TRT and Epistane.

[ntense]

Would this be a decent combo to run for the summer? Was thinking the Epi would help dry out the test sides, including some leftover bacne, plus add a little lean muscle. From what I've read, epistane appears to be very anabolic and not androgenic and actually blocks gyno and estrogen to an extent.

 

[DetroitHammer]

I responded to this but it disappeared...

 

[Gutterpump]

Yes it's great. if you take an AI, i'd stop though, unless somehow you start getting E2 sides but that is not likely on a normal dose of epi. It crushes E2. On higher doses though I did get some sides (sensitive nips), but that was at 50-60mgs daily. I am also on TRT. Strength gains are great on epi.

 

[DetroitHammer]

Epistane is a very poor anabolic. It was made for women to prevent breast cancer. It may help as a SERM, much like mast, but gains on epistane are whatever your mind can imagine them to be. I wouldn't waste my time on any OTC "pro hormone." Stick with test and maybe add more test, at least it's the real thing.

 

[Gutterpump]

Have you ever taken test and epi together? The gains are decent. I've compared test alone, to epi alone and epi+test, and I love love love epi and test. The vascularity on epi is great too. But with that being said, I hate orals.

If you have cash... primo, or even EQ is the way if you're cutting.

 

[ntense]

Well, I'll give it a try and see what happens. I'm not on any AI's so that won't be a concern. I am hoping for some E2 reduction from this maybe allowing me to bump my test up a little without getting any back acne is excess water.

 

[Gutterpump]

If anything, you should definitely get a huge bump in libido for a while on it. Acne and other sides are minimal, nothing to really worry about. I don't know why, but for me it causes aggression at a higher dose, likely due to crushing E2 to oblivion. Oral DHEA should help with that.

 

[ntense]

I'm on 80 mg of test each week divided into two 40 mg injections per docs orders. I'm going on vacation in two months, can I run this for two months or wait until closer to vacation to start it?

 

[Gutterpump]

Most people won't suggest doing an oral for 2 months. I've experimented a lot with epi in the past though. It's fairly mild on the liver and with good liver support, you should be fine. The last time I used epi, was for 6-7 weeks at 50mg per day, but I also weigh a lot. I didn't ramp up on the dose either, but I knew how it effected me (I need extra BP meds while on it). Let me know if you have any questions regarding good liver support, or any other support sups you may need. I have to head out now or I'd type it up for you here.

 

[DetroitHammer]

If anything, you should definitely get a huge bump in libido for a while on it. Acne and other sides are minimal, nothing to really worry about. I don't know why, but for me it causes aggression at a higher dose, likely due to crushing E2 to oblivion. Oral DHEA should help with that.

I've seen recent studies which point to high E2 as the cause for aggression, not test. I know this goes against popular beliefs, but it does make sense when you see how women have emotional extremes during their estrogen cycles.

 

[DetroitHammer]

Have you ever taken test and epi together? The gains are decent. I've compared test alone, to epi alone and epi+test, and I love love love epi and test. The vascularity on epi is great too. But with that being said, I hate orals.

If you have cash... primo, or even EQ is the way if you're cutting.

No, I have never taken it but know about it. I tend to dismiss any OTC stuff as a cheap imitation of AAS. As rule rule, if you can buy it at your local vitamin store, it probably isn't worth c rap. But I know a lot of guys like certain "pro hormones" but I can't understand why anyone would take them to get so little in return and mess up your liver as bad as any oral AAS.

 

[ntense]

I thought it was more due to the extremes than the hormones themselves. One week isn't very long to go from normal to high and back to normal again, be it test or estrogen.

 

[Gutterpump]

No, I have never taken it but know about it. I tend to dismiss any OTC stuff as a cheap imitation of AAS. As rule rule, if you can buy it at your local vitamin store, it probably isn't worth c rap. But I know a lot of guys like certain "pro hormones" but I can't understand why anyone would take them to get so little in return and mess up your liver as bad as any oral AAS.

I totally agree. I really hate orals now. I'm giving androhard and androdrive a shot now though, but they aren't methylated. I'm also not taking for gains (just had surgery)

 

[Gutterpump]

Test never makes me aggressive, in contrast, it smooths me out, I feel very 'in control' and positive.

Here's the deal with estrogen. It's strongly tied in with neurotransmitters. Raising E2 normally raises seratonin. Lowering e2 raises dopamine. If you completely suppress E2, you are also crushing your seratonin levels, with negative effects.

Very high doses of epi (or crushed E2) makes me very irritable.. Well not irritable, but 'edgy'. I get angry quick.

Very high E2 levels make me nervous and agitated. I get anxiety from it, but I have also heard it is the main cause of aggression on cycle.

 

[DetroitHammer]

I thought it was more due to the extremes than the hormones themselves. One week isn't very long to go from normal to high and back to normal again, be it test or estrogen.

Not sure if I understand or if this was addressed to my statement. The levels of test and E2 won't bounce from high to low in a week's time. After a while the levels will start to even out and at that time you'll know if you need an AI/SERM or other controls. The ratio of one to the other is also important. But let's face it, if you're on test, and doing more than 100mgs a week, your test levels will be "extreme" compared to the normal range. In all honesty, I've blasted at 2 grams, no AI/SERM and as low as 200mgs per week, and I have never felt any aggression. I've cried listening to sappy love songs though!

 

[ntense]

My response was about women and their emotional roller coaster rides during their time of the month. That's all.

 

[DetroitHammer]

My response was about women and their emotional roller coaster rides during their time of the month. That's all.

Yes, and their estrogen levels rise and drop dramatically within days.

 

[ntense]

Test never makes me aggressive, in contrast, it smooths me out, I feel very 'in control' and positive.

Here's the deal with estrogen. It's strongly tied in with neurotransmitters. Raising E2 normally raises seratonin. Lowering e2 raises dopamine. If you completely suppress E2, you are also crushing your seratonin levels, with negative effects.

Very high doses of epi (or crushed E2) makes me very irritable.. Well not irritable, but 'edgy'. I get angry quick.

Very high E2 levels make me nervous and agitated. I get anxiety from it, but I have also heard it is the main cause of aggression on cycle.

That's interesting about e2 and seratonin. My test levels have been over 1000 and my e2 levels were over 50 and my anxiety was through the roof. So if already have anxiety issues, would it be safe to say that diminishing e2 levels all together would not be a smart move? Maybe I should low dose the Epistane say 10 mg a day for a longer period as opposed to 30 mg a day for 30 days?

 

[Gutterpump]

Nah, take 10mg for a week if you want to assess tolerance, but 30mg is fine. I don't get anxiety from epi, and it didn't make me snappier till I went over 40mg.

If you want to raise your E2 back up after being on it for a couple weeks, take 100-200mg of oral dhea. It raises e2 when taken orally.

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm not a fan of prohormones but is hdrol still around? I had better results on 50-100mg of hdrol than 50-60mg of epi. And it doesn't mess with e2

 

[ntense]

I'm not a fan of prohormones but is hdrol still around? I had better results on 50-100mg of hdrol than 50-60mg of epi. And it doesn't mess with e2

Yep, there's some halodrol clones out there. Was looking for something to help combat e2 sides from test though.

 

[Gutterpump]

Ah ok, well epi is good for that in the short term. Long term though, I'd get yourself some aromasin. You can't take a methylated product ongoing, even at low dose.

 

[ntense]

Ah ok, well epi is good for that in the short term. Long term though, I'd get yourself some aromasin. You can't take a methylated product ongoing, even at low dose.

That's right, forgot it's methylated.

 

[roblasane]

I'm not a fan of prohormones but is hdrol still around? I had better results on 50-100mg of hdrol than 50-60mg of epi. And it doesn't mess with e2

It depends on the person . I gained 12 pounds in 6 weeks on 30 MG of epistane. I kept 8 in PCT and held most of the strength gains. There is no doubt it increases strength for some people. I got nothing from halo and it was legit. Possibly if you have high natural test the AI action of epistane will boost test to where you see huge gains in strength and lean mass.