don't really know **** anyway.

You don't? Heh, that must be why I'm always in agreement with you. :icon_lol:

 

[Smoky]

Thanks for the input, as I strive to understand just a little more everyday. Beginning to wonder about my dosage. Been at 20 for about 4 days with nothing to write home about, or should I say based on other's reporting. Feedback welcome on bumping to 30 for week 2. This mornings weigh in shows a 4-5 lbs gain for the first week. I normaly have to dose heavy on meds and OTC as well.

 

[jonny21]

Been at 20 for about 4 days with nothing to write home about, or should I say based on other's reporting. Feedback welcome on bumping to 30 for week 2. This mornings weigh in shows a 4-5 lbs gain for the first week.

Do you normally gain 4-5lbs in a week (4-5 days)?

If so, and you are above 225lbs consider going to 30mg/day. Otherwise read more logs and find out other's dosing/gains. IMHO you don't need to increase.

 

[Smoky]

As I have read in many logs it seems to vary based on ones resistance or sensitivity. (for the lack of a more pc correct term) Weight gain is easy for me, always has been. I have been consuming allot more calories. Keeping it clean as well. I have not done any measurement as of yet but notice no increases. The waist as far as the clothes go, feels just fine. I may have lost some BF as I notice what appears to be a little more definition in places. I have been doing mild cardio about 3 days a week in the am. I put the pounds on real fast, which I attribute mostly to carb loading and water. I was basically cutting previous to this attempt. I make this inquiry for more info as I am in no hurry to up the dosage. But I do want to make sure I am understanding what my body is telling me, so I can maximize my efforts and gains with the tools have I chosen to use. So as to not waste the cycle either. In a nut shell, the most efficient and effective application of said tools without going overboard

 

[Grunt76]

Please state bodyweight, height and approximate bf%. Also, diet is as important when on androgens as not, so please provide macronutrient breakdown.

Usually, the first thing you need to do before increasing your dosage of androgens is to increase your dosage of FOOD.

 

[Smoky]

This morning 199lbs 6' tall approx 15%BF. I had dropped during my previous phase perhaps 5%BF over 12 weeks and falling to 1500cals 45\35 Protein\Carb split. Since I have ramped up to 3000 + @ 40\50 split. I eat instinctively as I have lead this life style naturally for many of my adult years. I did run a log till I get the hang of my meals and portions, then I wing it so to speak. Less stressfull that way. Life along with divorces and such has taken its toll. I am recomping to attain my goals once again.

 

[Grunt76]

For someone your size, 20mg ED of SD should be enough. NEEDING 30mg would be surprising. Perhaps going to 400g protein ED would do good.

How's the lethargy?

 

[Smoky]

No ill sides. Feel reasonably energetic and moods are good. No change in sleep patterns. I take at 5am and 3:30pm currently. Workout at 5pm.

 

[Grunt76]

Looks good to me. Expect the gains to start rolling it within the next couple days. If lethargy hits too hard, increase calories.

 

[Smoky]

Today's WO was good. Added lbs. everywhere but DL. It was last in my WO, so I may adjust there. ...

 

[Smoky]

Deep consideration has produced this proposed shift. Rather than push the SD I will engage the Pro sooner and keep the SD down.

SD 20
SD 20 Pro 100
SD 20 Pro 100
Pro 125/150
Pro 125/150

 

[RipdnTxs2]

Good log Smoky, we are similar in size and 20 was plenty for me, listen to these guys, and get ready for the real gains to start, it wasnt until the third week that I started to gain............

 

[Smoky]

I accept and agree with the logic to hold and see how it goes @ 20 for this cycle. So I have started the Pro and will keep the cycle short running two compounds. Keep PCT at a reasonable length as well. Anyone know the half life of Pro as far a dosing is concerned running 100+ ED?

 

[delta314]

I'm going to be watching your log here, as we are very close in all aspects. I'm 6'0, 215lb, and 49 years young. Just finished a 6 week e-max cycle and I have a box full goodies I ordered from Nutraplanet and Island Supplements. (couple bottles each of PP, SD, Pro, and 2 packs of Haladrol) I kept my caloric intake around 4000 during my cycle. 400g carbs, 300g protein, 100g fat. Good luck!

 

[Smoky]

day 11

Still feeling good in general. Pro @ 100 for two days now. Notice a new sensation, kind of like a muscle pump within 2 hours of dose, seems to last 4-8. Mostly in the quads and upper arms. Been on off days so today's training will tell more with chest and arm due today. I am making some adjustments to my training split and watching the numbers closer on my diet. Read as running daily calculations. Just dont feel like the 2 day split was doing it for me. So I am back to a three day making sure to include at least one major compound each training day. This will also show me if I have made any gains from my 2 day split routine

 

[Smoky]

I'm going to be watching your log here, as we are very close in all aspects. I'm 6'0, 215lb, and 49 years young. Just finished a 6 week e-max cycle and I have a box full goodies I ordered from Nutraplanet and Island Supplements. (couple bottles each of PP, SD, Pro, and 2 packs of Haladrol) I kept my caloric intake around 4000 during my cycle. 400g carbs, 300g protein, 100g fat. Good luck!

I like the indications that you have long range plans as well. Something us of the wonder years understand very well. How did your cycle go for you? Do you have a log posted perhaps? I also have future design ideas yet fermenting in my mind at this point. PP, SD, Pro, Methyl 1-A (latest legal 1-test), ... plethora of possibilities single or stacked. As we carefuly learn what they do, stacking them is enticing but requires adequate thought as well. Test and E manipulation cycles may also prove to do well as I learn more, but again I am learning.

 

[Xel]

I accept and agree with the logic to hold and see how it goes @ 20 for this cycle. So I have started the Pro and will keep the cycle short running two compounds. Keep PCT at a reasonable length as well. Anyone know the half life of Pro as far a dosing is concerned running 100+ ED?

Prostanozol has a low half life, around 5-9 hours. Or so I've heard from an AX rep.

 

[delta314]

I like the indications that you have long range plans as well. Something us of the wonder years understand very well. How did your cycle go for you? Do you have a log posted perhaps? I also have future design ideas yet fermenting in my mind at this point. PP, SD, Pro, Methyl 1-A (latest legal 1-test), ... plethora of possibilities single or stacked. As we carefuly learn what they do, stacking them is enticing but requires adequate thought as well. Test and E manipulation cycles may also prove to do well as I learn more, but again I am learning.

I didn't think to keep a log when I started. It was my first time experimenting with this type of supplement. I have kept a food log for the last year. Now that I've seen other's logs, I will definitely keep one on my next cycle. I did add 50lbs to my bench (1 rep), and 45 lbs to my squat. So far I have been able to keep these gains along with the 18 lbs of weight I gained. (I eat like a horse, at least 5 times a day) Doing PCT now, and have not felt any different. I did catch a little bit of this flu, but I had to work anyway and just kinda got over it. All in all I feel great. I need to check out the Methyl 1-A. Haven't heard anything about it yet.

 

[Smoky]

day 12

Still feeling fine with no sides to report. The adjustment to my training split seems to be for the better. Great pump, very hard. Still increasing weights as I progress. I will assess the overall results once the cycle is complete. I have seemed to pick up about 3/4 of an inch around the middle at this point. Weighed in at 201 this morning. I am abstaining from cardio this week, or at least trying to. Never thought I would miss the cardio.... Anyway in general I seem to be gaining strength. I did notice some awesome vascularity during last night's WO. I find myself looking forward to my WOs just a little more. Energy has not been a problem as of yet. I suppose a lot of this is me learning what is going on, while ON. Learning how it impacts my natural style. Natural style being how I have trained to this point in my life. One might say I am training like I did when I was younger, only smarter. Avoiding over training, and getting the diet in order can be the simplest, but also the most difficult aspects to master in my opinion. Balance of stimulation vs rest, and cycling are functional strategies that have served me well for years.

 

[Smoky]

day 13

. I am feeling strong and hardened most of the day. A simple flex pops ‘em. I believe it to be the Pr kicking in. Get much better pump during WO. My weight hasn’t changed much. Weighed 200# this morning. But as I stated in the beginning I will be watching the macros closely and keeping it tight. Logic tells me I am recomping some as I believe I can see some change. The tape will tell at the end of cycle. So at this point it has been a 5 pound gain on the scale. Today is leg day…

 

[Smoky]

day 14

All is well. Leg WO was great. Increased the weight yet again. Average increase of 10# and from the way it felt I will do the same next time. Without a doubt the strength and stamina have boosted significantly. Still no ugly sides to report. Appetite is up compared to last week. What started out as forcing food is now hunger driven every 2-3 hours. I don't notice any perceptible fat gains and the scales seem to agree. Today is an off day and I plan on enjoying it. Off to eat some more.... :run:

 

[Smoky]

day 15

Nothing notable really! Feeling good. Starting the 3rd week already, time just flying by.

Merry Christmas to all...
... remember to watch the intake over the holidays...

Three Rythms of Life to understand

(1) Economy (what the body does best on it's own)
(2) Efficiency (the body will always seek this , hence lowering effective induced stress)
(3) Variety (stifling the body's return to #1, producing growth)

Know these and succeed. Keep it fresh and challenging, otherwise (1) takes over! Cycles are the way of life, it exists all around us. Train hard, train smart, and mix it up!

 

[Smoky]

day 19

Hope all had a pleasant holiday. Let’s cover how the past few days went. This mornings weight was 204 lbs. I ate all I wanted during the feast but kept it clean. I increased SD to 30 based on my interpretation of how I was responding at 20. I now feel a notable difference in strength gains. I pushed the limits on BP to test and found myself repping 40# over previous. I anticipated this increase and am taking time to warm up properly before stacking the plates up. I don’t need injury hampering me at this point. Hardness is over the top now. I feel pumped up constantly at this point. The appetite took another jump with the increase of SD as well. I am at 4000 cals a day with a 45/50 split of macros. Making sure to get my EFAs. Definitely appear to be leaning out some more. I would venture the tape will show increases across the board and hopefully decreases around the waist. I am considering a lower dose of SD for a fourth week as I transition towards PCT. (Feedback appreciated here...) My current plan is to increase the Pro to 125 on the 4th week as well. If all goes well at that point I may reach for 150mg to finish. My PCT supplements are in place and ready. I am considering adding oral pGH during PCT. Figuring this will assist in leaning out as well as preparing for my next cycle before summer. I am very curious as to how it may impact other age related issues and injuries I have accumulated over the years. Let me say none of the injuries are lifting related. To make a long story short I fell 30 feet once when I was younger. Hip and neck problems that are more irritating than debilitating. I do believe having been a lifter most of my life has protected me from severe injury on various occasions.

As I mentally prepare for PCT I am adjusting my mental goals as well. I am currently planning on maintaining calories till I reach about the second week of PCT. At that point it makes sense to me to start shifting to maintenance calories and running cardio again to help spur the body to produce once again. Hope to be able to keep the weights up as I attempt to hold onto all that I can. Folks are starting to ask how can I eat all that and not get fat? I tell them it’s cause I have lots of iron in my diet… :run:

As I have changed my cycle over the course I will post again for clarity its current config.

SD10/20
SD 20 Pro 100
SD 30 Pro 100
SD 20 Pro 125
Pro 125/150
Pro 125/150

Still no notable sides. Good stretching seems to address most of the reported severe pump issues. I can feel the tightness coming on so I try to work and stretch the muscles as I go. Lethargic is hard to judge with my irratic sleep patterns. but I would dare to say the only noticable change is by days end I am out much quicker once my head hits the pillow.

 

[carib102]

Great log Smoky and good gains..sounds very promising. I am planning on a similar cycle in 2 weeks with Phers-Plex and Orastan. Keep updating I can't wait to see where this takes you in weeks 5 & 6, not to mention PCT...what are you planning for PCT?

 

[Grunt76]

Looks like you are doing well with the 30mg SD. Not many people can take that much. Now if 20mg didn't do much for you, switching back to 20 after a week at 30 seems like it will give you NOTHING so I say if you keep the SD, run it at 30mg. IGF-1 you should love. Are you getting 15 days or 30 days' worth? And bump for PCT plans, IMO it's the most important part of the cycle. Great work man.

 

[Smoky]

Supps and PCT

My PCT is looking like this:

4 weeks +supps

Nolvadex 40/40/20/10
ReboundXT 75/50/25/25
Fenugreek 3/4/5/6
AX_Retain
DHEA
addons:
pGH & Creatine

Supplements: Pre-cycle, during and into PCT
Multi Vitamin
Glucosamine
Flax seed oil
Hawthorne Berries
RYR
Saw Palmetto
Celery Seed
CoQ10
AX Perfect Cycle
Taurine
BCAA

I should have 6 months of pGH as soon as the xmas sale arrives from UniKits. Not sure on how I will apply it yet, but it appears to be ED in the am. Any input on the pGH is appreciated.

 

[Grunt76]

Looks perfect IMO. Except I don't see IGF-1 on Universal's website...

 

[Smoky]

Uh how do they say?.... my bad! :trout:
I work the computer field for a living and I see so many acronyms that I had a brain fart SORRY! pGH is what I am referrring to. Thanks for calling me on that one!

 

[RipdnTxs2]

Great log and results so far, congrats. Do u guys think the nolva is really needed if no sides are noted with all the other pct items in he has in place ???

 

[BrumMac]

Great log which I'm finding very interesting, I ran an SD cycle back in August, was doing well but had to cut it short after 2 weeks. Don't laugh but I got an injury on a damn rollercoaster!.

I'm hoping to start another cycle sometime in the new year so this has been very informative.

 

[Smoky]

day 20

Not at my best today. Not sure if I am fighting a bug or what? Kind of feel like a flu bug is trying to get a hold of me. Appetite is a bit low due to the unstable stomach, but I am pushing what food I can none the less. It stays down, which is a good thing. No other symptoms at this time. Today is leg day which I will put off till tomorrow. Did a full day at work, so it is not hampering much. Just dont feel like I can focus enough for a good workout. :yawn:

 

[Smoky]

day 21

Feeling much better today. Must have been something I ate. I feel back to normal this morning with the appetite to match. Full speed ahead........... :run:
Let this note be made, the decline of food intake seemed to impact how I was feeling as well. As I pushed the food and got some extra rest, things started improving. So I make these observations as well. The 30mg dose most definitely raises the food requirements and doesn’t hesitate to let you know. At 20mg I felt I could have skipped a meal with no adverse effect on how I felt. But at 30mg it's a whole other story. Carbs seem to be more directly related to my overall feeling of well being and energy levels. Fluxuation of protein doesn’t have the same effect. Because of these reactions I feel SD would be no good for cutting at 30mg for me anyway. At 20mg I felt like I could have continued with cardio and achieved a cut.

 

[Smoky]

day 22

Starting the 4th week. All is well, increasing the Pro to 125mg and running SD @ 30 for one more week. About the only adverse thing I have dealt with over the course of this cycle is minor indigestion from some of the supps. Take them with milk or food and no problem at all.

 

[Smoky]

day 23

End of third week so I felt a progress report was needed at this common point of reference by many. All measurements cold in the AM.

Did some calculations and here are my findings.

started 3 wks ago @ 193 lbs. today @ 203 lbs.

BF reduction by 2%
LBM +5lbs.

This week I will attempt to access strength gains. This is also the last week of SD.

Is it possible to lap Pro into PCT? Any comments?

 

[Grunt76]

End of third week so I felt a progress report was needed at this common point of reference by many. All measurements cold in the AM.

Did some calculations and here are my findings.

started 3 wks ago @ 193 lbs. today @ 203 lbs.

BF reduction by 2%
LBM +5lbs.

This week I will attempt to access strength gains. This is also the last week of SD.

Is it possible to lap Pro into PCT? Any comments?

I'm interested in how you figure that... +10 lbs, 4lbs fat down, why are you saying +5lb LBM? You gained 9lbs water?

 

[carib102]

Regarding overlapping the Prostan and PCT I was thinking of doing the same thing on my upcoming PP/Prostan cycle until it was pointed out to me that even though the Prostan is not as strong it is still an exogenous hormone and needs to be respected as such. It will kep you shut down so best thing is to run your PCT after your last dose of Prostan.

Here is the thing, although relatively mild Prostanazol is still an exogenous hormone and will bind with androgen receptors which will keep you shutdown to some extent.
If you are looking to jump start your recovery then I would rec'd starting Clomid the last week of your cycle(week 6); day 1&2 300mg, 3-7 100mg.

 

[Smoky]

I'm interested in how you figure that... +10 lbs, 4lbs fat down, why are you saying +5lb LBM? You gained 9lbs water?

Let me see what I can recall ... I'm old ya know. I believe I calculated BF with a formula. (which I can share if interested) Then I calculated total weight minus % giving lbm. Same formulas with all stats, then comparing lbms it shows a +5 increase. Does that make sense? I do not rely on the formula to provide an accurate percentage. I use it as a point of reference tool. As long as it is used consistently the stats are relative to one another.

Example
A: 100 lbs. @ 10%BF lbm. = 90 lbs.
B: 100 lbs. @ 18%BF lbm. = 82 lbs

Difference of 8 lbs. lbm.

So if I started at B with 18%BF and finished at A with 10%BF then I would have gained 8 lbs. lbm. Theoretically.

Tools I use for monitoring progress/change.

 

[Smoky]

Stats of interest
changes since 12/8/05

Tale of the tape 12/30/05:
thighs +1"
calves +1/4"
waist -1/2"
chest +1"
forearms +1/2"
upperarm +3/8"

Measurements seam to coincide with areas of largest strength gain as well. BP and Squat both did well. I will try to concentrate on arms this week, let's see if gains can be had in the fourth week.

 

[Smoky]

day 28

I am in the final stretch of the SD run. Finishing the fourth week @ 30mg SD and 125mg Pro. Friday I will kick the Pro to 150 and eliminate the SD. At 30mg of SD the shin splints pretty much put the halt to any cardio. Hope to work back into it next week or so. Generaly I have felt good this week and the body is hard. I must say this experience has left me with quite a different impression of chemical enhancement and supplementation. Patience is a virtue without doubt. Do the research, plot your course, and follow through. I only look forward to becoming the best I can be with just a little help from some friends. So I like many others I am sure, am beginning to ponder the next time. The question is to pin or not to pin...