Opinions re injury for an older guy + crossfit
- 03-13-2013, 01:50 AM
Opinions re injury for an older guy + crossfit
So I'm fishing for opinions here. I have an older friend, somewhat past 50, who asked me for exercise advice recently after suffering an injury to his glute/hamstring from cross country skiing. I told him that once his injury was recovered he needed to start doing squats & deadlifts to strengthen that area, in order to avoid future injury.
What he did was, visit a local chiro who shall remain nameless. This quack I mean "doctor", told him he needs treatment for 1 year (he tells everyone that), and recommended he take up crossfit.
Now, you need to remember that my friend, while an active person, has never done a deadlift or squat in his life. I found out about this when I did a follow up with him, I asked how he was progressing with his weight lifting and he told me about the chiro etc. I told him what I thought of that guy, and that a year for a soft tissue injury was outright stupid, and recommended a good massage therapist.
I'm also going to personally spend a little time with him in the gym to show him how to deadlift & squat, provided he's willing.
So, any yea's or nays regarding my recommendations to my friend? Did I miss anything? I was pretty blown away that a chiro would tell an injured person he needed a year's treatment and at the same time recommend he take up crossfit, of all things. I think if I give my pal even a minimum amount of guidance I can have him up & running in a matter of a couple weeks.
- 03-13-2013, 09:21 AM
There may very well be physical limitations that prevent him from squatting correctly if he has never done them. Mobility work may be necessary for a while prior to even beginning to squat. No disrespect intended but you may be over your head to attempt to train someone >50 with probable mobility issues. This requires a special skill set you may not have.
Please tell us how you would approach this problem, better yet, put up a vid of your squat. This will help us assess if your in a position to even teach someone >50 a very technical lift.
- 03-13-2013, 09:52 AM
Re: Opinions re injury for an older guy + crossfit
Show him this Crossfit injury rate
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"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
03-13-2013, 10:52 AM
03-13-2013, 01:00 PM
03-13-2013, 01:02 PM
03-13-2013, 01:08 PM
I think you're on point so far. I don't like chiro's for that reason myself - their treatments are always structured so they trickle bits and pieces of info session by session to make you pay for more sessions. While I think their knowledge and expertise is real, they're thieves, and one should be wary of their antics.
Check your form: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/190675-proper-techniques.html
03-13-2013, 03:40 PM
Well at 50 and without much if any experience doing those big lifts, I think there are better choices for him, at least at first to get some training to his pos chain.
Suitcase lifts or trap bar deads (and with an elevated handle at first until you find his ROM) will be easier on his low back than a straight bar.
Leg presses can work too and are a bit safer
Even some BW exercises to get ROM and find his leverages and creaky areas maybe
The thing to remember is, if the area is already somewhat compromised, and recovery for older guys is not what it is for young ones, you just have to watch where you go with certain things. While squats could eventually work for the area, they can be tough on the knees for older guys, so you don't want to replace one problem with another.
03-13-2013, 03:53 PM
I will give my input to the chiro input. They all are not quacks. There are chiropractors who are WELLNESS chiropractors who are about overall health. Chiropractors are about separating subluxations in your back to release the pressure developed for many reasons to allow your spine to realign itself on its own. I don't agree with the one your friend is seeing and recommend locating he type I described. My entire family has been seeing one for the last 6 yrs including my 1 year old since he was born. Problems in your alignment can result into problems wih organs and muscles since every function of your body begins with your spine. I know you or others who responded may not agree but believe me when I tell you I will never stop going due to the benefits I get from the service. Btw, I'm almost 40 and bench/squat/dead 400+. I bench 3 times a week sometimes and compete in powerlifting events. 13 in the last 2.5 years. I relocated in the last 3 months and found another WELLNESS chiro who is along the same path as my previous one. Hope this helps.
03-13-2013, 04:55 PM
400 is an impressive bench but are your stats correct? Do you really weigh 347? Holee man. I'm 46 & got a PR on the bench a couple weeks ago at 280, but I only weigh 190.
03-13-2013, 05:27 PM
I just came in to make sure someone told him to run and run fast from any CF crap.
I don't see anything wrong with teaching him how to do compound lifts in a very light and controlled manner. Age doesn't matter as I have posted before about my 73yo dad still squatting 275 and benching 300. The knees aren't what they were but he is still killing it.
Like napalm mentioned though, there is nothing wrong with showing him some basic movements and giving advice, but he may want to get a PT or someone that specializes in active people that just don't know the gym.
03-13-2013, 05:36 PM
I think he should find a trainer. A good one. He likely needs a bit more help then you're willing to help him out with, because like you said, you're busy. I think jumping right into the big lifts is a bad idea. I think working up to them and being able to perform them down the road could make a world of difference.
Either way, some mobility work and a few of the more basic compound exercises are probably better for him. Young guys can jump right in pretty easily older guys need to get their feet wet first.
03-13-2013, 05:38 PM
I'm going to amaze myself here. I don't do crossfit and never would, but so long as your friend does it GRADUALLY and moderate to low intensity instead of the rabid pace crossfit groups try to set you to I think its a good idea at his age.
03-13-2013, 10:55 PM
Sounds like the chiro is setting himself up with patients for life by recommending they go do Crossfit. Scumbag.
03-13-2013, 11:02 PM
03-13-2013, 11:25 PM
03-14-2013, 12:03 AM
I have a One year old son and with one due August. Mama isn't happy. She wanted to wait another year.
Ya, I agree with good and bad chiropractors. No one should not automatically suggest a year treatment. A more common answer would have been 3 visits a week for a month. Then two a week then two every other until he is down to 2 a month for maintenance..
Btw, thanks for the compliment computing. I have programs to help your bench if you like them. Just m me.
03-14-2013, 02:50 AM
I'm confused and unsettled with this. ^^^^^What gives you the idea a 1 year old needs to visit a chiro? I'm sorry but as a father myself i find this completely unnecessary and absurd, frankly im disgusted and that's being as polite as i can right now for what I'm really thinking. I'd really love to hear this rationalized
03-14-2013, 02:59 AM
Furthermore, I can make the same rant and disgust about all the people on this forum who utilize AAS, pinning or eve HRT but I don't. Believe me, my son is doing very well, thank you. Just sad you have a side ways opinion without the research doesn't make you an expert.'research how people, especially kids have bad long term ailments cured with chiropractor visits versus pills any doctor is willing to write for you. People are more willing to pop pills as opposed to find out why their body is acting the way it is naturally. A chiro can help people most times than a drug can. My chiro has six kids and treats them all. Appreciate your response. Salute!
03-14-2013, 06:38 AM
That said, from what I understand of chiros, they want or feel your treatment, is a life long endeavor and keeping you in a certain alignment is how they try and protect your health. I suppose they are no different than your regular MD's when it comes to reg 6 month checkups etc.
When I was younger, I used to go pretty religiously and a good friend of mine is a chiro. I am not sold anymore on them really, but if they help you to get better, then use them and don't apologize for it.
The only question/red flag I might have about an Xfit routine for a 50+ y/o with an injury, is the explosive nature exercises, ie: C&J and snatch, that are in some of the Xfits repertoire. IMO there are better, safer ways, to get cardio, strength, GPP, work capacity and overall fit, then certain routines set up for very young, highly flexible, risk taking youngsters.
I am glad your dad is still doing this stuff and continues to do so. I also hope to be doing it into my 80's like Glossbrenner and Atomic Freddie Peterson. The truth is however, these guys are far from the norm and should not be used as guidelines for the masses especially if they are not accustomed to lifting much.I don't see anything wrong with teaching him how to do compound lifts in a very light and controlled manner. Age doesn't matter as I have posted before about my 73yo dad still squatting 275 and benching 300. The knees aren't what they were but he is still killing it.
Many 60+ guys, have trouble with low and uppers back issues, knees and shoulders, and designing a good all round program for each individual to especially address their specific needs is best IMO.
03-14-2013, 10:13 AM
03-14-2013, 12:13 PM
Kids are awesome man. I have 3 and the older 2 are all trained up at rock climbing, my youngest is 5 and she's going for her first lesson today. Some people might go on about safety, personally I've always said driving to the mountains is more dangerous than climbing. Some people are quick to judge parents, they see we're vulnerable w.r.t. to our kids I suppose.
Here's a pic of my oldest from a couple summers ago.
I've sent you a message about the bench programs.
03-14-2013, 12:44 PM
03-14-2013, 03:00 PM
hokie-"First off he has been going heifer he turned one! The same reason your back gets out of alignment from SITTING, SLEEPING OR ANY OTHER ACCIDENTAL BUMP Or FALL YOU TAKE. Secondly, they take more falls and bumps than we do. Absurd you say, I took a 10 foot fall off a slide in 3rd grade aNd went home. I found out three years ago my lower back and tailbone are fused together from the way it healed, never knew to see a chiro to get adjusted. "
Sounds like an issue a responsible adult should have taken care of and taken you to a hospital for X-rays after a fall like that.
Hokie-"Be disgusted all you want. I don't tell you how to live life. Frankly since I stand 6'5" and 352lbs I'm sure you would t have a problem telling me in person how you feel like anyone else I meet.m"
Really? A tough guy statement on the Internet? Look here bub , I fear no man and I'm always open with my opinion regardless of how big and tough that man is or thinks he is. Also although you're correct you run your life however you want but if you go posting it on the Internet or bringing it up in public you subject yourself to others opinions regardless. So learn to deal with it or keep your mouth shut if you don't want to hear opposition to what others disagree with. Just cus you see it as the thing to do and do it doesn't make it right and you the all knowing.
Hokie -"Furthermore, I can make the same rant and disgust about all the people on this forum who utilize AAS, pinning or eve HRT but I don't. Believe me, my son is doing very well, thank you. Just sad you have a side ways opinion without the research doesn't make you an expert.'research how people, especially kids have bad long term ailments cured with chiropractor visits versus pills any doctor is willing to write for you. People are more willing to pop pills as opposed to find out why their body is acting the way it is naturally. A chiro can help people most times than a drug can. My chiro has six kids and treats them all. Appreciate your response. Salute!"
I'd love you to show this research you speak of to straighten out my "sideways opinion" about why a chiro needs to be "adjusting" a one year olds bone structure. Get some scientific data and post it. Where's the research you read to validate that? Ill be happy to read it. Just because you feed your whole family to a chiro and believe in it does not make you and expert. Furthermore debating health advice with a guy that says he got big sitting on the couch chowing Mickey Ds is just a waste so I won't go there.
Yes I ****ed up the quotes so I used quotation mark. Damn iPhone
03-14-2013, 04:02 PM
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