84 years old and wanting Test
- 12-09-2011, 05:04 AM
84 years old and wanting Test
Hi , my dad ( 84 ) and his brother ( 86 ) have asked me about test treatment. I personally am about to start my 8th cycle....but , well I really don't know where to start with these guys.
They were farming up till a few years back, they go to the gym every second day. My dads weight is 95kgs at 5'10 , uncles weight is 80kgs at 5'8.
What do you think? We live in Thailand, so a quick trip to the g.p isn't that straight forward.
- 12-09-2011, 08:11 AM
At that age they really need to go to the doctor and get some advice. Chances are they are also on a myriad of pills as most people are when they get to that age. Adding test into the mix could have serious consequences.
12-09-2011, 08:25 AM
Yeah, I hear you. They are pill free you know, healthy fellas. Will be nice to give them some opinions, other than my own. Thanks for the advice.
12-09-2011, 12:32 PM
If they are in their mid 80s why would they want to start test? A lower dose for general well being?
12-09-2011, 01:19 PM
Properly dosed testosterone can improve mood, erectile function, cholesterol, glucose management, bone density, body compostion, recovery, perfromance and a host of other health benefits.
I would be sure to get their PSA check at the very least. Statistically speaking by that age your prostate could have issues and testosterone can accellerate the elevation of PSA leading to prostate cancer
Life is a terminal condition.
12-09-2011, 02:52 PM
Also estrogen dominance is far more important determinant of prostate cancer and it's growth, although (and this is my point) PSA does go up with more test, but it is quite possible that cancer rate actually goes down for the prostate with extra test. I did much exploring of this a few months ago. I repeat, PSA going up because of extra test is not a cause of cancer. The so called anti-cancer treatments that reduce test are totally ineffective. You get patients with a reduced PSA, but more cancer. Amusing?! If you are Big Pharm harvesting human fears it is amusing.
Just take supplements that reduce the inflammation factors that cause noncancerous prostate growth and you're good.
12-09-2011, 05:13 PM
Tuber, another very good reply. My PSA has ranged from 7 to 10 for 13 years and I have been thru all of the old style and new tests. In every case I came out cancer free. After two years of testing my VA docs and Urologist decided to put me ON test to make sure, among other things, that I didn't get PC. For 8 or 9 years now it has been known that high test levels correlate well with low PC The inverse is also known to be true. I just don't see that being a concern with the OP given the ages involved and the slow progression typical in PC. I question seriously the validity of this post.
12-09-2011, 05:58 PM
You sir on the otherhad have had a decade or more of clinically/medically supervised medical care and have had favorable results. This is not the case for these man who live in Thailand.
I do understand and agree that today we undersatnd that elevated/clinical values of testosterone can actually promote prostate health and that estrogen is more recognized as the culprit.
Life is a terminal condition.
12-09-2011, 09:39 PM
I was due for another blood test this year and my PSA was in the high 5's (5.8+) the year before and I figured my PSA had gotten worse, and then I decided to do this research. I was already taking lots of fish oil. but I added ZMA for the zinc, DIM, and my secret weapon Feverfew at 2 caps a day. This was all 2.5 weeks from blood tests. My PSA came out about 2.96 or a shade below 3. This is well in the normal range. This is what my research told me may happen if I just had BPH. My overall blood test came out extremely well, except my blood showed being very thin, the one bad side-affect of Feverfew. I also began to notice small bruises on my arms and other parts, so I cut the Feverfew down to one cap a day and no problems with bruising since.
If my PSA had come out over 6, my doc would have insisted I go to a urologists for cancer tests.
You notice I don't necessarily recommend Feverfew to others as it is a somewhat dangerous herb, and shouldn't be taken with any other blood thinning meds or strong blood thinning supplements. I need to do some more research into more subtle anti-inflammation supplements. One doesn't need to strong arm PSA like I did.
12-09-2011, 10:16 PM
12-09-2011, 11:42 PM
Where ever did I say it was wrong? Here is what I said:Originally Posted by DutchmanOriginally Posted by Heat MiserAssumption, no? You been around a whole lot longer, multiples of decades, than everyone around here to know what that can lead to.Originally Posted by DutchmanI understand that and agree BUT you, nor do they, have no idea one way or the other. Being armed with knowledge and information trumps ignorance every day IMHO.Originally Posted by DutchmanAgain, with the attitude. Pissed in MY cornflakes? Really? WTF?!, Are you going to threaten me to leave a message board to teach me a lesson?Originally Posted by DutchmanSeriously? A little old for the name calling, no? It's like I'm talking to a 17yo know-it-all-kid.Originally Posted by Dutchman
Everything I posted in regard to caution and awareness are entirely prudent and valid. My father is a prostate cancer survivor. I have an idea.
Everything you posted is valid and likely more clinically accurate. I presented a perspective on the matter correct or not. An open board with an open post that you could have easily addressed and corrected without being an ******* about it.
BTW, who is this directed at?Originally Posted by Dutchman
Life is a terminal condition.
12-10-2011, 12:58 AM
That's great feedback fellas....thanks a packet. Yeah, they were looking at low doses, not for size, but for vitality, skin density etc.
Will get them up for some blood work....So my next question, if everything looks ok for bloods...is what's the next step ? - cycle Test e @ 100mg a week for an 8 weeker, or continued use? This is all new territory. Again, thanks for the help.
12-10-2011, 07:27 AM
My question comes because over time on this and other boards, I have seen kids playing games, pulling our chains whatever to get a reply or a rise out of the guys here. This Over 35 section has been the best such board around, no games, no names, no insults. Just lots of honest and helpful info. Two guys in their mid 80s is a very extreme example. Under no condition would I condone a guy who runs test for training purposes getting involved before a doctor and a blood panel were done. Heck he really didn't give any detailed reasons for wanting test. If someone wants to consider HRT then we have a great forum adjacent to this one with some very informative stickies to bone up on. With that homework and then a doctor's visit they could decide if, what and how.
Having spent too many years fighting with Docs over my PSA, BPH and in my youth Prostatitis, I hold the medical profession in low esteem. With their education, training and professional journals all driven by the Big Pharma/Med industries, they are ill equipped to do their best. I have watched too many friends die from cancer, too many have unnecessary PC operations, radiation and chemo all for the good of the Oncology bank accounts and not for the good of the guys needing help. Now at last there are strong voices debunking the PSA test god and advising often a course of benign neglect. Still at the age of 84/86 the likelyhood of existing PC is so strong that using HRT would probably not be a safe solution to their needs. To summarize my rambling I question the whole premise of guys that age looking for HRT, if they are in fact real. I question advising them to use HRT as valid. I question anything at that age which doesn't start with some base testing to determine what is wrong and what are the best options for such a case.
I found your comments and attempt to turn around what I said and believe in, then and again now, insulting and got the immediate feeling that I was dealing with some young kid. I had never had that experience on this board.
12-10-2011, 08:38 AM
don't start nothing with them bc on cycel cholesterol goes too high and lever is under the risk so better not do that
12-10-2011, 08:39 AM
Ha, thanks Dutch...maybe I should be feeling insulted. No, I'm no kid ....late thirties. But, thanks for the giggle.....and the advice.
12-10-2011, 08:46 AM
But thanks fellas. Yeah the boys are very active, old football captain,ex soldier and all that. They just want it for vitality, skin thickness etc. , not for mass So will get them tested, but by the sounds of the replies, maybe that's futile? Anyway, any more thoughts?
12-10-2011, 08:58 AM
let them start hgh for 12 weeks that's only things can pull them skinOriginally Posted by Oceansize
12-10-2011, 01:48 PM
12-10-2011, 09:46 PM
12-10-2011, 11:00 PM
12-12-2011, 06:03 PM
I agree with you Dutchman. I believe that the cancer industry is too big to allow for a cure. Think what our economy would be like if they found a cure for cancer tomorrow. Thousands of oncologists out of work. Entire wings of hospitals shut down. Thousands cancer researchers out of work and hundreds of research labs closed. Big Pharma stocks falling through the floor. Not to mention the problems with social security with the elderly living longer. Not just here in America but worldwide. What they are looking for is a way to control the disease. That way they can keep you on medication and in touch with your doctors for the rest of your life. The cancer cure rates have been increasing for years. I watched my sister go through the same treatments and subsequent failure that my grandmother went through in the 1950ís with the same results. I lost my sister at 52. Cancer is big business. If the NCI really cared why donít they publish more information on preventative medicine? They proved conclusively that elevated E2 levels are responsible for most hormonal cancers. It can easily be controlled via I3C. Why this information isnít made available by the NCI?
12-12-2011, 06:33 PM
If they are that old ... and that healthy ... and they hit the gym every other day ...
Why do they need test?
If ain't broke don't fix it - they are better off right now than 99% of the men in their age range.
12-12-2011, 08:06 PM
12-12-2011, 08:19 PM
Although the "harvesting" of cancer patients is big money, the harvesting of diabetics and people with blood sugar problems makes the cancer industry look puny by comparison. That's where the real money is at right now, and even greater misinformation.
12-12-2011, 08:47 PM
By the way - I have to say that Dutchman was spot on in his analysis of this.
12-12-2011, 09:07 PM
12-13-2011, 01:23 PM
"Although the "harvesting" of cancer patients is big money, the harvesting of diabetics and people with blood sugar problems makes the cancer industry look puny by comparison. That's where the real money is at right now, and even greater misinformation."
Agreed, they have diabetics, parkinson patients and others right were they want them, on medication the rest of their lives.
12-25-2011, 11:24 PM
As well as people being diagnosed with mental health problems, such as ADD/ADHD, depression, anxiety, bi-polar, or any other acronym I have heard from my wifes therapist...like NTD, negative thought disorder, WTF??? Yes, this person really said something like that, I may be missing one letter/word.Originally Posted by BBB
Watch the movie "Forks Over Knives", the western civilization diet is what is contributing to disease, cancer, diabetes, obesity, and yes the people are being put on medication at an alarming rate! Change the way you eat and you (and only you) can change your health the most SIMPLEST way that pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know, it is very sad because truly it really boils down greed.
12-29-2011, 11:14 AM
This is a great thread and some excellent advice, Dutch, sounds like you have really figured it out. My two cents, they are in their 80's and sound to be pretty healthy. Replacement dose could do wonders for them. I am sure they are not looking to become bodybuilders but the the benefits of improved mood, bone density, mental function, libido, and not to forget the prevention of muscle loss.
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