To TRT or not to TRT

  1. To TRT or not to TRT


    So, I have read an enormous amount on here, other forums, medical references, etc, about TRT. I have all the symptoms of Lo T; decreased energy/motivation, concentration and focus slipping, lack of libido, increased abdominal fat (even with good diet and exercise) and lo T, well about 300. I am 45, not sure I want to pin forever, but would like to try and see how this treats me. I have had extensive bloods done twice and I have been approved for TRT through a company I was picked up from a thread on one of the boards. Basically a TRT/Anti-aging company, seemingly legit, pharma grade stuff, mail order to me. Checked out the pharmacy they draw from, looks good, compounding pharmacy.

    So my question is if I run this 3-6 months, can I do the HCG/Clomid/Nolva recovery route and be fine to go off the program? I know theoretically you can, but there are a lot more experienced people here that might beg to differ. My guess is once you run it for too long, it's forever, but can I get away with it 3-6 months only, without messing everything up ?

    It's 200mg test /week, .5mg Anastrozole x1 week, and 500iu's HCG x2 week. My plan was to run it for the 3-6 months and take a break and see from there.

    Thanks for any input...


  2. Why not just go to your local doc?
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  3. I wouldn't, and 200/week isn't TRT. It's a crapshoot at 45 that running hcg/clomid/nolva will bring you back to even 300-400 range and youd be right back where you started IMO...

    Either commit or don't...

    Sent from my iPhone using Am.com

  4. Quote Originally Posted by rdent95 View Post
    So, I have read an enormous amount on here, other forums, medical references, etc, about TRT. I have all the symptoms of Lo T; decreased energy/motivation, concentration and focus slipping, lack of libido, increased abdominal fat (even with good diet and exercise) and lo T, well about 300. I am 45, not sure I want to pin forever, but would like to try and see how this treats me. I have had extensive bloods done twice and I have been approved for TRT through a company I was picked up from a thread on one of the boards. Basically a TRT/Anti-aging company, seemingly legit, pharma grade stuff, mail order to me. Checked out the pharmacy they draw from, looks good, compounding pharmacy.

    So my question is if I run this 3-6 months, can I do the HCG/Clomid/Nolva recovery route and be fine to go off the program? I know theoretically you can, but there are a lot more experienced people here that might beg to differ. My guess is once you run it for too long, it's forever, but can I get away with it 3-6 months only, without messing everything up ?

    It's 200mg test /week, .5mg Anastrozole x1 week, and 500iu's HCG x2 week. My plan was to run it for the 3-6 months and take a break and see from there.

    Thanks for any input...
    Man I am a newbie but I am on 3 mg of Anastrozole per week at 160mg (per my physician). Your numbers seem low as I was on more when I started at 80 per week..... I guess everyone's body is different.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by rdent95 View Post

    It's 200mg test /week, .5mg Anastrozole x1 week, and 500iu's HCG x2 week. My plan was to run it for the 3-6 months and take a break and see from there.

    Thanks for any input...
    100mg test /week, .25mg Anastrozole every 2-4 days and 250IU HCG two or three times per week seems a little more reasonable to me but who am I to say. If you are wanting TRT and not a cycle then I think a lower dose is enough and you need to allow a longer time to try it out. If you have had low test for some time, it takes a while for testosterone receptors to be up regulated such that you get the benefit of a higher test level. Apparently when you have low test your testosterone receptors sort of shut down, or down regulate. I have also read that different low test symptoms resolve at different rates and that some symptoms can take up to a year to improve. Considering the benefits of high test, I think it's worth committing to for the long run.
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  6. You could attempt the Clomid route as that seems to work for some people and doesn't commit you to test. But, if you really do have low test and not something else causing it, then I don't know why you wouldn't want to commit. Do you like having all the symptoms that you described? Not me, man. Life's too short to not try and feel great.
  7. Thumbs up


    Quote Originally Posted by BJE View Post
    100mg test /week, .25mg Anastrozole every 2-4 days and 250IU HCG two or three times per week seems a little more reasonable to me but who am I to say. If you are wanting TRT and not a cycle then I think a lower dose is enough and you need to allow a longer time to try it out. If you have had low test for some time, it takes a while for testosterone receptors to be up regulated such that you get the benefit of a higher test level. Apparently when you have low test your testosterone receptors sort of shut down, or down regulate. I have also read that different low test symptoms resolve at different rates and that some symptoms can take up to a year to improve. Considering the benefits of high test, I think it's worth committing to for the long run.
    Well said!

  8. Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    Why not just go to your local doc?
    If you mean my GP, he ran the first test, and claimed it was fine, don't think he will go anywhere with it. I'm debating going to an Endo as the lethargy lately has gotten worse. I have let up slightly on my clean , Lo carb diet the last month or so, wondering if that could be part of the increased lethargy part....

  9. Quote Originally Posted by BJE View Post
    100mg test /week, .25mg Anastrozole every 2-4 days and 250IU HCG two or three times per week seems a little more reasonable to me but who am I to say. If you are wanting TRT and not a cycle then I think a lower dose is enough and you need to allow a longer time to try it out. If you have had low test for some time, it takes a while for testosterone receptors to be up regulated such that you get the benefit of a higher test level. Apparently when you have low test your testosterone receptors sort of shut down, or down regulate. I have also read that different low test symptoms resolve at different rates and that some symptoms can take up to a year to improve. Considering the benefits of high test, I think it's worth committing to for the long run.
    I have been reading that at 100 or so split twice a week, you might be able to get away without other ancillaries. That would be best I think if possible. I think I will go for the TRT, but might check with an Endo first to make sure we're not missing something else first, then if not... Go for the Test

    Thanks for the input guys...

  10. Quote Originally Posted by rdent95 View Post
    If you mean my GP, he ran the first test, and claimed it was fine, don't think he will go anywhere with it. I'm debating going to an Endo as the lethargy lately has gotten worse. I have let up slightly on my clean , Lo carb diet the last month or so, wondering if that could be part of the increased lethargy part....
    If one doctor believes you dont require TRT than your levels MUSN'T be too far out. I wouldn't commit to TRT unless absolutely NEEDED. Id just run 4 weeks of clomid @ 100/80/70/50.
    I'm certain that would bring you back ABOVE normal. At least give it a go before you commit to TRT ?.
    If the low test feeling is due to a cycle you've run and not feeling recovered, I think it is HIGHLY LIKELY that the SERM/AI You used was bunk...
    A lot of people go for the sites where you can get Clomid for like $14 but a lot of them wouldn't be Clomid at all, or severely underdosed.
    You should try running another PCT but make sure its from a reputable site. There's one (which I think may be a sponsor on here?) which is one of the longest running and most reputable companies around and for a bit higher cost you can have peace of mind that your ingesting the substance you intended and it's doing it's job..


    PM me if you want bro..
    "I need your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle"

  11. Quote Originally Posted by rdent95 View Post
    So, I have read an enormous amount on here, other forums, medical references, etc, about TRT. I have all the symptoms of Lo T; decreased energy/motivation, concentration and focus slipping, lack of libido, increased abdominal fat (even with good diet and exercise) and lo T, well about 300. I am 45, not sure I want to pin forever, but would like to try and see how this treats me. I have had extensive bloods done twice and I have been approved for TRT through a company I was picked up from a thread on one of the boards. Basically a TRT/Anti-aging company, seemingly legit, pharma grade stuff, mail order to me. Checked out the pharmacy they draw from, looks good, compounding pharmacy.

    So my question is if I run this 3-6 months, can I do the HCG/Clomid/Nolva recovery route and be fine to go off the program? I know theoretically you can, but there are a lot more experienced people here that might beg to differ. My guess is once you run it for too long, it's forever, but can I get away with it 3-6 months only, without messing everything up ?

    It's 200mg test /week, .5mg Anastrozole x1 week, and 500iu's HCG x2 week. My plan was to run it for the 3-6 months and take a break and see from there.

    Thanks for any input...
    You're in the same boat as me, I'm 44. My test came back at 248 so my doctor put me on pretty much exactly the same as you mentioned. Before I went on TRT, I asked my doctor if i'll ever get back to normal levels (500 would be fine with me, or any level that made me feel ok). He told me most likely not. Reason being is that testosterone starts to drop at our age so even with HCG and clomid you are likely to get back to where you were (300) but not more. I wouldn't do 200mg of test cyp for 3-6 months as it's not enough to cycle. I am planning on being on TRT for the next 10-15 years then going off when I retire. My wife is a lot younger than me and I have three small boys to keep up with. My only problem is that my first shot was last Monday and was fine, didn't hurt at all until Wednesday and still hurting today (my doctor did this one in quad).
  12. To TRT or not to TRT


    200 mg test per week of Test Cyp would put you well above 500. Get your bloods after 4-5 weeks. Morning draw.

    100 mg per week would put you at 650-700 easy.

    200 would have you kicking past 1200.

    How on earth did your doc explain you would hit 300. Natty test boosters can yield a 100-200 point gain for crying out loud.

    Now pinning sub q gets you a 20% increase yielding you an extra 80mg of test every two weeks. I've got the research around here somewhere.

    I bet you test at 1500> after 5 weeks if you use sub q.
    Nobody ever waited for the sun to rise before attempting Everest!
    Leave them better for having met you. Be a kind and thoughtful person, nothing is more important.
    -My dad

  13. This thread is three years old.

    There are some inaccurate statements though. TRT dosage, like any medication, is an individual response and need for treatment. 200mg/T weekly gets me to ~650 blood levels from multiple testings. Also, TRT is for life, just like insulin. If you're deficient in production of a hormone you don't cycle the required medication.
    Lift heavy and eat lots of dead animals! Yes, that's me in my avatar.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    200 mg test per week of Test Cyp would put you well above 500. Get your bloods after 4-5 weeks. Morning draw.

    100 mg per week would put you at 650-700 easy.

    200 would have you kicking past 1200.

    How on earth did your doc explain you would hit 300. Natty test boosters can yield a 100-200 point gain for crying out loud.

    Now pinning sub q gets you a 20% increase yielding you an extra 80mg of test every two weeks. I've got the research around here somewhere.

    I bet you test at 1500> after 5 weeks if you use sub q.
    Nurses are advised to inject hormones IM, and all the pharmacology Ive read re test injections is exclusively IM.

    If you have any data demonstrating sub-q to be superior, man, Id love to read it.
    Olympus UK
    PM me for help with products and discounts

  15. Sub-q is nothing new, it is just being recognized as an option to help stabilize some of the peaks and valleys that can be experienced even with 2x weekly injections IM.

  16. To a certain extent arent peaks and valleys "good/desirable" occurences, ie they more mimic natural rhythms? That is, as long as the high/lows are still within the normal physiological range.
    Olympus UK
    PM me for help with products and discounts

  17. No, you really want to minimize this as the effects of exogenous test are not mimicking the normal daily fluctuations. The effects on TRT are much more pronounced as you are not going through a 24 hour hormone cycle, rather a high peak after injection and then a slow decline until the next injection. The difference in a day for someone not on exogenous test are generally 10-20% from waking until evening. That is much different than a 50-60% drop that can be experienced from inject day to inject day on TRT, even for someone with a frequent injection protocol.

  18. I would love to do sub q shots and read it's okay to do, however, my doctor is against it. Any reason why? as far as the 300 levels, my doctor has me on HCG as well which are sub q. He said if I ever stop the TRT, my levels would most likely go back to 300 (level prior to TRT) with clomid and HCG but probably will not go higher.

  19. I feel this pinning of testosterone for trt, even weekly, is the wrong way to go about it. I have a fair amount of experience in this area. I went to a Urologist and had all kinds of issues with peaks and valleys. too much testosterone then not enough. it didnt take long before I needed arimadex at 2mg a day to try and keep some crazy estrogen issues under control. I got some Clomid and got off that mess. What works pretty well for me is a home made testoesterone transdermal. I take 30ml of Salvo and put 6 grams yes 6,of a testosterone base powder. Then apply 1ml daily to my inner bicep. works great for me. goodbye to depression, low energy, brain fog, crappy erections and all the other problems.Testosterone went from 400 to 900.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by MedRat View Post
    I feel this pinning of testosterone for trt, even weekly, is the wrong way to go about it. I have a fair amount of experience in this area. I went to a Urologist and had all kinds of issues with peaks and valleys. too much testosterone then not enough. it didnt take long before I needed arimadex at 2mg a day to try and keep some crazy estrogen issues under control. I got some Clomid and got off that mess. What works pretty well for me is a home made testoesterone transdermal. I take 30ml of Salvo and put 6 grams yes 6,of a testosterone base powder. Then apply 1ml daily to my inner bicep. works great for me. goodbye to depression, low energy, brain fog, crappy erections and all the other problems.Testosterone went from 400 to 900.
    Taking 2 mgs of arimidex a day was more than likely your issue and not injecting test. If your homemade concoction works for you then great, but don't down people who do pin test.

  21. i had to go as high as 2mg a day to get the estrogen back under control for a little while. Did I say I was downing everyone who used test? i did not. I am saying many physicians use old protocols that do more hard than good. If it wasnt so expensive Id just buy the name brand 2% testosterone transdermal and be done with it. A once or twice daily application of transdermal testosterone is easier to control than injections.
  22. To TRT or not to TRT


    Quote Originally Posted by MedRat View Post
    i had to go as high as 2mg a day to get the estrogen back under control for a little while. Did I say I was downing everyone who used test? i did not. I am saying many physicians use old protocols that do more hard than good. If it wasnt so expensive Id just buy the name brand 2% testosterone transdermal and be done with it. A once or twice daily application of transdermal testosterone is easier to control than injections.
    I feel this pinning of testosterone for TRT even weekly is the wrong way to go about it.

    The sentence above is what you said. It says nothing about outdated protocols. Pinning weekly is not outdated. What you were doing to require you to take 2 mgs of arimidex a day had to be a bad protocol. I take .5 mgs a week of arimidex spilt in two doses. You had to have crashed your E2 within a couple of days take 2mgs a day. How long have you been on TRT? How long have you been using transdermals? Why are you so against pinning?
  23. To TRT or not to TRT


    @MedRat are you obese? 2 mg per day of arimidex is a very high dose and I'm wondering if you have a high aromatization due to fat content (not being critical here). I take 0.25 mg per week and my E2 stays in the 20's. Also, if you use gels this puts your children and/or spouse/gf in danger of being exposed to testosterone.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by sammpedd88 View Post
    I feel this pinning of testosterone for TRT even weekly is the wrong way to go about it.

    The sentence above is what you said. It says nothing about outdated protocols. Pinning weekly is not outdated. What you were doing to require you to take 2 mgs of arimidex a day had to be a bad protocol. I take .5 mgs a week of arimidex spilt in two doses. You had to have crashed your E2 within a couple of days take 2mgs a day. How long have you been on TRT? How long have you been using transdermals? Why are you so against pinning?
    Im against the ups and downs pinning brings. Maybe its just me but i was burning up or converting it very fast. Id feel great for 2-3 days. then get estrogen problems and the testosterone was down.I had the bloodwork done over and over again. doctors wouldnt change the pinning protocols. leaving me fighting serious estrogen problems.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by kenpoengineer View Post
    @MedRat are you obese? 2 mg per day of arimidex is a very high dose and I'm wondering if you have a high aromatization due to fat content (not being critical here). I take 0.25 mg per week and my E2 stays in the 20's. Also, if you use gels this puts your children and/or spouse/gf in danger of being exposed to testosterone.
    Right now Im close to 30lbs overweight. It might be due to using this liquid dex from some of these peptide sellers. possibly very underdosed.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by MedRat View Post
    Im against the ups and downs pinning brings. Maybe its just me but i was burning up or converting it very fast. Id feel great for 2-3 days. then get estrogen problems and the testosterone was down.I had the bloodwork done over and over again. doctors wouldnt change the pinning protocols. leaving me fighting serious estrogen problems.
    Were you pinning test cyp? How much were you pinning at a time and how often? When you pin the proper dose for you, you don't get the ups and downs. I've been pinning for 4 years...I pin every 3.5 days. Wouldn't do it any other way. I started with Androgel and hated it. It drove my E2 up and my dr didn't have a clue what he was doing. Then I went to a urologist and he agreed on weekly injections. When my overall T levels peaked at a little over 800 he said I needed to cut back and inject every other week. I told him he had no clue what he was talking about and I started going to an integrative medicine Dr. The entire practice is awesome. My point is, injections are a very reliable way to administer exogenous test. Gels are so iffy and your skin gets to where the absorption is reduced. You also have to worry about cross contamination when you have body contact with someone. If the gel you're using is working good for you then great. But if it isn't, find another Dr and try pinning.
    You said something about peptides. I've never taken them although I am slightly interested in PT141. Before you start adding things to your protocol, get it dialed in first. There's so much more to TRT than just injecting test. You need to add other things such as DHEA, pregnenolone and vitamin D3 just to name a few. Before taking these, get your levels check with blood work. If your Dr won't check them or isn't familiar with them, then run as fast as you can to another dr that does. Take your healthcare into your own hands. Educate yourself and find an integrative medicine Dr in your area.

  27. i take 10k units of d3 per day along w 25mg dhea. 3.5 of cyp would have been much better but, he wouldnt increase the test cyp enough for it to be effective. Everything has risks and i completely understand the risks of each delivery method.
  28. To TRT or not to TRT


    Quote Originally Posted by MedRat View Post
    i take 10k units of d3 per day along w 25mg dhea. 3.5 of cyp would have been much better but, he wouldnt increase the test cyp enough for it to be effective. Everything has risks and i completely understand the risks of each delivery method.
    Are you still with the same dr?
    The 3.5 I was referring to was how often I inject. I inject 50 mgs of test at a time for a total of 100 mgs in a week.

  29. Yes the same Dr. Who now thinks I've adjusted my injections in such a way as to maintain test levels in the 900 free test range.

    I understood about the 3.5 day dosing. I have years of college education in medicine and more in other unrelated fields.

    If something is working for you that's excellent. Medicine isn't and should never be one size fits all.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by MedRat View Post
    Yes the same Dr. Who now thinks I've adjusted my injections in such a way as to maintain test levels in the 900 free test range.

    I understood about the 3.5 day dosing. I have years of college education in medicine and more in other unrelated fields.

    If something is working for you that's excellent. Medicine isn't and should never be one size fits all.
    I agree medicine isn't a one size fits all, but we all have to start somewhere and tweak it as we go.

    The only reason I explained the dosing frequency was due to your response. I read it as you may have thought 3.5 was the amount I was injecting. Just wanted to make things clear.

    I have a college degree also and access to several medical professionals.
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