- 12-27-2005, 07:21 PM
- 12-28-2005, 05:01 PM
Not at my best today. Not sure if I am fighting a bug or what? Kind of feel like a flu bug is trying to get a hold of me. Appetite is a bit low due to the unstable stomach, but I am pushing what food I can none the less. It stays down, which is a good thing. No other symptoms at this time. Today is leg day which I will put off till tomorrow. Did a full day at work, so it is not hampering much. Just dont feel like I can focus enough for a good workout.
- 12-29-2005, 09:57 AM
Feeling much better today. Must have been something I ate. I feel back to normal this morning with the appetite to match. Full speed ahead...........
Let this note be made, the decline of food intake seemed to impact how I was feeling as well. As I pushed the food and got some extra rest, things started improving. So I make these observations as well. The 30mg dose most definitely raises the food requirements and doesnít hesitate to let you know. At 20mg I felt I could have skipped a meal with no adverse effect on how I felt. But at 30mg it's a whole other story. Carbs seem to be more directly related to my overall feeling of well being and energy levels. Fluxuation of protein doesnít have the same effect. Because of these reactions I feel SD would be no good for cutting at 30mg for me anyway. At 20mg I felt like I could have continued with cardio and achieved a cut.
Starting the 4th week. All is well, increasing the Pro to 125mg and running SD @ 30 for one more week. About the only adverse thing I have dealt with over the course of this cycle is minor indigestion from some of the supps. Take them with milk or food and no problem at all.
End of third week so I felt a progress report was needed at this common point of reference by many. All measurements cold in the AM.
Did some calculations and here are my findings.
started 3 wks ago @ 193 lbs. today @ 203 lbs.
BF reduction by 2%
This week I will attempt to access strength gains. This is also the last week of SD.
Is it possible to lap Pro into PCT? Any comments?
- 5'9" 272 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Rep Power
I'm interested in how you figure that... +10 lbs, 4lbs fat down, why are you saying +5lb LBM? You gained 9lbs water?Originally Posted by Smoky
Regarding overlapping the Prostan and PCT I was thinking of doing the same thing on my upcoming PP/Prostan cycle until it was pointed out to me that even though the Prostan is not as strong it is still an exogenous hormone and needs to be respected as such. It will kep you shut down so best thing is to run your PCT after your last dose of Prostan.
Originally Posted by jonny21
Let me see what I can recall ... I'm old ya know. I believe I calculated BF with a formula. (which I can share if interested) Then I calculated total weight minus % giving lbm. Same formulas with all stats, then comparing lbms it shows a +5 increase. Does that make sense? I do not rely on the formula to provide an accurate percentage. I use it as a point of reference tool. As long as it is used consistently the stats are relative to one another.Originally Posted by Grunt76
A: 100 lbs. @ 10%BF lbm. = 90 lbs.
B: 100 lbs. @ 18%BF lbm. = 82 lbs
Difference of 8 lbs. lbm.
So if I started at B with 18%BF and finished at A with 10%BF then I would have gained 8 lbs. lbm. Theoretically.
Tools I use for monitoring progress/change.
Stats of interest
changes since 12/8/05
Tale of the tape 12/30/05:
Measurements seam to coincide with areas of largest strength gain as well. BP and Squat both did well. I will try to concentrate on arms this week, let's see if gains can be had in the fourth week.
I am in the final stretch of the SD run. Finishing the fourth week @ 30mg SD and 125mg Pro. Friday I will kick the Pro to 150 and eliminate the SD. At 30mg of SD the shin splints pretty much put the halt to any cardio. Hope to work back into it next week or so. Generaly I have felt good this week and the body is hard. I must say this experience has left me with quite a different impression of chemical enhancement and supplementation. Patience is a virtue without doubt. Do the research, plot your course, and follow through. I only look forward to becoming the best I can be with just a little help from some friends. So I like many others I am sure, am beginning to ponder the next time. The question is to pin or not to pin...
Has the libido taken a hit on this cycle? And has anyone else run the SD solo and then another cycle with the Pro in order to tell a difference in holding gains?
All systems are functional but the interest is not there, as I am focused on my goals and seasoned by divorce. I believe there may be some shrinkage but very slight at this point.
I'm really interested in seeing what this last week with just the prostan does for you in terms of holding/adding to gains, hardness, vascularity. I will be doing something similar with PP/Prostan beginning this weekend so will have my eye on your results for this last week of your cycle. Everything is looking great so far bro!
Dropped the SD today. Planning to run the Pro for 2 more weeks then I am closing the door on this cycle. Weight was up to 208 this morning.
Great log Smoky. Quick question just to be clear, are you only running the sd/prost/above listed supps during the cycle? No RXT or DHEA - those are only for PCT? I'm impressed that you're not having much suppression.Originally Posted by Smoky
You are correct. The dhea and RXT come in during PCT.
Update:Originally Posted by Smoky
end of SD cycle, change since last tale of the tape.
1/7/06 -------------------- total since start
thighs +1/2" ------------ + 1 1/2"
calves +1/4" ------------ + 1/2"
waist +3/4" ------------ + 1/4"
chest +1/2" ------------ + 1 1/2"
forearms +1/4" ---------- + 3/4"
upperarm +1/4" --------- + 7/8"
great gains, good log !!!!
It's mid-week of the fifth week. First week of Pro solo for 2 weeks. I have dropped back down to 100mg of Pro for various reasons. My schedule has been hectic which has made dosage timing erratic. It seems faults first creep in as supplementation errors, then food intake levels suffer when schedule conflicts arise. So I am adjusting to maintain as much continuity as possible. I also felt no substantial effect above 100mg. keeping in mind I am also trying to judge the lingering effects of SD as well. I generally didnít like the way I felt above 100 as well. So common sense said back off. I have lost what I will call the SD pump. The Pro does lend itself to hardening but not like it did with SD. The pump was constant and almost seemingly heavy at times, in the quads and arms. I am maintaining weight lifted at this point. I am also falling back towards maintenance calories, but I tend to cycle my intake based on activity levels and interpretation of my current state. I also intend to experiment a bit to get an idea of the cutting potentials of Pro as well. I basically will be using a yo-yo diet. Some seem to refer to this as periodic refeeds. I find I can maintain energy levels quite well and yet drop my overall calorie intake.
Libido update ... The boys were beginning to feel different, as if they were bound up or something. I had noted earlier a noticeable lack of interest, but not sure how much is what as this is my first round of being suppressed. Based on this I have decided to start DHEA and Trib. I have been on them for 3 days and notice the return of morning wood, so it appears to be a good decision at this time. With my understanding of DHEA and its ability to become either TEST or E, I am watching for signs of high E. Perhaps someone can supplement this perception pro or con.
I don't know about DHEA going either way to T or E but I was doing 100mg doses of DHEA 3x/day with my nolva and my drive came back way faster than on nolva solo. I don't know how the Pro effects libido and that's why I was interested so much in your journal. I have a new girlfriend and I would hate to be a "no show" only two months into the relationship..LOL, but it is the sacrifice I shall make for my body. Your diet sounds similar to mine minus the yo-yo thing after ending a cycle. I am interested in where things head for you as I am into day 3 of my SD cycle.
Time to catch up: All seems to be well at this point. Strength still climbing all around. The Pro appears to lend a constant level of hardness, and a quicker pump during WO. Since the addition of Trib and DHEA the libido is on the rise. I have one more scheduled week of Pro then PCT begins. I may terminate when this bottle of Pro runs out about mid week. Just seems to be a logical stopping point. As for the cost effectivness of Pro I am beginning to think the money could be spent elsewhere with better results. Of course as the price falls it becomes more appealing as a tool in a cutting cycle. I have been sleeping somewhat better since coming off the SD it appears. Taking advantage of the opportunities as I can. I started cardio again. Will have to work my way back in, the shin splints were allot easier without the SD, but still enough discomfort to limit me to about half of previous limits. Anyone got any tips on dealing with or working through these darn shin splints?
Looking into the true neccesity of the Nolva with no apparent sides indicative of its need. As the Trib and DHEA work towards restoring the T, RXT and Retain should or could clean it it all up, or should I look more at the newer anti-Es? Comments appreciated.
Without going back and seeing what you were doing for cardio I would imagine anything without actual impact would be better for the shin splints (eliptical, bike, arc). When I played rugby back in the day I had them to the point it hurt to walk. The trainer recommended this sort of ace bandage looking thing that basically went around the shin area. Between the ice cups on the shins at night and the shin supports they were much better but there is no true way to heal them without stopping impact.
As far as the nolva I would add it to PCT. I think my PCT has been better than the guys I know that chose to go with the RXT.
What brand of Trib did you go with?
Cardio is getting easier I think as SD leaves the system. I was able to go a bit longer. I walk a treadmill as the impact of jogging is more than I can take. The Trib is from Optimum, as it runs out I will be trying High Power brand.
I have decided to finish the week out on Pro. Then I will have my best understanding and experience of its effect. I have noticed the elbows are a bit sore, not sure if its the Pro or the stress levels. I am taking joint supplements as well.
So far I have added
I feel I have done a wonderful job adding lean mass, now if I could strip some more BF it would be nice. I am down to losing the toughest for me. The love handle/mid section and lower chest area. My goal is to achieve a visible six pack after all these years. Mass has never been a problem for me only getting lean. I am currently researching cutting cycles and related chemicals. It appears that Albuterol may be a good choice to assist in achieving that chisled look.
hi i have a ? iam 35 trying to lose some pounds i have 6ox and superdrol was thinking of doing 10 mg of superdrol with 6-ox to lose a few pounds with cardio and 1800 diet will this work or will the sd put weight on with 10 and i am doing eca
It is probably best to ask this question in a new thread. Reason being I would want to know much more about your background before giving any opinions and don't want to hi-jack Smoky's thread...oh you may also want to use the search tool a bit as there is a wealth of information already out there that would be pertinent to your question.Originally Posted by jim brooks
I agree lets not hi-jack this thread. Any questions you may have that are directly relative to the scope of this thread please fire away. I will glady assist in any way I can if you choose to start a new thread. None the less I wont send you away empty handed. I think it best if you choose to bulk or cut. Trying to do both is not the most efficient but it can be done. (slower less productive) Commonly referred to as recomposition. This cycle's goal was that I wanted to grow but remain as lean as possible or leaner if the conditions allowed. By making this choice I sacrifice some gains. In the context of my cycle I purposely looked for the edge if you will, of gain vs loss. Basicaly I deployed a lowend surplus of macronutients of 3500-4000 cals, with periodic refeeds. (loading complex carbs) If I pushed the food harder the weight came easy. To keep this simple ... I found Prostanozol effective for cutting but think SD NOT unless gaining is part of the picture. Just isnt worth it for all that you wish to achieve IMO. I have recently added SesaMax and it appears to be producing results but I really wish to refrain from commenting on its performance just yet. Diet and exercise are still the biggest keys to loss. Learn to control your diet if you have not for it is the foundation of all else you may attempt to achieve or experiment with. Pretty much the single largest control you have in your hand and its virtualy safe. I make no assumption as to what you may or may not already know. Hope I helped you some how or at least got you pointed in the right direction.
Update for ME:
Still gaining strength, I will do the tale of the tape this coming weekend, as it will be the end of cycle. Hello PCT! Generaly feel a bit lethargic, but if I get up and go all is well. AX Rampage has been a good addition as well. It appears I am leaning more as I am just about to maintenance calories with weekly hi carb days. Maybe one cheat day at most, usualy incorporated with the cheat. Body weight is down a few pounds with no loss in strength, only gains. Cardio has been progressing this week. My goals for this summer are on track at this point. Planning one more cycle that should finish as summer begins if all continues to go well. More than likely will be a cycle of PP and Pro.
I have added pGH to PCT. 1st dose was yesterday. Took my final Pro today and will commence PCT tomorrow.
.5cc ED PM 5 on - 2 off
First day of PCT
Everything is in place. Last night was the PM dose of pGH IM (delt). I think I slept worse vs the mid day IM. No shortness of breathe or flush of any kind. Today is Shoulder/Back day. Anxious to hit the iron.
All things going well. Appear to be reducing BF as the weight is falling but strength is holding. Today is BP day so we will see how it goes. Last two days were off days as well as a 2 off for the pGH. Got plenty of rest and ready to hit the iron yet another week.
PCT is going well. Still making gains. Once again I adding Creatine and glutamine back into the mix. Feeling pretty good overall, and the cardio is in place. I have had two cheat meals (mexican and pizza) during PCT with no apparent negative effects. Kept the quantities reasonable and didnt go overboard.
Any questions let them rip. I puposely post only what I feel is of relelvance to share. Figuring most dont wish to be bored with the same old. I appologize if I overlooked something, or just ask and I will attempt to answer to the best of my ability.
How did you space your dosage of SD when you went to 30mg/d??
I am just finishing up my second week at 20 mg/d and feeling little effects with no sides.. I am 250lbs so I am going to bump it to 30 for the last week.
You said you had two cheat meals, but when I did my cycle on SD I had a huge appetite. Have you had ant trouble controlling that? Seemed Like I wanted a cheat meal everyday.Originally Posted by Smoky
I took it as a single dose in the AM.Originally Posted by biker340
I hope this answer does not over complicate it. Yes the temptations are there, but with age comes discipline. It is much easier now that it was when I was 20 something. When I say cheat, I mean other than eating clean. I did not restrict calories if my body tells me otherwise. (unless I am cutting so to speak) I eat instinctively as much as I can. Understand as I see it the body adapts and adjusts always. (Some might better see this as "get used too conditions") So once I calculate my meals and get used to them, it is easy to let the body tell me. I find that it is easier to stay leaner for me. I put on weight very easy. I feel the closer you can get to harmony with your body the better you are emotionally and physically. As we age we learn to not take so much for granted mostly. So I am always watching and sensitive to changes. Experience tells me how to respond in respect to my diet. As I learn about other substances I also learn how my body responds. Every now and then a new twist comes along, so dont go and get to complacent, it is quite easy to fall into it. Example would be pGH. I find that I very easily feel hypoglycemic if I dont eat often enough.Originally Posted by Spartan117
Pretty much boils down to learn your body naturaly without enhancements. With the aquired skills you will be able to master the macros and WO's. Adding anything else at that point builds on that foundation with good results and retainability. It's all about what and how we eat ....
All is well. Strength holding and BF is melting away. It appears the addition of pGH to PCT has been a good choice.
I must say this PCT is not at all what I expected. The addition of pGH seems to be the major component bringing the BF down faster than I could have imagined. I am consuming at least maintenance calories (clean) and still losing BF at quite a rate. This morning my weight is back to 194 which is one pound heavier than when I started my cycle. I am still able to push the weights and managing to make smaller gains as well. No doubt I am leaner all around. I have lost some size which I believe is mostly due to BF reduction, and increased in some areas. The most significant change is in the waist line. There is no doubt that it also has effected my appetite. I tend to feel a tightness if you will within the stomach itself. Until I consume adequate calories and protien it holds constant. The single most significant factor I notice is that endurance/stamina are not as high as they were on cycle. I expected this none the less. So based on my current state of mind and present condition I look forward to the next growth cycle.
3rd week of PCT and all is going according to plan. The libido seems down a bit, all else seems to be in order otherwise. I did the pGH after cardio this morning and noticed the rush was close to nil. The taste was weaker as well. Yesterday was Back and I got a great pump. Seemed better than anything I have had during this PCT. Still on track for my six pack summer...
Great log, Smoky!
A couple of q's....
What is your total PCT regimine?
What is pGH?
Thanks!Originally Posted by Old Poser
Here is my schedule:
pGH .5cc ED 5on 2off
creatine and glutamine
I chose to phase out the SERM a week early as well as the DHEA and Trib. All is well except for a dip in libido. Boyz are hanging well as they say. Been doing some research on SERMS and such, it does make for some explosive controversy at times. It appears to me that Nolva is somewhat suppresive of the libido due to its effect on estrogen. I believe it to be a needed component (from what I understand) for the proper operation of the sexual male. Perhaps someone can offer up support or the contrary to this. I believe I have garnered the needed benefits so.., just need to taper it off at that point.
pGH in a nutshell is a blend of amino acids and such that are reported to stimulate GH production and assorted benefits. I will refer you to the Uni-Kits site for full product info. For my experiments it is helping reduce BF for sure. It may have helped with recovery from shrinkage but I atribute most to DHEA and Trib. In my 4th week of SD the shut down came on pretty quick. I added those to the mix and things started looking up shortly thereafter. I started pGH 3 days prior to PCT. So it wasn't in the program yet.
Hope I answered your questions adequately.
Thanks for the rapid and detailed answers. I found all the other stuff, but, I'm sorry, but I've got a couple more q's...
I went to look for fenugreek and found it in many things. Could you help me find a form of the root that is dosed as you suggest? I have the same q for trib. What form (i.e. mg per dose) or brand are you using?
I hope this doesn't sound to picky, but your results encourage me and I want to know what you're doing.
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