HCG Failed... on to TRT - Need Resources

[DJBeanPole]

Long story short:

April 2011: Total test: 253
May 2011: Total test: 350 (after running Div1/T-XL/DAA as a log)
Sept 2012: Total 250, Free 50 (doc says no worries)
Sept 2012 2nd opinion: Total 280 (doc says low-t)

Doc tells me to try HCG first since I'm young (yes I'm younger than what this section requires but I see more posts about TRT/HCG here so I figured I'd get more responses)

I ran 1000UI doses every other day for 6 days and was rechecked today. Total was 250. So apparently it didn't do anything and now he wants to start me on TRT 140mg/week.

I wanted to post here and ask others for any resources concerning benefits of TRT, side effects, how long it takes to notice, what I should be concerned about in terms of aromatizing/estrogen increasing, etc.

Wanted to read up and get educated before moving forward.

TIA,

DJ

 

[JudgementDay]

Did you have your estrogen levels checked too?

I'm not sure what you will see with 140mg a week, I'm doing 500 a week, it took about 3 weeks to feel it kicking in, by week 6 strength gains were way up. Maybe run a natural anti-estrogen while on, I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks.

 

[vassille]

Long story short:

April 2011: Total test: 253
May 2011: Total test: 350 (after running Div1/T-XL/DAA as a log)
Sept 2012: Total 250, Free 50 (doc says no worries)
Sept 2012 2nd opinion: Total 280 (doc says low-t)

Doc tells me to try HCG first since I'm young (yes I'm younger than what this section requires but I see more posts about TRT/HCG here so I figured I'd get more responses)

I ran 1000UI doses every other day for 6 days and was rechecked today. Total was 250. So apparently it didn't do anything and now he wants to start me on TRT 140mg/week.

I wanted to post here and ask others for any resources concerning benefits of TRT, side effects, how long it takes to notice, what I should be concerned about in terms of aromatizing/estrogen increasing, etc.

Wanted to read up and get educated before moving forward.

TIA,

DJ

Well, the first thing I would do is run a full hormonal panel. Pin point if the troubles are in the gonads or pituitary or the hypothalumus itself.
It seems that if you run HCG correctly and nothing happen your nuts may be at fault. Just have to do a hormonal panel to find out what you playing with here.
Did you have LH, FSH, estrogen checked?
Have you done PHs or steroids before?

 

[DJBeanPole]

Well, the first thing I would do is run a full hormonal panel. Pin point if the troubles are in the gonads or pituitary or the hypothalumus itself.
It seems that if you run HCG correctly and nothing happen your nuts may be at fault. Just have to do a hormonal panel to find out what you playing with here.
Did you have LH, FSH, estrogen checked?
Have you done PHs or steroids before?

No PHs/Steroids done ever.

LH: 3.3 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 2.4 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol: 17.1 (7.6-42.6) is this E2?

Normal ranges listed as referenced from the lab report. Not sure if those numbers are cause for concern or not since they all fall within range. Doc said HCG was intended as a "natural" way to reboot the testes without having concern for shutdown as with TRT. I'm not sure if those numbers indicate pituitary at fault or what I laughed at as lazy nuts. It seems that I hover near 250s as my normal test. I don't think my pituitary is the culprit it was pretty good at making me grow to this height but then again I could be wrong/doesn't have anything to do with it.

I was apprehensive because the doc just seemed to want to jump to TRT immediately and I had questions about the causes/concern for it... what side effects should I be aware of, how often will I take it, what about an increase in estrogen, etc. and his response was "you will just come in every 7-10 days and we'll check your levels again and go from there/see how you feel."

I just didn't feel very assured If I'm about to commit to it I want to have all my bases covered.

 

[vassille]

No PHs/Steroids done ever.

LH: 3.3 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 2.4 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol: 17.1 (7.6-42.6) is this E2?

Normal ranges listed as referenced from the lab report. Not sure if those numbers are cause for concern or not since they all fall within range. Doc said HCG was intended as a "natural" way to reboot the testes without having concern for shutdown as with TRT. I'm not sure if those numbers indicate pituitary at fault or what I laughed at as lazy nuts. It seems that I hover near 250s as my normal test. I don't think my pituitary is the culprit it was pretty good at making me grow to this height but then again I could be wrong/doesn't have anything to do with it.

I was apprehensive because the doc just seemed to want to jump to TRT immediately and I had questions about the causes/concern for it... what side effects should I be aware of, how often will I take it, what about an increase in estrogen, etc. and his response was "you will just come in every 7-10 days and we'll check your levels again and go from there/see how you feel."

I just didn't feel very assured If I'm about to commit to it I want to have all my bases covered.

You doing the right thing to ask questions and inform yourself nothing wrong with that.
Looking at your numbers it puzzels me somewhat. Your LH and FSH are low. Your Estradiol or E2 is well within range so there is no negative feedback from it. At the same time HCG did nothing to stimulate your nuts.
The pituitary doesnt seem to work that well but neither are your nuts. Only thing I wonder is about the HCG you took if it was good.
By the way height has to do more with growth hormone than testosterone. Pituitary can produce plenty of GH and little LH or FSH. It works rather independent of each other. THe pituitary also produces other hormons. The doctor can check other hormons to see how it works if you want to go that route like the thyroid (TSH)

In your case I would try clomid to see if it works. It works in a similar way as the HCG through the LH signal to the gonads. Something is odd about your case. Most times the problem is one or the other but not both.
Did you have any accident where you got hit in the nuts or had an infection?
Not to be weird but what size are the gonads compared to an olive?
Is this the only blood work that was done? If not what was the other one?
Did you have an MRI to the pituaitary done?
I would not go forward with HRT till you figure what's the cause of your issue.

 

[threeFs]

I know it makes sense to find the reason for low T. But, if on TRT, why does the cause really matter if the treatment is working?

Just playing devil's advocate

 

[vassille]

I know it makes sense to find the reason for low T. But, if on TRT, why does the cause really matter if the treatment is working?

Just playing devil's advocate

Because if you have a tumor on the pituitary or nuts for whatever reason it's pays to find out and treat it before you cover it with TRT.

 

[tenntarheel]

I'm reading as many lab result threads as I can since I'm getting my results from my first bloodwork Wednesday. This one is interesting to me as we'll. I don't really have the answer, but I do have some advice. Definitely do what I'm doing and read all the threads you can and all the stickies just to at least get a good grasp on HRT. If and when I start, I'm gonna be well educated on it and also know where to go to find more info. There are some awesome guys on here with tons of knowledge. Good luck bro

 

[DJBeanPole]

In your case I would try clomid to see if it works. It works in a similar way as the HCG through the LH signal to the gonads. Something is odd about your case. Most times the problem is one or the other but not both.
Did you have any accident where you got hit in the nuts or had an infection?
Not to be weird but what size are the gonads compared to an olive?
Is this the only blood work that was done? If not what was the other one?
Did you have an MRI to the pituaitary done?
I would not go forward with HRT till you figure what's the cause of your issue.

Can't really think of any time I was hit in the nuts incredibly hard... I'm sure there have been those times when I was accidently whacked in the nuts or bumped but nothing that had me down for the count. A lonnnnng time ago when I was still in middle school I remember having to go to the ER because I woke up one morning in immense pain associated with the "boys." Doctors suspected torsion and went to do an ultrasound that showed nothing and the pain just randomly went away. It was very strange. A few months ago I had some pain that felt very similar but hardly as intense... a dull ache that faded away after only a few days and I thought nothing of it. Everything feels fine down there. No lumps, no pains. Size wise they are full and healthy, definitely larger than an olive.

No other bloodwork done. The one from my physician also tested for prolactin and thyroid which indicated hypothyroidism but I need another blood draw for that to confirm. I wouldn't be surprised since it runs in the family.

No MRI. Didn't think it was necessitated that test quite yet.

I think I'm going to go to an actual endo and talk things out with them. I'd really like to know that things are fine and that my body just naturally hangs out with a low level.

I'm reading as many lab result threads as I can since I'm getting my results from my first bloodwork Wednesday. This one is interesting to me as we'll. I don't really have the answer, but I do have some advice. Definitely do what I'm doing and read all the threads you can and all the stickies just to at least get a good grasp on HRT. If and when I start, I'm gonna be well educated on it and also know where to go to find more info. There are some awesome guys on here with tons of knowledge. Good luck bro

Thanks man

 

[vassille]

It's possible to produce a lower amount of test as your normal. If that;s the case then HRT would def be an option and go from there.

 

[TRTDetroit]

did you keep the medicine in the fridge?

 

[MIGUEL1J]

Long story short:

April 2011: Total test: 253
May 2011: Total test: 350 (after running Div1/T-XL/DAA as a log)
Sept 2012: Total 250, Free 50 (doc says no worries)
Sept 2012 2nd opinion: Total 280 (doc says low-t)

Doc tells me to try HCG first since I'm young (yes I'm younger than what this section requires but I see more posts about TRT/HCG here so I figured I'd get more responses)

I ran 1000UI doses every other day for 6 days and was rechecked today. Total was 250. So apparently it didn't do anything and now he wants to start me on TRT 140mg/week.

I wanted to post here and ask others for any resources concerning benefits of TRT, side effects, how long it takes to notice, what I should be concerned about in terms of aromatizing/estrogen increasing, etc.

Wanted to read up and get educated before moving forward.

TIA,

DJ

Hay djbean pole your lh/fsh are good. Did your doc check your thyroid. I'm on hcg 1000iu 3 times a week. When I started hcg my test was 320 it shot up to 700something then 900 now it stays between 1000 and 1200. But my doc told me to stay away from sugar, corn syrup while on hcg. If possible get it from Walgreens Plus he put me on d3 5000, multi and chromium gtf.

 

[DJBeanPole]

Hay djbean pole your lh/fsh are good. Did your doc check your thyroid. I'm on hcg 1000iu 3 times a week. When I started hcg my test was 320 it shot up to 700something then 900 now it stays between 1000 and 1200. But my doc told me to stay away from sugar, corn syrup while on hcg. If possible get it from Walgreens Plus he put me on d3 5000, multi and chromium gtf.

Funny you mention thyroid. Just had a test confirming hypothyroidism.

 

[DJBeanPole]

did you keep the medicine in the fridge?

Yup.

 

[vassille]

Funny you mention thyroid. Just had a test confirming hypothyroidism.

It pays to keep looking until you get the whole picture.

 

[tenntarheel]

Miguel, did the doc give you hcg bc he felt like your low test levels were caused by hypothyroidism? My test is in the dirt, and thyroid was just a bit high, so my doc was just gonna check thyroid with a few additional tests in three weeks but start me on TRT bc he felt my thyroid would probably level out with better sleep and what not. I wouldn't mind trying just hcg to see if it fixed both issues. Or are you on Synthroid as well?

 

[MIGUEL1J]

Same problem I had about a year ago. Ask ur doc to check ur adrenal and a1c levels. I'm on 1000iu 3 times a week hcg,
Metagenics adrenogen adrest Glucorest and 2.5mg of letro every day. I put on about 40 lbs lean muscle and lost 58 lbs off fat and my fat is still dropping. But try test cyp if your doc recommend it, but my doc made a good point to me he told me that it's better if your own body makes the test it's self the body will respect it more than a synthetic test plus when you decide to stop bb you'll keep all the muscle. Fewer sides that way as well plus steroid are effective because the rush alot of androgens and test fast in your body, your body can make steriods with hcg

 

[tenntarheel]

How long did it take for you to level out at 1000-1200ng? Are you planning to remain on HCG only? And of course the adrenal supps?

 

[MIGUEL1J]

5 to 6 months, when I hit 900 something I felt like superman lol my bench squat dead lift doubled. When it leveled I knew because that week I gained 27.5 lbs not kidding you. I went to my doc office a week before I weight 204.9 when I went back for the lab the doc had a smile told me to step on the scale 231.3 he just said wow congrats. He told me to take advantage of the peek level and hit the gym as much as I can and double my protein. Ima be on it for a while

 

[tenntarheel]

Nice dude! That's good ****.

 

[DJBeanPole]

It pays to keep looking until you get the whole picture.

I see my doc next week and I'll talk to him about it then and explain to him the whole HCG fiasco and see if he has an endo he can refer me to.

Cortisol and T-antibodies have been ordered to check on a few other things.

In the words of Super Troopers... "You are freaking out... MAN!"

:\!

 

[pappybay]

Great thread.

 

[DJBeanPole]

Resurrected update: Saw an endo yesterday. Redrawing a bunch of labs at what is considered my "morning" time since I work nightshift (so everything will be drawn near 3PM as opposed to 8-9AM). We'll see what happens.

 

[pappybay]

5 to 6 months, when I hit 900 something I felt like superman lol my bench squat dead lift doubled. When it leveled I knew because that week I gained 27.5 lbs not kidding you. I went to my doc office a week before I weight 204.9 when I went back for the lab the doc had a smile told me to step on the scale 231.3 he just said wow congrats. He told me to take advantage of the peek level and hit the gym as much as I can and double my protein. Ima be on it for a while

27.5 pounds in one week would require 96,250 calories (at 3,500 per pound average) or 13,750 calories per day........not counting normal body maintenance. I imagine you meant longer because I can barely get down 4,000 per day of high quality food.

I have been on 160 MG Cypo per week for about 3 months and gained ten pounds and it was not easy......

 

[JudgementDay]

Resurrected update: Saw an endo yesterday. Redrawing a bunch of labs at what is considered my "morning" time since I work nightshift (so everything will be drawn near 3PM as opposed to 8-9AM). We'll see what happens.

Nice bro!

I'm getting my bloods done Tuesday, last time my test was at 257ng.

 

[DJBeanPole]

Nice bro!

I'm getting my bloods done Tuesday, last time my test was at 257ng.

I'm having a ton of things drawn. From F+T test to ACTH, hepatic function, bmp, etc.

I'm ready for some answers!

 

[DJBeanPole]

Everything came back normal Had the lab drawn at what is considered "morning" for me at 3PM (since I work nights I'm usually in bed by 8AM and up around 2PM). Total test was in the upper 300s which the endo said for a guy my age was still a little low but didn't want to worry about that right now since I am planning on having kids in the future.

Glad to have some things resolved.