Trt plus ph

[Novice 58]

Hi all,

I am currently starting test cyp injections as prescribed by my Endo. I have been on various transdermal test products and they were not cutting it. I finally talked the doc into Switching to injections. Until I get my t levels stabilized and understood, I am not messing around with any ph supplements. I have done a few ph cycles before so i am not new to this. Was thinking id do a 4 week sd bridged into either epi or 11-oxo. I have 2 questions for anyone who has cycled phs while on trt.

I have heard that pct is not required while on trt. Would it still be necessary to have a seem on hand? Or in other words is there any risk of rebound gyno after the ph cycle is complete?

On a previous cycle of sd, I had big time lethargy. Will the test mitigate the lethargy? If not, what would be the best to manage the lethargy? Not interested in spending $$$ on androdrive. Any chance of increasing risk of gyno if I used plain old dhea?

Thanks for any replies. These are just general questions. When I figure out what I want to do, I will post up a proposed cycle stats and goals for comments.

Again, thanks

[lboston]

I'm interested in these same questions...so I'll bump this up!

[JudoJosh]

I have heard that pct is not required while on trt.

correct

Would it still be necessary to have a seem on hand?

no but an AI and/or a prolactin antogonist might be handy to have on hand depending on what designer steroid you will be using

Or in other words is there any risk of rebound gyno after the ph cycle is complete?

yes

On a previous cycle of sd, I had big time lethargy. Will the test mitigate the lethargy?

it should

If not, what would be the best to manage the lethargy?

i suppose you could try DHEA and/or preg but the test should be enough

[Novice 58]

If I follow correctly: there is risk of rebound gyno, but it is can be mitigated by an ai.

I guess I asked " is a serm necessary". It appears not, but gyno is still a concern. Is it a matter of preference as to an ai or serm post ph cycle? Would there be any benefit to allowing estrogen to rise post cycle while using a serm to Fight gyno? Or am I over thinking this - just schedule the end of the ph cycle to be on an injection day and roll?

Thanks for the responses.

[DetroitHammer]

If I follow correctly: there is risk of rebound gyno, but it is can be mitigated by an ai.

I guess I asked " is a serm necessary". It appears not, but gyno is still a concern. Is it a matter of preference as to an ai or serm post ph cycle? Would there be any benefit to allowing estrogen to rise post cycle while using a serm to Fight gyno? Or am I over thinking this - just schedule the end of the ph cycle to be on an injection day and roll?

Thanks for the responses.

Both a SERM and AI limit estrogen (E2). You would not take both a SERM and an AI. They both operate differently, so although it may be a matter of preference, it should be an informed decision after understanding the way the two operate, and even within the AIs, there are different types. Typically, a person on TRT does not need any estrogrn control. Especially if your dose is very low, like 100mgs a week. I've heard of one guy who claims to have expereinced gyno on just 100mgs per week, but I'm highly skeptical. How do you know? Get blood work after about a month and see what your levels are, like test, E2, SHB and see if you need any type of control. What I would recommend is using HCG.

I guess I'm confused; are you on TRT or a cycle? Or are you just blasting?

[fueledpassion]

Run TRT
SD 20/20/20
Epi 0/0/30/40/40/40
Adex or Nolva as needed
HCG 250iu's twice/week

[Novice 58]

I guess I'm confused; are you on TRT or a cycle? Or are you just blasting?[/QUOTE]

I have been on androgel and testim for 2 years with limited success. ( from low 200s to 400s) I threw in a couple Of ph cycles in there with some improvement in body comp. I just started test cyp injections. I am hoping to level out in the high- mid range. Just started, don't know where my maintenance dose will be.

Once i get settled, will probably do the sd- epi bridge we are discussing while I save up and hoard my test, then research and do a blast on the test when the time is right.

Regarding serm vs ai. It is my understanding that a serm will allow your estrogen levels to rise while preventing the breast tissue from developing. ( and in the non-trt case, allow natural test to recover). While an ai will reduce estrogen by preventing test from converting. True? If so, then would there be any inherent benefit in allowing my e levels to rise temporarily? Maybe Lube up the joints a little.

Or if I went with an ai, would something like erase or erase pro be enough to keep the man boobs away.

[vassille]

Hi all,

I am currently starting test cyp injections as prescribed by my Endo. I have been on various transdermal test products and they were not cutting it. I finally talked the doc into Switching to injections. Until I get my t levels stabilized and understood, I am not messing around with any ph supplements. I have done a few ph cycles before so i am not new to this. Was thinking id do a 4 week sd bridged into either epi or 11-oxo. I have 2 questions for anyone who has cycled phs while on trt.

I have heard that pct is not required while on trt. Would it still be necessary to have a seem on hand? Or in other words is there any risk of rebound gyno after the ph cycle is complete?

On a previous cycle of sd, I had big time lethargy. Will the test mitigate the lethargy? If not, what would be the best to manage the lethargy? Not interested in spending $$$ on androdrive. Any chance of increasing risk of gyno if I used plain old dhea?

Thanks for any replies. These are just general questions. When I figure out what I want to do, I will post up a proposed cycle stats and goals for comments.

Again, thanks

It's all good till your blood work come back with weird values because of the PHs. Besides they wreck your lipids and mess up your liver. Dont make your doctor suspicious by having off the charts blood work they will investigate if it;s bad enough.
Get some test prop is fast acting and you can use it for your bridge and it wont mess up your charts
Been doing this scheme for a long time on HRT.

[fueledpassion]

X

It's all good till your blood work come back with weird values because of the PHs. Besides they wreck your lipids and mess up your liver. Dont make your doctor suspicious by having off the charts blood work they will investigate if it;s bad enough.
Get some test prop is fast acting and you can use it for your bridge and it wont mess up your charts
Been doing this scheme for a long time on HRT.

Good thinking! 500-700mg of supplementary test-p, 4-6 weeks at a time would be just as effective as any PH for mass and strength, plus the added benefit of no significant water retention.

[vassille]

X

Good thinking! 500-700mg of supplementary test-p, 4-6 weeks at a time would be just as effective as any PH for mass and strength, plus the added benefit of no significant water retention.

That;s correct and a lot safer!

[Novice 58]

Agreed, blast and cruise on test is the ultimate goal. It is going to be a while until I get there. In the meantime, im thinking a sd epi run could do wonders if my base test was stable at mid high range.

I have had blood work a few weeks after a ph pct. Everything was norm- liver ,cholesterol. Only test was in the mid- low range. Not scared of one or even 2 more ph runs (done right) before I can save up extra test.

Again, thanks for all the input. Welcome anyone else to chime in.

[EasyEJL]

On a previous cycle of sd, I had big time lethargy. Will the test mitigate the lethargy?

this one is a big "maybe". For some people it does, yet for others it doesn't. nobody is 100% sure what causes the lethargy.

Overall the higher testosterone dose is best if you can do it, if not though some of the non-methylated products probably are less likely to cause issues. On the issue of cholesterol changes, dosing fish oil moderately high along with ursolic acid seems like it causes cholesterol to bounce back very rapidly.

[Novice 58]

In case anyone is interested:

The Endo put me on 200mg test cyp every 2 weeks. Did my 2nd injection on Tuesday (2 weeks after the 1st injection) and am feeling better than I have felt in a long while. Feels like I have a little pump going on during the day. Pretty good weight session yesterday and energy for cardio today. Not to mention a little better mood and focus at work. Hope it lasts. might be a little placebo, but I'll take it for now. Hope I can eventually talk the Endo into a high-med baseline and weekly shots instead of seeing a 350 On day 8 and calling it good. I have been on the low end of the t scale for so long, I wonder what level I hit today and how tht correlates to how I feel


Can't wait to see how some sd treats me with good Baseline test. It's gonna be beastly.

Thanks again those who gave advice.

[ambulldog]

X

Good thinking! 500-700mg of supplementary test-p, 4-6 weeks at a time would be just as effective as any PH for mass and strength, plus the added benefit of no significant water retention.

agreed

[Novice 58]

Don't get me wrong. I am soo down with the blast and cruise. Just need to figure out my cruise dose and then stockpile the test.

While stockpiling the test to do an effective blast, I am prolly going to hit some sd. I know what it did when my test was low and then supressed. Seems like its gonna kill with good test behind it. Then drop cals and go into an epi bridge.

[fueledpassion]

Do what u must my friend. Test & SD is absolutely the best combo for strength and mass ime. I like it because its as strong as it can get with minimal sides. I dont experience the SD sides when coupled with Test and many others dont as well.
While Phera was pretty good, @ 50-60mg/day it was causing alot of shortness of breath, high blood pressure and some mild bloating. None of those sides are prevalent with SD.

[vassille]

Is prob better to get your doc to do 150mg every week or at least do 100mg every week.
Shots every 2 weeks are nonsense regardless of the amount you do. It creates problems with estrogen and the ups and downs are ridiculous.

[Novice 58]

Apparently, there is some medical protocol (probably out dated) that Is based on a 2 week interval. I could not get my Endo to budge. She Seemed to be open to changing frequency of shots once we had some test results.

I don't get it. If you understand exponential decay and do the math, there is no possible benefit to stretching the interval out to 2 weeks. I will make my case again in a month when I talk to her after bloodwork.


At worst, I will do 1/2 dose at 2x freq and then adjust when it's time to do again.

Btw , got a shot of 200 mg on tues night. Was breasting big time in the gym on Friday. 385x2 at the end of my heavy bench sets. Haven't been that strong since college, I am 41 now. I am really hoping I can get the Endo on board for weekly shots and a high - mid baseline. I could very well see them being satisfied with a 400 mid way through the 2 week interval. Gonna be pissed if I can't get them to try to do better.

[Novice 58]

V - you say above that shots every 2 weeks can cause estrogen related issues. How does this happen? Any idea of the mechanism?

It is mid way between my 3 rd and 4 th injection (200mg every 2 weeks). I am bloated, have had bouts of pretty bad PMS ( irritability toward the end of the 2 weeks),and it may be my imagination, but I think my nipples are getting a little sensitive.

I go to give blood tomorrow. Called the Endo today to see if they would add estrogen to the blood work. Current lab sheet only has test.

Does anyone know of a legit medical reference that I can use to convince the dr to:

- test for estrogen
- reduce freq of injections to 1 week
- prescribe an ai if necessary based on testing.

Thanks for any help

[fueledpassion]

V - you say above that shots every 2 weeks can cause estrogen related issues. How does this happen? Any idea of the mechanism?

It is mid way between my 3 rd and 4 th injection (200mg every 2 weeks). I am bloated, have had bouts of pretty bad PMS ( irritability toward the end of the 2 weeks),and it may be my imagination, but I think my nipples are getting a little sensitive.

I go to give blood tomorrow. Called the Endo today to see if they would add estrogen to the blood work. Current lab sheet only has test.

Does anyone know of a legit medical reference that I can use to convince the dr to:

- test for estrogen
- reduce freq of injections to 1 week
- prescribe an ai if necessary based on testing.

Thanks for any help

Do your own blood test. We have a sticky here that explains how to get one for as little as $50. I've done it twice in the past...with estrogen, LH & FSH included with total serum test #.