- 10-15-2012, 07:56 AM
Male and 51. Typical Symptoms: lack of energy, very tired at end of day, just plain ole blahhhhh
Professional Career, high stress.
Typically to bed at 10:30 and up at 6:30 (when not working out) and 5:20 when working out.
Eating habits are very good, but not optimal: Low fat, healthy, plus no smoking or drinking.
175 lbs, 6'4" -- Yeah, probably would call me skinny. Body fat 11% and BMI 21.4
Oh yeah, not working out but active lifestyle
LDL- P 1222
LDL - C 154
HDL - C 63
Cholesterol 224 ( high but see next two)
HDL - P 39.4
Small LDL-P 351
LDL Size 21.7
LP- IR Score (insulin resistance) 13
T3 Free 3.1
T4, Free (direct) 1.28
CBC, WBC 5.9
CBC, RBC 4.64
Testosterone, Serum 404
Free Testosterone (direct) 8.6
C-reative Protein 0.21 (Yeah!)
Estrogens, total 56 (ideal I believe is around 20)
Thyriod Peroxidate <6
Result: Put on Cypoinate, .35ML per week (200mg/ML -- No cycling.) This results in 70MG per week and one Anastrozole 1 MG with each injection.
First couple of weeks sex drive up, energy levels up and I started working out. Now, 6 weeks in, I am back to tired and less energy. I do feel better than before starting the Cyp, but I would not say it is more than 15% better.
I have upped my protein intake considerably (ON Ultimate Whey), am taking a good multivitamin, and am being even more conscious about level of simple carbs.
I am now waiting on updated labs for Total T, Free T, Estradial, Estrogen and TSH. I suspect I need higher than 70 per week.
Now, finally, for the opinion part.
I assume since I am not cycling that my body's production of Test. is limited at best. I felt much better the first few weeks because I had not only my own Test production but also the injection, and now I am "living" with the injection only?
If my goal is to be healthy and to get from 175 pounds to 210 pounds with an 8-10% body fat, what Testosterone, Serum (now 404) levels should I be maintaining (in general terms)?
Thanks in advance for your advice and counsel on this topic. ANY advice is appreciated.
I hope this is posted to the correct forum.......
- 10-15-2012, 08:58 AM
Was the test of 404 taken when on the .35 ml? Generally speaking, the benefits of trt you are looking for are found at higher doses and test levels. 70/week is kind of on the low side of trt. I'm injecting 75 mg twice a week and have put on 18 pounds since Feb, and have leaned out at the same time. My labs (cholesterol,LDL ) have all improved as well.
However, everyones response to exogenous test is individual. It takes some trial and error to get the dose that works for you dialed in. Most here report that trt gets their test levels in the range of 700-1000.
10-15-2012, 01:54 PM
napalm, the 404 was before the .35 ml. I am waiting on updated tests and will post once received. Should come in this week, but had to send out to reference lab (Labcorp).
Thanks for the feedback.
12-04-2012, 10:42 PM
Test results in and resutls was Testosterone, Serum 408, no impact and I feel like I did before. Upped the dose to .50 ml per week and still on 1 mg amiridex with the injection, Testosterone , Serium 480, estrogen is high. I will increase Amiridex to 2 mg per week.
It was suggested I come off the Cypo and go on 2500 units of HCG a week. I have read for hours and can not seem to find info on this type of a regimen in place of the cypo. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I am thinking about increasing Cypo dosage to 55-60 per week on my on and then run labs in about three weeks. What do you guys think about he HCG option?
12-04-2012, 11:02 PM
Are you making up your own treatment or doing what a doctor says?
And low fat its not great for natural test production....
12-06-2012, 10:41 PM
I am under physician's care, however, the physician is amenable to my suggestions.
Here is what I am thinking about discussing with him. Go to two injections per week, 90mg per injection, three 1 mg amdex and 250 units of HGC once per week (5-7 day life cycle)
Man, at 100 mg per week (present) I am just not feeling the energy level and am not motivated to even workout.
This regiment would be for energy and building muscle, no cycling, just stay on cypo.
I did ready the HGC threads and there appears to be a LOT of opinions regarding when and for what purpose. It does make sense to keep testes producing if possible......
I would appreciate feedback and thanks for not beating the ^&&% out of me for being a rookie with rookie questions.
12-06-2012, 10:53 PM
Honestly to me it sounds like you may have jumped on trt to fast. If i had a total test as good as yours i would have looked a little deeper before starting.
Adding adding hcg may also spike estrogen. I spent six months on 100 mg a week before my levels stabilized and i felt right. But i also tried other stuff for about a year before even talking to an endocrinologist.
12-08-2012, 10:21 PM
Not sure about that, 400 is not the place to be based on everything I have read here and according to my physician.
12-09-2012, 09:49 AM
So what did you actually do to determine why you are low? Are you primary or secondary? Do you have high shbg? What about Cortisol? I am not saying 400 is not on the low end of the range...i am saying throwing lots of testosterone followed by hcg without at least making sure about the rest of the system could be masking something that could have been fixed without being on medication for life. 400 was where i was at when i was 31..
12-09-2012, 08:32 PM
12-09-2012, 08:39 PM
Here is another question. If I am on Cypo long-term, can I keep natural test production going with HCG? Yes, I have read all the articles (and the 50 different opinions).
If the answer (prevailing opinion) is yes, do I need to stop the Cypo, get on HCG, restart my own test and then get back on Cypo along with HCG?
Supplements like NOW Foods Maca 500mg, 250 Capsules seem to be effective in management of estrogen. Do I even need to consider this if I am on amdex? I'm ready for the verbal beating.....bring it on.
12-11-2012, 02:27 AM
12-12-2012, 10:48 PM
12-12-2012, 11:23 PM
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin is what it is. If it is too high it means low free test.
Primary means non or low functioning testicles, secondary means pituitary function is impaired.
01-02-2013, 10:21 PM
Changed to two injections per week 80 mg each for a total of 160 and I can DEFINITELY feel it: more energy, strength gains are improved greatly and a general better feeling of "well-being" if that makes sense.
Blood pressure is good, a little joint "discomfort" which fish oil seems to solve. A lot of protein added to daily diet along with vitamins.
I am very satisfied at present.
01-03-2013, 10:00 PM
01-03-2013, 10:46 PM
Wontstop, I am taking 3X 1mg per week with no issues or signs of Gyno. After consulting with my physician I am not adding HGC. He believes the HGC could inhibit the cypo(????). Not sure I agree but then I don't have M.D. after my last name.
01-03-2013, 11:14 PM
I am still a bit confused in the need to cycle off the crypto and start massive doses (5,000) of HGC for 3-4 months if I am okay with the testes impact staying on TRT. Why not just stay on the cypo long-term (ignoring the need to inject 2X per week forever and cost)
01-04-2013, 08:36 PM
01-05-2013, 12:38 PM
If I am injecting .4 on a Sunday, would I not need more adex for the initial "rush" of cypo? Right now I inject on Sunday am and Wednesday am, take a 1 MG with each injection and then a .5 adex on Tuesday (2 days after Sunday injection) and Friday (two days after Wednesday injection.
If i have 3 MG to take each week, I guess I could take .5 per day. Is that what you are suggesting, and THANK you for the advice. It is appreciated.
01-05-2013, 10:16 PM
01-05-2013, 10:18 PM
in the end bloodwork is really the only solid info that you can go by..we are all different...i know of one person that requires 1mg of adex ed with 200mg of cyp ew to maintain proper levels..that amount of adex would have me crying to a horror movie..
01-06-2013, 01:33 PM
01-10-2013, 07:31 AM
02-22-2013, 10:22 PM
New labs. Any thoughts?
LCD/MS/MS. 766. Total test
DHEA Sulfate 72
FSH < 0.7
LH < 0.2 (hence my interest in HGC)
Estradiol < 15
Still waiting on estrogen total and serum
Red Blood Count 4.91 Mil/mm3
HGH. 15.3 G/DL
Labs pulled on a Wednesday morning after 80 mg injection on Sunday morning. Injected 80 after labs pulled.
Doc says numbers look great, as a reminder, goals are improved health and to put on 20-25 pounds of mass.
Will probably go on 250 IU HCG 2 times per week to get the LH up and my scrotum down.
03-01-2013, 12:13 AM
Your hormonal pathways are not right. There shouldn't be the need to take that much adex to maintain a relatively middle of the road test levels. That could have been the main reason why your test was low from the get go. Instead of fixing the cause you just patching the one hormone that may not even be the problem. It could be other hormones afffecting it. All hormones work in a cascade.
03-01-2013, 11:27 PM
03-02-2013, 12:49 PM
03-07-2013, 08:46 PM
03-08-2013, 11:25 AM
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