Dealing with some serious shoulder pain

grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
I decided to post this here since I’ve seen a lot of good advice given by the “seasoned” crowd and wanted to know if anyone has had a similar problem and what if anything can be done w/o medical intervention.

Recently my Bench Press has been regressing despite my Squat and Deadlift going up and now I’m positive that my problem must be coming from something wrong with my shoulders, my right shoulder in particular. I thought I had a shoulder impingement (and may) and after a 2 weeks off lifting from being sick but still doing Pre/Rehab work for it felt like it was pretty much gone.

However, whatever it is came back with a vengeance in my right shoulder after my first bench day after being sick. Again after this it seemed to be subsiding and then after my last ME Squat day it came back even worse.

I’m feeling is a slight pain at the middle tip of my right shoulder (left is similar if I move it certain ways but otherwise no problems there). The real pain radiated down my triceps through my forearm (where it’s actually the worst sort of tingly like when you hit your funny bone) and to the tips of my first two fingers which actually feel a little numb/tingly.

Usually when I workout the pain goes away only to come back later in the day especially when I lay on my back to sleep getting even worse overnight to the point that if I wake up in the night it hurts so bad it’s hard to go back to sleep. However, today I could actually feel it when I was doing Incline BB Press (I’ve been avoiding most inclines and wide grip press trying not to aggravate it).

I’m also now sure it’s what’s causing the decrease in my Pressing movements. For example today I stalled on the right side pushing up only 155 on the BB Incline Press and had to really grind it out (about 4 seconds) to finish the lift. On the Triceps extensions my left arm was moving like a piston while my right arm was wobbly and my elbow kept flaring out.

I have a line on a sports medicine doctor recommended by a coworker who’s been completive bodybuilding for years so I’m probably going to check him out. However, before doing that I just wanted to see if anyone here has had a similar problem and could recommend anything short of seeing the doc.
 

sabby

New member
Awards
0
I have had a history of shoulder problems similar to what you describe. It's likely bursitis or rotator cuff tendonitis. Either way, an inflammation of some sort. An injection of a corticosteroid by your Orthopedist will probably alleviate a lot of the problem (it did with me). Don't do what I did and hope it will "work itself out" over time.
 

tuberman

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I decided to post this here since I’ve seen a lot of good advice given by the “seasoned” crowd and wanted to know if anyone has had a similar problem and what if anything can be done w/o medical intervention.

Recently my Bench Press has been regressing despite my Squat and Deadlift going up and now I’m positive that my problem must be coming from something wrong with my shoulders, my right shoulder in particular. I thought I had a shoulder impingement (and may) and after a 2 weeks off lifting from being sick but still doing Pre/Rehab work for it felt like it was pretty much gone.

However, whatever it is came back with a vengeance in my right shoulder after my first bench day after being sick. Again after this it seemed to be subsiding and then after my last ME Squat day it came back even worse.

I’m feeling is a slight pain at the middle tip of my right shoulder (left is similar if I move it certain ways but otherwise no problems there). The real pain radiated down my triceps through my forearm (where it’s actually the worst sort of tingly like when you hit your funny bone) and to the tips of my first two fingers which actually feel a little numb/tingly.

Usually when I workout the pain goes away only to come back later in the day especially when I lay on my back to sleep getting even worse overnight to the point that if I wake up in the night it hurts so bad it’s hard to go back to sleep. However, today I could actually feel it when I was doing Incline BB Press (I’ve been avoiding most inclines and wide grip press trying not to aggravate it).

I’m also now sure it’s what’s causing the decrease in my Pressing movements. For example today I stalled on the right side pushing up only 155 on the BB Incline Press and had to really grind it out (about 4 seconds) to finish the lift. On the Triceps extensions my left arm was moving like a piston while my right arm was wobbly and my elbow kept flaring out.

I have a line on a sports medicine doctor recommended by a coworker who’s been completive bodybuilding for years so I’m probably going to check him out. However, before doing that I just wanted to see if anyone here has had a similar problem and could recommend anything short of seeing the doc.
Pick up a copy of "Starting Strength," by Mark Rippetoe if you don't have it. He goes over perfect form to avoid injuries in the bench press and other main power lifts. Rotator Cuff is the most vulnerable. Also try cissus or Dutchman's idea of Super Cissus to help.

I had a lot of problems with both rotator cuff and my outer elbows hurting when doing heavy flat benches in my mid to late 40's, and these problems eventually caused me to stop after the pain became chronic. And I have a high tolerance for pain. I quit because I figured I was getting very close to absolutely needing medical intervention. "Starting Strength," nor Super Cissus was available when I was having problems.
 
Rodja

Rodja

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
What do you do for your rotator cuffs, rear delts, and mid-traps?
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
First, thanks for the responses!

What do you do for your rotator cuffs, rear delts, and mid-traps?
When I started lifting about a year ago I did Dumbbell Rear Delt Rows as a part of my warmup for Regular DB rows and did Upright Rows and DB Lateral Raises for Mid Traps and unfortunately nothing directly for Rotator Cuffs.

Eventually I got lazy and stopped doing the DB Rear Delt Rows and stopped doing the Upright Rows because of forearm tendonitis which I’ve gotten under control after backing off the offending exercises and doing a lot of high rep curls and similar exercises.

After the shoulder problem first flared up about a month and a half ago (after trying illegal wide bench press for the first and only time) I started doing L-Flyes, DB Rear Lateral Raises, some light weight Front and Lateral Delt Raises. I also started doing stretching up against a wall and using a towel or band to pull my arm up behind my back. Doing this for a couple weeks combined with a 2 week layoff and the pain was gone so I tried a max effort Close Grip Bench Press and later that day the pain was back with a vengeance but only in my right shoulder this time.

Pick up a copy of "Starting Strength," by Mark Rippetoe if you don't have it. He goes over perfect form to avoid injuries in the bench press and other main power lifts. Rotator Cuff is the most vulnerable. Also try cissus or Dutchman's idea of Super Cissus to help.

I had a lot of problems with both rotator cuff and my outer elbows hurting when doing heavy flat benches in my mid to late 40's, and these problems eventually caused me to stop after the pain became chronic. And I have a high tolerance for pain. I quit because I figured I was getting very close to absolutely needing medical intervention. "Starting Strength," nor Super Cissus was available when I was having problems.
I watched some of his videos and used the form he recommends for the first year. When I started using the Westside system I changed to match what they are teaching which still has the bar moving straight up and down but brings the arms in closer to the body and arches the back more. But I’ve never used the angled press where the bar comes up over the shoulders.

Thanks for mentioning Super Cissus I remember him talking about it when I was still having the forearm tendonitis issues but after reading about it there seemed to be some question as to whether it reduced inflammation or just the pain, but I will check it out again.

I have had a history of shoulder problems similar to what you describe. It's likely bursitis or rotator cuff tendonitis. Either way, an inflammation of some sort. An injection of a corticosteroid by your Orthopedist will probably alleviate a lot of the problem (it did with me). Don't do what I did and hope it will "work itself out" over time.
Sounds like your right in describing my issue. Does a corticosteroid injection remove the swelling so it actually heals or does it just help elevate the pain?

Yesterday I started taking ibuprofen every 4 hours and plan to do it for 10 days to 2 weeks while removing any exercises I feel are aggravating it. I may even completely skip my dynamic effort bench day on Friday to see if that gets the ball rolling. However, if I don’t see marked improvement at the end of 2 weeks I will do as you suggest and go see the Doc, or sooner if it gets worse.
 
BigKrabbe

BigKrabbe

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Hey there,
Couple things to help ya out here. First of all posterior capsule stretches as well as doorway chest stretches. For a warm up I highly recommend YTWL's, with some external rotations. If you YouTube ultimate 2 minute shoulder warm up it shows what YTWL's are. Icing post workout, prior to a nice hot shower can help as well.
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
Hey there,
Couple things to help ya out here. First of all posterior capsule stretches as well as doorway chest stretches. For a warm up I highly recommend YTWL's, with some external rotations. If you YouTube ultimate 2 minute shoulder warm up it shows what YTWL's are. Icing post workout, prior to a nice hot shower can help as well.
I’ll check out that video thanks any YWTLs. I’ve been doing some doorway and other stretches but not consistently enough.

Do you also recommend stretching on non-workout days or only before workouts.

Another tip for you. This has been working for me, so far. Also, I've been doing 20 pullups as a warmup on pressing days.
I’ve been doing high rep lat pulls prior to any pressing both to rehab shoulder tendonitis but also I found it helped my bench by getting my lats warmed up well.
That is a great video. I checked my shoulder rotation and it’s only about 100 degrees not closer to 180 as he recommends so I’ve clearly got something to work on there.


note: I had to delete the video from the quote because my post count wouldn't allow me to post it.
 

sabby

New member
Awards
0
The Cortisone is a serious anti-inflammatory, not a pain med. As I said, worked well for me. I applied ice each night and a ibuprofen for a few days as well...... good luck.
 
Rodja

Rodja

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
When I started lifting about a year ago I did Dumbbell Rear Delt Rows as a part of my warmup for Regular DB rows and did Upright Rows and DB Lateral Raises for Mid Traps and unfortunately nothing directly for Rotator Cuffs.

Eventually I got lazy and stopped doing the DB Rear Delt Rows and stopped doing the Upright Rows because of forearm tendonitis which I’ve gotten under control after backing off the offending exercises and doing a lot of high rep curls and similar exercises.

After the shoulder problem first flared up about a month and a half ago (after trying illegal wide bench press for the first and only time) I started doing L-Flyes, DB Rear Lateral Raises, some light weight Front and Lateral Delt Raises. I also started doing stretching up against a wall and using a towel or band to pull my arm up behind my back. Doing this for a couple weeks combined with a 2 week layoff and the pain was gone so I tried a max effort Close Grip Bench Press and later that day the pain was back with a vengeance but only in my right shoulder this time.
Lateral raises are not for the mid-traps. Mid-trap work requires retraction of the shoulder blades and, although you did do some rear delts work, it's not nearly enough to really strengthen the area. As much as I love the conjugate aka Westside method, it is not something that a beginner should attempt and only a year experience stil classifies you as a beginner.

These should start you in the right direction:

 

brendan808

New member
Awards
0
I had the same thing. I went to the doc and it turns out that i was born without my anterior inferior hemoglumeral ligament. Its a condition found in 2% of the population. All you need to do is strengthen the other muscles in the rotator cuff. Simple light weight rotation exercises will help. And start from the bottom and restart on bench. Like restart. And build it up from there. Sometimes you have to take 2 steps back to take 3 steps forward.
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
Lateral raises are not for the mid-traps. Mid-trap work requires retraction of the shoulder blades and, although you did do some rear delts work, it's not nearly enough to really strengthen the area. As much as I love the conjugate aka Westside method, it is not something that a beginner should attempt and only a year experience stil classifies you as a beginner.
I accept that I am very much a beginner but I had stalled in all my lifts using other strength and hypertrophy methods. Westside seems to be working wonders for my Squat and Deadlift but my lower body has always been strong from humping a machinegun in the Corps and ultra-running especially up and down mountains for the last 15 years. However, my upper body has always been weaker and I have a pretty small frame and small muscles in my arms though my back and shoulders are good sized for my frame.

I would like to stick with the conjugate method for my lower body since its working well for me, but what would you suggest for upper body considering I had previously stalled. Over at the Westside forum the main suggestion is to reduce my volume which makes sense. I was wondering if it would also be good to switch from doing 1RM Bench Maxes to 3-5RM Maxes or higher and focus on trying to build more upper body mass to support Benching heavier weights?

For reference here’s where I am right now:

Age 51
Height 5’6”
Weight 177 lbs.
BF% about 14%
Squat 365 lbs., Bench 235 lbs., Deadlift 375 lbs., with Squat and Deadlift steadily increasing and Bench going down even before switching to the conjugate method.

And thanks for the links!

I had the same thing. I went to the doc and it turns out that i was born without my anterior inferior hemoglumeral ligament. Its a condition found in 2% of the population. All you need to do is strengthen the other muscles in the rotator cuff. Simple light weight rotation exercises will help. And start from the bottom and restart on bench. Like restart. And build it up from there. Sometimes you have to take 2 steps back to take 3 steps forward.
Yeah I think you are right. I made the same mistake with my forearm tendonitis that when the pain went away I jumped right back in to Weighted Chin Ups and it came right back. So I did as you are suggesting and took a step back and stuck with lighter Lat Pulls and DB Curls slowly working my way back to BW Chin Ups and things have improved greatly. I think it’s called denial, I just don’t want to admit I’m getting old. ;)

A blanket thanks to everyone who’s responding I really appreciate all the advice and apologize if I’ve missed Repping any of you, I’m sort of new at this.
 
Rodja

Rodja

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Look into Wendler's 5/3/1. I personally like the Periodization Bible as the assistance template.
 
forcefan27

forcefan27

New member
Awards
0
I have had the same issue the past few months. For awhile, I just pushed through it...bad idea. I sucked it up and started to eliminate any movement that caused any pain. Essentially, right now I am only doing incline db presses and weighted dips for chest. Almost anything else would give me issues. I can do shoulder presses no problem, but any type of flat press, machine press or flys caused pain. Today, I tried a few sets of lighter machine flys and the pain was almost absent. Find the lifts that do not cause pain and stick with only those for awhile. After some healing, it is likely you'll be able to incorporate the others pack in...just my 2 cents.
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
I cut back to only the following exercises today.

BB Floor Press 95 x 10, x 10 (20 reps) (2 minute rest)
V-Bar Triceps Press Downs 35 x 30, 40 x 22 (+w) (52 reps) (2 minute rest)
Medium Underhand Grip Cable Rows 70 x 20, 80 x 20 (40 reps) (2 minute rest)
T-Grip BB Curls 30 x 20, x 20 (40 reps) (2 minutes rest)
Standing Twisting Crunches 60 lbs. bands x 30, x 30

The good news is that the pain in my shoulder has been lessening since my last Bench day and Squatting two days ago didn’t seem to aggravate it any. However, since I still feel pain I decided to skip the DE Bench work and do other exercises that minimize shoulder involvement.

Also I did the shoulder and back foam rolling and stretching and YTIs recommended in the videos prior to working out and am icing my shoulder right now.

I’m trying to follow the suggestions of lowering the volume and I also dropped the weight of most of the exercises by half.

Forcefan27 mentioning DB Inclines reminded me that I think I feel less of an issue in my shoulder when I use a neutral grip so I was wondering what people think of using a Swiss Bar?
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
I just got a PM today asking how my shoulder was doing which made me think I should update this thread.

So far it seems to be doing much better. I can still feel there’s an issue but the constant pain is gone and I can even sleep on that side now. Although my right arm is still much weaker than my left for pushing exercises it’s starting to come back as yesterday my close grip bench went up 10 lbs. for the first time in over a month after dropping 30 lbs. So it’s not back to where I was but at least heading in the right direction.

For rehab I’m doing YTIs and stretching. I’m avoiding what seem to be the worst offending exercises like Dips for now. Also I’m limiting my BB bench exercise to one ME and one DE exercise per week. All my other pressing assistance work which I’ve also cut back is DBs allowing for a neutral grip and to account for my right arm still being much weaker than my left so it can catch up.

Thanks to everyone for the advice it really seems to be helping. Now I just have to make sure not to overdo it and to stick with the rehab exercises even though things are feeling better.

Cheers,
Dean
 
BigDSB

BigDSB

New member
Awards
0
Just stumbled on this thread. About two years ago, while I was at my best as far as working out and fitness goes, I started to get a serious pain in my right shoulder. At first I tried to work through it, but after countless sleepless nights, I finally went to the doctor. After the MRI, it turned out I had shoulder bursitus and rotator cuff tendonitus. My doc basically explained to me that is is an "Over-use" condition. Basically, the area in your shoulder that all your nerves and veins run though gets inflammed, and therefore your veins can't move through them smoothly. He gave me 3 choices. Surgery (can't do because I am a hairstylist and without cutting hair, I have no income).. Cortizone (He didn't recommend because my age at the time was 32), and it is really just a band-aid. Third was to run a high dose steroid pack for a week with 2 months of prescription anti-infammitories. Then to decide what was more important. Running around at 235lbs jacked, or giving up on the heavy lifting and realizing I make a living by cutting hair, and not working out. It really hurt so bad I could hardly lift my arm to steer my car, let alone cut hair all damn day.
So basically I gave up lifting, and playing golf, and after time it went away. I also had to train myself to sleep on my back, with arms on my side on top of a pillow. It has been two years, and my shoulder is great, but I feel like a fat POS. So whatever you do, atleast keep working out your back and legs and doing cardio if you can. Because once you give up the gym for a bit, it is a bitch to get back into it, especially knowing you cant do presses!. BTW, Shoulders were ALWAYS my fav bodypart to workout. Anyway,good luck, I can relate to your pain.
 
compudog

compudog

Well-known member
Awards
0
I just got a PM today asking how my shoulder was doing which made me think I should update this thread.

So far it seems to be doing much better. I can still feel there’s an issue but the constant pain is gone and I can even sleep on that side now. Although my right arm is still much weaker than my left for pushing exercises it’s starting to come back as yesterday my close grip bench went up 10 lbs. for the first time in over a month after dropping 30 lbs. So it’s not back to where I was but at least heading in the right direction.

For rehab I’m doing YTIs and stretching. I’m avoiding what seem to be the worst offending exercises like Dips for now. Also I’m limiting my BB bench exercise to one ME and one DE exercise per week. All my other pressing assistance work which I’ve also cut back is DBs allowing for a neutral grip and to account for my right arm still being much weaker than my left so it can catch up.

Thanks to everyone for the advice it really seems to be helping. Now I just have to make sure not to overdo it and to stick with the rehab exercises even though things are feeling better.

Cheers,
Dean
Awesome dude. The YTW's are working for me as well. My lifting partner had the same problem as well, couldn't sleep on that side, he's better now too.

If dips are a problem, you might consider a reduced range of motion when you resume. Personally I never go lower than parallel, it's obvious to me when I see other people going below parallel (which I see a lot, just look on youtube) that the force on the muscles at the shoulder joint is extreme.
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
Just stumbled on this thread. About two years ago, while I was at my best as far as working out and fitness goes, I started to get a serious pain in my right shoulder. At first I tried to work through it, but after countless sleepless nights, I finally went to the doctor. After the MRI, it turned out I had shoulder bursitus and rotator cuff tendonitus. My doc basically explained to me that is is an "Over-use" condition. Basically, the area in your shoulder that all your nerves and veins run though gets inflammed, and therefore your veins can't move through them smoothly. He gave me 3 choices. Surgery (can't do because I am a hairstylist and without cutting hair, I have no income).. Cortizone (He didn't recommend because my age at the time was 32), and it is really just a band-aid. Third was to run a high dose steroid pack for a week with 2 months of prescription anti-infammitories. Then to decide what was more important. Running around at 235lbs jacked, or giving up on the heavy lifting and realizing I make a living by cutting hair, and not working out. It really hurt so bad I could hardly lift my arm to steer my car, let alone cut hair all damn day.
So basically I gave up lifting, and playing golf, and after time it went away. I also had to train myself to sleep on my back, with arms on my side on top of a pillow. It has been two years, and my shoulder is great, but I feel like a fat POS. So whatever you do, atleast keep working out your back and legs and doing cardio if you can. Because once you give up the gym for a bit, it is a bitch to get back into it, especially knowing you cant do presses!. BTW, Shoulders were ALWAYS my fav bodypart to workout. Anyway,good luck, I can relate to your pain.
Thanks for the great info and advice BigD. I haven’t seen a doc but based on my self-diagnosis I have at a minimum bursitis, maybe tendonitis since I know I’m prone to it after getting it in my forearms. I’ve been able to rehab my forearms by doing special exercises and at first eliminating offending exercises (mainly weighted chins and heavy curls) and now slowly re-introducing chins and curls. I’ve relied on rows and deadlifts to keep my back in shape.

I’d never heard about the steroid pack but I did run a 2 week course of NISADs while doing the rehab exercises and eliminating anything that made it feel worse. So far so good, now I just have to take things slow and I hope I can get back into improving.

I know how the sleepless nights feel because for the first couple weeks it hurt so bad I couldn’t sleep even on my back. It literally hurt so bad all the time I wanted to cry and this is coming from a former ultra-runner so I know the meaning of pain.

In a way I’m lucky since my favorite lifts have always been the deadlift and squat and because I’ve always had strong legs and back. Sadly however, my chest and arms have always sucked with my shoulders being my best upper body asset. So I hope I can keep them looking good even if benching heavy isn’t in the cards for me anymore.

The main think I keep learning is that in many ways it really sucks to get old. ;)
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
Awesome dude. The YTW's are working for me as well. My lifting partner had the same problem as well, couldn't sleep on that side, he's better now too.

If dips are a problem, you might consider a reduced range of motion when you resume. Personally I never go lower than parallel, it's obvious to me when I see other people going below parallel (which I see a lot, just look on youtube) that the force on the muscles at the shoulder joint is extreme.
Thanks for the advice on Dips. I actually like them more than doing the Bench Press so I plan to reintroduce them slowly.
 
Gutterpump

Gutterpump

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
Have you had an MRI done? Only way to know for sure what's going on in there. If it is chronic pain or a chronic issue, I would definitely get an MRI.
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
Have you had an MRI done? Only way to know for sure what's going on in there. If it is chronic pain or a chronic issue, I would definitely get an MRI.

No not yet. I’ve given myself until May when my annual physical is due to try and sort it out myself. However, if there is still any pain or weakness by then or if things stop improving I will get checked out.

I actually need to find a new doctor since my present one doesn’t even think I should be lifting and should have stayed with ultra-running even though after the first six months of lifting all my health indicators were the same or had improved.
 
BigDSB

BigDSB

New member
Awards
0
Ok, talking about dips. Those were a big NO NO for me. They really put your shoulder in a bad position, because they are rather behind your neck when you do them. Just like we have heard how bad it is to do behind the neck presses and lay pull-down. It is just an un-natural position for your rotator cuff. Are you doing any R cuff exercises to warm them up. Basically just bending over with a 10 lb weight, and letting your arm hang and doing circles with the weight. Google rotator cuff execises to see them. But if it is inflamed, then some real rest is the absolute best remedy. And yeah, the only way to diagnos is through an MRI.
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
A coworker who’s been competitive bodybuilding for years turned me on to 5-10lb. bent over weight exercise you mention. I’ve also been doing L-Flyes. Also various stretching to improve my shoulder mobility which isn’t terrible but could be much better.

I may have also discovered I’m blaming the wrong exercises for aggravating this after my workout yesterday involving BW chins for the first time in a while which I can feel tweaked it and then reading the article here today about them:

Oops don't have enough posts to include links.
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
Thanks for the link to that article. I get a “you suck” score on the hand behind the back distance and not only got pain on both sides right when breaking parallel with my elbow but on the right side the pain lingered for quite a while after doing it.

I will start doing the phase one exercises next week or maybe even this weekend if my work schedule allows but I doubt it will.
 
grunt03

grunt03

New member
Awards
0
I wanted to update this to let others know what’s been recommend to me seems to be working.

Today I equaled my best Close Grip Bench Press ME lift from a couple months ago. That might not seem like much but considering I lost about 10% off of all my pushing movements and was in so much constant pain I couldn’t sleep I consider getting back to where I was before a significant improvement plus not only is almost all the pain gone (occasionally feel a twinge if I load my shoulder in a bad position) I can not only sleep, but can sleep on my sides again w/o any problems.

I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone for the great advice!

Cheers,
Dean
 

Similar threads


Top